New Inspire Idler Drive at show. [Archive]

Audioman

22-09-2012, 19:32

Not a lot to get excited about at Whittlebury I'm afraid but Inspire have a new idler drive model. Obviously based on a modded GL75 it looks superb. Available in colour of your choice the top plate is modified to accomodate SME arms (maybe others?) and mounted in a superb plinth.

I wasn't able to find out what, if any substantial mods are done under the skin but it does look superb and from a brief listen is excellent sounding. £2500 may seem expensive but considering the standard of finish and plinth construction is fair value. It certainly is up there with decks of a similar price. I challenge any home modder to achieve similar results.

chelsea

22-09-2012, 20:01

Looks a very nice quality deck.

barry-potter

22-09-2012, 20:43

oscarsaudio

22-09-2012, 20:56

whilst I agree it looks nice as does all the Inspire stuff , I'm dismayed that anyone can launch a refurbished / re manufactured item as a NEW product I don't know any other trade where you could get away with this .

Oscar.

walpurgis

22-09-2012, 22:23

I visited the Inspire factory a couple of years ago and had a long chat with the owner Robert Isherwood. He also showed and demonstrated to me his then current range of turntables.

I was most impressed, he was at the time almost running the business as a one man show, using outside help for design development and the manufacturing of precision parts, his works being largely an assembly line which he operated mainly himself. A very clever chap.

I know things have moved on since and I'm sure his manufacturing base must be much larger now, but I got the impression that he sincerely believed in his products.

If Robert turns out a revamped Lenco variant turntable, I have no doubt it will surpass the ability of the original and should be superb. I'm looking forward to seeing an HFW review of that one!

walpurgis

22-09-2012, 22:27

Audioman

23-09-2012, 07:29

whilst my modified gl75 looks rather workmanlike i can assure you that many a home modder has produced a gl75 variant that is the equal or better of the inspire one and for far less. if you don't believe me have a look at the offerings at lenco heaven.

Possible if you had access to professional spraying and engineering facilities. I don't think you will find anything approaching the finish achieved. Rear corner cut out and seamless machined arm mount in place. You would only recognise it as a Lenco from the remaining speed/control. Even the later is likely new or recromed parts.

From the SQ on a brief listen there is likely some expensive below rhe surface improvements such as to idler and bearing. Unfortunately Mr Isherwwood was preoccupied with other enquiries and I was unable to ascertain the hidden improvements. Anyhow judging by his other products I doubt this is just a nice cosmetic job.

Paul.

wiicrackpot

23-09-2012, 07:52

whilst my modified gl75 looks rather workmanlike i can assure you that many a home modder has produced a gl75 variant that is the equal or better of the inspire one and for far less. if you don't believe me have a look at the offerings at lenco heaven.
I beg to differ, the percentage of blodging that has the Whoar !! factor is pretty low there,most i wouldn't give it house room,
one thing is prevalent though, the amount of trees died to make some of the monstrosities is criminal. :doh:

DSJR

23-09-2012, 07:57

wiicrackpot

23-09-2012, 08:02

Then how did PTP get away with it?, any links to the article.

DSJR

23-09-2012, 08:08

It was someone I know who was, I believe, a prolific poster on Lenco Heaven at one time. Maybe he contacted Lenco directly, I don't know. He sort of abandoned Lenco's I believe after acquiring a TD124 and restoring it..

pidge22

23-09-2012, 08:37

Audioman

23-09-2012, 09:25

I always think Inspire products are a bit like an X type Jag they look like a Jag but underneath they are basically a Mondeo..and I am sure depreciation is just as poor as an X type!...& I would question the R&D that goes on into any of there products

I heard an Eclipse once and wasn't impressed...

I think you could say that about most high end tt designs. Most are a trial and error combination of layers of materials and spikes + varying platter options. I doubt there is a high level of science/measurement. Now that may be different in the case of the Spiralgroove tt I heard in the Right Note room. Obviously serious thought into isolation principles and an uncanny lack of surface noise - downside is £21K price. The Eclipse and many other decks in that price range hardly break new ground. It's a hard job for anyone to dislodge Michell and Notts Analogue in this bracket both of which are more researched and developed products.

