DIY Cable help please!

[bernie1]

Hi, I'd like to build an interconnect, it's my first attempt, I'd like to try silver, what's the best simple way, just straight conductors, or a Litz weave, if so, how do I go about shielding?

Bernie

[YNWaN]

The simple answer is that here is no 'best' way Bernie. For every manufacturer that strongly extols the virtue of one type of construction there is a host of others equally adamant about a completely different architecture. There isn't even any kind of agreement on whether shielding is a good thing (however, I would say it is).

Not much help (but true), sorry.

Edit: what I would say is that you should use good plugs - if you build an all silver cable (though personally I prefer copper), I would definitely use the Eichmann silver Bullet RCA's.

[bernie1]

Thanks,
It's pretty much what I thought, why do you prefer copper, does it give more bass weight than silver?
I take your point about the plugs though, I was going to use the eichmanns. or WBT

Bernie

[YNWaN]

The WBT's are a fine piece of kit - but I actually prefer the Eichmann's.

Well, I haven't compared every silver cable by a long stretch; but those that I have listened to have not really lit my fire, finding their (often) brightly lit upper mid (and slightly recessed low bass) a bit contrived. However, I can easily see how, in a different system, one may feel quite differently about this.

To be honest, I think terms like 'more bass' over simplify the differences between cables. My experience is that there is rarely outright 'more' of anything, in terms of quantity, between cables; it is more often more a case of perspective, as if the focus of the sound has shifted from one aspect to another.

[MCRU]

For DIY the eichmann's are far easier to solder and sound just as good or better than WBT IMO too.

[YNWaN]

If you do a search on the forum you will find a lot of info on this forum regarding cables; I have reviewed some cables and connectors and Marco recently started a lengthy thread about silver arm cables (and later interconnects).

[YNWaN]

For DIY the eichmann's are far easier to solder and sound just as good or better than WBT IMO too.

I have read people complaining that they have found the Eichmann's difficult to solder - but this isn't my experience at all. Admittedly you can't be heavy handed and soak the whole thing with loads of heat - but then you don't need to either. Regarding their sound, some people prefer the WBT's, but I definitely prefer the 'sound' of the Eichmann's (both the silver and copper options).

[Reffc]

The simple answer is that here is no 'best' way Bernie. For every manufacturer that strongly extols the virtue of one type of construction there is a host of others equally adamant about a completely different architecture. There isn't even any kind of agreement on whether shielding is a good thing (however, I would say it is).

Not much help (but true), sorry.

Edit: what I would say is that you should use good plugs - if you build an all silver cable (though personally I prefer copper), I would definitely use the Eichmann silver Bullet RCA's.

Actually, speak to any qualified audio engineer and you will likely (universally) get a similar response. It's the marketeers and sellers that all have different opinions. Most audio engineers I know all sing from the same hymn sheet. Generally, shielding IS good, S/N can be influenced (SE) by a low ground impedance path and generally, try and keep capacitance low (depends on application). The basics are that simple.

As someone who does this for a living, I would advise the first timer who wants to build a decent performing IC to buy simple and inexpensive coaxial cable (inner signal conductor and outer shield) and some basic connectors which are easy to use like Neutriks. I would not advise using the rather expensive Bullet plugs or similar unless you are confident in your soldering skills first.

[YNWaN]

Well, not surprisingly, I wasn't referring to the opinions of electrical engineers, but to manufacturers, a quite different thing. Speak to most electrical 'engineers' and they will indeed sing from the same hymn sheet - that particular hymn being that cables make no difference in an audio system and certainly the electrical difference between silver and copper cables is so marginal as to be inconsequential.

Personally, I would agree that shielding is good and so is low capacitance. However, these goals are achieved by a large number of cables that are otherwise quite different. Having said that, there are certainly cables made that have no shielding and/or reasonably high capacitance.

[walpurgis]

In my experience copper is generally, but not exclusively, the way to go. The results you get with copper or silver depend on the components they are used with and the overall balance if the system. I have some Audio Note and Cardas copper interconnects that give superb results on the turntable side of the system, but also use litz woven silver cables that are very lucid and go between my CD and DAC. Horses for courses I suppose.

