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Mike
05-02-2009, 18:13
I don't know what to do now.....

I'm not having much turntable related luck lately. First thing to go wrong was me buying (or at least paying for) a brand new Technics 1210 Mk2 from Empire Direct on New Years eve only to find out a couple of weeks later that they've gone down the bog. Yesterday I more or less got confirmation from the administrators that my money is gone for good! Which was nice.

In the meantime... I put my Denon DP-3000 on ebay and the other night someone hit the BIN button, 'great' I thought! Except the bugger hasn't paid up and refuses to respond to the invoices and messages I've sent him. I think he's pissing me about TBH.

So what do I do next? :confused:

I've got a budget of around 600 and a Denon TT that I can either keep or have another go at selling. Sooooo.... Do I keep the Denon and blow it all on a nice tonearm or persevere with selling it and splurge out on a different deck?

The thing is... financially speaking, this will pretty much have to be IT for the rest of this year, I've got too many other up and coming expenses which is going to limit my buying ability. The only thing I'll be able to do is spend bits n' bobs here and there on DIY tweakage...

Help!

Lost & adrift of the North East. :scratch:

YNWaN
05-02-2009, 18:36
Did you pay for your Technics by credit card - if you did, I'm reasonably certain you can get your money back from them.

Report the other bloke to ebay and relist it - I don't know what to advise with regard to keeping the Denon - it's not my kind of deck but it may be yours.

Mike
05-02-2009, 18:42
Oh yes...

I should have pointed out that I paid by debit card. I've had confirmation from the administrators that there's no money for us poor old customers. I've also opened a 'payment dispute' with my bank but it seems that I'm unlikely to get a refund from them unless they can reclaim the payment form the administrators... Which looks unlikely because the 'company' has no money.

To all intents and purposes its a write off... If I get anything back it will be a 'windfall' as far as I'm concerned at this point. Time to chalk it down to experience and move on... :confused:

Marco
05-02-2009, 18:47
Nightmare - you're not having much luck, Mikey...


I've got a budget of around 600 and a Denon TT that I can either keep or have another go at selling. Sooooo.... Do I keep the Denon and blow it all on a nice tonearm or persevere with selling it and splurge out on a different deck?


It's the latter option for me. The Empire saga has been a royal pain in the arse, and I hope you can get something resolved, but if you've got 600 to spend, not including what you get for the Denon, then I see no reason not to proceed with your original plan to buy a Techy (this time from a 100% reliable source) and spend the remainder of your budget on modifying it.

With the funds you've got available and those 'due in' you can certainly afford to buy a new 1210 and a Time Step PSU, along with some other mods, possibly a Jelco 250ST, which would work really well with your AT33PTG, or if not you could rewire the stock arm and invest in a decent mat and support feet, which would also give you excellent results :)

Marco.

P.S I you go the latter route I've got a nice headshell you can have at a good discount ;)

Mike
05-02-2009, 18:59
Funny you should say that bud....

I've been eyeing up a MK5G, but is it worth the extra 120 - 150(ish) over say, a MK2? It looks nicer but what about the arm? Is it that much better?

Then again there's always the used market (within reason)... The budget is slightly flexible which may give me more scope for the tonearm...

Decisions, desisions!... :smoking:

John
05-02-2009, 19:02
If you want good sound on the cheap its worth going down the same route as Beachy and go for the Old Lenco they are really capable and you can lots of fun altering and adapting 600 on a lenoc would get a decent arm and reasonable cart that would sound pretty good
But Marco suggestion may give you more benfits when you have more spare money

Mike
05-02-2009, 19:05
If you want good sound on the cheap its worth going down the same route as Beachy and go for the Old Lenco they are really capable and you can lots of fun altering and adapting 600 on a lenoc would get a decent arm and reasonable cart that would sound pretty good

Grrrrr! :steam:

I gave away a mint(ish) GL75 to a forum member not so long ago. I even paid for the bloody postage!

Where the hell is Alex D these days anyway?

Marco
05-02-2009, 19:12
Mikey,


I've been eyeing up a MK5G, but is it worth the extra 120 - 150(ish) over say, a MK2? It looks nicer but what about the arm? Is it that much better?


Mmm... From experience, I'd say no to your first question if SPPV is the most important consideration, however there's no getting away from the fact that the MK5G is considerably better finished, and has a real 'feel' of quality about it.

