View Full Version : Loud is beautiful..... if it's clean
Had the pleasure of IanW and Marco round my gaff for a listening sesh a few days ago.
An enjoyable time was had as I put my system through it's paces with an eclectic selection of tunes that in some cases was "just the right side of cheesy"(classic Ian;).
I'm not alone in thinking every system has it's volume threshold where it just comes alive, I thought I liked it loud but these guys are hardcore and my normal high level listening was a good 10dB louder that night with grins all round.
My system has most of the heavy lifting performed by pro hardware, MC2 MC650 power amps with an XTA digital active crossover driving JBL K2 9800 type clones(4" Be, better mid/hf driver)-all pro drivers. Source is mac mini/SBT via MDAC. The main reason for the sesh was to demo my JBL project speakers and no doubt the guys will chip in with their impressions but "they make everything enjoyable to listen to" was one observation pointing to a mission accomplished verdict;-).
Fortunately I have no WAF issues so can indulge my big speaker passion but feel it is the one true way to audio heaven for me(and 2 hardcore nutters).
Cooky
wiicrackpot
22-09-2012, 07:46
Frank,
Didn't know you use K2 9800's?, listening to it's younger brother K2 5800 a few years back was what started my slippery slope to big speakers/drivers,
that stupid grin expression was what i had and there's no going back now.
Your situation mirrors mine as i am an Alpha male and have a MC750 too. ;)
Frank,
Didn't know you use K2 9800's?, listening to it's younger brother K2 5800 a few years back was what started my slippery slope to big speakers/drivers,
that stupid grin expression was what i had and there's no going back now.
Your situation mirrors mine as i am an Alpha male and have a MC750 too. ;)
I know, it's funny isn't it how for some of us that type of experience becomes a compulsion? a slippery slope indeed.It isn't brutal, the quality needs to be there to push your hifi buttons then the grin becomes addictive.
F
Hi Frank,
It was great meeting you again and hearing your system for the first time. Excellent choice of beer too (respect, bruv!) - I'd have had more if I hadn't been driving back from Ian's! Yes, I completely agree... "Loud is beautiful" *if* it's clean and your system can handle it - and yours certainly could, with ease! :wowzer:
"Hardcore" - us? LOL! Well, it's a bit like sitting as a passenger in a 3.5 litre Bentley doing 70 MPH on an empty stretch of motorway, and whilst enjoying the experience, acknowledging that it's barely ticking over, and then asking the driver to put his foot down to increase the 'thrill factor', knowing that the engine is big enough to take it all in its stride!!! :exactly:
Well, I certainly felt suitably 'thrilled' listening to a superb selection of music on your system, in fact I think that at one point I even managed a 'wee fright' (s'ok, not quite enough to wet myself, but check your sofa) when you were playing Orbital, and felt queasy with the sheer visceral intensity of the sound!
Just be thankful, as those JBLs were such boogie demons, that I didn't get up and do a wee shimmee-ette on the floor, to Madonna!! :dance: :lol: I'd also thought that night about wearing my pink spangly top (although it would've clashed with Ian's taffeta blouse), but anyway I digress...
Seriously though, your system was a riot, and I thoroughly enjoyed listening to all manner of music through it. The sonic signature is different to that of big Tannoys (as you know yourself), in terms of the respective voicing of both speakers, with the huge horn tweeters of the JBLs being hugely dynamic and revealing, in a way that the Tannoys don't quite manage, which really brings rock and dance music alive.
The Tannoys tend to ply you more subtly with their charms (although are definitely no shrinking violets), and major more in creating a '3D'-type image, as well as also packing a huge wallop, in terms of low-end heft, when the music demands, although in a slightly different way to the JBLs. However, you don't need me to tell you these things, as you've probably heard, and certainly owned, more big Tannoys than me!
It'll be interesting to see what you think on the return visit, chez-moi, as with all-valve amplification and an 'old school' CDP and DAC, all on my mountain of Mana, not to mention vinyl, in the equation, our systems couldn't be more different. Anyway, I look forward to playing you some bangin' choons, and to returning your excellent hospitality. Thanks again, mate, for a thoroughly entertaining and enjoyable evening :cool:
Marco.
It may be loud and clear, but is it "High Fidelity?"
'Course it is, but there are other factors we paupers with families have to consider :lol:
I enjoyed my hooligan days and have the tinnitus to prove it! Now, I can derive much pleasure from very low volume levels, the level that would send Marco to sleep. So much to be gained at this volume too, where the system and ears have to work harder to bring out all the details...
As you were chaps :respect:
SonicHammer
22-09-2012, 12:22
It may be loud and clear, but is it "High Fidelity?"
Who cares!? :hairmetal::hairmetal::hairmetal:
;)
wiicrackpot
22-09-2012, 15:32
It's natural progression for me, with these bad boys i listen in a different way, less critical just music and fun with a capital F, i wanted the dynamics and immediacy of the Tannoy's but with wide open panoramic sonic picture and liveliness and projection of those co-axial horns bring, something with attitude if you like but not at hooligan levels mind, i'd say most of my listening is moderate to low levels and i feel big drivers doesn't shrink and go sterile, loose dynamic shading , palpability if you like at low levels like small speakers do.
Another thing, it wouldn't bother so much if i blow one of them Altec's or JBL etc..drivers but if i blew a Tannoy Red/Silver or Gold's, i'd be gutted. :)
Sima's got the right idea. :cool:
Cheers Marco. I look forward to a sesh at yours, Long time since I've enjoyed the charms of Monitor Golds in Lockwood Majors-a treat is in store I'm sure.