Audioman

23-09-2012, 09:35

Lenco had better not find out...

A year or two ago, someone was thinking about making a solid cast plinth/mounting for Lenco running gear and putting it into production. The manufacturers found out and "disuaded" him from doing it.

Dave.

Are Lenco still a going concern? Do they still make turntables? I don't think they can stop anyone upgrading the parts, respraying and mounting in a plinth then charging a commercial rate for the service. Essentialy what Inspire are offering to a standard the home bodger would find extremely difficult to achieve.

Paul.

walpurgis

23-09-2012, 09:48

"[QUOTE=pidge22;364636]I always think Inspire products are a bit like an X type Jag they look like a Jag but underneath they are basically a Mondeo..and I am sure depreciation is just as poor as an X type!...& I would question the R&D that goes on into any of there products"

Not sure that's quite right.

The Inspire products are realistically priced, very well made and perform well against their competition.

You can't produce any technological product without R&D, so what aspect of the R&D that Inspire use would you question?

sq225917

23-09-2012, 09:51

He's built a good business up out of cloning Funk firm products and slapping old turntable parts into new plinths. I was disappointed to see his deck using his clone of Arthur's mat.

oscarsaudio

23-09-2012, 09:54

daytona600

23-09-2012, 12:15

lots of info on lenco heaven
another version on the market about £2k
www.ptpaudio.com

i would look for a nice Emt myself

Audioman

23-09-2012, 15:01

Its the whole we've launched 'our new idler drive tuntable' that gets me ,I wonder how many people spending £2,500 on any item would be happy to find out its made using 2nd hand parts.
Does anyone know what old parts are used and what ones are modified ?

If you re-furbish any thing else i.e computers ,tv's classic cars then you can't sell as new .

I think if you saw it it's pretty obviously a Lenco and utilises the chassis. To develop and manufacture everything from scratch would make it much more expensive. All this sneering is a result of jumping to conclusions. At this stage I don't know exactly what original design work has gone into the inners. It does look superb and soundwise is competitive with decks in it's price range. If you can mod a Lenco to the same standards in your garage good luck though that is obviously a much cheaper option if you have the capabilities. I'm not getting into another Funk mat clone discussion. The Inspire mat may just look similar and nothing else for all I know.

Paul.

keiths

23-09-2012, 15:34

On the thread over on Lenco Heaven, Inspire have said:

"We have sensitively left most of the mechanics untouched, although the completed models are 100% rebuilt and the spec of moving parts are back to almost as from the factory"

So I would say that the motor, idler and probably the bearing are Lenco standard parts.

barry-potter

23-09-2012, 16:40

I beg to differ, the percentage of blodging that has the Whoar !! factor is pretty low there,most i wouldn't give it house room,
one thing is prevalent though, the amount of trees died to make some of the monstrosities is criminal. :doh:

you can differ if you want to, i don't give a shit. some of the efforts on there are brilliant, some so-so and some crap. at the end of the day the endeavour is to produce a t/t that produces a good sound and to enjoy the process of fiddling about and experimenting.

oscarsaudio

23-09-2012, 18:21

I think if you saw it it's pretty obviously a Lenco and utilises the chassis. To develop and manufacture everything from scratch would make it much more expensive. All this sneering is a result of jumping to conclusions. At this stage I don't know exactly what original design work has gone into the inners. It does look superb and soundwise is competitive with decks in it's price range. If you can mod a Lenco to the same standards in your garage good luck though that is obviously a much cheaper option if you have the capabilities. I'm not getting into another Funk mat clone discussion. The Inspire mat may just look similar and nothing else for all I know.

Paul.

No sneering or jumping to conclusions !
I don't doubt that it sounds good and I'm sure the quality of workmanship is excellent (it should be for £2500) BUT when any one launches a product as new then I would expect it to be new not made from 2nd hand parts.

