View Full Version : Expensive audio streamers?
Sorry if this has been said many times before but expensive streamers, such as Linn, are in reality 'just' computers which have been optimised and prettified. I have a decent DAC already and no wish to change it, I just want the right computer - PC or otherwise.
I read a very convincing article a few months ago that a simple 'notebook' is almost ideal with no fan, no HDD, need have no other processes interfering, it can run all day on an external 12v battery, etc. The article went into far more detail of course but sod's law means that I can't find it now :doh:
Apparently there are people marketing optimised 'notebooks' for exactly this purpose but I can't find them either:scratch: Does anyone know who sells them OR do you have any other observations on this?
(Although I have used Sonos for years, I want to 'get into' hi-res and am trying to decide which route to take.)
Hi mate.
A simple no-nonsense solution to you getting into hires?
Buy a squeezebox Touch, ran into a decent dac it sounds fantastic.
It can do 24/192 hires music if your dac can.
Great forum here: (Including an audiophile section) http://forums.slimdevices.com/
Have a laptop? Just use that as your server.
Not as good as PC audio though...I made the switch from SB Touch to PC Audio recently and it sounds better, even into the same dac.
In my own experience getting computer audio "right" is very much NOT what that your article suggests...there's more to it than just a "simple computer".
Have a read here, http://www.computeraudiophile.com/forum/#equipment
All the information you could ever want (and a lot you dont :)) do some research then make an informed choice.
Heard an audiophile computer http://www.audiochews.com/index.php?p=/discussion/162/nva-tfs (Cost new £2200) at a get together at a mates recently and those of us that were there agreed it was worth the money.
A fully regulated linear power supply, software configuration and choice of best hardware for purpose makes all the difference.
hope this helps.
Ammonite Audio
19-09-2012, 13:21
Sorry if this has been said many times before but expensive streamers, such as Linn, are in reality 'just' computers which have been optimised and prettified. I have a decent DAC already and no wish to change it, I just want the right computer - PC or otherwise.
I read a very convincing article a few months ago that a simple 'notebook' is almost ideal with no fan, no HDD, need have no other processes interfering, it can run all day on an external 12v battery, etc. The article went into far more detail of course but sod's law means that I can't find it now :doh:
Apparently there are people marketing optimised 'notebooks' for exactly this purpose but I can't find them either:scratch: Does anyone know who sells them OR do you have any other observations on this?
(Although I have used Sonos for years, I want to 'get into' hi-res and am trying to decide which route to take.)
I can see the appeal of a ready-made streamer, but I have found that you can get fantastic results from a simple PC at very little cost. That PC can be a netbook, or a custom-built PC like I made earlier in the year. If you want some sensible advice, I do recommend having a chat with Mark at Item Audio (http://www.itemaudio.com/). He advocates low-powered, simple PCs and all I can say is that my experience supports his view. My PC will have an audiophile SOtM USB card installed when I get back, itself fed by a Paul Hynes PR3 regulator (the PC is powered by one of Paul's larger PSUs). It's not difficult to make up or to set up a music PC - J River Media Center pretty much takes care of everything and the sound quality is superb. It is much, much better than my CD player and I can easily now listen to digital without hankering after vinyl. There are some nice PC cases out there that don't look out of place in the audio rack, which is a bonus; also it's possible to make them completely fanless and silent.
I've found the PSU to make a big difference myself Shuggie.
Its all good stuff, but quite technical and not really a "simple computer" solution though?
Having a Paul Hynes (or equivalent) power supply is a bit specialised ;)
Agree there' room for a ready made solution, as I guess not everyone wants to (or can) build their own server, do the research into power supplies etc.
......... Buy a squeezebox Touch, ran into a decent dac it sounds fantastic...............
Hi Gazjam
My first thought was to get a SBT as I already have all my music on a Buffalo NAS with a second one automatically backing it up. The problem I saw with that is that the NAS has to be loaded with some sort of Squeezebox software and I kept reading reports of people 'bricking' their NAS whist trying to load it. Given my limited experience with such things I chickened out of that route.
Given the low cost of a SBT (for the time being) I am not totally averse to buying a NAS ready loaded, if I can find one, but if a PC is better, that may be the way to go.
Another thought is the Cambridge Audio Sonata NP30 which is only £399 but that does not do 24/192 and I don't really want to go only half way. I would still use my Benchmark DAC1 of course.
