View Full Version : Why a DL-103?
walpurgis
16-10-2012, 23:14
What is this thing with Denon DL-103 MC cartridges?
They seem to have developed a sort of mystique recently.
Now while I'm fond of the old things, I don't see them as delivering anything particularly spectacular in the way of audio performance. I've had a couple of the basic 103's and a 103R (which is much superior), each used in good arms, but there are better sounds around. I won't name names as this will develop into a 'who's is best' contest.
would anybody care to comment?
What is this thing with Denon DL-103 MC cartridges?
They seem to have developed a sort of mystique recently.
Now while I'm fond of the old things, I don't see them as delivering anything particularly spectacular in the way of audio performance. I've had a couple of the basic 103's and a 103R (which is much superior), each used in good arms, but there are better sounds around. I won't name names as this will develop into a 'who's is best' contest.
would anybody care to comment?
Agreed, the standard 103 is not that flash, I owned a 103D which was probably the finest 103 ever made & while it was pleasent sounding, tracked better & extracted more detail, it was still not the most dynamic performer.
In the 103s' favour are history & consistancy ie you know in advance what to expect.
daytona600
17-10-2012, 02:59
they do sound better if you add a nice SUT step up transformer
walpurgis
17-10-2012, 09:52
they do sound better if you add a nice SUT step up transformer
Though mine were always been used with decent SUTs, Fidelity Research, Osawa and Art Audio and on good systems. I've still not been overwhelmed by the 103s abilities, its nice enough at the price, but any old Decca would run circles round it.
I've compared the basic 103 to: various old Deccas, my very old and cheap Ortofon SPU, Fidelity Reseach MC301, Transfiguration Aria, Technics EPC-305MC and ZYX R50 Bloom. There was no contest, the Denon did not come close, the Technics and ZYX in particular being hugely superior, even to the 103R.
I know we're talking about a bigger outlay, but the point is that the DL-103 is very limited, not matter what fancy tip or body you care to customise it with.
The money can be better spent elsewhere.
I have just broke my Denon DL103 virginity, as l got a new one for a good price and to be honest curiosity got the better of me, well to cut to the chase l was taken aback by how good this sounds whether l have hit on synergy but the biggest thing is the musicality- forget hifi and all the words to describe sound as with this cart you (by that l mean me) but you you are immersed in music, just another album, then another, l can understand people wanting hifi sounding equipment but for me this cart was ear opener, suprised it took me this long to find it!:doh:
All opinions are expressed, are based on listening in my room, my system and my musical taste:)
chris@panteg
17-10-2012, 11:11
I have just broke my Denon DL103 virginity, as l got a new one for a good price and to be honest curiosity got the better of me, well to cut to the chase l was taken aback by how good this sounds whether l have hit on synergy but the biggest thing is the musicality- forget hifi and all the words to describe sound as with this cart you (by that l mean me) but you you are immersed in music, just another album, then another, l can understand people wanting hifi sounding equipment but for me this cart was ear opener, suprised it took me this long to find it!:doh:
All opinions are expressed, are based on listening in my room, my system and my musical taste:)
Andy , this is with the stock Technics arm ? No rewiring or any other add ons ? And into a 640p .
You hit on it earlier for the PRICE the 103 is a great sounding cartridge, yes you can spend more money & get something that sounds better but that's always the case.
So far I have had a basic 103 bought for £50 secondhand which was then put into a MIDAS body which gave a huge leap in sound quality.
I then picked up a nuded 103R that has had an expert stylus partrace fitted which sounds even better to my ears but for £150 so I don't know where I would get this sort of performance for similar amounts of money from any other cartridge.
The good thing about the 103 is even brand new they are very good for the price, but rather like Golf GTI's as there were loads made there are always bargains to be found 2nd hand and factoring in a retip you can have a great sound for what in HiFi terms is very little money.
The 103 is DIY paradise, cheap and hours can be spent getting it to work,,,,whats not to like! :D
The DL103 (spherical tip) has better bass and a tidier top end than the Decca.
It is probably more tonally faithfull than the Decca - but Decca´s midrange is excellent, and nothing has a transient attack, or speed to match that of the Decca.
Andy , this is with the stock Technics arm ? No rewiring or any other add ons ? And into a 640p .
Exactly;)
Andy , this is with the stock Technics arm ? No rewiring or any other add ons ? And into a 640p .
