Whatever happened to NXT Loudspeakers

[Macca]

Ten or so years ago they were supposed to be the next big thing. Electrostatic levels of clarity without the cost or the deadly voltage. After hearing QUAD ESL 57s I had a crazy idea about putting together a system using NXT satelites and twin subs but searching for NXT reveals nothing except some out of date ads for a Mission home cinema system.

Way back when I recall HFW reviewing a TDK system with a small sub and two little NXT panels and heaping great praise on it. I also recall Mission doing a big panel speaker with a conventional bass driver. Well they never show up used so either they never sold any or they are so good everyone keeps them forever.

Seems strange to me that this promising 'speaker technology sems to have died a death. Anyone got any insights into this?

[synsei]

Didn't Wharfedale produce an NXT speaker and sub system too?

I've heard NXT speakers and they impressed me mightily. The panels were disguised as framed paintings and with the sub hidden away in a corner and the system hidden away in a rather nice oak cabinet with doors, you'd have been hard pressed to tell whether there was a system in the room at all. It was certainly a WAF friendly setup. Even though the kit wasn't top flight (Mostly mid-range Sony gear IIRC) it did sound impressive.

[Mr Kipling]

For the last few weeks I've been wondering if Teac's minis could be cut down for headphone use similar to Jecklin Floats.

[Macca]

For the last few weeks I've been wondering if Teac's minis could be cut down for headphone use similar to Jecklin Floats.

well that is going off on a tangent but intersting nonetheless. They would look ridiculous - but then so do the Jecklins

[Mr Kipling]

Well, it is still being used in some pc speaker and surround sound products. But, like yourself, I too thought more would have come of it.

It was Mission's Stan Curtis who spotted it's potetial when being used in a military application and brought it to the marketplace.

[StanleyB]

Seems strange to me that this promising 'speaker technology sems to have died a death. Anyone got any insights into this?
I have a pair of original prototypes in the loft somewhere. They came from a company called Artchief (http://www.artchief-hk.com/products.htm) in Hong Kong, with whom I had done various R&D projects on wireless headphones and video senders that could meet UK approvals. Artchief were in discussion with Mission about further R&D and sales, but I have no idea what happened with those discussions. What I do know is that the guy from Artchief in charge of the project left the company after talks with Mission failed.
A small wireless version of the speakers were developed for this (http://www.artchief-hk.com/AV82.htm) product line. The looks have changed over time, and the NXT speakers seem to have been removed. The external looks of the original wireless NXT range was designed by a work colleague of mine who later left to set up his own design house in Peterborough.

I'll see if I can dig up the prototypes from Artchief. I haven't set eyes on them for some seven years. I did have a wireless version of them as well, but I lent it to someone and forgot over time who it was.

[hal55]

Still have my Jecklin Model 2s (non electrostatic version). Curtailed at the extremes but a midrange that's glorious, and NOTHING says your a hopeless hifi nutter more than wearing a pair of Jecklins. Still, in their day, they were several country miles ahead in the quality and comfort stakes.

Hal55

[walpurgis]

I have a TDK S60 NXT system rigged up to my computer. It sounds great with DVDs and far better than you'd anticipate on music.

The model reviewed in HFW was I believe the slightly larger S80. Both systems comprise small NXT satellite panels and a tubular moving coil driven sub-woofer.

On one occasion I had the S60 sats on top of my largish Tannoy main speakers with the little sub in between and totally fooled several listeners who thought they were hearing the main speakers. They just could not believe these little things were what they'd heard.

[Stratmangler]

NXT are probably still making a bundle fitting out fighter aircraft with anti-noise panels (cockpit noise is played back as near to real time as is possible at 180 degrees out of phase to the original sound, and at the same volume - the result is that cockpit noise is very low compared to no panel).

The audio market would be small potatoes to them.

[YNWaN]

The problem with NXT is that it doesn't better current technology. At the end of the day you can't get bass out of a vibrating rigid panel unless the panel is huge. If you only use it as a tweeter - well, existing tweeters have lower distortion.

[walpurgis]

A lot of sub-sonic energy in aircraft noise. How big would an NXT panel have to be to cancel that out?

Or, thinking along those lines, could you have an NXT array sub-woofer? I suspect that would have to be enormous as NXT units have pretty limited amplitude.

[Stratmangler]

A lot of sub-sonic energy in aircraft noise. How big would an NXT panel have to be to cancel that out?

