View Full Version : Classical & Power Amp Day at Martin Towers
Jerry (jandl100) came around yesterday with his big Parasound A21 power amp and whole bags of CDs. We were in for a day of sonic delights, emotional wrenches and general good bonhomie. All day we both added to our shopping lists of great CDs to buy, one of my favourite reasons for these get-togethers. However, one of our aims was to compare our power amps as I had been keen to try the Stereophile A-rated Parasound in my system for some time.
The Parasound is big and heavy. The circuit is designed by the well regarded John Curl and works in class A up to about 13W or so, the rest of the power amounting to a maximum 250W per channel. Compare this with the Chord's 350W per channel. The Chord is only more compact by dint of its massive switched mode power supply. I was pleased to see that the Parasound has balanced inputs (my system is largely balanced and entirely so when playing silver discs) and 4mm speaker terminals.
The Parasound slotted into my system rack with little space to spare and worked fine fed from my Powerplant P10. Jerry brought a Nordost power cable with him and it did seem to work well with his amp. My Chord was powered from an MCRU Ultimate, using its unusual 16A connector. One thing of interest was the idling power. The Chord Idles at about 80W but the Parasound was 110W higher in dissipation, idling at about 190W (this from the P10's readout). This validates the Parasound's claim of class A at low levels compared with Chord's sliding bias scheme.
So how did they compare? Well, we had a slight difference of opinion while acknowleging that they are both top class amplifiers. I will let Jerry add his opinions separately so these are mine: I found the Parasound to image its soundstage slightly further back compared with the Chord. Imagine a line drawn between the speakers: the Chord images pretty much in that line, throwing a wide and deep soundstage. The Parasound was about a foot further back, always imaging behind that line.
The Paraound is a slightly warmer tonally balanced amp, but there isn't much in it. The Chord has an undeserved reputation for sounding cool or even hard and nothing could be further from the truth. Chord suffer mainly because of their poor choice of speakers at exhibitions. Nevertheless, the diference was so small that it was easy to acclimatise to either.
I found (and Jerry agreed with me) that the Chord has more deep bass 'shudder' (that hall effect after a heavy bass drum beat) and generally more clout and heft (Jerry's word). On the other hand, Jerry felt that the Parasound had a touch more edge definition. I didn't hear a difference, to be honest, finding both amps outstanding in their leading edges, fine detail, microdynamics, treble extension and overall goodness.
In the end I was very glad to have heard the Parasound. It's a tremendous amp and extremely good value in view of its price. I could easily live with it. I am happy to report that I will be keeping the Chord, though. We each agreed that we have the right amp for our systems and for our musical tastes. What a great turn-out!
Two Big Sandy Monsters: Parasound A21 and Chord SPM-1200E
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8060/8221253629_b490c1e7c2_b.jpg
A lot of our day was actually spent listening, with each amp in operation at different times. It was wonderful to focus on the classical genre and I found Jerry's knowledge to be deep and enlightening. Jerry likes a lot of small scale works - soloists and chamber especially. I tend to go for the bigger orchestral performances. However, it was surprising how much we enjoyed everything we played and often produced music to listen to that was the opposite of our stated preferences. That's what I love about classical, there's always something new and wonderful I've not heard before.
Playlist coming shortly...
Hi Martin
Did you try any proper music - by which I mean rock music ;) ? Just interested as I am in the market for new amplification and the Chord is way out of my price range but I could go to a s/h A21.
