voltage line conditioner!!

[bkgengwe]

I wish somebody had told me about this before. I got meself some power regulator because I lost two cdp to power surges. the device also conditions the power, i.e. it "cleans the power". I got the surprise of my life! bass was clean, tight and more localised, not boomy and all over the place, the highs were sweeter, I even listen at volumes that I could not before because i thought the amp clipped, I listen for hours to music and could never ever get enough!! I always believed that my system was hihgend sound, but after this, i think it is ultra high end sound :).

[synsei]

Well, there's plenty on AoS from peeps who espouse the virtues of mains conditioning Boikanyo. I had a similar revelation to yours when I introduced a Belkin PF30 into my system. However, there is a consensus, which I can confirm, that it is best to plug amplifiers directly into the mains. ;)

[PLINIUS]

Another inexpensive upgrade is to get an old isolating transformer from your local Recycling Centre, price $10-$20. Plug it into your system & hear the difference. Those who suffer high voltage fluctuations & dirty power will benefit most.

[dave2010]

Well, there's plenty on AoS from peeps who espouse the virtues of mains conditioning Boikanyo. I had a similar revelation to yours when I introduced a Belkin PF30 into my system. However, there is a consensus, which I can confirm, that it is best to plug amplifiers directly into the mains. ;)Your post is slightly confusing. Your personal experiences would seem to indicate that you approve of some form of mains conditioning unit, then you quote the "consensus" of others. Are you saying that the consensus is wrong, or that despite your own personal feelings it may be best to do what "everyone else" does?

I note also that some other respondents live outside the UK. The UK is mostly fortunate in having a good power distribution system. Mains conditioning units may be able to stabilise the power to a greater and worthwile extent in places where the power supply is more erratic. There are I guess just a few possible reasons why a mains conditioning unit might work. 1. They might stablise the power to an amp under varying load. 2 they might reduce mains borne interference and 3. they might reduce RF interrference. I use the word "might" deliberately - I am not suggesting that any of these will actually happen.

Chances are that if conditioning units are cheap and have obvious benefits many would use them, but if, on the other hand they are expensive and have few obvious benefits, those few who buy them will not be willing to admit that they have minimal effect.

Amps and other equipment, if designed and made well, should be able to overcome most problems and produce good results, but note the wording - "if designed and made well."

[synsei]

Dave, I read a thread where advice was offered, I gave it a go and voila, my amp did sound better plugged directly into a socket. The rest of my equipment sounds better plugged into the PF30, what is so confusing about that? :scratch:

I'll let others respond to the latter section of your post because it is ill informed and I really can't be bothered...

[dave2010]

Dave, I read a thread where advice was offered, I gave it a go and voila, my amp did sound better plugged directly into a socket. The rest of my equipment sounds better plugged into the PF30, what is so confusing about that? :scratch:
Dave, that clarifies your position considerably. Thanks.

Do you have any explanation for this? There is no need for one, of course, if it works for you. It could be that there are so many variables that each situation has to be tweaked in its own way, but if there are any general justifications it'd be good to know about them too.

PS: This review of the PF30 seems reasonable, but not totally conclusive or persuasive - http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/hi-fi-accessories/belkin-pureav-pf30-94279/review?artc_pg=1

[synsei]

Bear with me because I'm not at all technically minded, but apparently it's to do with the current handling capabilities of mains conditioners and how that can influence what the amp can draw. Amps draw a lot of current dealing with bass transients and if there isn't enough headroom available it can limit the bass performance of the amp. It's a matter of 'horses for courses', which is more important, good bass or cleaner mains? In my case I heard a big improvement hooking it up directly to the socket, this may not be the case for others, depending on the equipment used and cleanliness of the supplied mains.

Mind you, the above result was gleaned using a Hafler DH220 power amp. I've since moved over to using an Amptastic Mini-T as a power amp so it might be worthwhile trying out the comparison again...

p.s. I hope that all makes sense to you because I'm just up, still struggling towards full conciousness, plus I don't understand what I'm on about most of the time so gawd knows how I expect others to have a Scooby Doo... :lol:

[dave2010]

That makes a lot of sense. If an amp is a hefty one, then it will draw significant and likely varying current depending on how loud etc. The amp should be designed for this. Running through a conditioner would imply that the conditioner would have to have even greater current handling capability. That might not be impossible, but could come at a price for a viable unit.

The benefits for kit which does not take so much power could (might) be more tangible, both because of the power considerations, and also because signals could be a lot smaller, so any unwanted noise would have much greater effect when eventually fed through an amplifier.

The review I posted a link to was reasonable, but it seemed that there was no real problem with the guy's mains supply in the first place, hence he achieved no audible improvement and was also able to observe and measure the quality of his mains supply and establish that it was OK. This may be the situation for many of us, in which case inserting mains conditioners will have no or little effect. Paying out dosh for no improvement does not seem sensible.