Hi Chris, yup, stock arm with a Sumiko headshell, tried in CA 640P MM with Ortofon T5s plugged in ( very nice), then tried it in the MC stage this also sounded really really good much to my suprise and plenty of gain too! If you prefer to music to Hifi then l would say give it a go:).
chris@panteg
18-10-2012, 09:17
Hi Chris, yup, stock arm with a Sumiko headshell, tried in CA 640P MM with Ortofon T5s plugged in ( very nice), then tried it in the MC stage this also sounded really really good much to my suprise and plenty of gain too! If you prefer to music to Hifi then l would say give it a go:).
I already have Andy , it didn't quite work for me ? I tried a 103R in a heavy aluminum body , I barely managed to balance it in my 309 , I thought it was pretty good at 1st , but the more I listened , I noticed a strident harshness to some recordings , but I did like the big an bold presentation , I thought it maybe a mismatch ? Much happier with an AT33EV in my 309 :)
walpurgis
18-10-2012, 09:19
The 103 is DIY paradise, cheap and hours can be spent getting it to work,,,,whats not to like! :D
Nothing at the price for a standard one.
But when you start buying retips and wood or metal bodies, the money spent can produce better results elswehere.
I like the DL-103, but its not the final answer, no matter what you do with it.
I also like the Cambridge 640P, which I have owned. Its bargain! But, has limitations, although nothing at it's price could beat it. It does nothing wrong, its failings are just of omission, slight lack of openness and detail basically.
The slightly dearer Bellari VP-129 is a big improvement, the EAR 834P wipes the floor with it and the Graham Slee ERA V Gold is even better. All cost more, I know. Worth saving up for though.
And, I'd suggest looking for something better than the T5s, they are the weak link in your chain.
I already have Andy , it didn't quite work for me ? I tried a 103R in a heavy aluminum body , I barely managed to balance it in my 309 , I thought it was pretty good at 1st , but the more I listened , I noticed a strident harshness to some recordings , but I did like the big an bold presentation , I thought it maybe a mismatch ? Much happier with an AT33EV in my 309 :)
Chris, the Denon in my system is so smooth, warm and lush and the tonal colours are amazing, l do feel that the Techie with a warm cart Stanton/ DL103? Does have great synergy, l hope to do a big upgrade to my analogue side of my system, but l have found a sound l really like in a my system, so l will be wanting basically the same sound just more of it, l also found that too much weight on the headshell/ counterweight killed the sound of the DL103,making it bright and unmusical, so l mucked around a bit with this and now sings like a bird. l have learned a lot on this forum, regarding the Techy, Mark Grant cables, l really should have jumped in on the Denon after people championed it on the forum:doh: But now am glad l did.:)
chris@panteg
18-10-2012, 10:15
Chris, the Denon in my system is so smooth, warm and lush and the tonal colours are amazing, l do feel that the Techie with a warm cart Stanton/ DL103? Does have great synergy, l hope to do a big upgrade to my analogue side of my system, but l have found a sound l really like in a my system, so l will be wanting basically the same sound just more of it, l also found that too much weight on the headshell/ counterweight killed the sound of the DL103,making it bright and unmusical, so l mucked around a bit with this and now sings like a bird. l have learned a lot on this forum, regarding the Techy, Mark Grant cables, l really should have jumped in on the Denon after people championed it on the forum:doh: But now am glad l did.:)
Well its hitting the spot and that's what counts :) My one regret is not trying a 103 when I had the techie arm ,you have to try these things for yourself .
How did you get along with the Denon in the SME 309 Chris, just out of interest?:)
chris@panteg
18-10-2012, 10:25
How did you get along with the Denon in the SME 309 Chris, just out of interest?:)
It sounded quite harsh and sometmes very bright ,like a bag of nails ? Some old recordings from the 60's and early 70's sounded very nice though :scratch:
I think I would have got better results from a stock 103R in its original body .
It sounded quite harsh and sometmes very bright ,like a bag of nails ? Some old recordings from the 60's and early 70's sounded very nice though :scratch:
I think I would have got better results from a stock 103R in its original body .
Oh dear, was thinking of trying a Denon in an SME V on me second Techy.:(
chris@panteg
18-10-2012, 11:17
Oh dear, was thinking of trying a Denon in an SME V on me second Techy.:(
Try it , it should actually work so I'm led to believe ,don't let my experience put you off !
Nothing at the price for a standard one.
But when you start buying retips and wood or metal bodies, the money spent can produce better results elswehere.
I like the DL-103, but its not the final answer, no matter what you do with it.