Weiss - Sonatas for Lute (Naxos)
Mahler - Symphony No. 5, Inoue
Mahler - Symphony No. 6, Nanut
Barbara Bonney - Fairest Isle
Shostakovich - Symphony No. 10, Jarvi
Chrstina Pluhar - All'Improvviso
R Strauss - Also Sprach Zarathustra, Philadelphia, Ormandy
Caldara - Cantate, Sonate ed Arie
Albeniz - Suite Espanola, Fruhbeck de Burgos
Bach - Sonatas and Partitas, Christiane Edinger
Shostakovich - Symphony No. 13, Concertgebouw, Haitink
Shostakovich - Violin Concerto, Erxleben
Vivaldi - Gloria, AAM, Preston
Vivaldi - Four Seasons, Drottningholm Baroque Ensemble
Quintero de Paraiba - Suites & Piano Concerto
Glass - Violin Concerto
Glass - Akhnaten
Faure - Requiem, Kings College Cambridge
Berlioz - Requiem, Toronto SO
Ince - Symphony No. 2
Kabelevsky - Cello Concerto No. 1
Cecilia Bartoli - If You Love Me
Mahler - Ruckert Lieder, Minton
Janacek - Sinfonietta, Reference Recordings
Elisabeth Valletti - Innocenti
Did you try any proper music - by which I mean rock music ;) ? Just interested as I am in the market for new amplification and the Chord is way out of my price range but I could go to a s/h A21.
'proper music' - :lol:
Yes, I played Van Morrison - Common One, a fantastic recording and a great test for a hi-fi system. Everything I have said about the two amps was validated with this music. You could buy the Parasound knowing that it's a great rock performer.
jandl100
14-10-2012, 11:41
Thanks for a great, musically rewarding afternoon, Martin. It was a genuine pleasure to spend the time with you. :)
My goodness, Martin's Usher speakers are impressive - to look at and to listen to. At 165Kg they are getting on for 4x as heavy as my own floorstanding speakers - and they sound it - with a huge dynamic range and a big, bold sound. They aren't just about scale, they have very high rez across the whole frequency range, too.
Regarding the amp comparison -- Yes, both are excellent amps. I was a little worried that my "excellent value" Parasound wouldn't actually make the grade into Martin's big Ushers compared to his Chord amp at double the price or so. In fact, I think we both agreed that the sound quality per se is to a similar and gratifyingly high level.
The Chord sounds more powerful to me, but even allowing for that it has deeper bass with more heft and 'shudder'. I didn't hear either amp run out of power, and we were pumping some serious SPLs at times! But the bass is the thing for Martin, I think - and the Chord is a better match for the Ushers and Martin's listening preferences.
Where I think the Parasound won out was with slightly better image focus and faster small-scale transient ability. Martin didn't hear it that way, though! I think the upper frequencies are a bit cleaner and purer with the Parasound, too. There's not a lot in, really, and side by side comparisons aside, I'd be happy to live with either amp.
It would be very interesting to do the comparison again, but at my place into my MBL speakers. It's a very different kind of presentation, with an omni radiation pattern and with about half the woofer driver area available! - Martin's Ushers have two 11 inch woofers each, my MBLs have two 8 inch woofers each.
Hopefully, Martin will be able to make it to my place sometime soon - he will certainly be very welcome. :thumbsup:
Audio Al
14-10-2012, 11:48
Sounds like a fun day box swapping and listening :D
jandl100
14-10-2012, 11:59
One interesting (?) thought that didn't occur to me at the time :doh: was that my Nordost mains cable has a bit of a reputation for a slightly shy bass-end -- it doesn't matter that much to me as I value it's mid & high frequency transparency rather more than bass weight -- but it may well have been a contributing factor to the different bass performances of the the 2 amps on large scale music during the amp comparison.
Nice write-up, chaps. Glad you guys had a good time, as I knew you would. I'll comment more later, after lunch :cool:
Marco.
my Nordost mains cable has a bit of a reputation for a slightly shy bass-end
That's interesting, Jerry, and could well explain some of the differences we heard since the MCRU Ultimate is certainly not bass shy. In fact, you might want to consider one just to give your system a lift in that area.
Enough of all this music babble nonsense, what I want to know Jerry is what was Martin's Chilli like . . . . did it pass muster and marks out of 10?
:D
So, the Parasound amp is neutral and the Chord amp slightly bright in balance then :)
P.S. I've heard them outside of a show situation and also heard Wilson Benesch speakers sound far better than when these two totally unmatched ranges are partnered together.
Enough of all this music babble nonsense, what I want to know Jerry is what was Martin's Chilli like . . . . did it pass muster and marks out of 10?
