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FHHISAT
12-10-2012, 07:37
Audio snobs -Hear my name and tremble!

I am come become sense, the destroyer of audiophilia!

I love good music. I enjoy hearing good music being reproduced through a simple, quality system.

I do not believe in the audiophile myth that inexpensive = low quality. Over the last 60+ years all forms of electronic systems (TV's, radios, computers etc) have gotten smaller & cheaper and have all the while increased in the quality of the end result. So why is this not considered to be the case when it comes to music reproduction? Why MUST a good Hi-Fi system cost £1000s?

Simple answer: Unscrupulous marketing & snobbery.

Not to say that the search for the ultimate sound cant be an enjoyable pastime/passion/obsession in itself, as long as you don't forget to listen to the music once in a while, and not just to the sound of your system.

I myself am a tweaker. I tweak therefore I am. I enjoy experimenting with stuff. Whether or not it yields a change/improvement -I like to play.


Current system:
Custom built media centre running windows 7 Home Prem
Flac files ripped using DBPoweramp played using JRiver in WASAPI Event Style.
HOT AUDIO USB DAC WOW http://www.hotaudio.com/store/
Topping TP20 Tripath 2020 Amp (Formally Pioneer 300r Precision which was stolen from me by some conscienceless Indian giver)
B&W 601 S2 Bookself speakers on stands.

Perceived improvements are often just that -perceived by our highly subjective nature. "Improvements" are often just variations of "different".

END OF LINE.

synsei
12-10-2012, 07:55
Greetings program and welcome to the game grid... Er, I mean AoS... ;)

glenann
12-10-2012, 08:02
Audio snobs -Hear my name and tremble!

I am come become sense, the destroyer of audiophilia!

I love good music. I enjoy hearing good music being reproduced through a simple, quality system.

I do not believe in the audiophile myth that inexpensive = low quality. Over the last 60+ years all forms of electronic systems (TV's, radios, computers etc) have gotten smaller & cheaper and have all the while increased in the quality of the end result. So why is this not considered to be the case when it comes to music reproduction? Why MUST a good Hi-Fi system cost £1000s?

Simple answer: Unscrupulous marketing & snobbery.

Not to say that the search for the ultimate sound cant be an enjoyable pastime/passion/obsession in itself, as long as you don't forget to listen to the music once in a while, and not just to the sound of your system.

I myself am a tweaker. I tweak therefore I am. I enjoy experimenting with stuff. Whether or not it yields a change/improvement -I like to play.


Current system:
Custom built media centre running windows 7 Home Prem
Flac files ripped using DBPoweramp played using JRiver in WASAPI Event Style.
HOT AUDIO USB DAC WOW http://www.hotaudio.com/store/
Topping TP20 Tripath 2020 Amp (Formally Pioneer 300r Precision which was stolen from me by some conscienceless Indian giver)
B&W 601 S2 Bookself speakers on stands.

Perceived improvements are often just that -perceived by our highly subjective nature. "Improvements" are often just variations of "different".

END OF LINE.

WOW.... not a bad introduction from a Daniel Bedingfield lookalike! I do resent the Indian Giver name... even though it's true..:ner:

realysm42
12-10-2012, 08:39
Hello and welcome.

One mans different may be anothers improvement; the circular argument of the opinion.

FHHISAT
12-10-2012, 08:40
Greetings program and welcome to the game grid... Er, I mean AoS... ;)

Excellent! I do like it when obscure film references get noticed.

You are indeed a person of considerable taste:thumbsup:

FHHISAT
12-10-2012, 08:43
WOW.... not a bad introduction from a Daniel Bedingfield lookalike! I do resent the Indian Giver name... even though it's true..:ner:

Die :chainsaw:

FHHISAT
12-10-2012, 08:47
One mans different may be anothers improvement; the circular argument of the opinion.

Indeed:whistle:

glenann
12-10-2012, 08:49
Die :chainsaw:

Charming... :lol:

synsei
12-10-2012, 08:57
GNfs6v7i7eY

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071114175846/tron/images/thumb/5/57/Reco.PNG/250px-Reco.PNG

FHHISAT
12-10-2012, 09:04
GNfs6v7i7eY

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071114175846/tron/images/thumb/5/57/Reco.PNG/250px-Reco.PNG

Why does nothing make me feel like this once did :wheniwasaboy:

synsei
12-10-2012, 09:13
I know what you mean. I remember watching this at the pictures with my jaw on the floor... :eyebrows:


You've enjoyed all the power you've been given, haven't you? I wonder how you'd take to working in a pocket calculator.

