View Full Version : Quad ESL-57 Itch
Ammonite Audio
12-09-2012, 17:01
Sooner or later I'm going to have to give in to a growing itch and give a pair of ESL-57s house room. Even very good ones seem to be reasonably priced. Domestically, they would be easier to accommodate than the Tannoys and could be just the thing for low level listening. Am I deluding myself?
Ali Tait
12-09-2012, 17:18
Nope. In some ways they are still unmatched IMHO.
kininigin
12-09-2012, 18:49
Every now and again,when at a customers house,i get to view some nice systems but never get to hear them,despite my enthusiasm to do just that :lol:
Anyway the other week,i heard some Quad ESL-57's for the first time (i forget what was driving them,was an SS amp though).I must admit i was impressed,(although he didn't have his sub set up!!) they were unlike anything i've ever heard,which isn't much truth be told.
We had a little discussion about hi-fi,i told him what i had,when i mentioned a had a tt,he called me a philistine,he was at least twice the age of me :lol:
He was very much into computer audio and mentioned a program called Ambiophonics.It cuts out crosstalk or something,i'm not too savvy on the details,anyway when i had a second listen,i couldn't believe what i was hearing.
The soundstage had literary tripled in every direction!! It was super wide,deep and high.I don't know if the same effect can be had from 'box speakers' but it was very impressive,from the short time i heard them anyway.
Wakefield Turntables
12-09-2012, 19:04
Sooner or later I'm going to have to give in to a growing itch and give a pair of ESL-57s house room. Even very good ones seem to be reasonably priced. Domestically, they would be easier to accommodate than the Tannoys and could be just the thing for low level listening. Am I deluding myself?
I'd just buy a pair you will not look back. They sound great through either SS or valves. :eyebrows:
Ali Tait
12-09-2012, 19:13
Better with valves IMHO.
I recently heard a pair with original spec Quad II's and they were awesome. You need to get them away from the wall a bit though to improve the bass. Used prices are low because they're not cheap to restore.
Wakefield Turntables
12-09-2012, 19:51
buy a pair from one thing audio. Yes they can be pricey but they are probably the best people to restore the 57's IMHO.
you've got to scratch that itch, i know i had to and glad i did :D
They do things other speakers just can't do ;)
phoenixpete
12-09-2012, 20:19
Scratch that itch :lol:
Best speakers I have ever had, they do need careful positioning and there is a definite sweet spot but they are just so good and plenty of bass in my setup.
First picture just to get you excited.:D Packed ready for their new home.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p294/phoenixpete_2006/P8290255.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p294/phoenixpete_2006/P3220058.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p294/phoenixpete_2006/Picture081.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p294/phoenixpete_2006/P6280005.jpg
spendorman
12-09-2012, 20:27
Every now and again,when at a customers house,i get to view some nice systems but never get to hear them,despite my enthusiasm to do just that :lol:
Anyway the other week,i heard some Quad ESL-57's for the first time (i forget what was driving them,was an SS amp though).I must admit i was impressed,(although he didn't have his sub set up!!) they were unlike anything i've ever heard,which isn't much truth be told.
We had a little discussion about hi-fi,i told him what i had,when i mentioned a had a tt,he called me a philistine,he was at least twice the age of me :lol:
He was very much into computer audio and mentioned a program called Ambiophonics.It cuts out crosstalk or something,i'm not too savvy on the details,anyway when i had a second listen,i couldn't believe what i was hearing.
The soundstage had literary tripled in every direction!! It was super wide,deep and high.I don't know if the same effect can be had from 'box speakers' but it was very impressive,from the short time i heard them anyway.
Not used my 57's in years, must get the dust off them and refresh my ears.
Thought that I might check out this Ambisonic software. Went to the site, had a look, saw the samples of unprocessed and processed sound files, tried a few, and through my Tannoy HPD315's the unprocessed sounded better to me.
http://www.ambiophonics.org/Demos.html
kininigin
12-09-2012, 20:54
Not used my 57's in years, must get the dust off them and refresh my ears.
Thought that I might check out this Ambisonic software. Went to the site, had a look, saw the samples of unprocessed and processed sound files, tried a few, and through my Tannoy HPD315's the unprocessed sounded better to me.
http://www.ambiophonics.org/Demos.html
Fair enough,but through the Quads it was a night and day difference.There may have been some other 'magic' at work here,i'm not sure though!