Imagine your a newbie into vinyl and had not heard of Lenco's and you purchase a 'NEW' turntable only to find out you'd purchased one made from 2nd hand parts would you not feel a little mugged off .

In the above situation the cost ,workmanship , sound as irrelevant IMHO.
As i mentioned earlier i don't know any other trade were this happens maybe others do and I'll stand corrected.

Marco

23-09-2012, 18:26

Imagine your a newbie into vinyl and had not heard of Lenco's and you purchase a 'NEW' turntable only to find out you'd purchased one made from 2nd hand parts would you not feel a little mugged off .

In the above situation the cost ,workmanship , sound as irrelevant IMHO.
As i mentioned earlier i don't know any other trade were this happens maybe others do and I'll stand corrected.

I have more than a little sympathy for Oscar's viewpoint, especially when it comes to some of the antics of Inspire, as Simon alluded to earlier, e.g. with the Achromat :rolleyes:

I shall say no more.

Marco.

Beobloke

23-09-2012, 18:49

He's built a good business up out of cloning Funk firm products and slapping old turntable parts into new plinths. I was disappointed to see his deck using his clone of Arthur's mat.

The mat that Inspire sell is made of acrylic, just like many other turntable mats. It therefore bears no resemblance to the Achromat's material. The mat that was ALLEGED to be very similar to the Achromat was removed from sale by Robert when the whole thing started and has not been re-instated.

Audioman

23-09-2012, 18:53

I have more than a little sympathy for Oscar's viewpoint, especially when it comes to some of the antics of Inspire, as Simon alluded to earlier, e.g. with the Achromat :rolleyes:

I shall say no more.

Marco.

Marco.

I don't think Inspire are trying to pass this TT of as a new design. Probably trying to cash in on the idler drive lovers who can't be bothered to source and renovate their own table. You could accuse them of trying to cover all bases and cater for all trends as they now have 2 techy clones. My only worry is that buying up Technics and Lenco decks for their mods will deplete the numbers available on the open market and force up prices.

I do think they genuinely make decks that provide competitive SQ in their price range. There appears to be serious work gone into designing (er modifying) these products. Has anybody tried their Achromat look alike? Is it a genuine copy or something inferior that looks the same? Their main business appears to be providing mods which I am sure is bigger than their 'original' designs. I do think in some cases you would be better buying a better TT than spending cash on their Rega upgrades and the like.

As far as this deck is concerned I am only reporting on it's fine cosmetics and sound. I am no more convinced it provides great value for money than other rivals at the price. I think that still lies with the Michell Orbe and Notts Hyperspace at this price point. If you can't stand belt drive it is an alternative option.

BTW did you read my 'in the flesh' comments on the 'plastic' AT turntable? Also on display in the Inspire room.

Paul.

oscarsaudio

23-09-2012, 19:03

Paul ,

the clue is ' Inspire Hi-Fi's new Idler Drive turntable'

if thats not passing it off as new what is.

That's me out on this :scratch:

Marco

23-09-2012, 19:07

+1. New is new. If it isn't new, then it isn't new - simples!

Paul, I'll reply later to your last post :)

Marco.

DSJR

23-09-2012, 19:29

Dave.

Are Lenco still a going concern? Do they still make turntables? Paul.

The lenco name still exists and I believe they make a cheapo USB plastic thing passing for a turntable :eyebrows: amongst other things. Like many others, their 1980's turntables got worse and worse and eventually, they stopped being imported over here..

Spur07

23-09-2012, 19:44

you can differ if you want to, i don't give a shit. some of the efforts on there are brilliant, some so-so and some crap. at the end of the day the endeavour is to produce a t/t that produces a good sound and to enjoy the process of fiddling about and experimenting.

I quite agree. some of the 'projects' on Lenco Heaven aren't to my taste and others are properly beautiful, and at the end of the day isn't it all about how it sounds. some people build there own substantial plinths and others just keep the hollow crappy, originals - each to their own.

WOStantonCS100

23-09-2012, 20:00

Paul ,

the clue is ' Inspire Hi-Fi's new Idler Drive turntable'

if thats not passing it off as new what is.