Or, thinking along those lines, could you have an NXT array sub-woofer? I suspect that would have to be enormous as NXT units have pretty limited amplitude.

There's a REL behind the sofa :eyebrows:

The sub-sonics are unlikely to be much of a problem, as the aircraft will be travelling far faster than the frequencies generated can travel in air.

[walpurgis]

The air outside maybe, but not inside.

[Stratmangler]

The air outside maybe, but not inside.

You're looking for problems that don't exist.
The buffeting noise of air against the canopy is much more of an issue.

[Reid Malenfant]

How the hell anyone expected or got decent sound from a voicecoil driven cardboard panel with no edge suspension is quite beyond my reckoning :scratch:

The whole thing would be flexing all over the place, not acting like a piston that we kind of hope a more standard speaker driver would.

I can't say I'm surprised that they have vanished from the radar screen in all honesty...

If you think about the way a Magneplanar or Electrostatic works, then I think you should see they are both driven over just about the whole diaphram, so it moves as near as damn it as one!

Not some bloody cornflakes box with a voicecoil somewhere on one of the panels, what a piss take :rfl:

[walpurgis]

The whole thing kicked off in the late sixties/early seventies with Poly Planar speakers and of course the original polystyrene diaphragm Yamaha NS series, which at least had a metal chassis, but no edge suspension.

Here's a page out of my 1971 G.W.Smith catalogue:

http://i48.tinypic.com/mra7mb.jpg

[walpurgis]

You're looking for problems that don't exist.
The buffeting noise of air against the canopy is much more of an issue.

Which would of course be creating noise inside.

[Stratmangler]

Which would of course be creating noise inside.

which is picked up by a microphone and played 180 degrees out of phase, and at the same amplitude....

[Reid Malenfant]

which is picked up by a microphone and played 180 degrees out of phase, and at the same amplitude....
& as long as the sounds is rhythmic or continuous at the same kind of frequencies, it'll cancel out :)

Indeed :D

Just don't mention Dr Dre headphones (beat something or other :scratch:).

[walpurgis]

which is picked up by a microphone and played 180 degrees out of phase, and at the same amplitude....

I was refering earlier to the VLF content. I don't see NXT units dealing with it.

[sq225917]

NXT are probably still making a bundle fitting out fighter aircraft with anti-noise panels (cockpit noise is played back as near to real time as is possible at 180 degrees out of phase to the original sound, and at the same volume - the result is that cockpit noise is very low compared to no panel).

The audio market would be small potatoes to them.

The actual NXT technology originally came from SAAB, who were fitting it to their jet fighters. The difference between this and other techs at the time was the use of 3D panel structures and how they controlled the distributed mode resonance. NXT was set up as an IP shell to work the licence rights for the technology in the audio and consumer electronics fields. It was originally set-up as a joint venture, but SAAB sold out on the 2nd round of investment when the company became incorporated as NXT and was spun out of Verity group, which sold off parts of Cyrus and Mission to fund the new venture.

One of the directors where I worked in Cambridge was also on the board back in the early days, he used to bang on about it all the time. They were doomed to fail once they had too much investment to ever make everyone a decent return.

[Audioman]

As I remember Henry Azima sold Mission and renamed his company Nxt which I believe still included Cyrus. The main business was licencing the technology. Cyrus did release a large speaker using Nxt panels but it disappeared pretty soon. Also there was the Wharfedale picture panels and a Mission computer speaker system. Don't know what the current situation is.

http://www.whathifi.com/blog/hong-kong-what-nxt-did-next

Above link to 2008 article - operations have moved mainly to Hong Kong. It appears the technology is used in wide range of products at the time of writing.

[dantheman91]

Just bought a little Teac system with NTX panal speakers. Had a listen a but overblown with the sub but had a listen to the panals i think they will be OK with a different sub & amplifier

It was only £10 worth a go.....:lol:

Thread Resurrection.... :eek:

[Barry]

As I remember Henry Azima sold Mission and renamed his company Nxt which I believe still included Cyrus. The main business was licencing the technology. Cyrus did release a large speaker using Nxt panels but it disappeared pretty soon. Also there was the Wharfedale picture panels and a Mission computer speaker system. Don't know what the current situation is.

http://www.whathifi.com/blog/hong-kong-what-nxt-did-next

Above link to 2008 article - operations have moved mainly to Hong Kong. It appears the technology is used in wide range of products at the time of writing.