With regard to the arm, I'd say that it's noticeably better, mainly through the improved OFC wiring and higher quality interconnects and phono plugs, but how significant that is all depends on your plans to change the arm or not...


Then again there's always the used market (within reason)... The budget is slightly flexible which may give me more scope for the tonearm...


My choice would be to go for a new one so you know exactly where it's been... It's a bit like marrying a virgin instead of a hooker :eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

Mike
05-02-2009, 19:18
Hmmm... well pulling the arm apart and doing a re-wire wouldn't scare me too much. If that would do the trick I'd probably be happy to live with it for the rest of the year or so... but a better arm would certainly be on the cards in the long run.

Thing is... whats this 'titanium' thing all about then?

I've a suspicion that it's just hype TBH, possibly some bits are 'titanium coloured' but there's no actual performance advantage. But thats just a gut feeling, I'd be happy to be proved wrong!... Anyone? :confused:

Jason P
05-02-2009, 19:27
Mike,

PM me the details of your ebay buyer - he may be the same bloke that dicked me around when he bought my Ittok off me. Took a long while and the threat of further action to get him to pay, then PayPal kept the payment pending positive feedback - needless to say he wasn't forthcoming in that. Ended up circumventing PayPal's hold by refunding a penny, but a right royal PITA all the same...

Jason

Mike
05-02-2009, 19:32
Was he in Italy?

Beechwoods
05-02-2009, 19:37
Mike - bloody annoying on the eBay thing, and on top of everything else. I would seriously initiate the Unpaid Item process on eBay. You can only do this after 1 week has passed, but like I said yesterday, it's as easy to pay as it is to hit the Buy It Now button. You're definitely being messed around, particularly if you are getting nothing back from the guy.

I would leave it a couple of days, and then drop him another line saying that you are assuming that by not responding to your messages his intention is not to pay. Advise him that you intend on initiating the Unpaid Item process if payment is not received within x days (7 from the end of the auction). One final note the night before that day is up, and then do it. Otherwise you will be liable for both the final value fee and relisting costs, if you decide to relist.

We've had a lot of eBay experience, both buying and selling. If you need any other advice just let me know.

And good luck :)

Marco
05-02-2009, 19:38
Hmmm... well pulling the arm apart and doing a re-wire wouldn't scare me too much. If that would do the trick I'd probably be happy to live with it for the rest of the year or so... but a better arm would certainly be on the cards in the long run.

Thing is... whats this 'titanium' thing all about then?

I've a suspicion that it's just hype TBH, possibly some bits are 'titanium coloured' but there's no actual performance advantage. But thats just a gut feeling, I'd be happy to be proved wrong!... Anyone? :confused:

To be honest, I've never been 100% sure about that one - short of having the arm material tested and then comparing the performance of the full arm to an 'ordinary' one, we'll never know...

I do know though that the effect of the OFC wiring and high quality interconnects of the MK5 is significant, and that in terms of fit and finish it oozes class in a way that the MK2 only hints at, but if you're going to rewire the arm yourself then in terms of pure SPPV the MK2 is the better buy, and then you can spend the rest of the money further upgrading it with fluid damping, etc, or invest in a Jelco. Personally, having heard both options, I'd go for the latter :)

Marco.

Mike
05-02-2009, 19:42
Personally, having heard both options, I'd go for the latter :)

Well, you see... there's another conundrum, I'd like both!... I'd also be happy with a 5G, for the nice 'finish' and re-wire the tonearm. Errr... am I digging myself a hole here ? :lolsign:

Marco
05-02-2009, 19:59
LOL, not really. I bought the MK5G mainly for the way it looked (the 'titanium' arm thing was also a factor, but one of secondary importance) - and that was from comparing pictures on a DJ store website.

In the flesh, when you see both decks side by side, the difference is even more pronounced! So I would fully understand you going for a MK5G and then upgrading the arm at a later stage, as long as you can still afford to get a Time Step PSU - it's effect is far too significant to blow all your budget on the MK5 and then be left with a much inferior sounding T/T, despite it looking nicer, unless you could live with it until such times as you can afford the PSU and arm upgrade...

I guess there's only one way to find out! ;)

Marco.

Mike
05-02-2009, 20:01
I guess there's only one way to find out! ;)

Yeah... buy another LP12! :ner:

Or a PL-71

Marco
05-02-2009, 20:06
LOL... If you do the former, I'll shoot you myself! :ner:

I've no idea how good the Pioneer is, but I hope to find out at the Wigwam show - that is if Richard doesn't chicken out of bringing it :eyebrows:

Only kidding, Richy boy! ;)

Marco.