Thanks for the other links, I will get reading and see how much I understand:scratch:
realysm42
19-09-2012, 16:17
Gary, what psu are you using?
Running one of these Martin.
Seasonic 760.
Measures REALLY well in terms of DC ripple etc.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&file=print&reid=235
My PC is used for gaming as well, so needed a psu with grunt to run my two SLI gfx cards.
Pricey but worth it.
I'm sure a "proper" linear psu would sound even better.
Built a audio server for a mate, advised him that with a linear psu the thing would be moved up a level sound quality wise.
Hi Gazjam
My first thought was to get a SBT as I already have all my music on a Buffalo NAS with a second one automatically backing it up. The problem I saw with that is that the NAS has to be loaded with some sort of Squeezebox software and I kept reading reports of people 'bricking' their NAS whist trying to load it. Given my limited experience with such things I chickened out of that route.
Given the low cost of a SBT (for the time being) I am not totally averse to buying a NAS ready loaded, if I can find one, but if a PC is better, that may be the way to go.
Another thought is the Cambridge Audio Sonata NP30 which is only £399 but that does not do 24/192 and I don't really want to go only half way. I would still use my Benchmark DAC1 of course.
Thanks for the other links, I will get reading and see how much I understand:scratch:
Have fun! :)
There's a lot to know but its all good stuff...
bobbasrah
19-09-2012, 18:26
Running one of these Martin.
Seasonic 760.
Measures REALLY well in terms of DC ripple etc.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&file=print&reid=235
My PC is used for gaming as well, so needed a psu with grunt to run my two SLI gfx cards.
Pricey but worth it.
I'm sure a "proper" linear psu would sound even better.
Built a audio server for a mate, advised him that with a linear psu the thing would be moved up a level sound quality wise.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/section5.html are also worth a spin through, and another which I forget now (Google), do actually test parts inc psu for mechanical and electrical noise etc.... You will find a wealth of info as it is very popular....;)
Problem these days is that with so much noise generation on the board with voltage generation and switching, the difference to linear psu is becoming marginal so long as it is not a cheap'n'nasty....:steam:
realysm42
19-09-2012, 19:15
Sorry Gary, do you have an example of what a 'proper' linear psu might look like please?
Patrick Dixon
20-09-2012, 05:38
Sorry if this has been said many times before but expensive streamers, such as Linn, are in reality 'just' computers which have been optimised and prettified.
The only thing to be sorry about is that you're wrong!
Sorry Gary, do you have an example of what a 'proper' linear psu might look like please?
:scratch:
square box?
PCB with bits on?
The only thing to be sorry about is that you're wrong!
+1
Need to read more than one article to form an opinion I'm afraid (no offence Nevalti :))
realysm42
20-09-2012, 07:39
Thanks mate.
sq225917
20-09-2012, 07:44
It depends what you definition of computer is. Do the Linn DS products have a motherboard, a processor, run an operating system and have the ability communicate with other devices and a user, well yes, yes, yes, yes and kind of. It would probably be more accurate to define it as a dac with ethernet networking ability- or as we commonly call them a streamer!
Thanks mate.
wasn't sure if you were being serious? :scratch:
as far as I know not too many "off the shelf" linear psu's suitable for hifi?
Personally I wouldn't advise throwing money at something potentially expensive without knowing it would be a great improvement.
Having heard a linear PSU done right I know that it is.
Was a custom build for the NVA server we heard at a bake off http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18860&highlight=nva+server&page=23
(though my own built server got pretty close...lol)
Stratmangler
20-09-2012, 07:46
Given the low cost of a SBT (for the time being) I am not totally averse to buying a NAS ready loaded, if I can find one, but if a PC is better, that may be the way to go.
http://www.ebuyer.com/283921-zyxel-nsa310-2tb-1x-2tb-nas-drive-91-016-007009b
bobbasrah
20-09-2012, 08:39
http://www.ebuyer.com/283921-zyxel-nsa310-2tb-1x-2tb-nas-drive-91-016-007009b
:stalks:
Wow Chris....
That is pretty good value considering, as long as you didn't need more than one drive....:cool:
Stratmangler
20-09-2012, 09:45
:stalks:
Wow Chris....
