View Full Version : Amazing vintage belt-drive T/T
Flicking through YouTube earlier, I found a clip of what is, to my ears, probably the finest belt-drive T/T I've heard:
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Excellent music, too! :guitar: :guitar:
Just look at the size and build quality of that The Rek-o-Kut K33H! The combination with it, the Grace 707, and Stanton 681EEE is quite phenomenal... I'd love to hear it in real life! :eek:
Marco.
chris@panteg
16-10-2012, 17:57
Never heard one , but looks ok for an old duffers turntable :eyebrows:
They also made some good ildler drives by all acoounts
Indeed - especially for the American broadcast market. Chris, it's the old duffers turntables that are the best!! ;)
Marco.
chris@panteg
16-10-2012, 18:48
Indeed - especially for the American broadcast market. Chris, it's the old duffers turntables that are the best!! ;)
Marco.
Oh I agree , they just don't make em like they used to :wheniwasaboy:
Its a very fine thing to be sure .
sq225917
16-10-2012, 19:46
Are you seriously claiming to judge a deck based on a youtube sound clip? Honestly...
Audioman
16-10-2012, 20:25
Marco.
You can't possibly tell how good or bad that TT sounds from Youtube and it's not even HD which to be honest does give a flavour of the SQ. The Grace and Stanton are hardly the last word in tonearm/cartridge combinations anyway. Actualy I think that clip sounds below average by current Youtube standards for Hi-Fi displays.
Paul.
No, of course not, but considering how shit YouTube vids usually sound, that one was pretty good.
Also, when the quality of the video is ok (as that one was) you can get a reasonable 'sense' of some of the musical qualities of the equipment, and so I'd bet that the Rek-O-Kut would sound fab in real life! :trust:
Marco.
Marco.
You can't possibly tell how good or bad that TT sounds from Youtube and it's not even HD which to be honest does give a flavour of the SQ. The Grace and Stanton are hardly the last word in tonearm/cartridge combinations anyway. Actualy I think that clip sounds below average by current Youtube standards for Hi-Fi displays.
No worries, Paul. We'll have to agree to differ on that one. Perhaps I just listen for different things?
The Grace and Stanton are hardly the last word in tonearm/cartridge combinations anyway.
Maybe not, but it's one that I think works very well and happen to like. There's an addictive musicality/tone (and I don't mean romantic euphony) one gets with good vintage gear, which completely eludes modern equipment, much to its detriment - and despite it being a YouTube video, those qualities with the Rek-O-Kut, to my ears, are still shining through! :)
Marco.
Presumably you are taking the piss Marco and this is your way at having a dig at belt-drive turntables (though I can't imagine why) - that YouTube clip sounds appalling.
Hahaha - honestly, I'm not! :lol: I should be talking here to Andre - he'd 'get' where I'm coming from.
I'll just have to buy one of those T/Ts (if I can find one) and test my observations in the real world.... ;)
Marco.
:lolsign:
He's a hoot!!
Marco.
No worries, Paul. We'll have to agree to differ on that one. Perhaps I just listen for different things?
I guess you do; but I can't imagine what if you think that clip sounds any good
Yes, but IMHO, the 'crapness' is coming from elsewhere in the reproduction chain (which I can listen through) - not the T/T. Just a hunch :)
By way of comparison then, show me an example of video of a T/T playing on YouTube, which you consider as sounding good/acceptable, within the obvious limitations.
Marco.
sq225917
17-10-2012, 12:44
How about this one. Audio via basic A/D.
https://secure-b.vimeocdn.com/ts/329/195/329195488_295.jpg (https://vimeo.com/47401342)
The audio doesn't have to be crappy low rate mp3 via the camera microphone.
julesd68
17-10-2012, 13:01
OMG - that sounds excellent, even coming out of my shitty Mac-mini speakers!
Wakefield Turntables
17-10-2012, 13:40
How about this one. Audio via basic A/D.
https://secure-b.vimeocdn.com/ts/329/195/329195488_295.jpg (https://vimeo.com/47401342)
The audio doesn't have to be crappy low rate mp3 via the camera microphone.
Love portishead, oh s!@t I'm going to have to buy that records :eek:
Audioman
17-10-2012, 13:57
How about this one. Audio via basic A/D.
https://secure-b.vimeocdn.com/ts/329/195/329195488_295.jpg (https://vimeo.com/47401342)
The audio doesn't have to be crappy low rate mp3 via the camera microphone.
