View Full Version : Mana Acoustics Comeback?
I have a 4-tier Mana Reference stand on the way, should arrive tomorrow.
Check this listing out: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MANA-ACOUSTICS-WE-ARE-BACK-/130766762602?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Compact_Shelf_Ster eos&hash=item1e724e726a#ht_3770wt_1396
Thought some members would be interested.
Really good news.
Thanks for the info.
hifi_dave
13-10-2012, 18:55
There is a huge thread about this on A.N.Other forum. Not sure what the fuss was first time around but it's certainly stirred up a hornets' nest.
I have a 4-tier Mana Reference stand on the way, should arrive tomorrow.
Hi Neil,
Is this a brand new item that you've just ordered from the eBay shop you've linked to? As Dave mentions, there's some confusion elsewhere as to whether Mana have relaunched production of their stands or not.
What I don't understand, in terms of the thread on pfm, is why Les W (from Avondale), who claims to have spoken directly with John Watson, and from experience I know that they are old friends, has said that JW has categorically denied relaunching production of Mana Acoustics products, yet Les hasn't come back to explain what the listing on eBay is all about?
He must know, having spoken with John....
Also, has anyone tried contacting the eBay seller and asking him or her what's going on? It's all rather mysterious!
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
13-10-2012, 20:13
More to the point, what are North Wales Range Rover Spares doing selling them? :scratch:
:eyebrows:
Indeed. I originally presumed that he or she was a friend of John's, and was just helping him out, as John also lives on Anglesey... However, that would only make sense *if* what was being claimed (Mana being reintroduced) was true :confused:
Marco.
Hi Neil,
Is this a brand new item that you've just ordered from the eBay shop you've linked to? As Dave mentions, there's some confusion elsewhere as to whether Mana have relaunched production of their stands or not.
What I don't understand, in terms of the thread on pfm, is why Les W (from Avondale), who claims to have spoken directly with John Watson, and from experience I know that they are old friends, has said that JW has categorically denied relaunching production of Mana Acoustics products, yet Les hasn't come back to explain what the listing on eBay is all about?
He must know, having spoken with John....
Also, has anyone tried contacting the eBay seller and asking him or her what's going on? It's all rather mysterious!
Marco.
I fired off an email .. just to say hi assuming it was John.
Ali Tait
14-10-2012, 08:02
How much are the racks?
If the stands are going to be produced again, Ali, (which seems unlikely, otherwise why would Les lie, after having spoken with JW?) they'll not be cheap.
The significant factor is that it was suggested that new ones would be made from non-magnetic stainless steel (briefly used on the last ones made), which is much more expensive to produce than the usual angle-iron.
As a guide, when I bought my 6-tier stainless steel rack, just before Mana went bust, the retail price was £1600 (double the cost of the ordinary stuff)! Expensive, yes, but there are certainly much more expensive equipment supports made today, and not many I've heard get close to being as sonically effective.
Marco.
realysm42
14-10-2012, 09:42
I had a read of some of the thread on the other forum, but the gay in jokes made it hard to decipher; why's there such controvesy around the whole mana thing?
I was wondering that as well. I've never seen any Mana products but they seem to have gained mythical angel-dust status in some circles so I was interested to have a look at the two products on Ebay at the moment. Both appear to be well-made but straightforward steel frame units supported on spikes, with more spikes supporting glass shelves. Is that it, or am I missing something? Can't really see what's to stop anyone producing the same sort of thing.
hifi_dave
14-10-2012, 10:03
The first steel frame/spikes/board or glass frames I am aware of were produced by Sound Organisation, back in the early 80's. Since then, there have been hundreds of similar designs from many companies.
I think Mana's usp is their concept of 'stages' with multiple layers piled up on top of each other - each additional layer boosting the isolation provided.
I remember a demo I saw at a Manchester hi-fi show years ago where the LP12 was atop a pile so high it was almost at ceiling level (in a blacked-out room lit with lava lamps and oil projections, Underworld's 'Born Slippy' cranked up to 11, and some very suspicious 'sweet sickly' odours).
Cheers,
Keith
Hi Shane,
I've never seen any Mana products but they seem to have gained mythical angel-dust status in some circles so I was interested to have a look at the two products on Ebay at the moment. Both appear to be well-made but straightforward steel frame units supported on spikes, with more spikes supporting glass shelves. Is that it, or am I missing something?