Mike
05-02-2009, 20:09
Seriously though... I am pretty lost ATM.

My 'tecchy plans' are feeling a bit tainted. Much thinking is on the cards... :scratch:

Marco
05-02-2009, 20:11
Phone me and we can have a chat about it :)

Marco.

Mike
05-02-2009, 20:24
No way!....

You'll only poison my mind! :lolsign:

Marco
05-02-2009, 20:26
Well I know there's no chance of 'leading you astray'... ;)

Marco.

Gerry
05-02-2009, 21:03
Mike
Sorry to hear of your troubles.
What exactly is wrong with your Denon???
These are not bad TTs, in fact if the magnetic strip under the TT is in tact they are very very good. I'm not sure what you'd be gaining by buying an SL.
I know at the moment this is probably un-PC to say on this forum as the SL is obviously flavor of the month, but in all honesty there is plenty out there to match it. Especially if you take in to consideration all the additional costs of the extras.
The plinth, depending on the model (there were a number available) could be a weak spot on the Denon, but that is easly improved. The Hadcock was not the best arm (IMHO...yes I have one), but there are other arms which would suit. As for a new PSU, fairly certain I can sort one out which would improve the Denon...might take a little while and involve some DIY.
Personally I wouldn't give up on the Denon...they were arguably in the day the better droup of DD TTs.

Best of luck with it all.
Regards
Gerry

Clive
05-02-2009, 21:15
You can also consider:

Micro Seki 5000/8000
Sansui SR929
Sony PS-X9/TTS6000/8000/2250
JVC TT-100
Pioneer PLC 590
Denon DP 80/100
Kenwood KD990 or KD770 or KD9010 or KD7010 or KP1100
Kenwood Trio K-07D

1210 if you must buy new, but your current Denon I would guess be pretty good.

Mike
05-02-2009, 21:21
:)

Now we're getting somewhere!.... Encourage me! ;)

I've a slightly long winded reply to the last two post's, but \I'm in the middle of some cooking. I'll be back! (as Arnie would say).

John
05-02-2009, 21:22
Ok heres a link to a good site on DD should give some ideas
http://www.dd-turntables.com/news_1.html

Marco
05-02-2009, 21:48
Hi Gerry,


I know at the moment this is probably un-PC to say on this forum as the SL is obviously flavor of the month, but in all honesty there is plenty out there to match it.


No doubt that's the case if you're willing to take a chance on a classic second-hand deck, such as those you've mentioned above, and not be left with a glorified ornament if something irreplaceable goes pop, but name me one currently available T/T under 3k which you consider to be sonically superior to a fully modified SL-1210, which costs around 1500? Indeed, have you actually heard an example of the latter in a familiar system?

The Techy is "flavour of the month", Gerry, for very good reasons :)

Furthermore, as you probably know, I've compared my modified 1210 to some highly regarded classic T/Ts such as SP10s, Garrard 301s and 401s, and Thorens TD124s, and none of them disgraced the 1210 - it is quite simply a very capable turntable whether up against the best of what's available today or yesteryear.

I wish Mike all the best and hope that he makes the right decision (for him) but for many people, after considering all of the above, the security of knowing that you've got a brand new T/T where all the parts are still made and everything is serviceable represents priceless piece of mind.

Marco.

P.S I also rate Mike's Denon, but he's the one who's been living with it and finding it wanting - and he's also heard my 1210. I guess it boils down to how much he's willing to 'speculate to accumulate' with the Denon without running the risk of throwing a load of cash at it and it still not hitting the spot, against a 'known reference' (and thus a safer bet) such as a modified 1210. Horses for courses...

Clive
05-02-2009, 21:56
I'd agree that the dangers of running a 30 year old DD need to be considered. Some can be almost impossible to fix when they fail. Idlers tend to be much less of an issue. Whatever....they are mostly much better than the 98% of poorly implemented belt-drives.

Marco
05-02-2009, 22:24
I completely agree, Clive. Regarding idlers and the fixing issue, again I agree, but remember that they can only be fixed if you know exactly how to do it, or someone else who does, which unfortunately is not always the case!