He did mention that you had to have the right type of recording,something to do with mike placement.I have looked at the site but that's about it,found it abit confusing to be honest and couldn't be arsed with faffing about.
I've got a fooked speaker now,so doesn't really matter atm :lol:
Ammonite Audio
13-09-2012, 01:58
You were all supposed to talk me out of this!
Audio Al
13-09-2012, 03:36
You were all supposed to talk me out of this!
Was we :lol:
All I can say is " DO IT " :eyebrows:
Did that help :D
jandl100
13-09-2012, 07:02
57s? Yep, they can be great speakers.
They can also be dull and amazingly boring in some setups.
I have yet to figure out why this is so!
... it's quite possible that it's nothing to do with the systems I have heard them in, but is down to the state of the speakers themselves, and the boring ones needed some TLC. :scratch:
Good with valves? Yep.
But also very nice with a Krell KSA50 :)
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/QuadKrellLarry.jpg
57s? Yep, they can be great speakers.
They can also be dull and amazingly boring in some setups.
I have yet to figure out why this is so!
... it's quite possible that it's nothing to do with the systems I have heard them in, but is down to the state of the speakers themselves, and the boring ones needed some TLC. :scratch:
Good with valves? Yep.
But also very nice with a Krell KSA50 :)
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/QuadKrellLarry.jpg
EHT units needing a rebuild can cause them to sound dull, and all will unless they were serviced.
Richard
Ammonite Audio
13-09-2012, 15:38
Is it worth looking at rebuilt ESL-57s from One Thing Audio? They are not cheap, but may represent good value.
northwest
13-09-2012, 15:55
Is it worth looking at rebuilt ESL-57s from One Thing Audio? They are not cheap, but may represent good value.
Or do it yourself and do it right:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18711
(not that I am suggesting for one second One Thing are doing it "wrong")
Sooner or later I'm going to have to give in to a growing itch and give a pair of ESL-57s house room. Even very good ones seem to be reasonably priced. Domestically, they would be easier to accommodate than the Tannoys and could be just the thing for low level listening. Am I deluding myself?
Not sure about that.
The best i've heard them was a third into the room.
Ammonite Audio
13-09-2012, 16:02
My DIY skills are OK in terms of being able to solder properly and to tidy up my Lancaster cabinets with elbow-grease and Danish Oil, but I don't feel at all confident with playing with ESL-57s. I would rather buy something that has already been serviced (properly). Proper respect to you for the job you've done on your ESL-57s.
Ammonite Audio
13-09-2012, 16:09
Not sure about that.
The best i've heard them was a third into the room.
What I meant was that the Quads are fairly easy to push out of the way when not in use and to drag out to a suitable position for a listening session. My own house, which I shall be moving back into before long, is a Victorian terrace with relatively poor sound insulation (possibly better sound insulation than most modern ones, perhaps?), so I do like the idea of something that will play really good music at low levels. My Avalons are truly great, but need to be stoked; the Tannoys are just too bulky for a small house and will have to go once I've updated them and restored the cabinets.
What I meant was that the Quads are fairly easy to push out of the way when not in use and to drag out to a suitable position for a listening session. My own house, which I shall be moving back into before long, is a Victorian terrace with relatively poor sound insulation (possibly better sound insulation than most modern ones, perhaps?), so I do like the idea of something that will play really good music at low levels. My Avalons are truly great, but need to be stoked; the Tannoys are just too bulky for a small house and will have to go once I've updated them and restored the cabinets.
Ah i see.
wee tee cee
13-09-2012, 16:30
I managed to get a pair of 63s recently and can honestly say it is the nicest noise I have ever heard in my room.They are quite fussy placement wise and do need a bit of breathing space. Once you find the sweet spot for them they are easy to move out the way when your not listening.
they have plenty of bass for my taste and go plenty loud unless you need your trousers flapping.
With an active pre they can be driven well with a mini t or temple bantum both of which sound superb.Ali sorted me out with two valve mono blocks and they really do sound something special together.
I wanted statics for 25 years and must say they were worth waiting for,people say you should never meet your heroes....I wasn't disappointed at all.
If you can,get a pair...life is too short.
Ali Tait
13-09-2012, 17:39
Yep, statics are great IMHO.
Ammonite Audio
17-09-2012, 17:06
Update: I've bought a pair of ESL-57s off a well-known auction site (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-ESL-57-Electrostatic-Speakers-/330790467486?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item4d04a5f79e). They have been modified with the acclaimed One Thing upgrades (probably not the very latest panels, though) and I believe I am paying a good price. My mate Tom is hopefully going to take delivery of them, and to test them out.
Wakefield Turntables
17-09-2012, 17:29
Well done that man! I paid £1400 for my pair, but they did have every upgrade available applied to them by OTA. I think you will be very very happy.
Well done Hugo.
You got them for a good price - I paid £120 for mine, but that was way back in 1974 and they were mint.
Don't worry if they don't have the One Thing Audio upgrades - the originals were/are better: even though Quad now ask OTA to do all Quad 57 repair work these days, having sold the jigs to a German company.
I've used mine for nearly 40 years and I don't think I'll be changing to anything else. They have their shortcomings, but what they do well they do very well and nothing else comes close.
I'm reminded by a post I read on another audio site from a cello player who made recordings. He said when his recordings were played on good quality speakers it sounded exactly like a cello - when played back on Quad 57s it sounded exactly like his cello. Say no more!
Audio Al
17-09-2012, 20:28
Update: I've bought a pair of ESL-57s
Well done and welcome to the ESL 57 club :eyebrows::D
Good price - but if I read the description right, they only have the OTA clamps? Budget on at least an EHT rebuild if they haven't been fully serviced since manufacture. Truly fantastic speakers!
Richard
Only having the OT clamps s good. The OT treble panel is not like the original and I ended up asking OT for some originals to swap back in.
Everyone should hear a pair of 57s at some point during their lives, and a friend once commented to me that 57s should be prescribed on the NHS.
The connection they can establish between the ears and music is unsurpassed in the mid and top - truly a direct coupled experience. Hearing 57s forced me to completely rethink my views on audio and I now have 57s and 63s that are going nowhere, ever!
Other than keeping them clear of the rear wall, don't get too hung-up on placement within the room, but do ensure that you are perfectly on axis with the treble panels. There is some rear damping at the back of the 57 which is missing form the later designs and this eases placement concerns a little. Contrary to popular opinion they like small rooms, because they cannot play at very high SPLs and really sing as near-field loudspeakers.
The sound coming from that mid/treble panel is simply delicious, so get in nice and close and lick it!
Amplifier choice is critical to best performance.
The impedance of the 57 swings between 30 and 1 Ohm (yes 1), being high in the bass and low in the treble. Therefore most valve amplifiers are not suitable as they cause very obvious treble roll-off due to their high output impedance. Just do the maths, its simple physics. If you must use valves, a vintage Radford, Leak or Quad is probably best since these were designed for lowest output impedance, and none of this modern aversion to using NFB ;)
More than 20w is a waste since it will just arc the panel or turn to heat in the clamp circuit.
They don't go particularly low and there is nothing below 40Hz, but if you find the bass a little warm, lift them up about 10" from the floor and tilt them forward a little to restore the listener angle.
Sit about 2m from them, bang-on axis, cue some Diana Krall and experience heaven on earth.
Rob
Ammonite Audio
18-09-2012, 02:55
I have a little logistical problem and maybe someone on here will be able to assist. The speakers are in a shop in Sutton Coldfield, and they can be sent by courier but I'm not that keen on having them thrown around a CityLink van.
Is anyone likely to be going past Sutton Coldfield, heading South towards Reading? Tom (Montesquieu of this parish), did offer to meet the seller half way between his home and Sutton Coldfield, but the seller does not have a car. So, if anyone is travelling from the Midlands towards the M4 corridor, Tom can meet up and then look after the speakers until my return from abroad next month. The alternative is to leave them with the seller until I can collect them myself.
Thank you to anyone who can help. I will, of course, pay all costs.
jandl100
18-09-2012, 09:36
..... Amplifier choice is critical to best performance.
The impedance of the 57 swings between 30 and 1 Ohm (yes 1), being high in the bass and low in the treble. Therefore most valve amplifiers are not suitable as they cause very obvious treble roll-off due to their high output impedance. Just do the maths, its simple physics.
:doh:
Yup, of course - and I think that would explain many/all of my "dull Quad 57 experiences" now that I think of it!
Ali Tait
18-09-2012, 10:39
Only having the OT clamps s good. The OT treble panel is not like the original and I ended up asking OT for some originals to swap back in.
Everyone should hear a pair of 57s at some point during their lives, and a friend once commented to me that 57s should be prescribed on the NHS.
The connection they can establish between the ears and music is unsurpassed in the mid and top - truly a direct coupled experience. Hearing 57s forced me to completely rethink my views on audio and I now have 57s and 63s that are going nowhere, ever!
Other than keeping them clear of the rear wall, don't get too hung-up on placement within the room, but do ensure that you are perfectly on axis with the treble panels. There is some rear damping at the back of the 57 which is missing form the later designs and this eases placement concerns a little. Contrary to popular opinion they like small rooms, because they cannot play at very high SPLs and really sing as near-field loudspeakers.
The sound coming from that mid/treble panel is simply delicious, so get in nice and close and lick it!
Amplifier choice is critical to best performance.
The impedance of the 57 swings between 30 and 1 Ohm (yes 1), being high in the bass and low in the treble. Therefore most valve amplifiers are not suitable as they cause very obvious treble roll-off due to their high output impedance. Just do the maths, its simple physics. If you must use valves, a vintage Radford, Leak or Quad is probably best since these were designed for lowest output impedance, and none of this modern aversion to using NFB ;)
More than 20w is a waste since it will just arc the panel or turn to heat in the clamp circuit.
They don't go particularly low and there is nothing below 40Hz, but if you find the bass a little warm, lift them up about 10" from the floor and tilt them forward a little to restore the listener angle.
Sit about 2m from them, bang-on axis, cue some Diana Krall and experience heaven on earth.
Rob
Agree with your comments on the speakers, but I found the valve amps I used with my pair to be a very good match. I mostly used a pair of WAD PSE 300b's, which I thought sounded superb. I also used an original wooden sleeve Sugden A21 which I thought a good match too. A direct coupled valve amp is an ideal way to drive statics, and is easily the best sound I've ever heard from my Acorns.
Agree with your comments on the speakers, but I found the valve amps I used with my pair to be a very good match. I mostly used a pair of WAD PSE 300b's, which I thought sounded superb. I also used an original wooden sleeve Sugden A21 which I thought a good match too. A direct coupled valve amp is an ideal way to drive statics, and is easily the best sound I've ever heard from my Acorns.
Results with valve amps will vary far more than with SS, but all will give some degree of treble droop. That's not to say a listener can't enjoy the sound of course, but the pairing will act as a tone control akin to turning down the treble.
The easiest way to show this would be to look at the 57 impedance plot.
As amplifier output impedance increases, the loudspeaker response is progressively pulled into resembling the impedance curve. Matching 57s with most tube amps is like matching two extremes. Valve amp output impedance spans quite a range from sub 1 Ohm to over 8 Ohms. Anything near the latter figure will seriously reduce treble from a 57.
IIRC the WAD has 300Bs in parallel and had the option to apply a reasonable dollop of NFB.
Dispensing with the input transformers and coupling a transformerless valve output stage direct to the plates should theoretically sound wonderful. I didn't know it had been achieved in practice outside of TdP's lab?
:doh:
Yup, of course - and I think that would explain many/all of my "dull Quad 57 experiences" now that I think of it!
Could well be Jerry, and the same goes for 63s though to a lesser degree.
Rob
Ali Tait
18-09-2012, 19:05
Yes, Nick (Lurcher) built me a breadboard prototype just using what he had to hand, and two pairs of my stock of 813 valves. In a lot of ways it was the best sound I've ever heard from a hi fi, though lacking in bass due to the parts used. The sorted version will use GM70's. Not a cheap undertaking though, the iron alone has cost 2k.
I have seen a couple of commercial offerings in the past, including one solid state one believe it or not! All had stratospheric prices though.
Ammonite Audio
18-10-2012, 16:41
It's been very interesting listening to the ESL-57s. Any qualms that I may have had regarding the suitability of my Lyngdorf digital amp with these speakers have been completely dispelled - this could be as good a match as is possible. The 57s are, of course, most at home with classical and particularly chamber music, but they do go loud when pressed. The bass is rather limited and is possibly the only thing that I'm unhappy about - taking the final movement of Mahler's Symphony No8, Solti and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra (Linn 96/24 download) the part where the organ starts to well up is completely lost with the 57s and they do get a bit stressed when the piece gets really under way. These speakers really do need a separate sub-woofer. Fortunately, my Lyngdorf amp has a built-in DSP crossover function so all that is needed is a separate power amp and ideally some Lyngdorf boundary woofers. A combination of 57s and a really good stereo sub-woofer system could be nigh on perfect.