That is pretty good value considering, as long as you didn't need more than one drive....:cool:
I switched over to one early this year, and it hasn't missed a beat.
The version of LMS that it runs does not have all the transcoding capability that its computer based versions have, but it's quite happy serving 24/192 flac files to my EDO installed Squeezebox Touch.
All the usual online stuff works well too - iPlayer, Spotify etc.
The only thing to be sorry about is that you're wrong!
I beg to differ as a Linn DS is really nothing more than a power supply, DAC and computer in a single box with the ability to connect to a LAN and stream music files. Admittedly they are bespoke components, but I thought long and hard about buying a Linn DS and trialed one too, but couldn't justify the price when I compared it to building one myself. Open one up and look inside ;)
http://vs140.users.photofile.ru/photo/vs140/115708153/xlarge/142549305.jpg
The Vinyl Adventure
20-09-2012, 16:01
I beg to differ as a Linn DS is really nothing more than a power supply, DAC and computer in a single box with the ability to connect to a LAN and stream music files. Admittedly they are bespoke components, but I thought long and hard about buying a Linn DS and trialed one too, but couldn't justify the price when I compared it to building one myself. Open one up and look inside ;)
http://vs140.users.photofile.ru/photo/vs140/115708153/xlarge/142549305.jpg
what else would it be though?????
it has no requirement to cook toast so contains no grill elements ... ... ... ;)
Don't get me wrong Hamish, I actually really like what Linn have done and think its one of the best out there, as a complete no fuss unit at a sensible price. I just couldn't bring myself to buy one, with the knowledge and capability I have at building something comparable. If I wasn't able to build a very capable streamer, I think I would have probably bought a Linn :)
But I do disagree with the statement that its something other than a computer in a box, as it clearly isn't. But it is a very good music streamer and that's something I won't argue against, as I have heard what they can do. However, the OP has rather simplified it by saying they are 'just' computers, as I know from personal experience there is a bit more to it than that, certainly if you want something as competent as a Linn DS ;)
Patrick Dixon
20-09-2012, 19:21
I beg to differ as a Linn DS is really nothing more than a power supply, DAC and computer in a single box with the ability to connect to a LAN and stream music files. Admittedly they are bespoke components, but I thought long and hard about buying a Linn DS and trialed one too, but couldn't justify the price when I compared it to building one myself. Open one up and look inside ;)
'Linn Streamer in Electronic product just a box of Electronics shock!'
The only thing to be sorry about is that you're wrong!
Oh dear, I'm sorry if I have offended anyone by calling their expensive streamers 'computers'. Perhaps it is rather like upsetting people who don't call their very expensive, bespoke, precision engineered, stainless steel digging implement a spade?
From what I learnt so far on this subject, you can perform every function in one of these expensive boxes with a simple laptop or even a net-book. The only major thing you seem to need is a decent external DAC but I did state all that in my OP.
Notably, at the Whittlebury HiFi show yesterday, roughly half of the digital front ends were laptops, even in some of the most expensive systems (£35,500 in one instance). The most musical system in the place, to my ears, also had a laptop as a front end.
I am still tempted to get a bespoke streamer simply for convenience but I detected no obvious sound quality advantage yesterday.
The reason I raised the subject was to get advice - so thank you to those who have provided links to other sources and thank you to those who have confirmed that those expensive boxes are indeed 'just' bespoke computers.
This may be interesting for the nay-sayers..... http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/472-wadia-121-decoding-computer-dac-review/
I beg to differ as a Linn DS is really nothing more than a power supply, DAC and computer in a single box with the ability to connect to a LAN and stream music files. Admittedly they are bespoke components, but I thought long and hard about buying a Linn DS and trialed one too, but couldn't justify the price when I compared it to building one myself. Open one up and look inside ;)
http://vs140.users.photofile.ru/photo/vs140/115708153/xlarge/142549305.jpg
Computers don't have very expensive Lundahl output transformers.
I am actually quite surprised that this kit looks the business! Solid attention to digital layout and clever power supply. I expected less... should have had separate power supplies for each board though.
Computers don't have very expensive Lundahl output transformers.
I am actually quite surprised that this kit looks the business! Solid attention to digital layout and clever power supply. I expected less... should have had separate power supplies for each board though.