Exactly and there are even better HD examples on Youtube where audio is taken straight thru phono stage into an A/D converter. That is the best Portishead album IMHO.
How about this one. Audio via basic A/D.
https://secure-b.vimeocdn.com/ts/329/195/329195488_295.jpg (https://vimeo.com/47401342)
The audio doesn't have to be crappy low rate mp3 via the camera microphone.
Hahaha.... Cheat - I didn't mean your own T/T! :ner: :D
Nice work, though...
It sounds excellent (by the standards of how high-end audio equipment is judged today), but then we are 'audiophiles' who'll go to the nth degree to get the best sound from our systems, so what you've shown is not representative of the material others will produce on YouTube.
What I'm suggesting is to select a video, randomly, from YT, of a turntable playing music, through a decent system, the sound of which you consider is good or half-decent, and explain your judgement criteria for such.
*That* will be much more interesting - especially the latter! ;)
Marco.
Rare Bird
17-10-2012, 17:22
Flicking through YouTube earlier, I found a clip of what is, to my ears, probably the finest belt-drive T/T I've heard:
Excellent music, too! :guitar: :guitar:
Just look at the size and build quality of that The Rek-o-Kut K33H! The combination with it, the Grace 707, and Stanton 681EEE is quite phenomenal... I'd love to hear it in real life! :eek:
Marco.
Excellent TT's those.. I would dearly love a 'Russco' tho
You know I also love Russcos and Gates! And you also know exactly what I mean about the classic 'vintage sound', as opposed to the high-end modern equivalent, eh dude? ;)
Marco.
Audioman
17-10-2012, 17:43
What I'm suggesting is to select a video, randomly, from YT, of a turntable playing music, through a decent system, the sound of which you consider is good or half-decent, and explain your judgement criteria for such.
*That* will be much more interesting - especially the latter! ;)
Marco.
LMxQyv2QMsM&feature=related
Your favourite belt drive - Try it in HD 720 ! :lol:
Rare Bird
17-10-2012, 17:52
You know I also love Russcos and Gates! And you also know exactly what I mean about the classic 'vintage sound', as opposed to the high-end modern equivalent, eh dude? ;)
Marco.
Most deffo, i had great pleasure throwing the last piece of modern shyte through the window.Idler for life now..
Sparta is another super idler broadcast jobbie.
Audioman
17-10-2012, 17:54
Better quality equipment and recording. Try 1080p HD !!!
WfQD3aUfHsw&feature=related
Deatails of equipment and technique used on YT page. Almost professional video editing.
Paul.
Hi Paul,
Lol... Before I comment, see here:
What I'm suggesting is to select a video, randomly, from YT, of a turntable playing music, through a decent system, the sound of which you consider is good or half-decent, and explain your judgement criteria for such.
Please address the bit in bold. I'd like to know the rationale behind your decision to choose those particular videos :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
17-10-2012, 18:06
I honestly belive that some people are so obsessed with perfect specs. I just wish they would let their ears do the deciding..
Most deffo, i had great pleasure throwing the last piece of modern shyte through the window.Idler for life now..
Sparta is another super idler broadcast jobbie.
Lol! For me, there's a solidity (particularly in the bass), sense of attack, rhythmic drive and depth of tone, with the Rek-O-Kut (going through goodness knows what pishy system), that's completely lacking in the vids of any of the other T/Ts, the sound of which is undoubtedly cleaner, more 'hi-res' and explicitly 'correct', but for me, not as inherently musical.
I'd love to hear the Rek-O-Kut through, say, the system that the VPI was used in - or even better, through Simon's! :exactly:
Marco.
A significant amount of the 'crapness' of the original clip comes from the fact that the pitch is all over the place! For me, literally none of those positive aspects described exist in that YouTube clip!
To be honest, I think some imaginations are working overtime on this one.
chris@panteg
17-10-2012, 19:14
Most deffo, i had great pleasure throwing the last piece of modern shyte through the window.Idler for life now..
Sparta is another super idler broadcast jobbie.
Andre , what was the last modern TT you owned ? If you don't mind me asking .
A significant amount of the 'crapness' of the original clip comes from the fact that the pitch is all over the place! For me, literally none of those positive aspects described exist in that YouTube clip!