Yeah, Azima 'sold out' alright - that's why Quad are now no longer a UK company.

[dantheman91]

Received the plugs for the Teac NXT panel speakers i bought not long ago a bit of tweaking with the loudness i have found their sweet spot bass wise treble is fine and they really are very nice for the price i payed. Wont suit all kinds of music but i think their ideal for Acoustic , Jazz ETC

Just using the Teleton at present for testing....the ALBA 1500 is next & their after the Quantum 1A100.....:eyebrows:

[walpurgis]

I have a TDK S60 multimedia NXT set.

http://i64.tinypic.com/5cg661.jpg

They sound remarkably good.

[Spectral Morn]

I was tempted to say who cares. Being honest I never heard any of them that convinced me at the time that it was a good idea, but I haven't heard any later implementations so the papery lacking substance sound may be a thing of the past.

[dantheman91]

I was tempted to say who cares. Being honest I never heard any of them that convinced me at the time that it was a good idea, but I haven't heard any later implementations so the papery lacking substance sound may be a thing of the past.

Clearly a good idea Neil...I like them as I like most teac Hi Fi.....

[struth]

Dont think ive even heard of them. Hope your enjoying them dan. You do like a change:D

[Sherwood]

In fact, the technology behind NXT is still alive and being developed by Tectonic Elements amongst others. I disagree strongly with the criticisms made about NXT technology. Yes there were a lot of cheap low end products produced, many of them as computer desktop speakers. However, anyone who has heard a good NXT setup will have been impressed like me with the clarity and naturalness of the sound. Yes, low bass was missing, but what was there was good. I had a portable speaker system using NXT exciters that always accompanied me on my international travels and was highly impressive. The sound reminded me of open baffle designs with an extremely open and relaxed sound. I would encourage anyone looking for a low budget hifi project to try a pair of the Tectonic Elements Soundpax exciters and to experiment with different types of rigid panels. I speak as someone who is familiar with the sound of good speakers, being the owner of Rogers LS35a and Magneplanars.

I see a great future for the technology.

Geoff

[bumpy]

I have a pair of Podium speakers up for sale at present. They are large panel speakers very much with NXT type technology but differentiated by separate Patents. They sound beautiful and being light are truly easy to move around unlike almost all other big speakers.

Anyone is welcome to come and hear them if they wish to hear this technology applied to true Hi-Fi.

[Lawrence001]

Another resurrection of this thread! This time to say that my Arcaydis Icarus speakers sound lovely. 2 NXT panels per side, one treble and one mid, with a 10" woofer. If anyone wants to hear them your welcome.

Sent from my NEM-L51 using Tapatalk

[Marcus401]

I have a TDK S60 multimedia NXT set.

http://i64.tinypic.com/5cg661.jpg

They sound remarkably good.

Agreed, I have been enjoying my TDK S80 as my office computer speakers for over 10 years.

[walpurgis]

The grand kids now have the S60 on their PC.

I'm now using the XA-60 system, which sounds even better.

http://i66.tinypic.com/acppb9.jpg

[paulf-2007]

There is a long thread on audio circle about nxt.

I have been very tempted on several occasions too buy a pair of Fal C60 flat drivers from Japan but have resisted as they are very expensive and I only have opinions from people I don't know. Every now and then they come up on eBay and it piques my interest.

[walpurgis]

There's a TDK S60 on ebay at £30 'buy it now' if anybody is interested. Great little system. Not true Hi-Fi, but very effective on a PC. It sounds way bigger than you'd expect.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222482080776?ul_noapp=true

[Lawrence001]

How about my new ones??https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170427/7df0b9ed25c3b67502f1b6343477d709.jpg

Sent from my NEM-L51 using Tapatalk

[Lawrence001]

The bass speakers are 10" btw

Sent from my NEM-L51 using Tapatalk

[Macca]

They look pretty serious. Bass is in a box?

[Lawrence001]

Yes its like a built in passive sub, I thought they would need lots of watts but my opera consonance 40wpc EL34 amp seems to drive them well enough.

Sent from my NEM-L51 using Tapatalk

[Neil McCauley]

Ten or so years ago they were supposed to be the next big thing. Electrostatic levels of clarity without the cost or the deadly voltage. After hearing QUAD ESL 57s I had a crazy idea about putting together a system using NXT satelites and twin subs but searching for NXT reveals nothing except some out of date ads for a Mission home cinema system.