:D
Well, the munchies, Chez-M, in my experience, are usually of the highest standard :)
Marco.
jandl100
14-10-2012, 14:04
Enough of all this music babble nonsense, what I want to know Jerry is what was Martin's Chilli like . . . . did it pass muster and marks out of 10?
:D
The chilli was good.
Marks out of 10? - no, this is a subjective forum, measurement freaks can go elsewhere! :eyebrows:
. . . this is a subjective forum, measurement freaks can go elsewhere!
:lol:
. . . good answer
So, the Parasound amp is neutral and the Chord amp slightly bright in balance then :)
No, it's much more subtle than that. They are both essentially very transparent, it's just that they lie on slightly opposite sides of the line. 'Bright' is a term I associate with components that have an obvious tonal tilt.
Enough of all this music babble nonsense, what I want to know Jerry is what was Martin's Chilli like . . . . did it pass muster and marks out of 10?
:lol: I toned down the power considerably as I didn't know how Jerry would like it. When I make chilli for myself it's pretty fiery :)
It would be very interesting to do the comparison again, but at my place into my MBL speakers.
You're on, Jerry. I would find that fascinating, too. It will probably have to be after Christmas, but we'll make a date soon.
jandl100
14-10-2012, 17:53
:lol: I toned down the power considerably as I didn't know how Jerry would like it. When I make chilli for myself it's pretty fiery :)
Yes, you're right, Martin. Unlike your speakers, the chilli was a bit tame. ;)
Reid Malenfant
14-10-2012, 18:44
Nice to hear that the Parasound is up there with the Chord sound wise :) I think the likelihood of the Chord having a slightly more solid bass response was a given to me before the comparison even took place. It's te recharge rate of the PSU caps in the Chord that'll clinch that one.
Also good to hear you both had a fun & entertaining time :D
Crazy to think that I have the 5 channel version of Jerrys amp just to run a centre speaker :rfl:
:mental:
Guys, did you listen to much vinyl? If so, Jerry, what did you think of Martin's Techy? :)
Marco.
hifinutt
14-10-2012, 19:34
one day would love to hear the parasound JC1 monoblock which is reviewed very favourably by many
Marco - yes, we listened to some vinyl. I'll leave Jerry to comment.
one day would love to hear the parasound JC1 monoblock which is reviewed very favourably by many
And indeed the Chord is available in monoblock form too - SPM-1400E. They are probably both more of the same, but things get pricy at that level.
jandl100
14-10-2012, 20:28
Guys, did you listen to much vinyl? If so, Jerry, what did you think of Martin's Techy? :)
Marco.
Capable of hugely explosive dynamics - Martin played a Decca LP of an Albeniz solo guitar piece, transcribed for orchestra -- I just know that you'd love it, Marco - the percussive slam practically blew me into the rear wall! :eek:
Big and bold, would be the summary review, I think.
We didn't play that much vinyl, and none that I was familiar with, so I can't really comment beyond that. I'd meant to take some of my own LPs along, but forgot!
StanleyB
14-10-2012, 20:33
I was hoping you guys might have found the time to try the amps out with the Bushmaster somewhere in the chain.
jandl100
14-10-2012, 20:35
I was hoping you guys might have found the time to try the amps out with the Bushmaster somewhere in the chain.
Well, Martin has one on his hifi rack for his "secondary digital sources", and he says he enjoys it very much, but he is utterly devoted to his Ayre CDP so it just didn't happen. I agree it would have been interesting.
Sorry Stan - the problem is that the Ayre only has AES digital output, which I can't use into the Bushmaster. My Pioneer Blu-ray deck is capable as a transport, but not in the same league.
StanleyB
14-10-2012, 20:41
I have now removed him from my possible beta taster list.
jandl100
14-10-2012, 20:44
Sorry Stan - the problem is that the Ayre only has AES digital output, which I can't use into the Bushmaster. My Pioneer Blu-ray deck is capable as a transport, but not in the same league.
Aha - so there is a techie reason as well - I have to confess that I didn't even pluck up the courage to ask for the BM to be played!
Martin likes his Ayre cdp - end of! :eyebrows:
... I've a sneaking suspicion I might have preferred the Bushmaster! :whistle:
Reid Malenfant
14-10-2012, 20:45
I have now removed him from my possible beta taster list.
I'm not sure they'd taste very nice Stan ;) Maybe with some ketchup :D
Sorry fella, I just couldn't help myself :doh:
StanleyB
14-10-2012, 21:12
I'm not sure they'd taste very nice Stan ;) Maybe with some ketchup :D
Life is not worth living if you haven't tried a good rum yet. Ketchup is so common :ner:.
Yes, but when licked off of nipples, it takes on a certain je ne sais quoi :eyebrows:
Marco.
StanleyB
14-10-2012, 21:20
Yes, but when licked off of nipples, it takes on a certain je ne sais quoi :eyebrows:
You are a well travelled man of the world I see ;).
You know it, girlfriend! :bum:
Marco.
Sounds like a great day the Ayre is really nice and Martin speakers are very good; well his whole system is pretty special
Glad you both had a great day
Capable of hugely explosive dynamics - Martin played a Decca LP of an Albeniz solo guitar piece, transcribed for orchestra -- I just know that you'd love it, Marco - the percussive slam practically blew me into the rear wall! :eek:
Big and bold, would be the summary review, I think.
Yup - that sounds like Martin's Techy... :exactly:
Is that recording included on your play list? I'd like to try and get it, as it sounds right up my dual-carriageway!
We didn't play that much vinyl, and none that I was familiar with, so I can't really comment beyond that. I'd meant to take some of my own LPs along, but forgot!
And with all that lurvely Shossy, too! Tut, tut.... ;)
Marco.
Is that recording included on your play list? I'd like to try and get it, as it sounds right up my dual-carriageway!
Yes Marco - it's the Albeniz Suite Espanola conducted and transcribed by Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgos with the New Philharmonia on Decca. It's the only recording of that version of the piece. Absolutely stunning dynamics and enjoyable to listen to. Unfortunately bloody hard to get on vinyl although I found a new copy in the US.
http://www.audiophileusa.com/covers400water/4610.jpg
jandl100
15-10-2012, 06:51
I'd like to expand a bit on this statement of mine ....
Martin likes his Ayre cdp - end of! :eyebrows:
... I've a sneaking suspicion I might have preferred the Bushmaster! :whistle:
It's down to musical choices and tastes, and their inevitable impact on the way we build our audio systems.
Martin and I have a lot of overlap in musical taste - classical plays an important part for both of us. For that you need wide dynamic range (classical needs that more than any other music, imo), tonal fullness, wide frequency response.
My listening is 95/5 classical/other. Martin's is more like 50/50, he told me.
In order to excel at "proper music" as Macca called it (viz. non-classical :ner:) you need a large dollop of pace'n'rhythm. And its the Big Picture of the overall dynamic envelope of the music that is more important - micro-details can be sacrificed a little to achieve that, and that works well. Now, the tonal fullness and wide frequency response requirements of classical are kind of at odds with that. The upper bass where a lot of the power of classical resides just kind of gets in the way of the pace'n'rhythm thang --- hence the Flat Earth approach of olde, where upper bass was deliberately thinned out to make rock music and similar sound better and to get those feet a'tapping.
Martin needs to strike a balance between the two approaches, as he wants his system to excel at both Mahler and Van Morrison. That's a tricky one, imo, and some degree of compromise is necessary. In my opinion, for CD playback that compromise comes in the form of his Ayre C-5XE MP CD player. I've had a lower model (the still very highly rated Ayre CX-7E) and it was a pure out&out, Flat Earth, pace&rhythm machine - it couldn't do decent classical to save its life! :nono:. Martin's super-duper Ayre CDP is much, much better and more even handed than that, but it still retains some of the traits.
Once again in my opinion ;), Martin sacrifices a little tonal richness and inner micro-detail of a Mahler symphony or, crucially, a Shostakovich violin concerto in order for "proper music" to come gloriously alive in his living room.
