View Full Version : Shielded mains cable or unshielded
Been reading arguments about both and my heads spinning. Ive had good results with mains products in the past and so im a believer but i play a all in one box these days, DAC pre and power amp wonder if it would make a difference in choice with such a set up.
Of all 'upgrades' in HiFi power cables are the last things you need to worry about IMO. I use these for £15 or so a pop: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/british-bespoke-cables?_trksid=p2047675.l2563.
Be it the standard supplied, unshielded, cables or the above 'over-engineered' examples am sure someone will come along to tell me these things make anything like a 'significant' or 'huge' difference. :D
As you can tell from my sig I am a cable believer, but unbalanced interconnects & speaker cable make a much larger difference, and even then the differences are very subtle compared to component upgrades, speaker positioning, component stands etc...
Well - they do make a difference.
Sent from my HTC using Board Express
Well - they do make a difference.
Sent from my HTC using Board Express
Everything makes a difference...
May I add though, Martin, that your system is very much at the point where serious upgrades to power cables can be justified in the context of your 'ultra-fi' system.
May I add though, Martin, that your system is very much at the point where serious upgrades to power cables can be justified in the context of your 'ultra-fi' system.
Are you saying mine is shit!
No seriously i just want to put a modest diy one together and wondered if their should be a preference.
By the way i live under crystal palace antenna and dozens of phone masts so ive always wondered if thats why i had some good results in the past.
Of all 'upgrades' in HiFi power cables are the last things you need to worry about IMO. I use these for £15 or so a pop: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/british-bespoke-cables?_trksid=p2047675.l2563.
Be it the standard supplied, unshielded, cables or the above 'over-engineered' examples am sure someone will come along to tell me these things make anything like a 'significant' or 'huge' difference. :D
As you can tell from my sig I am a cable believer, but unbalanced interconnects & speaker cable make a much larger difference, and even then the differences are very subtle compared to component upgrades, speaker positioning, component stands etc...
They can make a significant difference. Based on what you say try a shielded one first.
Colin - I thinkg that shielded mains cables work best. In view of your location, I would say they are a must. Not all RFI will be obviously audible, but it will have a negative effect on the proper operation of your components.
Neil - yes I appreciate I have a system that responds well to even small changes, but it wasn't always so. However, I have spent a reasonable proportion of my system cost on power cables ever since the early days and it has always paid off. I would say that power cables are as important as interconnects and speaker cables if you want your investment to perform well.
realysm42
17-10-2012, 07:30
How do you define 'ultra-fi'.
This should help explain things to a degree..... (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/sitefiles/15/2/2/152201/The%20Mains%20Supply%202010.pdf)
As for that ebay seller, it always amazes me why people buy from dubious sources, not registered as a business on ebay, probably no business insurance or liability of any kind, certainly won't be paying corporation tax and maybe not even registered as a true business. Item location...carbon city, united kingdom, all feedbacks anonymous!
Try this Colin, (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/mains-cables-/529-mcru-diy-mains-lead-set.html) I think you will be happy.
This should help explain things to a degree..... (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/sitefiles/15/2/2/152201/The%20Mains%20Supply%202010.pdf)
.
Your article is wrong, the tolerance for the UK is still at +10% / -6% @230v (BS 7671). The 2008 and then 2010 proposal of +/- 10% has not go through.
freefallrob
17-10-2012, 08:48
I use Supra Lorad 1.5 or have used 2.5 in the past with big amps.
How do you define 'ultra-fi'.
It's when the fi is ultra, which is a better than 'baad', but not quite into the realms of 'mega' - simples, innit?
Martin's audio nirvana, however, will be reached when his system attains the status of 'bootylicious'.
Marco.
Martin's audio nirvana, however, will be reached when his system attains the status of 'bootylicious'.
I've got the 'booty' part sorted. Oh, you didn't mean that...?
It's booty, dahling, not botty! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Here is my take on the subject - rightly or wrongly, I don't care to be honest.
In my view for RFI to enter a mains cable it has to be almost at a strength where the fillings in your teeth are getting pretty hot and your brain is almost at boiling point. As for RFI getting out of mains cable, then whether the shield is made from copper or steel is of no matter because neither are any good at blocking radiation as a wave around with an RFI sniffer along it's length will tell you. Steel cases around transformers are ineffective too, much to my surprise and a Mu-metal plate had only a limited effect.
Rather than fuss about screening, the most important factor to me for a mains cable is the CSA of the wire and/or metallurgy of that wire to provide the least amount of resistance possible to current flow. It is the TOTAL loop resistance of the wire, plugs and fuses within the mains circuit from the local substation to the component that determines a cable's effectiveness. If it is the weakest link in that circuit the sound suffers and an "upgrade" cable, fuse, connectors, wall socket or mains spur is only taking out those weak links in the total circuit. You are not "adding" anything wonderful at all, you are taking out the problem parts.
sq225917
17-10-2012, 10:32
There's a simple test that you can do to prove that you are sane/insane.
Think about it first.
Plug a length of unshielded wire into your phonostage. If you can't hear 'radio whatever' playing through that, and that is likely amplified 500-1500 times by the phonostage, pre and power amps, then what chance is there of the same level of airborne RFI being able to pass through your mains lead into your gear when most power supplies will typically have at least 80db of power supply noise rejection.
Basically if the most RFI sensitive device in your house isn't affected, nothing else 'should' be.
If it is affected, then it might be worthwhile.
Mike - H
17-10-2012, 10:38
I recently bought a 3.5mt 6 x mains block, plus a mains lead for my TT from Dave at MCRU. Now I don't claim it made a huge difference in SQ, but I will say this. I want the mains kit in my house to be safe and well made, from good quality parts, by people who know what they're doing. I couldn't buy the parts for what I paid and I know that it's right.
I look at the picture of some peoples wiring and I shudder, they are accidents just waiting to happen. A post on another forum also brought up the question of insurance, does your kit meet all the regs and rules? You know what insurance companies are like, you might have a chip pan fire in the kitchen, but if the kit in your listening space isn't what it should be, they will leave you up a certain creek without a paddle.
This should help explain things to a degree..... (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/sitefiles/15/2/2/152201/The%20Mains%20Supply%202010.pdf)
As for that ebay seller, it always amazes me why people buy from dubious sources, not registered as a business on ebay, probably no business insurance or liability of any kind, certainly won't be paying corporation tax and maybe not even registered as a true business. Item location...carbon city, united kingdom, all feedbacks anonymous!
Try this Colin, (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/mains-cables-/529-mcru-diy-mains-lead-set.html) I think you will be happy.
What are you talking about? The feedback is obviously genuine: http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/british-bespoke-cables
It's probably a home-based setup, some dude making quality cables... I have 5x of them & customer service / construction is perfect.
Reid Malenfant
18-10-2012, 21:37
If you are going to invest in new mains cables anyway, buy screened ones ;)
No point in half egging the pudding :eyebrows:
Can't say I have tried anything mega expensive, probably because I'm happy with Mark Grant DSP 2.5 :)
But if you buy non screened cables you are definately going to miss out on what they can bring to a system imho.
The reason im confused about the two approaches is the the fact there is different arguments for both. The most basic is you dont need shielding and if you introduce shielding it will give you more problems such as ground loops.
I just want a good mains cable using the correct approach. I dont expect my humble sound system to sound night and day better.
The reason im confused about the two approaches is the the fact there is different arguments for both. The most basic is you dont need shielding and if you introduce shielding it will give you more problems such as ground loops.
I just want a good mains cable using the correct approach. I dont expect my humble sound system to sound night and day better.
Hi Colin in your case you just need to make sure that you ground the shield at the plug end only. If you connect the IEC end then yes there is potential for ground loop problems.
Reid Malenfant
18-10-2012, 22:47
Colin, you shouldn't get a ground loop, as if the screened mains cable is built correctly then the screen will only be earthed at the plug. It should NOT connect to the equipment.
The earth cable inside the 3 way cable is the only earth conductor to whatever equipment, they are only joined in the plug. So it's precisely the same as a standard connection, there should be no loops :)
Hope that helps.
Thanks , thats a bit clearer. I once had a tube phono amp that buzzed. Drove me mad until i changed the fancy mains cable to a standard one.
But i have used a fancy mains block i bought at a Heathrow show and the drop in the noise floor bamboozeld my head and i still cant believe it made such a difference. It turned me to the opinion some equipment is not implemented properly. Perhaps flawed power supply or something.
The reason im confused about the two approaches is the the fact there is different arguments for both. The most basic is you dont need shielding and if you introduce shielding it will give you more problems such as ground loops.
I just want a good mains cable using the correct approach. I dont expect my humble sound system to sound night and day better.
When the postman arrives today Colin you will be "very" happy, let your ears decide if shielded or un-shielded is best, that is only part of the complicated jigsaw of parts that go into a mains lead, at the end of the day it's all about the music! :)
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