That's me out on this :scratch:

+1, if that's the wording used.

Lost all interest in Inspire after researching their Monarch turntable. They'd probably get on better with folks just saying they're another aftermarket supplier/refurbisher and dropping the marketing speech altogether. It would probably get them in less hot water than implying they've come up with anything "new".

YNWaN

23-09-2012, 20:20

The mat that Inspire sell is made of acrylic, just like many other turntable mats. It therefore bears no resemblance to the Achromat's material. The mat that was ALLEGED to be very similar to the Achromat was removed from sale by Robert when the whole thing started and has not been re-instated.

I know they make an acrylic mat - I had one for a short time. But I also know what the Achromat is like (what its made of etc) and, having just returned from the show, can confirm that Inspire definitely had decks on show fitted with their Achromat copy (I handled one).

Marco

23-09-2012, 20:28

:nocomment:

:unfair: :nono:

Marco.

Audioman

23-09-2012, 20:51

Paul ,

the clue is ' Inspire Hi-Fi's new Idler Drive turntable'

if thats not passing it off as new what is.

That's me out on this :scratch:

Oh dear. Perhaps I inadvertantly propogated the 'new' label with the thread title. Inspire in their blurb to various forums actualy state 'our idler drive' and don't actualy describe it as new. I know this is a subtle difference. Just think anyone familiar with idlers or hi-fi in general would recognise it for what it is. I don't think this product is aimed at ignorant newbies.

Paul.

Marco

23-09-2012, 21:01

Why have you just posted an indentical post to your earlier one, Mark (#31)? :scratch:

Marco.

YNWaN

23-09-2012, 21:10

Don't know - Tapatalk is playing up and doing something odd - will delete one in a bit when I'm at my computer (can't delete on Tapatalk).

Marco

23-09-2012, 21:23

Which one would you like deleted, and I'll do it for you? :)

Marco.

oscarsaudio

23-09-2012, 21:24

Oh dear. Perhaps I inadvertantly propogated the 'new' label with the thread title. Inspire in their blurb to various forums actualy state 'our idler drive' and don't actualy describe it as new. I know this is a subtle difference. Just think anyone familiar with idlers or hi-fi in general would recognise it for what it is. I don't think this product is aimed at ignorant newbies.

Paul.

Written by Inspire Hi-fi 'Inspire Hi-Fi's new idler drive turntable.launching at the whittlebury hall show !'

Any clearer ;)

so if an 'ignorant' newbie buy's one its their tuff luck ? :doh:

There's a lot of people into music that treat themselves to some nice hi-fi from time to time that don't go on forums or know much about older gear so may not be familiar with lenco's.

I'm in no way knocking the effort & workmanship just the way its being sold.

Marco

23-09-2012, 21:27

Yes, they definitely have a track record of being 'inspired' by other people's ideas! ;)

Marco.

YNWaN

23-09-2012, 21:35

Which one would you like deleted, and I'll do it for you? :)

Marco.

Don't worry - just done it :).

Audioman

24-09-2012, 07:03

Yes, they definitely have a track record of being 'inspired' by other people's ideas! ;)

Marco.

I can't disagree as they are primarily moders but to a high cosmetic and engineering standard. Anyway what is new and inovative in the world of TT design? Possibly the Spiral Groove and Continuum bring in some new ideas to design. My only comment is price wise they are getting full retail rather than the claimed savings of direct to the public.

sq225917

24-09-2012, 07:58

The mat that Inspire sell is made of acrylic, just like many other turntable mats. It therefore bears no resemblance to the Achromat's material. The mat that was ALLEGED to be very similar to the Achromat was removed from sale by Robert when the whole thing started and has not been re-instated.

Excellent good to know. Shame his Rega arm looks just like Arthur's. Don't get me wrong the decks all sounded great, I just value original thinking.

Beobloke

24-09-2012, 08:03

Written by Inspire Hi-fi 'Inspire Hi-Fi's new idler drive turntable.launching at the whittlebury hall show !'

Any clearer ;)
.

I am intrigued that you appear to be choosing to interpret the word 'new' in the wrong way. In this case it is used to clarify that it is a new product in their range, not that it is 'new'!

You conveniently pick the title from the press release that suits your disparaging argument but then leave out one of the first lines of text which clearly states "The turntable uses some exquisitively remanufactured parts from the Lenco GL75."

Apologies if I appear to be getting a little heated here - to clarify, I have no commercial link to Inspire Hi-Fi. I just happened to be the first reviewer to assess any of their products and I appreciate their items as well engineered and superbly performing and feel a little disappointed that a small minority seem to be enjoying putting the boot in and rallying against a British company with a decent range of turntables that are doing so much to help spread the vinyl word.

oscarsaudio

24-09-2012, 10:12

I am intrigued that you appear to be choosing to interpret the word 'new' in the wrong way. In this case it is used to clarify that it is a new product in their range, not that it is 'new'!

You conveniently pick the title from the press release that suits your disparaging argument but then leave out one of the first lines of text which clearly states "The turntable uses some exquisitively remanufactured parts from the Lenco GL75."

Apologies if I appear to be getting a little heated here - to clarify, I have no commercial link to Inspire Hi-Fi. I just happened to be the first reviewer to assess any of their products and I appreciate their items as well engineered and superbly performing and feel a little disappointed that a small minority seem to be enjoying putting the boot in and rallying against a British company with a decent range of turntables that are doing so much to help spread the vinyl word.

Adam - How else can you interpret the words 'our new'

If you read my posts I'm not knocking the product in any way and have actually said I'm sure its well made.

Surely a better way to market it would be - our new modified , refurbished or re manufactured Lenco turntable.Out of interest have they named this new turntable

It would be good to know what parts are re-manufactured and in what way .

Can anyone else point me in the direction where a premium product uses 2nd hand parts .

To be honest Adam I'm a little disapointed in a British company that produces high quality work has decided to market a product in such away and will possible do them more harm than good if they continue to do so in my opinion .

But then maybe I should just see it as clever way of marketing.

freefallrob

24-09-2012, 10:30

Got to side with Boebloke (adam) on this, Robert is a decent chap, totally straight forward, trying to develop a UK business with decent products and demoing facilities.

Clive

24-09-2012, 10:57

Adam - How else can you interpret the words 'our new'

"Our new" means new to them. I too side with Adam. This is rather too picky and I expect purchasers of this specialist piece of kit won't be so naive. Also there doesn't seem to be any intended subterfuge going on here.

Beobloke

24-09-2012, 11:05

.Out of interest have they named this new turntable
.

Yes they have. And no, I can't remember what it was. I must have had too much Whittlebury ale I think...:o

.Can anyone else point me in the direction where a premium product uses 2nd hand parts .

Here's one:

http://www.eaglegb.com/pages/e-type-restoration

Here's another one:

http://www.jensen-cars.co.uk/

In the hi-fi industry, Concordant Audio used to do it with Quad amplifiers, Quad Musikwiedergabe and One Thing Audio do it with ESL57s and a whole host of companies will turn your old Rega turntable into something posher.

oscarsaudio

24-09-2012, 11:25

All those you've linked to leave you under no doubt what you are purchasing i.e Eagle E-type , Jesen name mentioned,one thing audio esl's, I just think Inspire should maybe call it the Inspire lenco 75 or something similar so as to leave the potential purchaser in no doubt what they are buying

we'll just have to agree to dis-agree ,as I don't want to cause any offensive ,just seems an odd way to market a refurbished item.

sq225917

24-09-2012, 11:30

Whichever way you look at it his copy is pure obfuscation, the true meaning isn't obvious and the balance of benefit in the possible meanings is accrued to the brand.

It's a new turntable built from old parts from another brand. It includes second hand parts and as such cannot be called new under UK trade's description. Now we can argue the toss over what we might think is right and wrong but I can assure you the ASA will make him change that copy if the issue is brought before them.