My 57s do not have their original legs, having instead a pedestal stand similar in concept to the OTA stands, albeit rather plainly made out of wood and heavy (lead?) filled flower pots! I want original legs for my 57s, and found these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-ESL57-ESL-57-feet-foot-full-set-six-6-leg-legs-DOWEL-PIN-base-fitting-/160885924672?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3 D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D2831575590363174415%26pid%3 D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D160885924672% 26)on eBay. Anyone had any experience of these particular legs?
Ali Tait
18-10-2012, 17:07
The difficulty is finding or making a sub that will keep up with the speakers. Not easy to do with statics.
Ammonite Audio
20-10-2012, 14:48
A bit of research about suitable legs for my 57s has yielded something of a potential gem - ESL.Labs in Holland ( http://quadesl.nl/en/ ). They do sets of new legs, visually very much like the originals, although stronger and neater, and in different lengths (http://quadesl.nl/quad-esl-onderdelen/quad-esl-voeten.html):
http://quadesl.nl/img/quad-esl-pootjes.jpg
I need to do a bit of playing around to work out the optimum leg height, but 20cm is similar to the current pedestal stand, so I'll probably go for those.
Their prices for Quad ESL service look pretty good too - see http://quadesl.nl/en/quad-esl-repair.html
Ammonite Audio
20-10-2012, 18:10
I do like this:
http://www.quad-musik.de/assets/images/CF000060_1.jpg
wee tee cee
21-10-2012, 15:58
I do like this:
http://www.quad-musik.de/assets/images/CF000060_1.jpg
They look tremendous...I hope they give you as much pleasure as my 63s have...I dont think i will ever return to conventional speakers..
Someone said they should be available on the NHS...Fully agree, hi fi tonic!!!!! cures all sonic ills!!!
Ammonite Audio
21-10-2012, 17:40
They look tremendous...I hope they give you as much pleasure as my 63s have...I dont think i will ever return to conventional speakers..
Someone said they should be available on the NHS...Fully agree, hi fi tonic!!!!! cures all sonic ills!!!
My brother is in the furniture design business and is going to ask about making up wood frames similar to the one shown above. I'll incorporate an adjustable back leg and Stillpoints OEM feet, for good measure!
All this talk of totally inappropriate amps and yet no-one takes a Quad amp seriously!
The 303 sounds sublime with 57's, is transformed with reduced gain and a modern good preamp driving it. With the limiters in the 57's, a 405-2 is very good and the 606 series amazing - IMO. All these power amps need is a thorough going over, the gain of older ones optimised for modern line drivers (a resistor per channel is all that's needed) and a top quality modern source and preamp!
I dunno, mutter mutter..........
All this talk of totally inappropriate amps and yet no-one takes a Quad amp seriously!
The 303 sounds sublime with 57's, is transformed with reduced gain and a modern good preamp driving it. With the limiters in the 57's, a 405-2 is very good and the 606 series amazing - IMO. All these power amps need is a thorough going over, the gain of older ones optimised for modern line drivers (a resistor per channel is all that's needed) and a top quality modern source and preamp!
I dunno, mutter mutter..........
Mutter.....mutter........ if you reduce the input sensitivity by reducing the gain around the input op amp you also reduce its contribution to the total amplifier THD and noise. Well worth it on a 405. Far greater dividend than 'upgrading' the op amp which achieves virtually nothing in this circuit, though you might as well bung in an OPA134 while the cover is off for the princely sum of £2 and gain 1dB S/N improvement ;)
Whack the input sensitive down to 1.25v from the factory set 500mv.
If you run a Quad pre, adjust it's output resistor pad network to increase output to compensate. The pre amps are actually padded down considerably as standard.
Rob
Firebottle
22-10-2012, 06:42
'upgrading' the op amp which achieves virtually nothing in this circuit,
Rob
I upgraded from the LMxxx rubbish and it improved tremendously. Gain was also lowered and pcbs recapped. The bootstrap caps had lost most of their capacitance :rolleyes:
The 405 still sounds woolly at the bottom end and veiled generally compared to the OTL amp.
A good OTL gets my vote with electrostatics,
Alan
Ammonite Audio
22-10-2012, 08:18
All this amp stuff is interesting in itself, for someone using, or contemplating using Quad amps.
Going back to 57s - has anyone played around with stand height; and is there any consensus regarding the optimum height? I suspect this rather depends on the room and how close the listener is sitting to the speakers, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has actually tried out different stand solutions. I should add that I am not contemplating any sort of pillar stand, eg Ruperts or similar, since they all look ghastly.