Well, Mark, that just shows how we listen differently (which was the whole object of the exercise) :)
Whilst I fully acknowledge the sonic limitations of the Rek-O-Kut video (one could hardly miss the T/T's inaccurate pitch (!), although that would likely be cured with some judicious fettling), despite that, what stood out MORE ('more' is key word here), for me, was the inherent musicality of the T/T, the sound of which, despite the obvious sonic flaws, had me nodding my head to the music, whereas listening to all the other T/Ts, although admiring the 'hi-fi-ness' of the sound, didn't engender in me the same emotional response.
That is precisely why, more often than not, I prefer good vintage gear to its modern counterpart, as to my ears, it usually has more 'soul'! :cool:
YMMV.
Marco.
chris@panteg
17-10-2012, 19:34
Sorry Marco I just don't get that , a turntable is mechanical device , made out of nicely turned bits of wood and metal , how can it have soul ? Some decks can convey soul in music better than others but to me a turntable is a machine that just adds distortion and coloration to the original recording , the trick is to minimise that as much as possible .
Audioman
17-10-2012, 19:37
Hi Paul,
Lol... Before I comment, see here:
Please address the bit in bold. I'd like to know the rationale behind your decision to choose those particular videos :)
Marco.
Marco.
Thought I hinted that for the Rega. Anyway I picked videos with HD sound because it obviously gives a better flavour of the actual sound.
Firstly I know Rega isn't exactly favoured by yourself and many here but that vid captures a modest set up and shows good sound is possible.
"Video shot with a Canon G9 Digital Camera.
The audio was recorded through my system.
Rega P3-24
Groovetracer Reference sub platter
Shure m97xe with Jico Needle Upgrade
Parasound Zphone phono pre-amp
Onkyo Receiver"
The VPI vid was chosen as it is an example much better sounding set up. In this instance a great deal of sophistication is used in capturing the sound and compiling an interesting video. Also shows how good a Dyna 20X can sound in the right set up given that bad comments have been left on this forum.
"Equipment used: VPI Scoutmaster with JMW-9T arm, upgraded mini HR-X feet and 300rpm motor, Dynavector DV-20X high output (2.8mv) moving coil cartridge, Musical Fidelity X-LP phono preamp, Presonus Inspire interface, and Wireworld Eclipse II interconnects. The cartridge was aligned using the VPI alignment jig and tracking force was set to 2.1g.
The video was edited and rendered with Adobe Premiere using the Window Media video 9 codec, 1920x1080 @ 12mbps and Windows Audio Media 9.2 Lossless codec - 100% quality, 96K / 24bit vbr. "
Paul
Rare Bird
17-10-2012, 20:05
Well, Mark, that just shows how we listen differently (which was the whole object of the exercise) :)
Whilst I fully acknowledge the sonic limitations of the Rek-O-Kut video (one could hardly miss the T/T's inaccurate pitch (!), although that would likely be cured with some judicious fettling), despite that, what stood out MORE ('more' is key word here), for me, was the inherent musicality of the T/T, the sound of which, despite the obvious sonic flaws, had me nodding my head to the music, whereas listening to all the other T/Ts, although admiring the 'hi-fi-ness' of the sound, didn't engender in me the same emotional response.
That is precisely why, more often than not, I prefer good vintage gear to its modern counterpart, as to my ears, it usually has more 'soul'! :cool:
:yesbruv:
Sorry Marco I just don't get that , a turntable is mechanical device , made out of nicely turned bits of wood and metal , how can it have soul ?
I know, Chris, but the concept requires some lateral thinking. Let me give a few examples...
It's like listening to the same music in indentical T/Ts and systems, where in one system said music is being reproduced by, say, an SPU cartridge, and in the other, say, a Lyra Dorian.
The system, containing the Lyra, would (aguably) produce a more technically correct 'hi-fi' sound, but the former would major MORE (there's that word again :eyebrows:)) on bringing out the 'soul'/emotion, inherently present in the recording. I can say that from experience of using both cartridges, and many others from both manufacturers.
Although a turntable is simply, as you say: "a mechanical device, made out of nicely turned bits of wood and metal", it is also governed fundamentally by the sonic signature imparted by its constituent parts.