Yup, quite a lot....
The (unique to Mana) successful interfacing of four materials: angle-iron, glass (that can be tuned to resonate at a particular frequency, with adhesive strips placed in the centre, to help facilitate this, along with spikes, placed underneath, used to 'tune' the glass), MDF and spikes, all of which combine (especially with the addition of further 'levels', known as 'Soundstages') to sink vibration to earth, via a highly resonant structure connecting vibrations to those parts that convert mechanical energy to heat (spike resting on wooden platform usually), thus (in theory) isolating any equipment placed on Mana racks from the effects of microphony and, in turn, significantly improving the sonic performance of said equipment.
That is the basic theory of the 'Mana effect' - and having used the stands for many years, I can say that the theory works very well in practice. No other glass/metal stands, in my experience, such as for example, the Sound Organisation ones Dave mentioned (or those from Target, Apollo, etc) produce the same sonic effect - and that's because all of those are totally different!
Can't really see what's to stop anyone producing the same sort of thing.
Absolutely nothing, now that the patent has long since expired. It's precisely the reason why I sold all my original angle-iron Mana years ago and replaced it with stainless steel clones (that perform significantly better), which I had made via a local metal fabricator, for a mere fraction of the price that they used to sell for :)
Marco.
chris@panteg
14-10-2012, 11:28
I think Mana's usp is their concept of 'stages' with multiple layers piled up on top of each other - each additional layer boosting the isolation provided.
I remember a demo I saw at a Manchester hi-fi show years ago where the LP12 was atop a pile so high it was almost at ceiling level (in a blacked-out room lit with lava lamps and oil projections, Underworld's 'Born Slippy' cranked up to 11, and some very suspicious 'sweet sickly' odours).
Cheers,
Keith
I remember a very similar demo at the 1990 penta show , I had a brief chat with John Watson, very friendly chap , didn't know what to make of it to be honest ? It was so loud ! And very bright with a slap you in the face presentation , I just found it too much for me .
I remember a very similar demo at the 1990 penta show , I just found it too much for me .
+1!
I have a CD Worldwide Ultimatum - Earl Grey, that was mastered by using half a million Mana Supports (well...quite a few stacks:D) There was a whole page article at the time in Hifi Choice showing the studio. It is a pretty in your face Drum and Bass style CD, good fun if you're in the mood.
I remember a very similar demo at the 1990 penta show , I had a brief chat with John Watson, very friendly chap , didn't know what to make of it to be honest ? It was so loud ! And very bright with a slap you in the face presentation , I just found it too much for me .
Ah yes, the infamous show at the Penta. I wasn't there, so can't comment. However, what I can say is that Mana most certainly doesn't make my system sound like that! :nono:
Marco.
chris@panteg
14-10-2012, 12:31
Ah yes, the infamous show at the Penta. I wasn't there, so can't comment. However, what I can say is that Mana most certainly doesn't make my system sound like that! :nono:
Marco.
That's good to know Marco , one of the good things about the Techie is it's not quite so sensitive as the Linn to what it's sat in on , though it still needs some care though .
The thing I remember about that mana dem was that Naim fans loved it ! Well most of em anyway , some were less than happy about the Avondale modded 250's or was it 135's ? , sacrilege :D
Hi Neil,
Is this a brand new item that you've just ordered from the eBay shop you've linked to? As Dave mentions, there's some confusion elsewhere as to whether Mana have relaunched production of their stands or not.
What I don't understand, in terms of the thread on pfm, is why Les W (from Avondale), who claims to have spoken directly with John Watson, and from experience I know that they are old friends, has said that JW has categorically denied relaunching production of Mana Acoustics products, yet Les hasn't come back to explain what the listing on eBay is all about?
He must know, having spoken with John....
Also, has anyone tried contacting the eBay seller and asking him or her what's going on? It's all rather mysterious!
Marco.
Hi Marco, just to clarify that I received a second-hand unit from a different eBay seller.
Cheers, dude. So the mystery continues.... :scratch:
Marco.
sq225917
15-10-2012, 20:25
Point of order.
Mana uses spikes and rigid materials, it does not isolate, it couples. There may be a case for calling the wall mounted stuff 'isolation' as they separate from the floor, but really they are just coupling to a greater mass.