I also like the Cambridge 640P, which I have owned. Its bargain! But, has limitations, although nothing at it's price could beat it. It does nothing wrong, its failings are just of omission, slight lack of openness and detail basically.
The slightly dearer Bellari VP-129 is a big improvement, the EAR 834P wipes the floor with it and the Graham Slee ERA V Gold is even better. All cost more, I know. Worth saving up for though.
And, I'd suggest looking for something better than the T5s, they are the weak link in your chain.
Am happy at the moment, not looking to upgrade for a while, got burned a long while ago regarding megabucks analogue front end.
The 103 and 309 are a mismatch.
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Nothing at the price for a standard one.
But when you start buying retips and wood or metal bodies, the money spent can produce better results elswehere.
I like the DL-103, but its not the final answer, no matter what you do with it.
A retip is going to far, I agree, however a wood re-body fro Uwe is well worth the cost and the sound improvement on a 103 R is well justified IME.
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The 103 and 309 are a mismatch.
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103 and SME V?
A retip is going to far, I agree, however a wood re-body fro Uwe is well worth the cost and the sound improvement on a 103 R is well justified IME.
You will find many users with actual experience who will disagree with that, including me.
I've used 103R's for the past 5 years in various iterations. Among those: stock stylus in Uwe ebony and clavellin bodies, Soundsmith midline ($250) retip in ebony and aluminum bodies, etc.
My current cartridge is a 103R in an aluminum body, potted and retipped by Soundsmith with the $250 line contact stylus and ruby cantilever. The potting/retip brings as much to the table as a good quality body change and radically improves the performance of the cartridge.
I prefer the ebony and aluminum retipped versions of the 103R to other cartridges I've used which include the Ortofon MC 20 Super and Koetsu Black and other users have found retipped and rebodied 103R's to compare favourably with much more exotic cartridges than those.
You do need a compatible arm (about 20 grams of effective mass) and a very high quality phono stage and table to make it worthwhile with the retipped/rebodied versions.
Well maybe but I'd rather put the extra cash into a better cartridge at that point.
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Wakefield Turntables
18-10-2012, 19:05
i've read this thread with quite some interest. I did intend buying a 103R for my SME 3012 but instead went for the Koetsu black. Its quite interesting reading about all its reincarnations. I may still get one just for fun if I can find a decent cost second hand example.
walpurgis
19-10-2012, 09:18
i've read this thread with quite some interest. I did intend buying a 103R for my SME 3012 but instead went for the Koetsu black. Its quite interesting reading about all its reincarnations. I may still get one just for fun if I can find a decent cost second hand example.
A second hand DL-103R in good order would be a far better buy than a new basic 103. There's a huge difference in their abilities.
But, for a few quid more, something from Dynavector, Benz Micro or Zyx for instance, might be more rewarding.
It's a different type of sound though, Geoff: defo more different than overall better, IME.
Cartridges such as the DL-103, EMT TSD-15, Shure M3D, Deccas, SPUs, and a few others I could mention, have all achieved 'cult status' for very good reason, and that is, if you like their unique way of music-making, then nothing else will do!
There are very few modern cartridges I could live with as, by and large, I find their presentation rather 'a-musical' and overly 'hi-fi', which is the complete opposite I've found with using the vintage cartridges listed above. The most important thing to remember in audio is that all you can ever do is choose your compromises.
There's a wee message in there somewhere... ;)
Marco.
walpurgis
19-10-2012, 20:00
It's a different type of sound though, Geoff: defo more different than overall better, IME.
Cartridges such as the DL-103, EMT TSD-15, Shure M3D, Deccas, SPUs, and a few others I could mention, have all achieved 'cult status' for very good reason, and that is, if you like their unique way of music-making, then nothing else will do!
There are very few modern cartridges I could live with as, by and large, I find their presentation rather 'a-musical' and overly 'hi-fi', which is the complete opposite I've found with using the vintage cartridges listed above. The most important thing to remember in audio is that all you can ever do is choose your compromises.
There's a wee message in there somewhere... ;)
Marco.
Marco,
I've owned all the above apart from the EMT and as you suggest, they each have their own way of presenting things.
That's why I've been banging on about ZYX MC's, they are very singular in their presentation. I find them superb, the R50 Bloom in particular is a ridiculously cheap bargain in terms of ability. Nothing Hi-Fi about that one, just musicality. I put it's character as somewhere between SPU and Koetsu Black, but with possibly even more depth and space!
Geoff.