OTOH, if there are problems with the mains, then it is possible that such units could lead to improvements which are audible.

One difficulty might be knowing whether one's mains is dirty or not in the first place. If it's bad it may be obvious, but if it's merely not quite perfect, without measuring equipment it may be hard to tell. I know of people whose opinions I respect who have said that conditioners work for them, but many people's circumstances are substantially different.

[synsei]

I apologise if I was a little short with you in my first reply Dave.

What you say above makes absolute sense. Installing a mains conditioner worked very well in my case, at least with the majority of my equipment. The T-Amp draws very little current in comparison with the Hafler so I will do an A/B comparison this weekend out of curiosity. There are members on here who have taken power conditioning to the extreme, and some employ power regenerators too, they say they work amazingly well. I, on the other hand, live in the real world and only have so many pennies to spare ;)

[dave2010]

No problem with previous posts. I wonder if we should all be checking our mains with scopes first, before spending money on extra kit. Trouble is that even cheap scopes now cost more than some cheap amps, or some of the conditioning systems. Maybe keen members could check each others' out if they really want to know, and to find out cheaply.

I used to have access to a lot of scopes, so should have been easy then, but now no good for me.

I have wanted to check my own mains for some time, as we now have an inverter in the system which puts power in from a PV array. According to the specs, it could even generate a cleaner power waveform than the juice from the supply company. I can't however say that the effects on most of our equipment are noticeable, either for good or bad.

[bkgengwe]

If its any help to you, I stay in an industrial and mining town and I have heard from other enthusiasts that the power supply is dirty and not steady with as much as 35%-50% deviations, so there's a lot of spikes and surges and dips in one listening session alone, so yes I'm most likely to hear audible benefits. my biggest surprise was just how much difference it made, I didn't expect so much difference which also may indicate just how much dirty the power is. previously I was never ever completey satisfied with my system as compared to other systems, at times I felt that even less costing systems were actually better than mine and whatever I did, I could not reach my sonic goal. it was a source of pure frustration. now I even feel that I overdid it with my system, I could actually be satisfied with a far less costing system!!1

[daytona600]

spikes , surges , lightning protection fit a class one arrestor in your consumer unit/fusebox very cheap protects the whole house not just the hifi
eg dehn ciprotec abb etc make them
35-50% on mains try a good regeneration unit
or a small good off grid pv solar system to power the hifi
couple of pv modules should do with a good pure sine wave inverter eg steca

[dave2010]

I tend to buy up surge protector strips when they are on offer, though now maybe I've got enough. I use them, in theory, to protect equipment such as computers, audio etc. I've no idea whether thay work.

I know that equipment can be damaged, as I lived in a street where one house opposite was hit by lightning. This caused obvious damage to the roof, and the neightbour next door to that house had a couple of modems fail. One of our TVs failed, and was replaced by the insurance company.

Whether any cheap protector system could have avoided problems with that level of lightning strike I'm not sure - rather doubt it.

Surge protectors are not the same as conditioners however, though most conditioners also have surge protection features.

There's an extended discussion on conditioners here - http://www.whathifi.com/forum/accessories/mains-conditioners-do-actually-work

There have been fairly cheap Lindy or Tacima mains conditioners on sale at Richer Sounds. Are these any good? Currently - http://www.richersounds.com/search/Mains%20conditioner

PS: This one is also I think on sale at Amazon - http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B000PS5700/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt_sr_3?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addThreeStar&showViewpoints=0

There seem to be quite a lot of sceptics, and people who think £25 is cheap for something they don't really believe works, and they still gave it three stars. I wouldn't pay more than £10 for a 6 way strip if that's all it was.

[daytona600]

was actually talking about Real surge protection not strips dave
see www.dehn.de these protect the whole house or fitted to separate components if required , type one arrestor ( surge , overvoltage , lightning protection )

[dave2010]

was actually talking about Real surge protection not strips dave
see www.dehn.de these protect the whole house or fitted to separate components if required , type one arrestor ( surge , overvoltage , lightning protection )Yes, I undersood that. How much would such a system cost? Do they go in before the consumer unit(s)? i don't think they're common in the UK - like fire sprinklers in houses - see Wales!

[daytona600]

about £100 each , same size as a double pole circuit breaker 35mm wide
just fit inside your consumer unit or separate box for a tenner
much cheaper than replacing hifi tv pcs

[dave2010]

about £100 each , same size as a double pole circuit breaker 35mm wide
just fit inside your consumer unit or separate box for a tenner
much cheaper than replacing hifi tv pcsAre they common in the UK? Do regular electricians know about them? Do they protect all the circuits or just one? My consumer unit currently has about 12 switches.

[daytona600]

One for the whole house is all thats required
local dehn in your area www.surgetek.co.za