The fact is not everyone is into D.I.Y and will simply buy a T/T to play their records on without having a 'scooby-doo' or much interest in the mechanics of the process (count me in :)). The same also applies to the rest of their gear.

If anything were to go wrong with my 1210, for example, I'd simply contact Dave Cawley at Sound Hi-fi and have him sort it out. Having access to this type of service for any equipment I own is for me of vital importance. There isn't one piece of equipment in my system which couldn't be repaired or modified by someone I know and trust who's capable of doing the job - in many cases the actual person who designed it.

Marco.

Clive
05-02-2009, 22:47
Marco, we're not massively disagreeing, but whereas you'd go to Dave for your 1210 there are people who specialize in idlers too - even DD Kenwood's - Vantage Audio. Idlers are simpler than DDs, if you can cope with basic diy on your car or house you can do most things with an idler.

I'm not saying one is better than the other or more reliable than the other. Mostly people who don't want hassle or involvement in tinkering with a deck won't want to play records either but it takes all sorts!

Marco
05-02-2009, 23:22
Hi Clive,


Marco, we're not massively disagreeing, but whereas you'd go to Dave for your 1210 there are people who specialize in idlers too - even DD Kenwood's - Vantage Audio.


That's true. I've heard them mentioned before, but apparently there is quite a wait required when getting things fixed. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's the case then I personally couldn't be arsed. It's the same with the likes of Expert Stylus. Patience, and doing without my gear for any length of time, and therefore not being able to listen to music, is definitely not my strong point!

I like having sources for servicing that I can simply phone up, bring the item concerned in for repair and (usually) have it done on the spot... Fortunately, rarely anything I own ever goes wrong :)

Marco.

Clive
05-02-2009, 23:27
C'mon Marco, you're nitpicking. Vantage was just one example. What happens if Dave goes on holiday? Ok you'll find someone else but maybe you trust Dave the most so you'll end up waiting. Don't be so terrified of your TT failing, it's actually very rare, as you've stated!

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
05-02-2009, 23:39
Mike

I think I would keep the Denon and come up with a nice plinth design make it your self and put it in that. Buy a nice tonearm, you were looking at the Audiocrafts (made in the Jelco Factory I believe) and enjoy what should turn out to be an excellent TT.

Andy - SDDW

YNWaN
05-02-2009, 23:41
I just can't raise the level of enthusiam for all these Jelco sourced arms that seems to exist on the internet.

YNWaN
05-02-2009, 23:43
Whatever....they are mostly much better than the 98% of poorly implemented belt-drives.

Hmm.................................

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
05-02-2009, 23:46
Hi YNWaN

They do seem to have an elevated status at the moment. Though I do use an Audiocraft 3000Ltd and wouldn't change it. It is beter suited to my current deck a Feickert Twin than the previous arms mounted on it. A Helius Omega and a Graham Phantom. Both excellent tonearms but the Audiocraft just works.

Andy - SDDW

Marco
05-02-2009, 23:51
Clive,

LOL! You misunderstand me - I'm not "terrified" in the slightest - nor am I nitpicking :eyebrows:

I'm simply trying to highlight that a big part of my equipment purchasing decisons is based on easily available and prompt back-up service of the equipment concerned if necessary, which is why I rarely buy anything that is unlikely to be supported thus :)

I'll run though my system to demonstrate the point:

Technics T/T and ancillary-related servicing or upgrades - Dave Cawley of Sound Hi-fi.

Sony CDP or DAC servicing or upgrades - Mark Bartlett of Audiocom International.

Croft preamp servicing or upgrades - Glenn Croft of Croft Acoustics.

Tube Distinctions valve amp servicing or upgrades - Anthony Matthews of Tube Distinctions.

Spendor Loudspeaker servicing or upgrades - Philip Swift of Spendor Audio Systems...

You get my drift ;)

Most of these people I've met, know personally, and have a good rapport with, and would attend to any problems I had quickly and efficiently - this sort of thing is important to me. That wouldn't necessarily be the case with, say, some random purchase from Ebay or the like...

Marco.

Marco
05-02-2009, 23:54
I just can't raise the level of enthusiam for all these Jelco sourced arms that seems to exist on the internet.

Why not - have you heard one in a familiar system and compared it to what you're using on your deck and/or seen how well engineered they are for the money?

Marco.

Clive
05-02-2009, 23:54
Hmm.................................