Firebottle
22-10-2012, 10:40
I had these made for me, they are 23cm tall and make the panels almost vertical. The sound was very good.
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt97/Paramotorpilot/P1020833.jpg
Cheers, Alan
Mutter.....mutter........ if you reduce the input sensitivity by reducing the gain around the input op amp you also reduce its contribution to the total amplifier THD and noise. Well worth it on a 405. Far greater dividend than 'upgrading' the op amp which achieves virtually nothing in this circuit, though you might as well bung in an OPA134 while the cover is off for the princely sum of £2 and gain 1dB S/N improvement ;)
Whack the input sensitive down to 1.25v from the factory set 500mv.
If you run a Quad pre, adjust it's output resistor pad network to increase output to compensate. The pre amps are actually padded down considerably as standard.
Rob
The original LM301 op-amp was a dog. Later changed in the MkII to a TL071, which was better. Agree on reducing the sensitivity of the 405 to 1V or less, however the figure of 500mV was chosen to make the 405 compatable with the 33 preamp.
The original LM301 op-amp was a dog. Later changed in the MkII to a TL071, which was better. Agree on reducing the sensitivity of the 405 to 1V or less, however the figure of 500mV was chosen to make the 405 compatable with the 33 preamp.
Yes, I'm talking about swapping from the TL071. Only very early 405-1s had the LM.
A good OTL gets my vote with electrostatics,
Alan
It's the worst possible combination if you want to hear a 57 as intended, closely followed by SETs unless you like the effect of turning down the treble, in which case, do it properly with EQ.
OTLs and SETs have considerable output impedance compared to most PP tube amps and virtually all SS amps, and the 57 impedance drops like a stone at HF. The combination will absolutely guarantee a severely rolled-off treble.
Rob
All this amp stuff is interesting in itself, for someone using, or contemplating using Quad amps.
Going back to 57s - has anyone played around with stand height; and is there any consensus regarding the optimum height? I suspect this rather depends on the room and how close the listener is sitting to the speakers, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has actually tried out different stand solutions. I should add that I am not contemplating any sort of pillar stand, eg Ruperts or similar, since they all look ghastly.
Whichever solution you adopt, some form of adjusting the tilt is extremely useful. You can either do this by raising/lowering the back of the 57 where it meets the stand, or use adjustable spikes on the stand.
About a foot from the floor seems about ideal in most rooms. Any further and what does exist in the lower octaves (and it isn't much) goes awol.
Rob
Ammonite Audio
23-10-2012, 05:40
Whichever solution you adopt, some form of adjusting the tilt is extremely useful. You can either do this by raising/lowering the back of the 57 where it meets the stand, or use adjustable spikes on the stand.
About a foot from the floor seems about ideal in most rooms. Any further and what does exist in the lower octaves (and it isn't much) goes awol.
Rob
Thanks - that's pretty much what I was contemplating.
The 57s are utterly beguiling and must be keepers - I do miss the bass extension control of the Avalons and Tannoys but there must be a way of dealing with that. Having read up a bit on subwoofers, and particularly the Gradient dipoles and their limitations, I have an idea for something that could potentially be incorporated within the stands, controlled via the DSP crossover in my Lyngdorf amplifier.
Firebottle
23-10-2012, 07:02
The combination will absolutely guarantee a severely rolled-off treble.
Rob
Maybe with some OTLs Rob, I haven't got that problem with mine :)
It's a slightly modified home built Trancendent Sound OTL.
Cheers, Alan
Ali Tait
23-10-2012, 09:11
Or if it's a direct coupled OTL.
Ammonite Audio
02-11-2012, 13:04
I wonder how these little REL T-Zero subs (http://rel.net/products/serie-t/t-zero/) would go with ESL-57s? They are only 10" high, so might even work as a stand for the Quads. At £349 each they look like good value; and I couldn't build anything much cheaper.
Ali Tait
02-11-2012, 15:42
As I mentioned before, it's very difficult to get a cone driver to keep up with statics in my experience. Might be worth a try though, maybe you can get one on dem?
Ammonite Audio
12-12-2012, 16:25
The ESL-57s are very good at what they do well; indeed they are utterly captivating with light ensemble music. But I am forced to confront some significant drawbacks, most notably their size, relative lack of bass and limited dynamics which can lead to a tubby bloated sound when fed bassy material at reasonable volume. I bought the Quads with the idea that they would work well in a reasonably small room (and they can), being brought out from a cupboard and positioned as required for a listening session. The really big fly in that ointment is the time taken for the Quads to charge up properly - they do need a few hours at least, so impulsive listening is not possible unless they are powered up permanently.