Also, let's look at cars... Take, say, a Lexus, for a test drive around the streets in your local area. Then do the same thing in a vintage 1969 Mustang, or E-type Jag, and come back and tell me that the latter, despite just being "a mechanical device, made out of nicely turned bits of wood and metal", didn't have more SOUL and was a damn sight more fun to drive (that is if you actually LIKE driving), despite being hugely technically inferior!! ;)
Like cars (although here SOUL has been traded for safety and efficiency) with some modern hi-fi, in the quest for ever greater 'accuracy', audio engineers have engineered-out the fun factor...
Marco.
Sound is just pressure waves in air.
"soul" and "emotion" in sound don't exist, they only exist within the human who hears the sound and then goes on to interpret certain aspects of that sound as "soul" or "emotion" calling on their subconcious body/emotion memories, cultural learnings etc etc.
How can you assert that the sounds you like in that YT vid are from the deck as opposed to the system as a whole colouring the sound or even the microphone on the camera colouring the sound or the compression of the low bitrate file colouring the sound?
All could be causing aspects of sound to be highlighted that you subconsciously interpret as "emotion".
Often, people react to the midrange when experiencing such things, where the human mind/ear is most sensitive to communications from other humans (hence more likely to involve emotion and understanding of another human's "soul").
You normally advocate listening to gear in your own system and things working in people's system's differently. Yet that's out of the window here isn't it?
I didn't touch on soul and emotion in the music itself.
Again it's just sound waves and the emotion is in the notes and how they are played - their length, vibrato, timing (not too mechanical) etc.
You will find that many soulful musicians and some very well known ones at that are very happy to listen to their favourite music on quite low range hifi.
They are happy because the musicality, soul, emotion - whatever - that they enjoy is expressed by the playing and you don't need any kind of super-duper hifi set-up to get that accross.
Hence, even a bad youtube video can portray soul and emotion in the playing.
But that surely has nothing to do with the Rek-O-kut does it? Only that you like the music?
How can you assert that the sounds you like in that YT vid are from the deck as opposed to the system as a whole colouring the sound or even the microphone on the camera colouring the sound or the compression of the low bitrate file colouring the sound?
I can't - it's just a gut feeling. I like gut feelings - and often obtain significant reward from following them! :)
You either 'get' that sort of thing or you don't.
Marco.
Rare Bird
17-10-2012, 20:41
You like a sore head i guess, i can picture you banging it on the wall with this topic...
PaulStewart
18-10-2012, 00:10
In 1980 I was sharing a house with my brother in Charleston South Carolina. He was DJ'ing on a radio station called WGCA. It had three studios which had twin Ruscos with Gray unipivots and Shure M-55s I think. New management came in ripped out the turntables and put in Technics decks which were good but not as good. My bro and I took a pair of decks home and re-plinthed them. Happy days. Wish I'd been there when the got rid of the Ampex Reel to Reels
BTW I've heard loads of Rek-o-Kut decks in the States and I've yet to hear a duff one. The idlers are sublime and the belt drives are good too. I've heard the model in the clip and Marco, your "gut feeling" is right.
Hi Paul,
In 1980 I was sharing a house with my brother in Charleston South Carolina. He was DJ'ing on a radio station called WGCA. It had three studios which had twin Ruscos with Gray unipivots and Shure M-55s I think. New management came in ripped out the turntables and put in Technics decks which were good but not as good.
I don't doubt that whatsoever. There's a propulsive drive/bass heft and 'physicality' to the sound of these hugely constructed idler broadcast T/Ts that I really love and which no so-called 'proper' modern 'audiophile' turntable I've heard can replicate. The latter, to my ears, often sound impressive, in a hi-fi sense, but lack the sheer 'balls' and hugely addictive musical presentation of the former. For me, they always sound somewhat lightweight and 'airy-fairy' in comparison.
I just love that big 'n' bouncy 'broadcast sound'. I like my T/T to produce the type of sound that the BBC did in its heyday, on FM broadcasts, using vinyl, when sonic standards were high, and they did kind of stuff that really well! It's difficult to put into words, but I think you know what I mean? :)
BTW I've heard loads of Rek-o-Kut decks in the States and I've yet to hear a duff one. The idlers are sublime and the belt drives are good too. I've heard the model in the clip and Marco, your "gut feeling" is right.
Lol - nice one. It seems that I'm not as daft then as some folk think! ;)
Marco.
I can't - it's just a gut feeling. I like gut feelings - and often obtain significant reward from following them! :)
You either 'get' that sort of thing or you don't.
Marco.