Crash Tested
12-10-2012, 18:59
What are the acoustic's like down there in "Hell Heart" not so good I should think... However they probably sell cheap wire coat hangers for speaker cable, which should keep your system sounding as good as any in the real world...

BTW... As you seem to have an extensive, almost encyclopedic knowledge of how to put together a seriously good system on a shoestring, how about sharing with us your hifi history.... If you've got one... How many silver wired systems have you actually listened too for comparison to the thrupence ha'penny marvel that sits in your living room...

Could it be that you spend all your time trawling through the nay sayers forums looking for any obscure blind test that proves once and for all that the Emperor has no clothes....

Good to here from you.... My Brother... :brainfart:

FHHISAT
13-10-2012, 09:28
How about sharing with us your hifi history.... If you've got one... How many silver wired systems have you actually listened too for comparison to the thrupence ha'penny marvel that sits in your living room...

Thus entereth the snob.

Notice the dig at my "thrupence ha'penny marvel". I've not spent £1000s so it MUST be rubbish. Just because I'm not taken in by the delusion that silver speaker cables terminated with Rhodium plated banana plugs MUST improve the sound: "I mean, how could they not? -They're so expensive!".

Never mind that the idea that stringing "Audiophile quality" cables between the standard 10 gauge copper wire/copper pcb wafer inside the amp and the standard copper/tin/polycarbonate materials that make up the crossover inside any given speaker could possibly make the slightest bit of difference is just a little silly.

If we adhere to the logical rule that a signal path is only as good as it's weakest link then what's going to happen to whatever magical audio properties that your silver cables have "preserved/added" as soon as the signal hits the thin tin legs of the crossover's first capacitor?

If you have an argument to make that can exist outside the bubble of "I can tell the difference because my ears are golden" then I am, as always willing to be contradicted :D

MartinT
13-10-2012, 09:58
Why MUST a good Hi-Fi system cost £1000s?

Khan lover, eh? So what did you think of the Star Trek reboot?

As for hi-fi having to cost £1000s, it isn't the case that all expensive hi-fi is good, however the unavoidable truth is that top quality components and build quality come at high cost, as does small scale manufacture. There is a limit, though, and five-figure components have a job justifying their existence.

Marco
13-10-2012, 10:01
Welcome to AoS, Noonian :)

However, guys (Carlton and you), I really don't want to see any more of the confrontational exchanges, such as has just been witnessed, otherwise they will be binned and both of you will be on a week's ban.

We have no tolerance whatsoever for that sort of argumentative nonsense on AoS, where both high-end and budget systems are welcomed and discussed throughout the forum.

I trust that I've made myself clear!

Marco.

MartinT
13-10-2012, 10:33
Oops, missed that exchange. Not cool, guys :peace:

glenann
13-10-2012, 11:15
Welcome to AoS, Noonian :)

However, guys (Carlton and you), I really don't want to see any more of the confrontational exchanges, such as has just been witnessed, otherwise they will be binned and both of you will be on a week's ban.

We have no tolerance whatsoever for that sort of argumentative nonsense on AoS, where both high-end and budget systems are welcomed and discussed throughout the forum.

I trust that I've made myself clear!

Marco.

Hi Marco, I know what they're posts seem like. But I assume you realise that they are the very best of friends. You should see how they wind each other up in fantasy football! It really is innocent banter, but I realise where you're coming from and where it could end up... I'll have a word and bang there heads together... The plebs!

FHHISAT
13-10-2012, 11:30
:uhho: Many apologies for any ruffled feathers.

As Glenann said above what has been said between me and CrashTested, although written entirely deadpan is with tongues firmly in cheeks.

In future we will keep our vitriolic banter to the fantasy football forum.

When here we will remember to remove our sandals, for we are on holy ground :eyebrows:

FHHISAT
13-10-2012, 11:44
Khan lover, eh? So what did you think of the Star Trek reboot?

As for hi-fi having to cost £1000s, it isn't the case that all expensive hi-fi is good, however the unavoidable truth is that top quality components and build quality come at high cost, as does small scale manufacture. There is a limit, though, and five-figure components have a job justifying their existence.


1/ I thought it was TOP DRAW! The characters were perfectly cast, and the dialogue well written. After years of 'star trek by the numbers' being churned out, this movie brought back the magic.