The Ayre is a fine machine, but now and then I felt it short-changed the emotional charge of classical - this was especially noticeable in the 'suspended in time' slow movement of aforesaid Shostakovich violin concerto; there is a deep, tragic sadness to the music that can be totally overwhelming - in Martin's system I admired the music, in my own system with my Bushmaster DAC, I am often moved to tears. That just didn't happen at Martin's place.
Personally, I think the approach taken by the Bushmaster DAC is more even-handed, and allows the emotional charge of the music to come through better, but you do have to sacrifice (just a little) the pace&rhythm thang that the £6k Ayre does so well.
____
Jerry retires to his bunker and prepares for the incoming barrage .... :eyebrows:
Personally, I think the approach taken by the Bushmaster DAC is more even-handed, and allows the emotional charge of the music to come through better, but you do have to sacrifice (just a little) the pace&rhythm thang that the £6k Ayre does so well.
Actually, Jerry, I'm not going to disagree with you as much as you think. You've hit the nail on the head when you say that any system is a fine balancing act and I am aware that the needs of rock and classical are quite different. Classical does indeed need a wide dynamic range and tonal colour while rock needs clout and bass heft. Both need good leading edges if they are to approach a truly realistic reproduction. My system is necessarily a compromise for clasical, rock and my other important genre of female voice.
The Ayre and Bushmaster certainly approach things from different quarters: the Ayre, as you say, excels in rock and also female voice. The Bushmaster has a gentler presentation with rich tonal colour, almost as deep bass but most certainly does not have the clout and structural power of the Ayre. Now I cannot say exactly where the performance limits of the BM are since I only use it with Blu-ray, Sky HD and Touch sources. If anyone can tell me how to adapt the Ayre's AES digital output for co-ax input then I could try a fairer test by using the Ayre as a transport.
So in summary, I do think the Ayre is just about the best all-in-one player for my needs (and remember it plays SACD and DVD-A too) and is likely to be my final disc spinner. However, I will look to harnessing the qualities of the Bushmaster in a better way if I can overcome the previously mentioned AES digital output quandary.
jandl100
15-10-2012, 07:13
If anyone can tell me how to adapt the Ayre's AES digital output for co-ax input then I could try a fairer test by using the Ayre as a transport.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XLR-3-Pin-Female-Socket-To-RCA-Phono-Socket-Adaptor-/200608088501?pt=UK_Musical_Cables_Leads_Connectors&hash=item2eb52c81b5
OK, it's not ideal, but it'll give you some idea. ime, they can work surprisingly well!
Is that all it takes, Jerry? Is the digital format the same as S/PDIF?
jandl100
15-10-2012, 07:16
Classical does indeed need a wide dynamic range and tonal colour while rock needs clout and bass heft. Both need good leading edges if they are to approach a truly realistic reproduction.
Yup - and that's why we both enjoyed the Chord and the Parasound amps so much - they both nail the leading edge thing, don't they!
jandl100
15-10-2012, 07:17
Is that all it takes, Jerry? Is the digital format the same as S/PDIF?
Yup, that'll work fine - been there, done that! :)
... make sure you get the male/female thing right. ;)
Reid Malenfant
17-10-2012, 19:42
Buying one now!
If that is going to be used for a digital connection I'd be very careful.
It's not as easy as shorting the cold wire to ground, as the AES/EBU is balanced & unlike the audio side of things there is no opamp to rebalance the thing & make it work properly. While it might work, it certainly won't sound as good as a balanced to unbalanced transformer which would give a proper impedance match.
Just remember that if that is what you intend to use it for you'll be shorting one of the outputs (or inputs) directly to ground, depending on the topology whatever is feeding a digital signal may, or may not take to kindly to it.
The only way of doing a proper job is a small ferrite transformer, I have the very same sitting inside a phono plug myself..
Thanks, Mark. I've just checked the Ayre user manual and it says to use an XLR to phono socket adapter, of exactly the type I have ordered, in order to connect to some external DACs. So it looks like the balanced output circuit won't mind having the -ve output clamped to earth.
Reid Malenfant
18-10-2012, 18:51
Good to hear that, I still prefer to use a transformer though, that way you don't mess up the transmission impedance :)
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