It's called analogue filtering Marco & it occurs in the most important format, the Human Brain.:D
Indeed - and no man-made test apparatus can replicate said filtering! ;)
Marco.
Rare Bird
18-10-2012, 11:14
Would it be cheeky of me to mention that the reason i hate modern amplifier it's exactly the same really. I love the sound good vintage amps give that a modern amp don't.
When i visit bake-off's & hear stereo's that are suppose to constutute good sound, i have to walk away, run for the nearest bog & laugh out loud..
Would it be cheeky of me to mention that the reason i hate modern amplifier it's exactly the same really. I love the sound good vintage amps give that a modern amp don't.
When i visit bake-off's & hear stereo's that are suppose to constutute good sound, i have to walk away, run for the nearest bog & laugh out loud..
LOL!
Marco.
Beobloke
18-10-2012, 12:08
It seems that I'm not as daft then as some folk think! ;)
Marco.
Yes you are. You just happen to be right on this occasion...
:ner:
Yes, it's tough, but it's a situation that I've gradually become used to! :D
Marco.
On a similar subject, I came across an interesting thread on Vinyl Engine, entitled: "I want the sound of the 70`s broadcast studios". As an aside, I too love that sound! The thread is here: http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34452&start=45 but the link might not take you to where it should, so if you're interested, you may have to search for it on VE.
Anyway, the last post on the thread reads thus:
Tips to get that massive AM/FM on air sound,
Huge idler/direct drive broadcast turntable mounted in massive plinth.
12" broadcast tonearm (AT, Shure, ROK, SME, etc)
Broadcast cartridge with conical stylus (I love the Stanton 680 family)
45 RPM records
Broadcast processor (CBS Volumax or Audimax, Gates Sta-Level, Gates Level Devil, RCA BA 5A, Collins, Fairchild 660 or Conax, or Orban Optimod)
Are any of you who have worked in the broadcasting industry familiar with the above processors - perhaps, in the past, you may even have used one of them?
I understand/know the validity and purpose of the first four items, but with regards to the last one, what is a "broadcast processor", and what exactly is its purpose and sonic influence on the sound that leaves the broadcasting studio? Also, is it something that could be connected in line with a domestic hi-fi system, and if so, would there be any possible sonic advantages?
I have a vague understanding of them being some sort of limiters, but what is it that they are limiting and why? Basically, if someone could explain the role of a broadcast processor, how it works, and what it does sonically, that would be great! :cool:
Paul, I suspect that you may some thoughts on this?
Marco.
Surely, the final link in the chain is a cheap AM/FM radio turned up really loud..
Do you have an FM transmitter on your phone Marco? Use it playing some mp3s and turn up the Roberts radio really loud.
Lol... Very good! Anyone know anything about broadcast processors, then? :)
Marco.
On a similar subject, I came across an interesting thread on Vinyl Engine, entitled: "I want the sound of the 70`s broadcast studios". As an aside, I too love that sound! The thread is here: http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34452&start=45 but the link might not take you to where it should, so if you're interested, you may have to search for it on VE.
Anyway, the last post on the thread reads thus:
Are any of you who have worked in the broadcasting industry familiar with the above processors - perhaps, in the past, you may even have used one of them?
I understand/know the validity and purpose of the first four items, but with regards to the last one, what is a "broadcast processor", and what exactly is its purpose and sonic influence on the sound that leaves the broadcasting studio? Also, is it something that could be connected in line with a domestic hi-fi system, and if so, would there be any possible sonic advantages?
I have a vague understanding of them being some sort of limiters, but what is it that they are limiting and why? Basically, if someone could explain the role of a broadcast processor, how it works, and what it does sonically, that would be great! :cool:
Paul, I suspect that you may some thoughts on this?
Marco.
I'm not, but a quick search (google is your friend) shows that they are limiters and compressors.
As always, there's a penchant for older gear (maybe valve) as it might do the job in a smoother and nicer way. Studio nerds love this stuff, especially dance producers. It get's you a particular 'sound', dynamic and slammy.
But in terms of doing it all music, it's the same as CD and the loudness wars.. completely non-audiophile. Part of the "art" of music making - i.e. getting the sound an artist intends - but not good for low level detail and soundstage etc etc
Lol... Very good! Anyone know anything about broadcast processors, then? :)
Marco.