:) well did say 98%, not 100% of belt drives. Mostly with technology it's down to implementation. There tends not to be one technology that's better than all others, what matters is how good the implementation is. A lot of the belt drive decks stem from times of value engineering. The DDs and Idlers come from times of over (or sufficient) engineering. Maybe that's the most important factor.

Clive
05-02-2009, 23:59
You get my drift ;)



I get your drift but I'm not sure you do! You've lots of single points of failure there. One service person per item. What if they retire, take a year off, break a leg skiing or worse (heaven forbid).

I'm not bothered by this, mostly I service (or build) my own kit, it really is not that daunting.

Marco
06-02-2009, 00:06
Mostly with technology it's down to implementation. There tends not to be one technology that's better than all others, what matters is how good the implementation is


I completely agree :)

Also, never think in absolutes with hi-fi. I prefer direct-drive T/Ts and valves but that's only because of what my ears are currently telling me, not some deeply-ingrained inflexible and blinkered prejudices formed years ago and not revisited since...

If someone could demonstrate to me a belt-drive T/T that I could afford and which outperformed my modified 1210 then I'd buy it - the same goes for my TD Copper amp versus something solid-state. I have 'loyalty' to no particular technology or methodology in hi-fi - I simply go with whatever equipment or ancillaries my ears tell me offers the highest sound-per-pound value, and also what components I consider are covered by the most reliable and efficient back-up service.

Marco.

Marco
06-02-2009, 00:09
I get your drift but I'm not sure you do! You've lots of single points of failure there. One service person per item. What if they retire, take a year off, break a leg skiing or worse (heaven forbid).


I'll worry about that when or if the time comes, if I'm not using other equipment by then supplied by someone who's still in business. In the foreseeable future, though, what you've highlighted is unlikely to be an issue ;)

Marco.

John
06-02-2009, 06:42
This is an interesting arcticle but also a bit of promtion for Teres looking at different drive options; they are clearly saying if DD is done right then its the best option I cannot comment to much as I never heard a really good DD but they are only a very few belt drives I would consider owing and all are out of my price range. For me Idlier drive has improvements over belt drive on the same T/T in terms of pace soundstage timing detail and dynamics and this seems to be the common experience of people who have moved to Idlier based systems
http://www.teresaudio.com/manuals/teres_speed_tech.pdf

Mike
06-02-2009, 17:31
Mike
Sorry to hear of your troubles.
What exactly is wrong with your Denon???
These are not bad TTs, in fact if the magnetic strip under the TT is in tact they are very very good. I'm not sure what you'd be gaining by buying an SL.
I know at the moment this is probably un-PC to say on this forum as the SL is obviously flavor of the month, but in all honesty there is plenty out there to match it. Especially if you take in to consideration all the additional costs of the extras.
The plinth, depending on the model (there were a number available) could be a weak spot on the Denon, but that is easly improved. The Hadcock was not the best arm (IMHO...yes I have one), but there are other arms which would suit. As for a new PSU, fairly certain I can sort one out which would improve the Denon...might take a little while and involve some DIY.
Personally I wouldn't give up on the Denon...they were arguably in the day the better droup of DD TTs.

Best of luck with it all.
Regards
Gerry

Now this is what I like... 'A voice of reason' as it were! :)

As a motor unit there's nothing wrong at all with the Denon, even cosmetically I'd say it was 'mint'! I too feel the plinth (DK-100F) is the weak link.

I'd be most interested in your views on an improved PSU... I hadn't really considered the possibility TBH. :scratch:

The Hadcock was a very early model and rather lightweight, not to mention a bit flimsy, and didn't work well with the AT33-PTG cartridge. So it's gone!

The more I think about it the more inclined I am to wait the 7 days and file a 'NPB' against this time waster. I don't think I want him to have it anymore!

Cheers...

Mike
06-02-2009, 17:45
Mike

I think I would keep the Denon and come up with a nice plinth design make it your self and put it in that. Buy a nice tonearm, you were looking at the Audiocrafts (made in the Jelco Factory I believe) and enjoy what should turn out to be an excellent TT.

Andy - SDDW



And I still am! :) They're a bit thin on the ground though, I missed out on that AC3300 which was a bit of a bummer. I've found a few others but mostly in the far east and considerably more expensive, not completely unreasonable though...