Way back when I recall HFW reviewing a TDK system with a small sub and two little NXT panels and heaping great praise on it. I also recall Mission doing a big panel speaker with a conventional bass driver. Well they never show up used so either they never sold any or they are so good everyone keeps them forever.

Seems strange to me that this promising 'speaker technology sems to have died a death. Anyone got any insights into this?

The technology did in fact appear, albeit briefly, in the audio world in the form of 12 pairs of speakers, each being roughly 6' tall x 2' wide. They used NXT 'exciters' Relevant links include:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=podium+loudspeakers&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwin0r7P4cbTAhWJI8AKHTyzCCMQsAQIfA&biw=1090&bih=628

http://www.hifianswers.com/2017/03/ask-an-expert-podium-loudspeakers-lacking-bass-weight/

http://www.hifianswers.com/2016/07/ask-an-expert-podium-loudspeakers-why-did-stereonow-resign-the-agency/

It is thought that of the 12 original big pairs (Model #1) 11 remain with their original owners and presumably without evidence to the contrary, still making them happy. Re the smaller units (Model #0.5) we can find no reliable information.

Some reports suggest that the original designer was Mr. Paul Burton, formerly of Sumo Aria speakers, Sequence Speakers and subsequently of an ill-fated project you can read about at https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=podium+loudspeakers&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwin0r7P4cbTAhWJI8AKHTyzCCMQsAQIfA&biw=1090&bih=628

Mr. Shelly (possibly incorrect spelling of first name?) Katz (the man in the images) did, it seems, claim to be the designer and that Burton disputed this claiming that Katz's involvement was 'a damn nuisance' or something like that. Also we heard that 'he made the things look nice but in so doing emasculated the sound' but we cannot substantiate this.

The two men stopped working together. Possibly that's why we see nothing these days re the Podium Loudspeaker project.

For our interest, we have made thorough (or so we like to believe) searches for the enigmatic Mr. Burton - all without success. A pity because he was, as we perceived it, something akin to a design genius, a gentle decent bloke and an interesting subject for an interview.

From what we can glean (possibly a little uncharitably, it seems) Katz 'tinkles the ivories - a bit and waves a thin stick about'. He might be found via http://www.queensu.ca/bisc/castle-life/musicians-residence

Also FYI https://alumni.surrey.ac.uk/page.aspx?pid=1504

Reports that he played keyboards for The Stray Katz turned out to be confusion re The Stray Cats. However we did hear that he was, for a while involved the band Sky along with drummer Tristan Fry.

Finally .... we discover that yes, possibly NXT technology has been / is being resurrected @ https://www.symphonova.com/ Looks to me like a clever idea.

That's it; nothing more to report.

Neil

[Macca]

Thanks Neil, not heard of Podium before. Not surprising I suppose if only 12 pairs were sold.

[Neil McCauley]

Thanks Neil, not heard of Podium before. Not surprising I suppose if only 12 pairs were sold.

I do not know the ins and outs of the situation. But from what I can gather, in summary it’s yet another classic example of a British audiophile start-up that inevitably (well almost) snatches failure from the jaws of victory.

Conflating the opinions received recently it appears to be a combination of good innovation, reasonable design expertise, managerial incompetence, rash optimism, an ego-driven musician who fancied himself as a designer (Musical Fidelity pulled than one off, but no others spring to mind) endless tinkering with a prototype that was great to start with (said one person to us this morning) and the typical and naive belief that marketing, advertising and promotion are just too ‘down-market’ for the likes of us audiophiles.

If true then Podium Loudspeakers weren’t the first and they sure won’t be the last to fall into all those traps, and many more that confront the unwary, the inexperienced and the arrogant.

Finally, and this is unsubstantiated but apparently plausible - we are told that the first hand-built Paul Burton prototype, covered in black and built on an aluminum frame (production ones being built of a hardwood) was snapped up by a serious audiophile oligarch for “big bucks” and he won’t be parted from them at any cost. Nice – if true.

Neil

[RothwellAudio]

Neil Mc, Neil Mc
So good they post him twice
??????


BTW, I'm so thick I got 80% of the way through the second one before I realised :doh:
:lol:

[Neil McCauley]

Damn! Sorry about that.

Must be age-related at my end.

Neil

[Macca]

I've removed the duplicate post.