[Reffc]

Actually Mark MOST audio engineers I know (ok...all 4 of them) ALL agree that cables do make a difference. The issue of materials differences I also believe is also largely misunderstood by many forum discussions too. Changing the electrical properties and sizing of conductors and their dielectrics can affect things like phase-shift and similar properties, but it's often easier to talk about the conductor without understanding the relationship with the other parts of a design so very understandable that people refer to silver and copper as sometimes sounding different.

There are plenty of cables which are unshielded and high capacitance but that doesn't make it good design practice (its not) but the impacts of those designs is largely dependant upon the usage environments and circuit properties being connected. Thats why some people will find them perfectly acceptable and decent sounding in their systems whilst others will not.

It's a combination of the circuit properties and environment IMHO that affect how some cables will affect the sound and this I guess is what is commonly referred to as "synergy".

All IMHO and IME

[Mr Kipling]

Hi Bernie,

Here is one man's cable journey:

http://www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm

One or two surprises (for me), including observations on shielding.

Have a look a the diy cables section at http://tnt-audio.com which might be of help to you.

Kind Regards,
Stephen

[bernie1]

Thanks, I think I might make a practice one in copper first, see how that sounds on my system, and take it from there?

[Rare Bird]

Internet seems to be a bit short on how to construct your own interconnects, it's easy but a lot of people struggle, Qwazzi Balance especially..

[rusty bearing]

I used Klotz AC110 cable with neutrik plugs. Its cheap enough that you won't worry if you muck one up and doesn't sound to bad either.........probably not on a par with some cables but i cant bring myself to part with that much money!
I think a pair of mine used to cost me @ £8-10.00 to make.

[bernie1]

Thanks, that sounds interesting, how did they sound?
Anyone got any info on the best place to source Oxygen Free Copper (OFC)?

[YNWaN]

Internet seems to be a bit short on how to construct your own interconnects,..

Erm..it's not you know; have a look at DIY Audio. There are also quite a lot of 'cable kits' one can buy.

[Rare Bird]

O ok it was just a quick trawl through see if i could see anything for Bernie, not much hence my assumption their was'nt mucchio..

[rusty bearing]

The Klotz sounds very good to my ears, instruments are well defined, bass and top end certainly not lacking. Using them them on 2xTT's, DAC etc.I prefer them to other cables I've tried from Chord, Black Rhodium and others.
At what they cost to build there's nowt to lose really:)

[Freddypipsqueek]

For the wire & plugs try HIFI Collective - www.hificollective.co.uk/

The Mundorf stuff - Mundorf 3 x 0.5m 99%silver/1%gold twist cable SGW305 - is very good but expensive. This is my first choice for important internal wiring. Use one for live and the other 2 for neutral to getting shielding. It can be a little bright.

Alternatively try the pink stuff below it marked - Silver Plated Copper Screened wire. I have used the pink stuff on headphones and amps and found it quite good (& cheap).

The best interconnects I have made used the Duelund silver foil but they only need to be short.

As a start I would try the Neutrik plugs on this page - http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/rca_plugs.html. I don't think plugs are that important and you have to think about the sockets as well when you go boutique.

I prefer WBTs for soldering - the Eichmanns have plastic bodies - but it was along time ago and I'm better with the iron now.

[bernie1]

Thanks guys,
I'm over the moon that you all took the trouble to help me out and give me your advice, plenty of leads to keep me going!
Bernie

[rusty bearing]

Hi fi Collective are very good but I think expensive for some bits. I got cable from http://www.studiospares.com/page/home/
The Klotz comes under guitar cable....
Plugs from CPC 'cos they are just up the road

[brian2957]

Hi fi Collective are very good but I think expensive for some bits. I got cable from http://www.studiospares.com/page/home/
The Klotz comes under guitar cable....
Plugs from CPC 'cos they are just up the road

As you say Mike , the AC110 is very good cable indeed for the price and very easy to work with .