I love unipivots but need to consider other options too, watching Mrs H use one is a slightly worrying experience. She can always be 'trained' I suppose! :eyebrows:

Mike
06-02-2009, 18:04
Talking of Audiocraft, HERE'S (http://www.topclassaudio.com/web/eng/used_product_details.jsp?gid=3937) one that is out of the question. Gulp! :uhho:

It's HKD48,000

Mike
06-02-2009, 18:53
Quite fancy this one though. :)

http://www.topclassaudio.com/web/eng/used_product_details.jsp?gid=3588

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
06-02-2009, 19:36
Quite fancy this one though. :)


http://www.topclassaudio.com/web/eng/used_product_details.jsp?gid=3588 (http://www.topclassaudio.com/web/eng/used_product_details.jsp?gid=3588)

Hi Mike

Tonearm looks good, not too bad a price. I think about ( sort of ) what I'd expect it to be. Quite similar to mine, I have the option of the S arm tube, though haven't tried ir yet.

Any thoughts on the plinth, how about a Multi-Layered Ply / MDF and Solid Beech Block Board construction, with a large part of the main body hollowed out to be mass loaded with Lead Shot or something similar. You could also isolate the arm board quite effectively within the same construction, large board to take the tonearm and the remaining surround laminated and mass loaded again. The whole thing would need to be physically large but sure it would end up a great TT combination. You could also use Dynamat to add a 'Constrained Layer' effect between different sections of the construction.

Have fun trying to decide :).

Andy - SDDW

Mike
06-02-2009, 19:45
Hi Andy,

I'm still thinking about a big slab of slate. I'd love one of Darren's Slatedeck plinths but with all the other stuff I'm going to be forking out on (and the potential redundancy still hanging about) this year, it'll have to be a DIY job.

I'm just going to give Gerry a call, seems he's had a chat with someone who knows about this sort of stuff. :)

Mike
06-02-2009, 22:04
Just had an interesting and informative chat on the phone with Gerry, and a 'plan' is beginning to form... Watch this space. :)

Suffice to say, the Denon will remain a resident of chez H.

Time to find a nice tonearm!

scoobs
07-02-2009, 08:44
Hi Mike
I have a large 2" deep slab of slate in the garden that I bought for 30 from my local reclamation yard in the week, this will soon be cut in half and doubled up to make a kick-ass plinth for my Denon, I'm also thinking about one of these Jelco's (http://www.puremusicgroup.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=53) to use on it, as my current arm (whilst outstanding) is champagne and I fancy something in black to match & complete the beautiful & brutal look of the slate plinth.

Primalsea
07-02-2009, 17:04
Hi Mike,

I can show you how to cast a plinth from Epoxy resin, can also put you onto a guy who can supply the resin in whatever colour you want.:confused:

Marco
07-02-2009, 21:15
I'm also thinking about one of these Jelco's (http://www.puremusicgroup.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=53) to use on it, as my current arm (whilst outstanding) is champagne and I fancy something in black to match & complete the beautiful & brutal look of the slate plinth.

Hi Nick, how's it going? :)

Regarding the Jelco above, you should ask Dave Cawley if he can obtain one for you for less than shown on that US website. He's got a direct link with Jelco in Japan. Even if his price ends up being the same I'd still rather give him the business than some unknown company in the States, and you'll save on import duty and tax...

It looks like a very nice arm - a bit like an SA-750D, only longer :cool:

Marco.

Mike
08-02-2009, 17:38
Yes, I rather like the look of that.

OTOH... I wonder how an SME IV would get on with the Denon. :scratch:

scoobs
08-02-2009, 18:14
Thanks Marco, I may approach Dave, although this Jelco is another of their OEM designs, so only likely to be available via puremusicgroup.

Mike, be wary of 9" arms because as you know the Denon has a 'skirt' and this may encroach into the area that an SME or other large footprint tonearm base may wish to occupy...(if you know what I mean)... :cool: (hic) :cool: :)

Mike
08-02-2009, 18:20
Mike, be wary of 9" arms because as you know the Denon has a 'skirt' and this may encroach into the area that an SME or other large footprint tonearm base may wish to occupy...(if you know what I mean)

Indeed I do... I had a minor problem with the Hadcock bias weight fouling the 'skirt' (hmmm... that sounds a bit dodgy) with the arm in the rest.

It should be OK with a IV I think, as the armboard is cut for an SME. It originally had a 3009 fitted. ;)

Marco
08-02-2009, 21:21
I can see we're going to need to have a shoot-out soon between the 'Denon Dafty's' and the 'Techy Terrors'... :eyebrows:

:trust: :flasher:

Marco.