F
I'll give you a bell (prolly in a week or so) as I've got a few things on at the moment, but looking forward to you popping over :)
I've got a pair of 1970s Celestion Ditton Studio 66 Monitors, at the moment, set-up in the lounge downstairs (fed from my system upstairs), which look like this (taken from a demo we did at Scalford Hall, a couple of years back):
http://imageshack.us/a/img834/8438/celestion66s.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/celestion66s.jpg/)
Twin 12" bass drivers, supplemented by twin 12" ABRs. I'll let you hear those first, and see what you think, before I unleash the Lockies on you! ;)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
23-09-2012, 21:47
Nothing at all like having a system that will go to stupid volumes with low distortion & listening at a moderate level, it's always as clean as you could wish for & totally stress free :)
Nothing like cranking it either :D
Nice one!
"Loud is not necessarily beautiful" - clean or not. It all depends on the programme material i.e. the music.
There is a correct volume level for all music for it to sound 'right'. A folk singer playing solo acoustic guitar, sounds ridiculous if played at too loud a volume level, as does a large symphonic orchestra played too quietly.
Dat's true, but if you wanna play some Tool, ZZ Top, or AC/DC at 'live gig' levels, it's nice to have a system that can give you a realistic snapshot of such, without going all farty! ;)
Marco.
Dat's true, but if you wanna play some Tool, ZZ Top, or AC/DC at 'live gig' levels, it's nice to have a system that can give you a realistic snapshot of such, without going all farty! ;)
Marco.
I'm quite happy playing ZZ Top at less than 'live gig levels', which were always too loud for me. ;)
Lol - I didn't even know you liked ZZ Top... Your (relative) endorsement of Kosheen was surprising enough, old chap! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
23-09-2012, 22:27
I'm quite happy playing ZZ Top at less than 'live gig levels', which were always too loud for me. ;)
Which is 100% fine, I'd agree as I'm not a ZZ Top fan :eyebrows:
I think what the OP is attempting to get at is what I have believed for a good while, if your system can go much louder than you'll ever listen to & still be clean, then at lower volume levels it'll be vastly cleaner than a system that isn't designed to attain the same volume levels.
While small speakers may be reasonably good, they'll never beat bigger speakers that can go to much higher volume levels which happen to be run at the same volume level as the smaller ones :cool:
Lol - I didn't even know you liked ZZ Top... Your (relative) endorsement of Kosheen was surprising enough, old chap! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Wouldn't like to think you took me for granted! ;) 'Eliminator' is one of my favourite discs.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PgnsP94aL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
"Loud is not necessarily beautiful" - clean or not. It all depends on the programme material i.e. the music.
There is a correct volume level for all music for it to sound 'right'. A folk singer playing solo acoustic guitar, sounds ridiculous if played at too loud a volume level, as does a large symphonic orchestra played too quietly.
I think you'd be surprised just how loud and dynamic a folk singer/guitar actually is.
It sounds like you all had an excellent session. I've always liked big JBLs and the way they go about making music - always fast, if not the last word in tonal accuracy. I had a pair of L-100T many years ago and they did very well while not costing me the earth. The bass was as tight as a tight thing and the Ti tweeter remarkably sweet and detailed.
I'm sure your JBLs are in a different class, Frank.
Barry - if you play, say, Folk Singer by Muddy Waters I agree that there is a 'sweet spot' volume level for it to sound right. However, that level is quite high and the peaks can clean take your head off as it's such a realistic recording.
I must admit I don't enjoy loud listening levels much, in fact I walk out of gigs that are too loud and at home the dial on my Rega rarely goes past the 9/10 O'clock position - part of the reason for purchasing the Harbeth's, as their performance does not fall off at lower listening levels. I had an all night session at a mates recently and he kept turning it up the later it got - I hated it, very, very loud Monitor Audio GS10's :eek:
Marco's listening room scares the livin' daylights out of me - visceral is a word that comes to mind http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/woofer.gif
getting one's system to play very quietly properly is as difficult as getting it to play loudly cleanly IMO. My big old ATC's didn't like being turned down at all (not in their "pro" portfolio in fairness), but the LS5/9's sound excellent played this way, as do the BC2's, and I know all the the Harbs are better again :)
It is only perceptibly 'loud' if there is audible distortion. Hence the thread title. Not easy to do. Big JBLs with enough amplification is one way to do it.
Spot on, Martin - and that's *exactly* the point.
We were still able to hold a conversation in the room (whilst our trousers were suitably flapping to the music), despite Frank's 450W MC2 amps, going full pelt into his 98db JBLs! Goodness knows what an SPL meter would've shown... :eek:
I can get a similar effect going on at home, with my Copper amp and Tannoys. Like the thread title says: "Loud is beautiful... IF IT'S CLEAN." It's the last bit that presents the biggest challenge for a hi-fi system!! ;)
I also agree with the other side of the argument that Dave R put forward earlier:
getting one's system to play very quietly properly is as difficult as getting it to play loudly cleanly IMO.
Absolutely - and if your system can do BOTH, then you've got it nailed. I've achieved that now, after years of judicious system-building and fine-tuning, as has Frank.
Marco.
When the missus is out I tend to crank the volume up and everything sounds wonderful. It's not until she gets home and tells me she can hear what I'm listening to from way up the street that I have any inkling at all as to just how loud it is. That's gotta be a good thing ;)
Lol... No offence, but you need to join the BIG BOY speaker club, dude, before you can play the sort of games I've been describing! ;)
Marco.
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