So what does this mean? Well, I have to admit that, while unmatched in the right environment with the right music material, the Quads are not really suitable for me and I really need to find a good home for them. It's been interesting putting the Tannoys back in the living room - they are original and sound a bit congested (as I would if I had to communicate through that heavy grille material) but very musical, even sat on the carpet without being lifted up, with deep and well-defined bass! I did not even realise that there was a slight hum issue with my SUT (resolved with an extra earth wire) until I put the Tannoys in! The Tannoys do look very compact, compared to the Quads!
It's been a lovely experience having the ESL-57s and one day I might have enough space to accommodate a pair.
daytona600
12-12-2012, 19:05
Go the whole hog and buy stacked quads , Stats do sound superb
The ESL-57s are very good at what they do well; indeed they are utterly captivating with light ensemble music. But I am forced to confront some significant drawbacks, most notably their size, relative lack of bass and limited dynamics which can lead to a tubby bloated sound when fed bassy material at reasonable volume. I bought the Quads with the idea that they would work well in a reasonably small room (and they can), being brought out from a cupboard and positioned as required for a listening session. The really big fly in that ointment is the time taken for the Quads to charge up properly - they do need a few hours at least, so impulsive listening is not possible unless they are powered up permanently.
So what does this mean? Well, I have to admit that, while unmatched in the right environment with the right music material, the Quads are not really suitable for me and I really need to find a good home for them. It's been interesting putting the Tannoys back in the living room - they are original and sound a bit congested (as I would if I had to communicate through that heavy grille material) but very musical, even sat on the carpet without being lifted up, with deep and well-defined bass! I did not even realise that there was a slight hum issue with my SUT (resolved with an extra earth wire) until I put the Tannoys in! The Tannoys do look very compact, compared to the Quads!
It's been a lovely experience having the ESL-57s and one day I might have enough space to accommodate a pair.
Respect your decision Hugo.
You have carefully considered what you want from your system, and made a sensible choice.
The limitations and shortcomings of the Quad '57s are well know. From my point of view, having used a (single) pair for the last 38 years, is that I can live with their shortcomings given their strengths. For me, no other speaker reproduces the human voice as well as the Quads, and their transparency, neutrality, speed and focus is well known.
Yes, I would love them to do better (deeper) bass, be able to be played louder and didn't 'beam' (meaning the superb soundstaging is only really available to a single listener), but given that ,I don't think I would ever change them. Just stack them - if only I had the room. :rolleyes:
I'm sure you have told us - but which model Tannoys are the ones you use?
Ammonite Audio
12-12-2012, 20:39
Go the whole hog and buy stacked quads , Stats do sound superb
Please note my reference to 'small rooms'.
I'm sure you have told us - but which model Tannoys are the ones you use?
They are Lancasters with 15" Monitor Golds. In the New Year I'm going to refresh the crossovers, replace the wiring, replace the grille cloth and apply a great deal of elbow grease and Danish Oil to the cabinets. The cabinets are really too small for the 15" MG driver and I'm tempted to do some empirical testing with aperiodic vents, to simulate a larger cabinet volume.
Respect your decision Hugo.
You have carefully considered what you want from your system, and made a sensible choice.
The limitations and shortcomings of the Quad '57s are well know. From my point of view, having used a (single) pair for the last 38 years, is that I can live with their shortcomings given their strengths. For me, no other speaker reproduces the human voice as well as the Quads, and their transparency, neutrality, speed and focus is well known.
Yes, I would love them to do better (deeper) bass, be able to be played louder and didn't 'beam' (meaning the superb soundstaging is only really available to a single listener), but given that ,I don't think I would ever change them. Just stack them - if only I had the room. :rolleyes:
Addressing those drawbacks resulted in the 63.
Worth a go particularly if the beaming and lack of bass are a problem. They'll play a bit louder too.
The mid is a little different. On the 57 there is some lower treble boost which makes things sound really open and intimate. You can EQ a 63 to replicate this if required.
Rob
jandl100
17-12-2012, 06:48
... The mid is a little different. On the 57 there is some lower treble boost which makes things sound really open and intimate. You can EQ a 63 to replicate this if required.
Rob
Hmm. Interesting comment.
Just listening to plain vanilla 63 vs 57, 'baby/bathwater' syndrome comes to mind, as the 63 seems to lose a lot of the magic that made the 57 special.