[Rare Bird]

I think i might try some of that as i need a couple of 3m leads that would otherwise cost me a fortune to buy that length. I have used Klotz before when i used to have a synth studio so i know how nice, flexible & easy to strip it is...

[DiveDeepDog]

Its funny this has come up, I've just made a cable with Klotz(microphone ) cable.

Its between Avondale 102, and mono 110's, 4pin din to phono's (I hate soldering dins!!) and an immediate improvement over std Flashback cable.

My only gripe is Audiospares is 2 miles away from me, but won't allow me to collect :doh:

Van damme XKE is also on my list to build my own interconnects, and tonearm lead.

[Reffc]

For the wire & plugs try HIFI Collective - www.hificollective.co.uk/

The Mundorf stuff - Mundorf 3 x 0.5m 99%silver/1%gold twist cable SGW305 - is very good but expensive. This is my first choice for important internal wiring. Use one for live and the other 2 for neutral to getting shielding. It can be a little bright.

Alternatively try the pink stuff below it marked - Silver Plated Copper Screened wire. I have used the pink stuff on headphones and amps and found it quite good (& cheap).

The best interconnects I have made used the Duelund silver foil but they only need to be short.

As a start I would try the Neutrik plugs on this page - http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/rca_plugs.html. I don't think plugs are that important and you have to think about the sockets as well when you go boutique.

I prefer WBTs for soldering - the Eichmanns have plastic bodies - but it was along time ago and I'm better with the iron now.

That's where you would be very mistaken ;) Plugs are very important. You get what you pay for up to a point, but try the same (decent) cable with a variety of plug designs and quality and you'll soon realise just how important that the plugs (and decent soldering skills) are.

[rusty bearing]

That's where you would be very mistaken ;) Plugs are very important. You get what you pay for up to a point, but try the same (decent) cable with a variety of plug designs and quality and you'll soon realise just how important that the plugs (and decent soldering skills) are.

I'd agree with that. I've used plugs at around £1 each and found the fit and manufacturing quality to be pretty poor:(. The WBT locking type are beautifully made and fit superbly but at a price:eek:.
I stick with Neutrik as frankly they're bloody cheap and do the job. My kit, while its pretty good to me probably isn't in the bracket where plugs show a huge difference in the sound quality.
So why do I get this urge to try some Eichmann Bullets:scratch:?

[YNWaN]

I would second Paul's post above; in my experience plugs can make a significant difference.

[Freddypipsqueek]

I haven't had the money to do a real test. I have WBTs on my headphone amp and do rate them but at a price. 4 plugs (even s/h) can be £40 and with sockets to match over £100. That's serious money if you are new to DIY cables and are learning the soldering skills. When I was making up cables it was to get a good sound at a realistic price and I think the neutrik plugs are a good starting point.

[rusty bearing]

Plus the satisfaction that comes with making something for yourself. This is why men have sheds after all:)

[RochaCullen]

Hi Bernie,

I've just purchased a number of items to make some new cables. Like yourself I was a bit overwhelmed by the number of trends out there, and I tried a number of different cable construction types, from silver in ptfe braided with supper dupper RCAs, to normal copper cable and connectors.

My advice is, like a number of other folks, don't go too mad to start with, but buy good quality copper cable and connectors. A resource I have found, which is based in canada, but which is very very reasonable is takefiveaudio.com, and they deliver internationally.

The majority of my cables are constructed using Neotech cable and cardas plugs:

Cable: http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=887
Connectors: http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=420

These items are very high quality and go together well; however, the connectors are not easy to work with. To start with, I might recommend the following, which I am working with at the moment:

Cable: http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=329
Connector: http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=405

The connector is a perfect fit for the cable as both are 6mm. The connector is brass based, so you could spend a bit more money and get some copper based connectors. The connector listed is however on sale and very good value, plus it is solderless, so the pin has a screw to ensure contact, which relieves you of having to get our the soldering iron. A major bonus for a novice.

Hope this helps,

Nathan

[bernie1]

Hi Nathan, Thanks, I'll check out those links, I'd also come to the conclusion not to go too mad to start with...
Regards Bernie