Agreed and I did point out that saying they were 'just' a computer was rather oversimplifying matters. Linn DS machines are as you can see very well put together and sound good too. I was merely pointing out that their basic function is much the same as computer, as is their makeup.
At least more people are starting to accept that file based audio is a credible playback platform :)
Hi Nevalti :)
Is English your first language?
No offense meant.
I was at the Whittlebury show as well and to me the Abbingdon Music Research room had by far the best computer audio setup.
They were very much NOT using a bog standard netbook and were using JRiver software, tweaked to within an inch of its life.
Windows had been customised as well.
Had a long highly technical chat with the guy there about computer audio (knowing a little about it myself) and based on his technical knowledge and experience in the industry (audio engineering not sales) its obvious that the best solution is "not just an old computer".
But as always, its your ears and your wallet, just do what makes you happy.
I'm sure no-one is offended by what your saying, its just your opinion mate.
Oh dear, I'm sorry if I have offended anyone by calling their expensive streamers 'computers'. Perhaps it is rather like upsetting people who don't call their very expensive, bespoke, precision engineered, stainless steel digging implement a spade?
From what I learnt so far on this subject, you can perform every function in one of these expensive boxes with a simple laptop or even a net-book. The only major thing you seem to need is a decent external DAC but I did state all that in my OP.
Notably, at the Whittlebury HiFi show yesterday, roughly half of the digital front ends were laptops, even in some of the most expensive systems (£35,500 in one instance). The most musical system in the place, to my ears, also had a laptop as a front end.
I am still tempted to get a bespoke streamer simply for convenience but I detected no obvious sound quality advantage yesterday.
The reason I raised the subject was to get advice - so thank you to those who have provided links to other sources and thank you to those who have confirmed that those expensive boxes are indeed 'just' bespoke computers.
This may be interesting for the nay-sayers..... http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/472-wadia-121-decoding-computer-dac-review/
Hi Nevalti :) Is English your first language? No offense meant.
I am generally very clear in my use of English. I am not sure why you have a problem understanding my words unless I have made a typo. I certainly did not use the bold words 'quoted' by you below. Do you have some ulterior motive in implying that I did or was it meant as a witticism?:scratch:
I was at the Whittlebury show as well and to me the Abbingdon Music Research room had by far the best computer audio setup.
They were very much NOT using a bog standard netbook and were using JRiver software, tweaked to within an inch of its life. Windows had been customised as well. Had a long highly technical chat with the guy there about computer audio (knowing a little about it myself) and based on his technical knowledge and experience in the industry (audio engineering not sales) its obvious that the best solution is "not just an old computer".
But as always, its your ears and your wallet, just do what makes you happy.
I'm sure no-one is offended by what your saying, its just your opinion.
I very clearly recognised in the OP that the computer needs to be optimised. I certainly did not advocate the use of "an old computer" or anything that could reasonably be interpreted that way by someone who understands English.:ner: No offense meant - of course.
In case it is of any relevance to you, I also sat in the Abbingdon Music Research room for a while. These are the notes I made at the time:
'Crisp but sometimes slightly tizzy top end, loads of power but I still question bass dynamics. Doubt good for long term but impressive for a few minutes'.
That is obviously my opinion based upon what was playing when I listened. To me, it was less than perfect but I don't expect anyone to agree with me. What you seem to have forgotten is that my OP was seeking advice, and indeed you provided some useful links, but don't worry, I can readily sift out opinions masquerading as fact - in English too ;)
If clarification is needed, what I am trying to learn about is the modification needed to a laptop to optimise it as a good music source. That is one of the reasons I went to Whittlebury and spoke to several of the users of laptops as a front end. It seems there are many opinions about that too!:rolleyes:
purite audio
25-09-2012, 12:53
Nevalti, as long as you have bit perfect output ,you can use any PC or Mac, Windowschas been bit perfect since Vista, OSX has always been bit perfect.
Players such as JRiver don't improve the sound quality, but do make editing, selection etc more convenient.
I would advise buying a well designed async USB dac, if you are going to make a computer
your primary source.
Keith
Alan Sircom
25-09-2012, 16:12
Oh dear, I'm sorry if I have offended anyone by calling their expensive streamers 'computers'. Perhaps it is rather like upsetting people who don't call their very expensive, bespoke, precision engineered, stainless steel digging implement a spade?
From what I learnt so far on this subject, you can perform every function in one of these expensive boxes with a simple laptop or even a net-book. The only major thing you seem to need is a decent external DAC but I did state all that in my OP.
Notably, at the Whittlebury HiFi show yesterday, roughly half of the digital front ends were laptops, even in some of the most expensive systems (£35,500 in one instance). The most musical system in the place, to my ears, also had a laptop as a front end.
I am still tempted to get a bespoke streamer simply for convenience but I detected no obvious sound quality advantage yesterday.
The reason I raised the subject was to get advice - so thank you to those who have provided links to other sources and thank you to those who have confirmed that those expensive boxes are indeed 'just' bespoke computers.
This may be interesting for the nay-sayers..... http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/472-wadia-121-decoding-computer-dac-review/
If you are going to be forensic in your use of language, then so will I.
An expensive 'streamer' is not a computer. It is an UPnP media renderer. Its function cannot easily be replicated by a computer, because UPnP media rendering software is usually built into the firmware of client devices from Cyrus, Linn, Moon, Naim, Revox, Squeezebox, Sonos and presumably others.
You can approximate the actions of a media renderer by using an UPnP media server (such as Twonky Media or Asset Media) on a NAS, and UPnP media client software on the local computer (such as Media Monkey), but this lacks the distributed system control provided by a dedicated UPnP media renderer, especially in a multi-renderer setting or when driven by an UPnP media control point.
If you intend on using a system in one room and one room alone, then the requirements for a file-based source are almost identical between those of an UPnP-based system and a relatively straightforward computer and DAC solution. Any perceived advantages one system has over and above the other are largely subjective and personal. There is no absolute solution to this, any more than there is an absolute solution in choice of computer hardware, software, choice of storage system, media client or choice of DAC. If however you choose to expand the system beyond a single room in the future, the absolute solution is to use UPnP renderers in the main and additional rooms, and that solution cannot currently be reliably replicated on any commercially available software solution for typical computing applications.
You could in theory rely on Twonky or Asset as Media Server software and J River or Media Monkey as Media Client, and just add a computer and a DAC in every room you decide to add to the system, but this doesn't work that well in practice.
So ultimately to call an UPnP media renderer a 'computer' and then to congratulate yourself on the precision of your terminology is as inane as pointing to a router and calling that a 'computer' too.
......An expensive 'streamer' is not a computer. It is an UPnP media renderer. Its function cannot easily be replicated by a computer, because UPnP media rendering software is usually built into the firmware of client devices from Cyrus, Linn, Moon, Naim, Revox, Squeezebox, Sonos and presumably others.............
OK, I apologise again for causing upset. I fully accept your explanation. It is perfectly clear that a streamer is in fact a highly polished, stainless steel digging implement and not a spade at all.:whistle:
Did you read this article about spades? http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...er-dac-review/
Did you read this article about spades? http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...er-dac-review/
That link is broken Martin :scratch:
OK, I apologise again for causing upset. I fully accept your explanation. It is perfectly clear that a streamer is in fact a highly polished, stainless steel digging implement and not a spade at all.:whistle:
Did you read this article about spades? http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...er-dac-review/
Nevalti,
Alan knows what he's talking about. (look under his name for a clue..)
Don't go there mate ;)
Does anyone use the nva one?
Heard it is meant to be very good.
Ali Tait
25-09-2012, 18:29
Yep, I've got one. It is indeed very good, easily better than the Touch I was using before. Even better with Nick's valve dac on the end.
At the risk of being pedantic...
Anything that can run an executable series of instructions can be classified as a computer...even an analogue one like the barrel organ the USSR used to keep their space station in orbit...fairly successfully :)
However I think there is now a distinction between multi purpose 'personal computers', and dedicated single purpose 'appliances', such as a router, a streamer, or even in the case of my M-DAC, a DAC.
Appliances usually have a hardware orientation towards their specific function, here's a good example currently being peddled by IBM (they just bought out the company).
http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/netezza/
I'm still waiting for my raspberry PI to arrive, it's not powerful enough to really be used as general purpose computer, but looks like it might be very usable as a single function 'appliance' as their are varying flavours of the OS orientated to the desired usage, web-browser, media server, music streamer...so I suppose it'll be somewhere in the middle...compliance, apputer? ;)
The Vinyl Adventure
25-09-2012, 18:37
The NVA ... Now that is a computer ...