Hi Geoff,
The only ZYX I've heard is the Airy, which I can't say I was overly impressed with, but the Bloom could be a different matter, so I'll take your word on it :)
At the moment, I'm just waiting on delivery of a brand new SPU Royal GM MKII, which I'm hoping will be the last cartridge I'll ever need!
Marco.
walpurgis
19-10-2012, 20:46
Should be lovely. Lucky chap.
It'll be interesting to hear how you find it sounds in your system.
Churz, dude. Should be similar to my previous Classic GM E - only better! :)
The key will be moving from using a nude elliptical stylus, and a frequency response of 20-25,000 Hz, to a nude Ortofon Replicant 100 stylus, and a frequency response of 20-60,000 Hz.
Reckon I'll notice the difference? ;)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
19-10-2012, 21:19
Maybe, but definately if you happen to be a flying mammal :eyebrows:
I have heard of guana batz, I guess we are going to get marco batz :rfl:
You might think about a set of supertweeters to take advantage of the wider frequency response, otherwise those bat ears of yours might not hear things quite so clearly :ner:
Hope you have fun with the new SPU Marco!
:lolsign:
Aye, but we know that super-tweeters work, even though we can't 'hear' them! ;)
Yours,
Batman.
Reid Malenfant
19-10-2012, 21:34
Yes, agreed, they do certainly add something :) You are more likely to notice that something listening to an analogue source, rather than a brick wall filtered CD player.
Dave K certainly noticed a difference with supertweeters installed once I sorted out the components to use as a 16KHz crossover & L-pad to match the levels with his speakers :)
walpurgis
19-10-2012, 22:23
Undoubtedly, you'll hear differences between the two cartridges.
As for 'supertweeters', their output may not be audible in the normal sense, but properly implemented, their output is certainly perceived when in circuit and their disconnection also has a very noticeable audible effect on the overall sound.
Assuming records with a bandwidth extending up to 60kHz are available then you'd at least be able to measure output with the right S/T.
jandl100
20-10-2012, 07:30
I've had a few cartridges over the years - I used to stick with ruby/diamond cantilevered Dynavectors as a rule, always coming back to their transparent and fast type of sound as suiting my own preferences.
Then I chanced upon a standard Denon 103. Luckily, I had by then already started my current infatuation with Japanese tt's "of a certain age" -- and with the medium/high mass and somewhat lossy nature of the tonearms those Jap decks have, it was a marriage made in heaven.
Forget SME and Rega and similar tight tolerance arms - they don't work at all well with the 103, ime and from what I have heard from other folks. I think that may well be one of the main reasons some folks don't "get" the Denon 103 sound.
Anyhoo, I went on to a couple of re-bodied 103's. My current 103 dream machine is a Zu-modded one, with an elliptical tip. OK, so my tt is far from the upper reaches found around here, but it sounds bloody good with that Zu 103! I've not felt the desire to change it at all ... which is a bit of a change for me! :eyebrows:
And it's pretty! --
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/Zu1031.jpg
chris@panteg
20-10-2012, 08:23
I've had a few cartridges over the years - I used to stick with ruby/diamond cantilevered Dynavectors as a rule, always coming back to their transparent and fast type of sound as suiting my own preferences.
Then I chanced upon a standard Denon 103. Luckily, I had by then already started my current infatuation with Japanese tt's "of a certain age" -- and with the medium/high mass and somewhat lossy nature of the tonearms those Jap decks have, it was a marriage made in heaven.
Forget SME and Rega and similar tight tolerance arms - they don't work at all well with the 103, ime and from what I have heard from other folks. I think that may well be one of the main reasons some folks don't "get" the Denon 103 sound.
Anyhoo, I went on to a couple of re-bodied 103's. My current 103 dream machine is a Zu-modded one, with an elliptical tip. OK, so my tt is far from the upper reaches found around here, but it sounds bloody good with that Zu 103! I've not felt the desire to change it at all ... which is a bit of a change for me! :eyebrows:
And it's pretty! --
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/Zu1031.jpg
Hi Jerry , actually I think I do get the 103 sound , for a very brief time I though this is the one for me , but the 309 was getting in the way lol , can I ask what settings you're using with Dino ?
jandl100
20-10-2012, 08:30
100 ohms, 100 pFarads, 'mc low' sensitivity. I don't find the sound presentation to be very sensitive to the settings.