2/ In truth, banter aside, I'm entirely in agreement with your summation of the world of HI-FI. I just feel that the standard at which you can say that you've got a 'capable' system is a lot less expensive than many would lead you to believe. Not to say that I believe my system couldn't benefit from a little more spending on it...:eyebrows:

synsei
13-10-2012, 11:46
Here's one for ST-TOS fans, it's a bit of a giggle ;)

j9i9N-Ez5Y8

synsei
13-10-2012, 11:51
Back to reality, I totted up what I have spent on my system over the last couple of years and was pleasantly surprised to discover that it comes in at just under 1500 quid, which aint too shabby considering :cool:

Marco
13-10-2012, 12:00
Hi glenann,

What's your proper first name, matey? We need names on profiles, so please add yours. I ain't referring to you as "Nobody"! ;)


Hi Marco, I know what they're posts seem like. But I assume you realise that they are the very best of friends. You should see how they wind each other up in fantasy football!


How may I assume what isn't obvious - was this relationship mentioned somewhere already on AoS? If so, I haven't seen it.

Anyway, friendly banter is welcome here, but derogatory references to people's systems, whether hi-end or budget, is extremely frowned upon.

As you were, lads! :cool:

Marco.

FHHISAT
13-10-2012, 12:03
Here's one for ST-TOS fans, it's a bit of a giggle ;)

j9i9N-Ez5Y8

I LOVE these "Hitler reaction" movies. Although this is one of the better ones :lol:

synsei
13-10-2012, 12:09
I am not at all anal about the Star Trek franchise incidentally, I love it all, even the JJ Abrams movie and it's fast and loose treatment of the ST timeline. I thought Zachary Quinto played Spock particularly well tbh :)

FHHISAT
13-10-2012, 12:26
Agreed. I'm not at all precious about these things. I only care about good characters, well written, well produced. Quinto avoided falling into the trap of depicting his Vulcan character as being quietly annoyed at his human comrades, a crime other actors have been guilty of over the years when playing Vulcans. Instead he correctly depicted Spock as 'rising above' the irrational emotions of those around him, just as Nimoy had done before him.

Crash Tested
13-10-2012, 12:52
Hi Marco

I can assure you that the above posts were not "confrontational" in any way, and were in good humour. I can also assure you that Noonian and myself have been very good friends for many years. It was nothing more than light hearted banter... We always enjoy pulling each others leg about all things Hifi...

However... If my comments upset anyone on the forum let me know, and I will speak to them and apologize.... :scratch:

YNWaN
13-10-2012, 12:58
To be honest, I think the whole premise of this thread is fatally flawed as whilst it appears to confront the idea of hi-fi snobbery it is, itself, based on an adherence to (and an acceptance of) inverted snobbery.

So called 'budget systems can sound very good, but this is in no way a given and, by the same token, a system built from budget (or vintage) components can under perform as much as any. Of course, the same applies to, so called, high end components. However, the fact remains that to thoroughly realise design concepts takes money and a level of complexity that often means the final result falls outside of the 'budget' category; whether these design concepts are worth pursuing so assiduously is another matter altogether. In addition, one should avoid the temptation to generalise with regard to price.

It is certainly true that the price of some components owes more to marketing than material cost; but it is also true that many components represent a significant level of financial commitment by the manufacturers and this must be recouped.

Marco
13-10-2012, 13:04
Hi Marco

I can assure you that the above posts were not "confrontational" in any way, and were in good humour. I can also assure you that Noonian and myself have been very good friends for many years. It was nothing more than light hearted banter... We always enjoy pulling each others leg about all things Hifi...

However... If my comments upset anyone on the forum let me know, and I will speak to them and apologize.... :scratch:

Don't worry, Carlton, it's sorted now. That's the trouble though with taking banter from elsewhere onto a platform where you're unknown, and thus said banter might not be appreciated by others, simply because to them it doesn't look like banter.

I had no way of knowing that you two were very good friends, other than telepathy! ;)

Marco.

Marco
13-10-2012, 13:06
To be honest, I think the whole premise of this thread is fatally flawed as whilst it appears to confront the idea of hi-fi snobbery it is, itself, based on an adherence to (and an acceptance of) inverted snobbery. So called 'budget systems can sound very good, but this is in no way a given and, by the same token, a system built from budget (or vintage) components can under perform as much as any. Of course, the same applies to, so called, high end components. However, the fact remains that to thoroughly realise design concepts takes money and a level of complexity that often means the final result falls outside of the 'budget' category; whether these design concepts are worth pursuing so assiduously is another matter altogether. In addition, one should avoid the temptation to generalise with regard to price. It is certainly true that the price of some components owes more to marketing than material cost; but it is also true that many components represent a significant level of financial commitment by the manufacturers and this must be recouped.

Spot on! However, some paragraphing would've been nice... ;)

Marco.

synsei
13-10-2012, 13:07
Lighten up guys, it was never meant to be serious ;)

YNWaN
13-10-2012, 13:36
Spot on! However, some paragraphing would've been nice... ;)

Marco.

Done...hardly an epic though ;).

FHHISAT
13-10-2012, 14:19
I can see where you're coming from, but I cant say I entirely agree. I've not set my stall out as being 'the only way is budget'. I don't believed adherence to either extreme end of the spectrum is beneficial.

But I do believe in the law of diminishing returns: The more you spend the less of a difference it makes.

Just how far you need to go before you can enjoy listening to good music is at the heart of my point. Because, after all, is that not what it's all for?

Being a hifi enthusiast who likes all the gear is fine, but to maintain that all the gear needs to be acquired before you can claim to be a music lover is what I rail against (not that that's what you're saying. But some do). I may have the humblest of systems but that doesn't mean that I've never listened to music on a high end rig. I just found that my overall enjoyment of the music wasn't so greatly heightened considering the mammoth cost :)

END OF LINE

Alex_UK
13-10-2012, 19:37
Hi Noonian and welcome to the forum. Well I thoroughly enjoyed the banter - I figured at "Daniel Bedingfield lookalike" you guys probably knew each other - though you've learned that whilst we love banter, confrontation other than for the comedy effect isn't frequent here as we can't tell the difference! ;) That said, we're all big boys so I doubt you upset anyone!

I'm with you on the "music first" philosophy, and the law of diminishing returns does bite hard with hifi, IMHO... File Based Audio and DACs have done a lot to help get great quality for low cost on the source front, and these days the biggest difference is with speakers - and often there's no better or worse, just different...

Anyway - hope you enjoy AoS. :)

RichB
13-10-2012, 22:19
Hello from me,

Whilst there are certainly some amazing and pricey systems on here AoS is certainly no place for any snobbery, indeed we love a bargain right?

Cases in point include mini t amps, old celestions, Stan's DACs etc. All of which are firmly in the budget end but give amazing performance. Perhaps you can suspend some of your own prejudices, hang out a bit and maybe even get some great tips and cheap gear from the folks here.

FWIW I also run a hot audio dac as well as a rather more expensive one, I know which is better but neither are rubbish. Check my Signature mate, my study system cost around a ton to put together and I love it,but then I also love my main system which probably cost 20 times more than that.

Welcome aboard the good ship mate, play nice and be part of the crew. Together we'll all reach that promised land.

Rich

Rare Bird
13-10-2012, 22:28
Hi Marco

I can assure you that the above posts were not "confrontational" in any way, and were in good humour. I can also assure you that Noonian and myself have been very good friends for many years. It was nothing more than light hearted banter... We always enjoy pulling each others leg about all things Hifi...

However... If my comments upset anyone on the forum let me know, and I will speak to them and apologize.... :scratch:

Where about in Rotherham are you Carlton, im sadly there too :eyebrows:

FHHISAT
14-10-2012, 10:11
Thanks for the welcome fellas.

I'm starting to get the feel of this particular forum. I can see that it's an "audio angst" free zone. I like that.

I must just reiterate though that, although I have my opinions and that I like to have those opinions challenged in open debate, I dont take them or myself too seriously.

After all, it is ONLY hifi :ner:

I'll see you all anon :D

pete_mac
14-10-2012, 22:35
HOT AUDIO USB DAC WOW http://www.hotaudio.com/store/

Ah, I recently gave my old DAC WOW USB to a good friend after his HRT MusicStreamer II+ died. He absolutely loves it! Less detailed than the HRT, but more body, soul and substance. It has transformed the character of his system. Sensational bang-for-buck. :)

FHHISAT
14-10-2012, 23:42
G'day mate :eyebrows:

Must say I'm very pleased with it for the price I paid: £70 inc postage :D.

I especially love the "I'm blessed with a unique gift" blurb on the Hot Audio site.

I've always had a soft spot for eccentrics :mental: