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foxysounds
13-02-2009, 09:55
My listening room doubles as my study and tripples as my home studio (excuse me adapting the English language as I go along) and it's a small room to start with so it's pretty cramped and I'm getting fed up with having to lean over my hi-fi and my 19" equipment rack whenever I want to get into the bottom drawer of my filing cabinet so one solution I'm considering is to save space by putting my hifi on the wall.

My turntable is already on the wall courtesy of a shelf made by The Sound Organisation (it's the metal type with adjustable, spikes supporting a wooden plinth). The rest of the components (integrated amp, cd player and tape deck) are on an Atacama Equinox stand.

My current plan is to get rid of the tape deck (I never use it anyway) and put the amp and cd player on shelves.

Apollo make a two-tier shelf (http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3254) which is quite reasonably priced (well, cheaper than two more individual shelves anyway) of a similar design to the Sounds Organisation shelf my turntable is on. However, only the top shelf is on spikes - the bottom one is fixed.

I know the answer to all questions like this is "use your ears" but I'm trying to reduce the risk of drilling lots of holes in my wall only to discover that I don't like the result (especially as I will have to empty the room of all sensitive equipment before any drilling can take place) so I'm looking for advice from anyone who might have done this or something similar before. If I get the Apollo shelf and stick the CD player on the spiked shelf, will I really notice much difference between that and having separate spiked shelves for both components? Also, am I likely to hear much difference between having the equipment on the Equinox stand and on the wall shelves? I'm making the change for convenience rather than because I'm looking for an improvement in sound but at the same time if this is going to degrade my sound then I may need to look for other solutions.

Any advice would be appreciated.

TIA,

Simon.

Spectral Morn
13-02-2009, 11:28
Hi foxysounds

I am a fan of wall shelving kit as you can see...if you have bad floors, then lifting TT etc of the floor brings IMHE big improvements in sound quality.

If the wall your mounting on is a solid wall and not in a corner behind, facing or to the side of your speakers then yes I would wall mount. I would suggest the following shelf units as I think the Apollo one is not as good.

This is my upstairs system with a Marantz cd 7 on a Pro-Ject wall shelf and my Oracle Delphi mk4 on an old Target wall shelf (worth getting S/H if you can)

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SecondListeningRoom002.jpg

Wall Shelves you can buy from new

CUSTOM DESIGN can be got without glass...resonant damping steel instead.

http://www.hifi4less.com/shopimages/products/normal/Turntableshelf2912004.jpg

http://www.hifi4less.com/shopimages/products/thumbnails/492007-100.jpg

One of Pro-Jects Wall shelves these are very good...I use one in my upstairs set up.

http://www.needles-and-spins.co.uk/prod_images_blowup/ProJect-Turntable-Shelf1.jpg

Or Target also very good. http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/images/uploads/TGTVW1NW.jpg

You may find that additional isolation products will be a benefit as well.

Down stairs setup with SME Model 20 on Target wall shelf. I have used this in combination with a shelf made from granite. These granite shelves (or slate) can help a lot with some, but not all kit.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/holidayandhifipictures227.jpg


Regards D S D L----Neil :)

foxysounds
13-02-2009, 12:11
Thanks for your reply Neil.

My setup would be simlar to yours in that the speakers will be on the wall perpendicular to the wall that the hi-fi is mounted on (well, the speakers won't be "on" any wall but hopefully you know what I mean :))

It seems that Target also do a dual shelf (http://audioaffair.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=586) but like the Apollo one only the top shelf is spiked. It looks from the picture like it wouldn't be too hard to modify it and add spikes to the lower shelf though. :scratch:

Simon.

Spectral Morn
13-02-2009, 14:03
Hi Simon


You could use one of these, but I would be more inclined to use individual shelves (with none of the mounting metal work touching each other). I think this will be better as no vibration can be transmited through the metal. You can put rubber washers between the metal washers you might use behind the wall units mounting frame. This will offer a little isolation and stop vibration going into the wall or between shelves. The problem with a two in one design (unless both shelves are spiked and can be leveled ) is that vibration can travel from one part to the other. I don't know by how much, but for my money I would opt for individual shelves.

Regards D S D L----Neil :)

Mike
13-02-2009, 17:53
I once had everything except my TT mounted on the wall, it worked very well.

The TT (LP12) sat on a dedicated table on the floor... I used to have to try and sneak up on it like some sort of demented Ninja to prevent it from going ape-shit thanks to the ridiculously bouncy floor! Suspended floors can be a nightmare in my experience.

The TT should have been on the wall too but I didn't have enough wall space.

foxysounds
13-02-2009, 22:47
You could use one of these, but I would be more inclined to use individual shelves (with none of the mounting metal work touching each other). I think this will be better as no vibration can be transmited through the metal.
I was thinking that the CD player and TT would go on the double shelf. Since I would never be using both at the same time it wouldn't matter if any vibration transferred between them.


You can put rubber washers between the metal washers you might use behind the wall units mounting frame.
I wouldn't want to put anything behind the shelf because it will inevitably affect the amount of weight the shelf can hold. I would be putting the shelves on a solid brick wall though so vibration should be minimal. At least, I imagine it would be less than is currently transferred between the shelves of my Atacama Equinox.

Simon.

foxysounds
13-02-2009, 22:50
The TT (LP12) sat on a dedicated table on the floor...
Now that just seems like it's the wrong way round to me. Why not swap the turntable with one of the other components? :confused: Was there an advantage to not having it on the wall?

Simon.