The SME309 wouldn't be a good match at all, imo. I think you'd miss a lot of the musical energy and pizzaz that the 103 can dish out.
chris@panteg
20-10-2012, 08:39
100 ohms, 100 pFarads, 'mc low' sensitivity. I don't find the sound presentation to be very sensitive to the settings.
The SME309 wouldn't be a good match at all, imo. I think you'd miss a lot of the musical energy and pizzaz that the 103 can dish out.
Yes I know , I did hear some of it , that big wide open expressive mid + a nice visceral punch in the bass .
Yes I know , I did hear some of it , that big wide open expressive mid + a nice visceral punch in the bass .
Any other thoughts on the 309/103 combo Chris?
chris@panteg
20-10-2012, 09:51
Any other thoughts on the 309/103 combo Chris?
I think it was a mismatch but would like to hear a standard 103R in the 309 or V .
It was just the tendency towards harshness that was the problem , unpleasant .
chris@panteg
20-10-2012, 10:10
Andy , you've got to try it m8 ! I sense you're itching to find out , do it .
jandl100
20-10-2012, 10:39
Errr, why bother? It's not a good match, technically or sonically. :scratch: No way should a 103 should sound harsh & unpleasant.
Andy , you've got to try it m8 ! I sense you're itching to find out , do it .
Really need to get my bottom in gear Chris- l will get round to it, at the moment cannot stop playing bloody records, the dog is climbing the walls to go and then there is some stuff around the house to do............. it can wait;)
chris@panteg
20-10-2012, 11:58
Really need to get my bottom in gear Chris- l will get round to it, at the moment cannot stop playing bloody records, the dog is climbing the walls to go and then there is some stuff around the house to do............. it can wait;)
In that case Andy , leave it in the Techie arm and just play music :)
In that case Andy , leave it in the Techie arm and just play music :)
Yeah true, but l do have another SL1200 and an SME V sitting there looking at me.............................and l am an Audiophile............... having said that l as happy as a pig in dodo, decisions, decisions.:band:
You might hate the 103, when fitted on an SME V - be warned! ;)
Marco.
You might hate the 103, when fitted on an SME V - be warned! ;)
Marco.
Yes true, l am going to do some swotting up on the subject before l jump in, although l have heard of a few peeps using the combo.
The 309 and V don't have enough mass for the 103 plus they are a little too 'rigid' for it IME
Yup, that also mirrors my own experience :)
It'll be interesting though what Andy thinks if he tries it, and be a difficult one to judge, as how do you separate the sonic effect gained from fitting an (overall) much better tonearm to a turntable, from that created by a potential cartridge/tonearm mismatch?
Marco.
walpurgis
20-10-2012, 17:08
Errr, why bother? It's not a good match, technically or sonically. :scratch: No way should a 103 should sound harsh & unpleasant.
I agree, having owned a couple of 103's and a 103R used in a Mission 774 arm with light fluid damping, mounted on a hefty DD turntable, I've never noticed a tendency towards harshness.
If any is noticed, the cause is not the cartridge, more likely an arm/headshell problem or maybe even inferior cabling. Could even be incorrect tracking force, the 103s prefer to be used on the heavy side of playing weights, 2 to 2.5 grams, even 3 grams won't hurt with a conical stylus as long as the cantilever doesn't sink on it's suspension. Also try playing with the VTA, although again, this is less critical with a conical tip.
Yup, that also mirrors my own experience :)
It'll be interesting though what Andy thinks if he tries it, and be a difficult one to judge, as how do you separate the sonic effect gained from fitting an (overall) much better tonearm to a turntable, from that created by a potential cartridge/tonearm mismatch?
Marco.
Do not fear if l do the evil deed then you boys will be the first to know.
jandl100
21-10-2012, 07:16
Oh -- I'm not gonna make myself popular with Andy ---- but, ffs, git yorself a decent phonostage! :doh: -- you have barely begun to hear the capability of your otherwise very fine tt system. As Marco would say .... :trust:
OK - OK - you don't have to drag me off, I'll go quietly ..... :eyebrows:
Oh -- I'm not gonna make myself popular with Andy ---- but, ffs, git yorself a decent phonostage! :doh: -- you have barely begun to hear the capability of your otherwise very fine tt system. As Marco would say .... :trust:
OK - OK - you don't have to drag me off, I'll go quietly ..... :eyebrows:
Lol it is ok Jerry- but the sound l am getting now is quite remarkable for the money it has set me back and believe me l have had a megabucks vinyl front end and l would take my VFM killer rig l have now and l like the CA 640P:sofa::ner:
Oops nearly forgot l am in no rush to upgrade anything- l am having too much fun:cool:
walpurgis
04-11-2012, 12:46
I've used the 640P phono stage, amongst very many others and as far as cheap stages go the Cambridge is pretty good. It does not have the last degree of resolution, but it does nothing wrong and sounds pleasantly musical with no harshness.