Is it really just down to a lower treble boost in the 57? :scratch:
My heart tells me no, but now my head isn't so sure!
Ammonite Audio
05-03-2013, 17:55
Today I delivered my ESL-57s to One Thing for their full refurbishment service. My speakers had new HT boards fitted in 2003 but have original panels, and they are obviously tired. While I was there they put on some just-fettled 57s for me - OMG what a difference over what I'm used to! I know that some people think that 'original' Quad panels are best, but what is 'original'? It's fair to say that, if Peter Walker was designing and manufacturing the 57 today, he would be using the materials that One Thing employ. The One Thing 57s are clearly magnificent things.
After wasting time and money on my Tannoy adventure, I know that these old 57s are going to be the Dog's Bits when they come back. Can't wait!
Audioman
05-03-2013, 18:47
One Thing also do a similar refurb for the ESL63. There was a pair at Scalford sounding very good. Frankly prefer the 63 from an Aesthetic point of view anyway.
Ammonite Audio
06-03-2013, 08:02
One Thing also do a similar refurb for the ESL63. There was a pair at Scalford sounding very good. Frankly prefer the 63 from an Aesthetic point of view anyway.
Mine will hopefully end up looking like this:
http://www.quad-musik.de/assets/images/CF000060_1.jpg
Ammonite Audio
26-03-2013, 17:47
One Thing have just told me that my ESL-57s will be ready to come back this week. Great service, but sadly I won't be able to use them for at least a month because of moving stuff around :(
Ninanina
26-03-2013, 20:42
I had a pair of ESL 57's and they really are superb
If I had the room for them I would have a pair
They absolutely MUST be placed a couple of feet at least from the back wall, other than that just excellent speakers
Dingdong
26-03-2013, 21:25
I really want to try these.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-Stacked-Quad-Electrostatic-ESL-57-Speakers-4-Speakers-Total-/390564213130?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item5aef70f18a
But I just don't think they are going to fit.
dantheman91
26-03-2013, 21:27
Ahh nice and local i know the guy..his house my god
I really want to try these.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-Stacked-Quad-Electrostatic-ESL-57-Speakers-4-Speakers-Total-/390564213130?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item5aef70f18a
But I just don't think they are going to fit.
you really ought to try them they do things no other speakers can, the only down side is the sweet spot it tends to be very small
Dingdong
26-03-2013, 21:53
you really ought to try them they do things no other speakers can, the only down side is the sweet spot it tends to be very small
My listening room tends to be small too.
I've heard a pair of One Thing 57's and they do sound very nice indeed.
potatoha
26-03-2013, 22:45
Let me scratch that itch for you. I've had 8 pairs of 57s throughout my hifi history and still listen to a stacked pair day to day. The smallest room I had with my stacked 57s was 3m x 4m in dimension and it sounded great as long as there was 1m (1/3 of room length) behind them to counter bipolar dispersion. Toe-in is a must for smaller room. It was set up like nearfield monitors but they just disappear from your sight like magic as soon as you press play...
southall-1998
26-03-2013, 23:03
Someday I would like to hear this ESL-57.
StanleyB
27-03-2013, 06:44
Quickly followed by a private listing in the classified a few weeks later. There is only one JLAND100 :eyebrows:.
Ammonite Audio
27-03-2013, 06:49
Quickly followed by a private listing in the classified a few weeks later. There is only one JLAND100 :eyebrows:.
Eh? :scratch:
StanleyB
27-03-2013, 07:47
Eh? :scratch:
I was replaying to Shane :). See the classifieds ;).
Ammonite Audio
27-03-2013, 13:54
I was replaying to Shane :). See the classifieds ;).
Ah! :doh:
Coincidentally, Quad Service rang today to tell me that my Quad 34/306/FM4 are finished and will be sent out today. So, I shall at least be able to hook the 57s up to something half reasonable, until the main system migrates to Norwich from Farnborough.
wee tee cee
27-03-2013, 16:54
I will be really interested to read your impressions of what the one thing have done to them.My 63s could do with some tlc and I just need the encouragement to assure me its worth it.
Ammonite Audio
27-03-2013, 18:28
Well, if what I heard from 57s while I was at their premises is anything to go by, you can expect a much more vibrant and open sound, with rather greater bass extension than before. It was shocking to hear how my 57s had deteriorated from the 'original' Quad spec. They had some 63s in there too, but I didn't hear any.
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