ACtually, I used the FM trasmitter on my phone for the first time in the car the other day with some flacs - actually sounded pretty good (remember it was in the car). As good as Radio 3 or any good quality FM broadcast.
PaulStewart
20-10-2012, 00:01
Hi Marco,
Broadcast limiters are "soft knee" compressors used to control, as transparently as possible, the dynamic range of the station output. The thought is that if you are listening on a radio or in the car rather than a tuner on a hifi with a wide dynamic range, then if you turn the level up to hear the pianissimo when the forte comes in it will distort or even blow the speaker. So to mitigate that without making it too obvious the optimod, fairchild, Dorrough etc. were developed.
The thing about compression is that it enables you to run the whole reduced dynamic range at higher overall level so things sound a lot more punchy. The thing is that old great broadcast limiters squeeze really softly, making the music punch without the "suck and blow" of units like the Joe Meek compressors. As a result the old ones are now being remade for studio use. In my edit studio I have a couple of TLA units that have valve mic pre amps, valve EQ and either valve or optical compressor/limiting. All the circuits are from vintage designs. Couple one of these with an old school dynamic mic, like a Shure SM7 or an Electro-Voice RE20 and I can have you sounding like a 50s/60s American DJ in about 30 seconds:lol:
The down side is that people have cottoned on to how good this old kit sounds. I want a stereo Pultec or Fiarchild broadcast comp/limiter for mastering TV sound and I will have to take out a second mortgage or sell the Mother in Law to white slavers to pay for one :(
Hi Marco,
I have to admit that I too listen to a lot of youtube videos and even judge gears on its basis. Here is a belt drive TT that I thought sounded the best I have heard on youtube, please change resolution to HD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Etdrs7MwoI&feature=BFa&list=UL8RE2UVExCDI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGKRUUpetmw&feature=BFa&list=ULV7JGWWoZdPk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkk0zoSBSJw&feature=BFa&list=ULhGKRUUpetmw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOsPAL10hOc&feature=BFa&list=ULqkk0zoSBSJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7JGWWoZdPk&feature=BFa&list=ULaoAl35a1FrU
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense of the first order. You listen to a recording made using a camera microphone of a pair of speakers playing in a room, the file is not lossless and not very high resolution - you then draw conclusions regarding just the turntable! You may as well say the video demonstrates the efficacy of the best interconnects you have ever heard!
Lol... Calm down, dear! :eyebrows:
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense of the first order. You listen to a recording made using a camera microphone of a pair of speakers playing in a room, the file is not lossless and not very high resolution - you then draw conclusions regarding just the turntable!
As I said earlier, I simply 'listen through' the limitations present and go on my gut feeling (and for those who know the Rek-O-Kut in question, that was deemed as being correct). Perhaps Pani does this, too? :)
Apart from the results being higher resolution, it's not much different from judging the sound of a turntable, using someone else's needle-drop (a common practice in some circles) - especially, in my case, when all I do is listen to it through the speakers on my laptop (no 'fancy' equipment is used), exactly as is the case with YouTube vids! ;)
Marco.
Rare Bird
20-10-2012, 13:29
Well H :eyebrows:
I got exactly the same impression Marco did when listerning to the clip so how that nonesence then!
I agree there is some stupidity in this exercise of listening to youtube videos and forming opinion on gears but as Marco said I also get a gut feeling when I listen to the music on these videos. And in the absence of any demo or audition a youtube video sometimes seems adequate:lol:
The Black Adder
23-10-2012, 08:09
One of the best belt drive TT's I've heard for hardly any out lay was the Trio 1033. Looks are boring and the case work is a little cheap but a great sounding deck.
I can see where your coming from, Marco with the Rekky. It does sound nice but then I'd have to know how it was recorded, sound wise.
Style wise it's superb... lol, never seen one before now.
Lol... Calm down, dear! :eyebrows:
As I said earlier, I simply 'listen through' the limitations present and go on my gut feeling (and for those who know the Rek-O-Kut in question, that was deemed as being correct). Perhaps Pani does this, too? :)
Apart from the results being higher resolution, it's not much different from judging the sound of a turntable, using someone else's needle-drop (a common practice in some circles) - especially, in my case, when all I do is listen to it through the speakers on my laptop (no 'fancy' equipment is used), exactly as is the case with YouTube vids! ;)
Marco.
Well H :eyebrows:
I got exactly the same impression Marco did when listerning to the clip so how that nonesence then!