Not a lot bugs me but this really does, coupling and isolation are the exact opposite of each other, please take the time to get it right.
I do like Mana, it looks purposeful.
Point of order.
Mana uses spikes and rigid materials, it does not isolate, it couples. There may be a case for calling the wall mounted stuff 'isolation' as they separate from the floor, but really they are just coupling to a greater mass.
Not a lot bugs me but this really does, coupling and isolation are the exact opposite of each other, please take the time to get it right.
I do like Mana, it looks purposeful.
I agree with this, and I also think that decoupling is the exact opposite of what Mana Acoustics intended to do. My system has retained all of its qualities since moving it onto a Mana 4-tier rack, but the sound boogies more and has a more live, fun quality to it. I find this interesting as Mana was and is particularly favoured by Naim fans.
My intuitive feelings are that that Mana sinks vibrations *out* of the equipment a lot more than other stands do (decoupling kills this), which might explain part of the so-called Mana effect. It is no illusion that I am cranking the music up a notch more now without fearing it's too loud for the neighbours. When I really crank it up the lower shelf does vibrate (not nearly as much as before), but the 2nd tier up I can't feel a thing when touching components, the glass etc. Maybe this is why the Mana Soundbase was created - to benefit the 1st tier.
What is also particularly interesting is that Alan Sircom as well as all major HiFi mags agreed that Mana offered a distinct upgrade - it isn't very often all of the mags agree, so there must be something in this?
My intuitive feelings are that that Mana sinks vibrations *out* of the equipment a lot more than other stands do (decoupling kills this), which might explain part of the so-called Mana effect.
I can only agree with you. Just to add that John Watson also re-set up my LP12 a few years ago. As he was doing this he stuck a few bits of of material onto the motor. When I asked what that was he said that it was the same stuff that the strips on the glass were made out of..that turned vibration into heat.
whatever it was, the re-jigged deck sounded superb...(especially when sat on its mana ref table :D)
I am a sceptic at heart with regard to audio, which is why I do actually blind test frequently. However I am very surprised that what I thought was a pretty looking rack at a price equivalent to a decent new 4-tier rack has given me what I'd expect from a component upgrade rather than ancillary upgrade. There is no deep need for analysis like with cables, this Mana stand has blown me away....
Hi Simon,
Point of order.
Mana uses spikes and rigid materials, it does not isolate, it couples. There may be a case for calling the wall mounted stuff 'isolation' as they separate from the floor, but really they are just coupling to a greater mass.
Absolutely. However, the net effect is that Mana 'isolates' (read as protects) equipment from the harmful sonic effects of vibration/microphony; it most certainly doesn't couple it to such! :eyebrows:
That is what I was referring to earlier. What you're describing (correctly) is the process which leads to creating the net effect.
Marco.
sq225917
17-10-2012, 10:37
Protect would be a much more satisfactory term.
Sure, let's go with 'protect'. You know where I'm coming from :)
Marco.
Avondale Audio
23-10-2012, 15:55
Hi Neil,
Is this a brand new item that you've just ordered from the eBay shop you've linked to? As Dave mentions, there's some confusion elsewhere as to whether Mana have relaunched production of their stands or not.
What I don't understand, in terms of the thread on pfm, is why Les W (from Avondale), who claims to have spoken directly with John Watson, and from experience I know that they are old friends, has said that JW has categorically denied relaunching production of Mana Acoustics products, yet Les hasn't come back to explain what the listing on eBay is all about?
He must know, having spoken with John....
Also, has anyone tried contacting the eBay seller and asking him or her what's going on? It's all rather mysterious!
Marco.
Hi Guys,
Having just spoken again with John Watson, he's confirmed that he has no plans to resurrect Mana.
The chap selling the bits on eBay has been questioned by John and has offered John an apology for
any misapprehension his auctions have provoked.
John would also like me to remind the assembled multitude that he retains title to the Mana tradename
and to the description "The Mana Effect'.
That's all I know folks.
Hi Les,
Thanks for the info - much appreciated. Look out for a PM from me in 2 secs!
Marco.
realysm42
23-10-2012, 17:43
That guys a joker, making the ebay advert the way he did; obvious troll is obvious.
Still a bit disappointing though.. would have been good to see John back in the business. However I suspect he would rather be out of it.
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