Mike
08-02-2009, 21:33
I can see we're going to need to have a shoot-out soon between the 'Denon Dafty's' and the 'Techy Terrors'... :eyebrows:

:trust: :flasher:


Marco.

Oh, you mean those blokes with a disco deck not even made by Technics/Panasonic! :lol:

Marco
08-02-2009, 21:54
You wot luv? :eyebrows:

Marco.

Mike
08-02-2009, 21:59
You wot luv? :eyebrows:

Marco.

You urd me... are yer startin' ??? :carrot:

Mike
08-02-2009, 22:01
Hi Mike,

I can show you how to cast a plinth from Epoxy resin, can also put you onto a guy who can supply the resin in whatever colour you want.:confused:

I'll see you in pork pie country... We'll have a chat. ;)

Marco
08-02-2009, 22:35
Oi, panty boy, I was referring to this:


those blokes with a disco deck not even made by Technics/Panasonic!


Which decks would these be then, Gladys? :pub:

Marco.

Mike
08-02-2009, 22:37
Ah well!....

That would be telling, wouldn't it! :ner:

Marco
08-02-2009, 22:44
LOL. Come back to me when you're not talkin' a load of pish :eyebrows:

What are you doing with this abortion of a deck of yours anyway - is it likely to be playing music sometime this century? :lol:

:ner:

Marco.

Mike
08-02-2009, 22:56
Well, you see...

Technics is a term for the useful arts in general, distinct from that of the performing and fine arts. The name is often mispronounced as "tek-nicks". However, according to the manufacturer, the correct pronunciation is like the word techniques.

It's really just a badge. The manufacturer is Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.

Easy, see! ;)

Marco
08-02-2009, 23:01
LOL. That's not exactly news, dude! We just call it "Techy" because it's slightly less of a 'mouthful' than the 'Matsushita Electric Industrial Co Ltd deck'. :cool:

No jokes about shortening it to 'Shita', now... ;)

Marco.

Mike
08-02-2009, 23:05
Too late.... but I dropped the 'a' from the end! :ner:



Almost everyone pronounces it "Teck-niks" though, which is apparently wrong!

Check it out here:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Technics-(brand)

Mike
08-02-2009, 23:07
Hmmm.. link no worky. :scratch:

Spectral Morn
08-02-2009, 23:07
Well, you see...

Technics is a term for the useful arts in general, distinct from that of the performing and fine arts. The name is often mispronounced as "tek-nicks". However, according to the manufacturer, the correct pronunciation is like the word techniques.

It's really just a badge. The manufacturer is Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.

Easy, see! ;)



So what you guys are really saying is its a PANASONIC :lolsign:;)


Regards D S D L---Neil ;)

Mike
08-02-2009, 23:08
So what you guys are really saying is its a PANASONIC :lolsign:;)


Regards D S D L---Neil ;)

Even that's just another badge. :)

Mike
08-02-2009, 23:10
Can't get this bloody link to work. :scratch:

Try HERE (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Technics-(brand))

Beechwoods
08-02-2009, 23:13
Does now :)

Mike
08-02-2009, 23:17
Aye... 'bout time. ;)

Mike
08-02-2009, 23:19
What are you doing with this abortion of a deck of yours anyway - is it likely to be playing music sometime this century?

Not unless I can find a bloody tonearm for sensible money it wont!

Sodding weak '' Grrrrrr :steam:

Mike
08-02-2009, 23:24
Hmmm... how about a Lustre GST-801... <rubs chin>

:confused:

Gerry
09-02-2009, 08:53
Hmmm... how about a Lustre GST-801... <rubs chin>

:confused:

That is a nice arm. Van Den Hull uses one for testing his cartridges on!

Other thoughts over the W/E have been a VPI JMW Memorial tonearm...I think I know where there is a second hand one...great unipivot.

Regards
Gerard

Mike
09-02-2009, 09:20
That is a nice arm. Van Den Hull uses one for testing his cartridges on!

Other thoughts over the W/E have been a VPI JMW Memorial tonearm...I think I know where there is a second hand one...great unipivot.

Regards
Gerard

Sounds good... Do let me know please. :)

Marco
09-02-2009, 10:48
The Lustre's a nice arm, Mike (which Gerry rightly says A.J. van den Hul uses to test his cartridges). I used one to good effect in the 80s on an Ariston RD11S.