Listening with your eyes ! Hearing what you want.
I've heard many youtube vids that sound the same as that - got all the same good things going for it. Only there's no turntable involved ! It's a straight rip onto Youtube from a CD.
Here's a good quote for you all:
“The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe.”
― Voltaire
Listening with your eyes ! Hearing what you want.
Definitely not in my case, and I'm sure not in other people's here either.
"We are what we repeatedly do; excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." – Aristotle.
Marco.
Mike - H
25-10-2012, 08:49
Does anyone else go on you tube (post #55) and then start following the other links at the side? I ended up at the Athens audiophile club, no wonder the country's skint.
Mike
Wakefield Turntables
25-10-2012, 08:59
Yep sometimes. I remember looking at some jr149 links and ending up at some Chinese site specialising in horn speakers :scratch: figure that one out.
Rare Bird
25-10-2012, 09:14
Listening with your eyes ! Hearing what you want.
I don't know how you work that out as it's pig ugly imho.
Indeed. I certainly didn't pick the Rek-O-Kut for its looks - and anyway, I don't even normally like belt-drives!
Marco.
Johnnie7
27-10-2012, 19:46
After listening to Si short video of the Portishead Lp ...that track has grown on me i can tell u:)
so i just ordered up a copy of the Lp and new cartridge ...just for experimental reasons heheh :eyebrows:
Audioman
29-10-2012, 10:03
After listening to Si short video of the Portishead Lp ...that track has grown on me i can tell u:)
so i just ordered up a copy of the Lp and new cartridge ...just for experimental reasons heheh :eyebrows:
I think the Portishead LP refered to earlier is 'Roseland NYC Live' not 'Dummy'. Nice double vinyl without groove cramming.
Paul.
I think the Portishead LP refered to earlier is 'Roseland NYC Live'...
Yes, I think it is too (well, I know it is).
What I'm suggesting is to select a video, randomly, from YT, of a turntable playing music, through a decent system, the sound of which you consider is good or half-decent, and explain your judgement criteria for such.
I don't get this at all Marco. I haven't heard any YT vids, of the kind you describe, that sound good - certainly not to the point that I feel could defend such an opinion (many sound really very poor).
As someone has said earlier, I think this is really just judging sound with ones eyes (or perhaps it is just a piece of music you like). I don't know, the whole 'vintage' look doesn't appeal to me in the same way it does for others.
I've just watched sq's video - it's jolly good - but I've heard that record many times at his house, and it sounds a lot better there than it does through my laptop (which is rather what you would expect).
hoopsontoast
29-10-2012, 10:46
Talking of vintage Belt Drives, anyone know much about a Sony TTS-3000?
Any first hand experience with them?
Looks well specced for the age, and plenty of good comments on the web.
http://www.audiodoo.de/uploads/tx_pnmaudiodoo/market/38653.jpg
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/sony/tts-3000.shtml
Rare Bird
29-10-2012, 11:08
O yes they are brilliant motor units.. Gis it :eyebrows:
hoopsontoast
29-10-2012, 11:34
Cool, got the bits from one on its way :)
Johnnie7
29-10-2012, 17:19
I think the Portishead LP refered to earlier is 'Roseland NYC Live' not 'Dummy'. Nice double vinyl without groove cramming.
Paul.
ahh thanks for the info...ill order one of those as awell:eyebrows:
Rare Bird
02-11-2012, 10:39
Are you seriously claiming to judge a deck based on a youtube sound clip? Honestly...
Don't want to bring this all up again but as an example..Listern to this clip, a poor recording but i can hear that drum kit would sound superb if i were there, i can just hear it would! thats how i like to hear vintage drums, they don't sound like that on modern recordings.
Drums don't sound like that on modern recordings? Or drums these days dont sound like vintage drums?
Either way the sound of the clip is irrelevant! In the first case,you'd be hearing it live so the recording techniques of past times won't heard either. In the second case, if it's down to the make of drum, it has nothing with the recording, modern or not..
Im yet to listen to the clip but from what you've described, written, it sounds like expectation bias would like easily come into play.
Don't want to bring this all up again but as an example..Listern to this clip, a poor recording but i can hear that drum kit would sound superb if i were there, i can just hear it would! thats how i like to hear vintage drums, they don't sound like that on modern recordings.
aY5a3Un3y8g
Hehe.. Have just watched the clip!