The NVA ... Now that is a computer ...
...can it run Logitech Media Server? ;)
Even better with Nick's valve dac on the end.
What's this Ali?
Ali Tait
25-09-2012, 18:56
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13204&highlight=Ak4396
Ali Tait
25-09-2012, 18:57
...can it run Logitech Media Server? ;)
Yes, but why would you want to!
wee tee cee
25-09-2012, 19:05
on the day, the nva took on all comers.....in conjunction with the valve dac it stood head and shoulders above the others.....
...can it run Logitech Media Server? ;)
Linux..spawn of Beelzebub! :ner:
Linux..spawn of Beelzebub! :ner:
:lol: funny, not sure I would agree with that TBH, but LMS did cause me a few problems, which as I understand it, is not uncommon.
Edit: Due to some misunderstanding, i decided to remove my "finger pointing exercise" here! :) Thx GrandWazoo!
In response to the OP here are some references that might be useful if you decide NOT to cripple your PC, but leave it intact as a fully functional computer. (Which in turn is a contradiction, and one of the reasons i've gone MacApple.. :eyebrows:)
Here is one pretty good artice concerning optimization of a PC front end for audio use:
http://www.tim-carter.com/index.php?t=Optimize+Your+PC+For+Music+Production&Menu=1&SubMenuId=22&ItemId=9
And heres another one from Perreaux:
http://www.perreaux.com/blog/index.cfm/2012/8/8/How-to-Setup-USB-Audio-in-Windows-XP
Maybe useful:
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/assets/documents/AudiophileguidetobitperfectUSBAudio_ENG.pdf
et cetera et cetera
Regards
/Mike
That link is broken Martin :scratch:
Try this one: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/472-wadia-121-decoding-computer-dac-review/
......... In response to the OP here are some references that might be useful if you decide NOT to cripple your PC, but leave it intact as a fully functional computer. (Which in turn is a contradiction, and one of the reasons i've gone MacApple.. :eyebrows:) ...........
Regards
/Mike
Many thanks for those links Mike.
I would not use my existing computer but get a laptop/netbook specifically for that purpose and optimise it. I have not ruled out the easy route of a bespoke streamer regardless of whether they should be called an appliance or a computer in a pretty box. I am not convinced, by what I have heard and what I have read, that there is any advantage in spending big money on a streamer though.
I must say that the recent articles and the thread questioning the theoretical benefit of 24/192 has made me pause for thought but I'm sure I will get around to trying it if enough people claim that it really is noticeable better.
Why dont you give the Marantz NA-7004 a try? It really was a jaw dropper, for me anyways! :)
And, there's also Pioneer N-50 which is supposed to sound equally good, or better.
The Marantz has really made me doubt the benefits of using the MacMini as media renderer. (Incl Amarra, M2Tech HiFace and all the bells and whistles that make them both smash my CD to bits SQ-wise)
Regards
/Mike
Ali Tait
26-09-2012, 09:49
IMHO it is the power supply that makes the difference. The pc bit is just that. When Gary and Brian visited my place Brian brought the streamer Gary had built for him to compare to the TFS. Both were running jriver, the difference being mostly that the tfs has a bespoke power supply, and I think it.was this that lifted the performance of the tfs against Brian's server. TBH though, there was not a million miles of difference between them, the tfs was better yes, but not hugely so. As ever diminishing returns comes into the equation, you have to spend a fair bit to get that last 10-20% improvement.
Yes, but why would you want to!
Ah I see what's happened here...:doh:
Enter 'NVA computer' into google and you get this;
http://www.bunkertours.co.uk/nva_computer_centre.htm
NOT Nene Valley Audio streamer, which somewhat undermines my poor attempt at humour :doh::doh:
brian2957
26-09-2012, 11:33
This any good Will
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NVA-TFS-Computer-Hifi-Digital-Streamer-/220905606633?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item336f000de9
Why dont you give the Marantz NA-7004 a try?.......
Regards
/Mike
That looks an interesting option. It has the great advantage of taking up virtually no space because it could replace my, rarely used, FM tuner. It even includes that work of Satan.... DAB:spew:
Thanks again Mike, I am now giving the Marantz some serious consideration.
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