Interesting thread, I used the DL-103 for a long time & ended up nuding it and mounting it to a brass plate with Araldite, which was a huge upgrade. The plastic case does this cartridge no justice IMO.
You do not want to be using arms like Regas, new SMEs & anything low mass as the DL103's extremely low compliance means that a tremendous amount of energy is transmitted into the pickup arm.
The SME 3009 (*non improved*) or indeed 3012 offer an amazing synergy as they will do a good job of dampening the cartridge's energy whilst "tighter" low mass arms will struggle. Some people even prefer to loosen up the headshell to arm connection when using a DL103. The standard techie arm, rewired, will do a good job also. Jelco 750 and most S-shaped arms on old DD turntables a good match too...
walpurgis
04-11-2012, 13:12
I've used DL-103s, Deccas and a large variety of decent MCs (and a couple of grotty ones) in my slightly modded Mission 774 with a degree of fluid damping and had very good results. this arm also works well with high compliance cartridges, such as my ADCs. The 774 currently has a ZYX R100 mounted in it, that works fine too.
tannoyman
04-11-2012, 20:26
i've read this thread with quite some interest. I did intend buying a 103R for my SME 3012 but instead went for the Koetsu black. Its quite interesting reading about all its reincarnations. I may still get one just for fun if I can find a decent cost second hand example.
I use the Denon DL304 in an SME V with SME 20/3 and I love it. It has a few advantages over most MC's. Firstly it tracks securely at 1.2g which means that it is kind to records and to its own cantilever. It also sounds superb. I am sure that there are better things out there (for a price) but it more than holds its own in a high end system. The real downside for me is that the aluminium body is not tapped, so grizzly little nuts have to be used to secure it to the headshell which is not clever and for me with fingers like a hand of bananas it's a real pain. The real benefit is that it costs less than £400 which for a good MC is excellent value (thought not cheap)
David :):)
RobbieGong
04-11-2012, 20:40
Yes- Have heard good things about the DL 304 and was tempted before going for the mm 2M Black instead (Havn't yet heard a 304). How would you describe the sound of the 304 ?
walpurgis
04-11-2012, 21:05
I had a DL-304 (and a DL-301) for a while, its quite a refined sound, but it does not have the dynamics of the DL-103. Also, the output is fairly low, you'd find your volume control up a bit higher than usual. I did not keep mine very long, it wasn't a patch on the Technics EPC-305MC I kept as my 'reference' cartridge at the time. My old Ortofon SPU and Fidelity Research MC301 were considerably better too. The ZYX R50 Bloom at just under £500 easily beats all of them though, I've compared them.
RobbieGong
04-11-2012, 21:24
I had a DL-304 (and a DL-301) for a while, its quite a refined sound, but it does not have the dynamics of the DL-103. Also, the output is fairly low, you'd find your volume control up a bit higher than usual. I did not keep mine very long, it wasn't a patch on the Technics EPC-305MC I kept as my 'reference' cartridge at the time. My old Ortofon SPU and Fidelity Research MC301 were considerably better too. The ZYX R50 Bloom at just under £500 easily beats all of them though, I've compared them.
Nice one Geoff and very interesting (Keep hearing about this ZYX Bloom :))
Yes- Have heard good things about the DL 304 and was tempted before going for the mm 2M Black instead (Havn't yet heard a 304). How would you describe the sound of the 304 ?
My mate has DL304 and he raves about it, l have heard it in his system and it sounds superb, in a Notts Analogue Mentor/ lncognito RB300/ EAR834P phono stage, really sweet, musical sound.
I was given an old 103 that was basically worn out, I bought an aluminium body for it and sent the whole kit and kaboodle off to Soundsmith for their $250 midrange retip with ruby cantilever. To counter the extra weight I loaded the counterweight up with blutac and got a custom weight made up by Audio Origami, plus a 5.2 gramme headshell weight just in case.
Improvement over the original (I have a brand new 103 too) are huge, more detail and even the space between tracks is quieter.
Best cart I own, although a friend has lent me a Sumiko Blue Point Special with the same retip, and that is shaping up to be better still, only time will tell as it only has around 25 hours playing time under it's belt.
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