That's nothing more than the tonal balance of drums being recorded live on a hard stage eccentuating to top end, giving a lively feel. The band is being ambient mic'd as opposed to close mic'd so there's natural reverb of the hall there.
You can here that sound too on shows like strictly come dancing, where the drums aren't close mic'd either cos they're too loud in the context of the rest of the band. Dont necessarily take the strictly come dancing literally but manytv shows, especially US style with a live band.
Then clip is from a poorly setup vhs playback or a copy, hence the fuzz at the bottom of the screen. Played no doubt on an average player and digitised god knows how at only 360p which has a youtube audio rate of 128kbps AAC.
No need to go back to this as you say, but i guess posts need to be responded to or the forum collapses into random disconnected posts.
Well no-one uses ambient miking for drums on a studio recording these days so that does sort of bear out what Andre is saying.
Rare Bird
02-11-2012, 13:30
Nat your just not getting it..There for forget it chaps.. The example was to re enforce what marco said
Well no-one uses ambient miking for drums on a studio recording these days so that does sort of bear out what Andre is saying.
They do. If they want that sound, that's how you get it.
Marco was talking about telling the quality of sound from a deck playing a record via a youtube clip, not the style of recording of that record itself. Andre was backing that up with his clip..
Nat your just not getting it..There for forget it chaps.. The example was to re enforce what marco said
I can only go by the words in your post :confused:
Appears to reinforce the opposite of what Marco said.
I like live drums, no love live drums. My sound memory tells me i'd love it if I were there too. Hearing them recorded in a 'live' way, by ambient micing, reminds me of that sound memory and my brain responds with associated feelings.
A certain type of suncream reminds me of skiing and the associated emotions and excitment come rushing back - that's the essence of expectation bias.
EVERY AND ANY turntable youtube clip should be good enough to portray live drums on a recording, or the difference between a trumpet or frenchhorn. The sound of a turntable itself is more subtle, hidden by the sound of the recording itself in many ways. The way youtube clip is filmed and compressed is going to have a larger magnitude of influence on the final sound over and above the total system sound let alone the sound of the TT within that system..
Easy to jump to many conclusions and then allow the associations to flow and in turn a coloured emotional response. Not a bad thing, unless one is claiming they are immune from it.
But hey, maybe you're not getting it? ("maybe" - notice I'm not telling you how you're thinking) Let's forget it as you say...
Rare Bird
02-11-2012, 15:47
They do. If they want that sound, that's how you get it.
Marco was talking about telling the quality of sound from a deck playing a record via a youtube clip, not the style of recording of that record itself. Andre was backing that up with his clip..
I was trying to show it as an example through clip that i bet that drum kit sounds great even though the sound is bad, i can just tell it sounds good, the same way Marco can tell that turntable sounds good even though the clip SQ aint great.
It's nothing to do with live drums or how i like to hear them it's about telling through a clip regardless of if it's bad SQ or not. Call it magical powers if you will. :eyebrows:
I wouldn't call it magic - wishful thinking isn't magic after all (though it is mighty powerful).
I was trying to show it as an example through clip that i bet that drum kit sounds great even though the sound is bad, i can just tell it sounds good, the same way Marco can tell that turntable sounds good even though the clip SQ aint great.
It's nothing to do with live drums or how i like to hear them it's about telling through a clip regardless of if it's bad SQ or not. Call it magical powers if you will. :eyebrows:
S'ok, dude, we know that we're the chosen ones.... ;)
Marco.
I was trying to show it as an example through clip that i bet that drum kit sounds great even though the sound is bad, i can just tell it sounds good, the same way Marco can tell that turntable sounds good even though the clip SQ aint great.
It's nothing to do with live drums or how i like to hear them it's about telling through a clip regardless of if it's bad SQ or not. Call it magical powers if you will. :eyebrows:
Proove it ! Oh... no-one can. Can't show that the Rek-o-Kut sounded good either (they might in general, perhaps, but that particular one might have been shagged, the cartridge on its last legs, but fortunately the mic on the video recorder masked everything!)
So we're left to just the imaginary and lot of self-belief.
That's a nice world to live in though, so don't go a-changin' ! Imagine being poor us, only hearing the poor video sound.
Rare Bird
03-11-2012, 00:13
Jesus i will argue this till i'm blue in the face Why are you lot not getting this or is it your moulded in some kind of hifi directive?
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