Mike
13-02-2009, 22:51
A TT shelf was too bloody big to fit there! :)

John
14-02-2009, 07:10
Neil I am much impressed by your record collection. Mine used to be like that before I got rid of most of it back in the late 90s
I still must get my TT wall mounted but need to get it fabricated somewhere as its pretty wide

Spectral Morn
14-02-2009, 09:24
I was thinking that the CD player and TT would go on the double shelf. Since I would never be using both at the same time it wouldn't matter if any vibration transferred between them.


I wouldn't want to put anything behind the shelf because it will inevitably affect the amount of weight the shelf can hold. I would be putting the shelves on a solid brick wall though so vibration should be minimal. At least, I imagine it would be less than is currently transferred between the shelves of my Atacama Equinox.

Simon.




HI Simon

Putting a few washers behind the metal work does not compromise the wall shelf. Most walls are not parallel, so I found early on in order to get your shelf level(or as level as you can) that a few washers behind the frame could do this. I use wall expansion bolts to secure the wall shelves (hence I can use material like granite as well). A metal washer, thin rubber one, then another metal washer works well for me. You can tighten down, and the frame doesn't dig into the wall plus you can get your shelf frame level. I live in an old house and sometimes the washer count is higher to achieve this.

I guess using one bit at a time is okay but both your TT and CDP need to be level. If the bottom shelf can't be leveled then you will miss out on getting that extra few percent from your CDP...leveling makes a difference on CDP too.

Hi John ....Yes thats a fairly big part of it, not all as there is a bit more off shot. Look in the gallery for a wider angle shot. Most of my cds are on the wall downstairs and my Rock, Prog ,Female singer song writers, pop and modern stuff collection is in a rack beside the chair in the photo above (not seen as of shot) and in the center between the speakers.

Regards D S D L---Neil :)

foxysounds
14-02-2009, 09:36
Putting a few washers behind the metal work does not compromise the wall shelf...
In that case I'll give it a try. Thanks :)


I guess using one bit at a time is okay but both your TT and CDP need to be level. If the bottom shelf can't be leveled then you will miss out on getting that extra few percent from your CDP...leveling makes a difference on CDP too.
As I think I mentioned above, my plan was to try and do this myself by the addition of spikes. If I can source some that will screw into the wooden plinth (with the pointy end downwards, resting on the turntable support) I can level it by varying how much I screw each one in. Thanks for reminding me though because I haven't actually sourced these yet.

Simon.

foxysounds
03-03-2009, 12:35
Well, the end of February came and I had a little more money left over at the end of the month than I anticipated so I decided to buy 2 individual shelves rather than 1 double shelf. I settled on the Pro-ject WM1. Unfortunately it turns out they aren't made any more :(

foxysounds
04-03-2009, 21:56
Wahoo! I managed to get one ex-demo from a hi-fi shop for 35ukp (including postage)! And it's in great condition! :lol:

Now I just need to find another :scratch:

Spectral Morn
04-03-2009, 22:39
Sorry I didn't know it had been discontinued. Pro-ject do a couple of wall shelves, as do Custom Design. However if you fancy you could look at Pro-jects dealer list...you will find this on Henley's website. E-mail them and see if anyone has one. Well done on getting your first though. The hunt is on....


Regards D S D L---Neil :)

foxysounds
06-03-2009, 17:10
Well done on getting your first though. The hunt is on....
I've got my second one! Henley Designs were extremely helpful and were able to give me the names of the 2 dealers to which they had most recently sent more than one shelf. I then phoned them both up and bingo! The second shelf will be here tomorrow or Monday! :)

Simon.

Spectral Morn
06-03-2009, 18:55
Excellent news Simon ....I always found Henley to be very helpful.


Regards D S D L---Neil :)

foxysounds
14-03-2009, 23:32
It's all on the wall now! I can now get to the filing cabinet without giving myself a hernia or putting my back out :)

Not such good news is that for some reason the cassette deck died and has a tape stuck in it that it won't eject :( It obviously didn't like being moved. Still, there's another tape deck in the attic somewhere. Alternatively, that leaves space for an external DAC .... Hmmmmm. :)

Spectral Morn
14-03-2009, 23:59
Hi Simon

.....But does it sound better ?


Regards D S D L---Neil :)

foxysounds
15-03-2009, 13:30
.....But does it sound better ?
I'm not sure at the moment. I certainly haven't notice any degradation in quality.

It looks nice :)

Si.

foxysounds
15-03-2009, 13:38
Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh! :steam:

My other tape deck is dead too. :( They're both Awia decks and they're both belt drive so I suspect the belts have perished or stretched :(

Simon.

Spectral Morn
15-03-2009, 15:41
Hi Simon


Crap.....a lot of folks on the forum are having problems at the moment. Hope you get your Tape decks sorted.



Regards D S D l---Neil :)

foxysounds
18-03-2009, 22:23
I was listening to Moving Pictures tonight and the sound seemed wider than I remember - better stereo imaging. :)

Simon.

Spectral Morn
18-03-2009, 23:05
Hi Simon

Great album...Moving Picture's next to Permanent Waves my fave Rush album, with Signals. I love this period. Yes wall mounting may well be responsible for what you are hearing.

Excellent....


Regards D S D L----Neil :)

foxysounds
19-03-2009, 13:58
I like all periods of Rush music except the current one :) However, if I absolutely had to pick one period it would probably be the same one as you [although actually, by most people's definitions Rush Periods start and end with a live album so this is actually 2 periods :)].

Simon.

foxysounds
09-04-2009, 15:28
I just got myself a digital camera at long last so I'll post some pictures of it all on the wall over in the gallery later.

Simon.