I have an issue of Hi-fi World with a review of Mission's effort, which IIRC is largely positive. My thinking has always been that there must have been some underlying issue with it or it would have caught on in at least a small way. I suppose the need to marry a conventional bass driver with the NXT panel to get wide band performance could be the problem.

[Lawrence001]

Were the podium speakers NXT panels or a copy? Not sure how many of my Arcaydis speakers were made, probably around the same number as the Podiums, the seller mentioned 18 made at £3800 a pair but that came from the people who bought the name, not the maker himself.

Sent from my NEM-L51 using Tapatalk

[Neil McCauley]

Were the podium speakers NXT panels or a copy? Not sure how many of my Arcaydis speakers were made, probably around the same number as the Podiums, the seller mentioned 18 made at £3800 a pair but that came from the people who bought the name, not the maker himself.

Sent from my NEM-L51 using Tapatalk

Neither.

Podium used a proprietary ultra low-mass honeycomb-core panel, a bit like a resin version of Aerolam (as used in the original Pink Triangle chassis) so i am told with up to nine NXT drivers ('Exciters'. apparently) in a vertical line down the centrer line. There was no crossover. Never heard of Arcaydis; sorry and so cannot comment. Oddly though, it seems that the Podium Model #1 retailed around £3.8k.

[PaulStewart]

I heard the Podiums briefly at one of the Heathrow shows and was impressed. I got a bit more involved when, I did a lot of the publicity photography for them, at that point Viv and I had The Old Ammunition Factory( a photo studio we built in the cordite store of an old hand grenade factory in Hounslow. It wasn't posh, but it was cheap and man, was it secure). Howard Popeck and Shelly Katz brought them over for the shoot and as I had a TEAC 300 system in the studio, we disconnected the little Tannoy D100s I used there at the time and hooked up the Podiums. They were quite amazing, despite being flat panel open baffles, in the fairly large, (550 sq. foot, with an 18 foot high ceiling) room, they had plenty of bass depth. They must have been extremely phase coherent as the imaging was, to put it mildly, amazing. If you stood between the speakers and even a foot or so behind them, you could still perceive a stereo image IN FRONT OF YOU!!! The overall balance of the things was pretty good too.

I think Shelly's ideas on marketing were, in my opinion a bit of the wall and doomed to fail. He was talking about send prospective customers brochures that IIRC, would have cost almost £10.00 pounds each, a ridiculous amount, thousand could have been given away at shows etc., without a single sale. Sad as they were a great product.

[Neil McCauley]

I heard the Podiums briefly at one of the Heathrow shows and was impressed. I got a bit more involved when, I did a lot of the publicity photography for them, at that point Viv and I had The Old Ammunition Factory( a photo studio we built in the cordite store of an old hand grenade factory in Hounslow. It wasn't posh, but it was cheap and man, was it secure). Howard Popeck and Shelly Katz brought them over for the shoot and as I had a TEAC 300 system in the studio, we disconnected the little Tannoy D100s I used there at the time and hooked up the Podiums. They were quite amazing, despite being flat panel open baffles, in the fairly large, (550 sq. foot, with an 18 foot high ceiling) room, they had plenty of bass depth. They must have been extremely phase coherent as the imaging was, to put it mildly, amazing. If you stood between the speakers and even a foot or so behind them, you could still perceive a stereo image IN FRONT OF YOU!!! The overall balance of the things was pretty good too.

I think Shelly's ideas on marketing were, in my opinion a bit of the wall and doomed to fail. He was talking about send prospective customers brochures that IIRC, would have cost almost £10.00 pounds each, a ridiculous amount, thousand could have been given away at shows etc., without a single sale. Sad as they were a great product.

Hello Paul. I directed Howard to this post. He says 'Hi Paul' and agrees with everything you say re Podium and Mr Katz - and 'thanks' He tells me that his perception, with the benefit of hindsight was that when it started, the speakers totally trumped Katz's ego and as things progressed, the balance switched about face with ego predominating. He has very fond memories of the sound though, especially the black prototype pair.

He still remembers that image on your wall of the close-up of the hand and strings of the double bass player!

[Alexey]

Good news for those who want to hear how NXT speakers can sound. High-end NXT acoustic systems are designed in Russia
https://youtu.be/N-tAlX6BD6o
https://youtu.be/-FhICoa2Gkk
https://youtu.be/VPew6zviYhY