It's definitely a capable arm, even today, but I suspect that it wouldn't be better than any of the currently available S-shaped Jelcos, and of course with second-hand classic arms like that you need to consider the condition of the bearings.

I have no experience of the VPI but know that it's highly regarded. Good unipivots undoubtedly have certain magic about them, providing the partnering cartridge is a good match.

I think the important thing to remember with your current T/T shenanigans is synergy. It all very well cherry-picking what you consider are the best 'bits' individually (motor mechanism/PSU/plinth/tonearm/cartridge) but it's how well they gel as a whole which will ultimately determine how musically satisfying the results are. A turntable will always be the sum of its constituent parts, just like any system is.

That's why buying a 1210 and modifying it with components that have already been proven to work is a much safer option, particularly when you know just how good the finished article sounds. However, undoubtedly, the rewards of optimising the Denon in the way you're currently considering are potentially greater, particularly if using a 10.5" or 12" arm (I would definitely be looking to do that) - *IF* you get it right and everything works together successfully.

There's only one way to find out of course! I admire your perseverance and desire to do something a bit different so I hope it pays off for you :)

It'll certainly be interesting observing events unfold...

Marco.

Mike
09-02-2009, 14:06
That Lustre is mint & boxed with all the bits n' pieces, belongs to a collector who hasn't used it for yonks!

Still not a unipivot though which is really what I'm on the hunt for. ;)

As for the synergy (hated buzzword alert! :steam:) thing, there's almost no way to know without trying it. So onward I go....

Marco
09-02-2009, 14:20
It's not a "buzzword" at all; it's a relevant word which is very applicable to hi-fi. Think of it in the same way as 'gelling'.

Do you have an aversion to 'gel' - it would appear not, as you use it on yer big nut! :lolsign:

Marco.

Mike
09-02-2009, 17:02
Oh shut up ya big clown! :upyours:

Looks like the 'Arms Race' is nearing a conclusion. I'll know by the end of tomorrow! :)

Ali Tait
09-02-2009, 19:36
SME by any chance? :)

Mike
09-02-2009, 19:56
I'm watching a IV on ebay but I think it will do the usual in the last minute.

Sooooo.... probably the 'other' option! :)

Spectral Morn
09-02-2009, 23:15
HI MIKE


Get a Sniper programme...it can help ....or so I am told by those in the know ;)

Like this ......? ;)


http://www.thejump.net/humor/sniper.jpg


Regards D S D L----Neil :)

Mike
10-02-2009, 18:26
Well, the SME has buggered off out of range of my budget, as expected. ;)

So the matter is solved! :)

Marco
10-02-2009, 19:16
What's the army-poo gonna be, then, shweety? :)

Marco.

Mike
10-02-2009, 23:37
Keeping that to myself for the moment, with the luck I've had lately I don't want to jinx it! ;)

*Clue* - It's been mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread. :)

Beechwoods
11-02-2009, 06:41
Is there a prize if we guess right :eyebrows:

Ali Tait
11-02-2009, 09:38
If I'm right it's been mentioned in another thread also! :eyebrows:

Marco
11-02-2009, 10:05
Ah, the VPI! :)

Marco.

Ali Tait
11-02-2009, 10:10
Nope not what I was thinking of! :eyebrows:

Mike
11-02-2009, 10:12
Is there a prize if we guess right :eyebrows:

Nope!

Mike
11-02-2009, 11:15
Ok... Just got off the phone after securing the deal so!

VPI JMW-9 Memorial Tonearm (less than 20hrs use) will be on it's way to me shortly. :)

Marco
11-02-2009, 11:19
Congrats - that's a very nice arm! I thought it was the VPI you were referring to before :)

Thing is, how long is it going to take to fit, slap the 33PTG on, and get playing some tunes, man... :gig:

Marco.

Mike
11-02-2009, 11:30
Should have it fitted and set up within a weekend, depending when it arrives and how troublesome the armboard turns out to be.

The other mods I have in mind, plinth, PSU, blah blah, will take longer. Especially the plinth, lots of work will have to be done outside in the sun.

Which means I need some sun! :)

Marco
11-02-2009, 11:36
If you were really serious about this you would move to Alicante and do the job right! ;)

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
11-02-2009, 11:45
Too many brits in Alicante!!!

The new arm for the SL1210 is allegedly at the caretakers lodge, ready for me to collect this evening:champagne: