View Full Version : C.D. RIP?
Early this year, Sideline Music and countless other media outlets reported that the few remaining major music labels are planning to eliminate CD recording by this time next year. According to Sideline’s coverage: The major labels plan to wind-down the CD-format by the end of 2012 and replace it with download/stream only releases via iTunes and related music services.
It is obvious why this is going to happen (it's more convenient to download files than to buy a physical copy) but I question the wisdom of it. If one were to damage a CD then only the media on that CD is lost. Should your hard drive be damaged then the chances are you will lose your entire media collection. For those who judiciously back up their data this will be nothing but an inconvenience, but in actuality a lot of us procrastinate over data backups so a sizeable group would fall victim to indecision and/or inaction.
Let's not beat about the bush here, the death of the Compact Disk will be the fault of lazy consumers. As a music replay format CD is perhaps technically flawed, however it is both convenient and cheap to produce. The only reason the music labels are preparing for its death knell is because we aren't buying enough CD's to make it financially viable for them to continue production. What we are seeing here is a repeat of the situation that transpired when CD's were first introduced in the 1980's, except the format that was under threat at the time was of course Vinyl. The irony of this hasn't escaped me.
The door is closing fast and consumers need to decide quickly whether they would rather own something tangible or settle for a string of ones and zeros on a hard drive. Unlike vinyl, I suspect that once the music CD has been phased out, there will be no way back for it...
maxrob200
06-09-2012, 05:17
Sad when the only available format for digital downloads appear to be mp3 not flac or wav. Consumers are being shortchanged in both quality and file formats
isuckedmandelsonslemons
06-09-2012, 05:17
I bought 51 CDs last month. Total cost was about £150. Mixture of eBay and Amazon bargains. I don't really understand downloading and regard it as noise to play on a phone or on iPod.
One of the daftest thing I ever did was sell my entire album collection many years ago. I was reliably informed that CD was the future and vinyl was dead.
I'm hoping that what we'll get in audiophile CDs rather than some of the compressed shite that is put out now on CD.
Harry
Sad when the only available format for digital downloads appear to be mp3 not flac or wav. Consumers are being shortchanged in both quality and file formats
Indeed... :rolleyes:
One of the daftest thing I ever did was sell my entire album collection many years ago. I was reliably informed that CD was the future and vinyl was dead.
You're not the only one... :doh:
maxrob200
06-09-2012, 05:30
Sold or gave away my vinyl as well...Reference Recordings, Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs, Chesky, arrrghhhhhh also my turntables LP 12 and SOTA argggghh
WOStantonCS100
06-09-2012, 06:25
Cheer up, fellas...
Several follow-ups say that the Sideline Music "reporting" is willfully erroneous.
Now, it wouldn't bother me in the least if they never pressed another CD (prefer vinyl, tape and hi-def burned to DVD); but, bogus reporting does get under me skin a little. In all honesty, if the major labels did give the CD "the boot" I'm sure the audiophile labels would keep spitting them out in the niche market. I don't think that's a bad thing either as these labels tend not to support the drivel and crap music thrust into every teenie bopper's face ("the demographically desireable").
The problem is though, that the record companies are in danger of cutting themselves out of the chain - download-only opens up new methods of distribution and virtually zero cost of entry for an artist wanting to distribute their music independently via options like Band Camp and even Amazon's CreateSpace (http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_left_sib?ie=UTF8&nodeId=15015781)
isuckedmandelsonslemons
06-09-2012, 08:21
My kids and all of their mates download tons and tons of music. None of them would dream of paying for it do how is this new business model going to work?
Audioman
06-09-2012, 10:17
My kids and all of their mates download tons and tons of music. None of them would dream of paying for it do how is this new business model going to work?
There was a long thread covering this subject on SH forum a while back. The original report had an agenda behind it in any case. About 40% of all music is still sold via CD (albums) and this is becoming increasingly sticky as the rate of increase in legal downloads reduces. Don't think the Music Industry can afford to alienate a large proportion of it's remaining market.
As far as illegal downloads are concerned parents and teachers should be educating kids that nothing is for free and this is stealing. There are now plenty 'free' streaming options that are perfectly legal for casual listening. Perhaps some day you may receive a large bill from the record companies.
Perhaps record companies should change their marketing model and stop ripping off consumers and artists alike... :rolleyes:
bobbasrah
06-09-2012, 10:59
Perhaps record companies should change their marketing model and stop ripping off consumers and artists alike... :rolleyes:
Seems familiar.....:wheniwasaboy: About as much chance of that as convincing government to reduce the income they have become used to...:wowzer:
Early this year, Sideline Music and countless other media outlets reported that the few remaining major music labels are planning to eliminate CD recording by this time next year. According to Sideline’s coverage: The major labels plan to wind-down the CD-format by the end of 2012 and replace it with download/stream only releases via iTunes and related music services.
Where have you got this information from? Is it speculation on your part, or does it have substance from a credible source, if so can you link to it?
The reason I ask is that I'm doubting it's validity ;)
Audioman
06-09-2012, 11:33
Perhaps record companies should change their marketing model and stop ripping off consumers and artists alike... :rolleyes:
I don't actualy think they are making excessive amounts these days. However the pricing of some of those collectors box sets is a bit mind boggling. My main issue is their lack of desire to promote and invest in enough genuine musical talent.
Perhaps record companies should change their marketing model and stop ripping off consumers and artists alike... :rolleyes:
It's not actually as bad as that for many artists, the major labels still take overly large margins, but there are some very good record labels out there that really support and help artists, Bella Union for example, but there are many more. The major labels are being squeezed a lot now by artists getting pledges from projects like Kickstarter and Bandcamp is really good too. The options for an artist are a lot more diverse than they used to be, but it does mean the end to cheap CD's. I don't actually think the format will end abruptly, sales are declining and the prices will rise - they are too cheap anyway. I used to pay 8.00 for an album in the late 70's!
Bands are still going to want to sell stuff at gigs and live music/merchandising is where they can still make money. I saw two unknown artists sell out of CD's at the weekend at 10.00 each, they must have sold a couple of hundred. That type of CD sale will be around for a long time yet IMO.
For me the devil is Apple and iTunes, they take 30% and do jack shit in return for the artists that are making them money.
For me the devil is Apple and iTunes, they take 30% and do jack shit in return for the artists that are making them money.
...and don't even supply a decent quality download!
isuckedmandelsonslemons
06-09-2012, 15:10
There was a long thread covering this subject on SH forum a while back. The original report had an agenda behind it in any case. About 40% of all music is still sold via CD (albums) and this is becoming increasingly sticky as the rate of increase in legal downloads reduces. Don't think the Music Industry can afford to alienate a large proportion of it's remaining market.
As far as illegal downloads are concerned parents and teachers should be educating kids that nothing is for free and this is stealing. There are now plenty 'free' streaming options that are perfectly legal for casual listening. Perhaps some day you may receive a large bill from the record companies.
I can assure you my kids all know the difference between right and wrong. Have you got kids? If so could you have a word with mine (19 and 22) and explain to them the error of their ways. I've obviously been a bad parent in the illegal download area. I can give you a little tip when you start your sermon with them, the eldest one is a semi-professional musician who was in his first rock band at 13. The 'taking the bread out of the mouths of starving musicians' routine might not work ;-)
I was reliably informed that CD was the future and vinyl was dead.
Unfortunately, you were reliably informed by an idiot.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
06-09-2012, 15:28
Unfortunately, you were reliably informed by an idiot.
Couldn't agree more. But pretty much every hifi expert at the time was saying the same thing. Experts eh?
Well, not everyone was saying the same thing....but I accept that it may have appeared that way.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
06-09-2012, 15:45
Yep. Not everyone but enough people to convince idiots like me.
That said I'm totally happy with my current CD player and being able to pick up great CDs for a couple of quid a time is great.
daytona600
06-09-2012, 15:55
will not be changing to downloads , re copright eg bruce willis fighting apple at present
will just get the vinyl version or buy cds 2nd hand instead
As far as illegal downloads are concerned parents and teachers should be educating kids that nothing is for free and this is stealing. There are now plenty 'free' streaming options that are perfectly legal for casual listening. Perhaps some day you may receive a large bill from the record companies.
It's certainly not stealing, it's copyright infringement - the original is still there, just that someone is not paying the royalties that the licencee is asking for listening to it.
In other words, they are simply not engaging in the "official" business model, one that is protected by law in order to allow people to recoupe costs of the creation so that there is incentive to creativity etc BUT also now protected by law that has been corrupted from it's original moral framework by large companies (Disney for example) in order to bypass this moral ideal in order to extend the life of their profits and lumbering business models at the expense of human cultural development.
Hardly a black and white issue!
The education you suggest would be more akin to brainwashing to one particular stance. Education should be about giving people the mental skills to assess the truth and make up their own mind, think through the consequences of an action.
Of course, you should be able to trust that a law has been well thought through and assume that there are consequences in breaking it that you may not have considered, hence it's reason for being there. But there are even artists themselves out there who are encouraging piracy of their own material because of the real nature of the industry; fraud regarding contracts, stifflying of output, amoral behaviour of labels etc - hardly clear cut.
will not be changing to downloads , re copright eg bruce willis fighting apple at present
will just get the vinyl version or buy cds 2nd hand instead
That story was revealed to be false, as statements from Bruce Willis' wife at least said (he may have chimed in too).
But it did gain attention to the fact that downloads are no more than a leasing agreement.
So the phase out of CDs would really mean a move away from being able to purchase music and being left with commercial rental companies.
I don't see many real artists (discounting those who just want to be rich and famous) wanting to even be involved with that profit-first model and therefore there will be an alternative, probably something physical or a free model - see Kim Dotcom's MEGA model as an example.
I don't see CD dying - some people, just as with vinyl, have massive collections and the secondhand market is awash with CDs and will be for decades.
They are so easy to burn and print that artists can get massive runs paid for relatively cheaply if they can raise funds up front (plenty of kickstart type sites around) and sell from their own website and so keep all the profit rather than only getting 5% or whatever the average artist's cut is on a CD.
bobbasrah
06-09-2012, 17:12
CD will not die, it will simply diminish from it's once dominant digital distribution model,
and be supplanted by downloads or to a stick or SD card or direct to device at a selling agent.
One thing you can be sure of is that the price will be kept high irrespective, so the more indies the better to be honest. They will dictate the market once the last stranglehold on distribution is loosed, something the established empires have monopolised for far too long.... All they will be left with is a (admitedly huge) back-catalogue...
I don't see CD dying
No, I don't either.
But it did gain attention to the fact that downloads are no more than a leasing agreement.
Really? Appears only Apps and books, not music.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=358652&postcount=13
...and in any case, you don't "own" the music with a cd - you just own the physical medium it is stored on.
WOStantonCS100
06-09-2012, 18:30
Unfortunately, you were reliably informed by an idiot.
:rfl:
Those reliable eediots did campaign extremely hard... even had vinyl removed from the shelves.
...and in any case, you don't "own" the music with a cd - you just own the physical medium it is stored on.
spot on Alex and most people don't realise they don't 'own' what's written in a book, just the medium its printed on.
I would also be willing to bet my no claims bonus that CD as a format will outlive me too, it's in decline agreed, but it's not going to die out totally for sometime yet - it's still going to be a cheap way of obtaining music physically, how often they get played after they are purchased is another matter. Artists are always going to want to be able to sell their music at live performances, especially lesser known ones, so until that hurdle is overcome CD's are not going anywhere.
:rfl:
Those reliable eediots did campaign extremely hard... even had vinyl removed from the shelves.
Yep, my experience is that fools do seem to enjoy proclaiming their stupidity as loudly as possible ;).
So, how many companies are making CD transports these days?
Couldn't agree more. But pretty much every hifi expert at the time was saying the same thing. Experts eh?
An expert is a man who knows 100 different ways to make love, but doesn't know any women.
The Grand Wazoo
07-09-2012, 06:22
An expert is a man who knows 100 different ways to make love, but doesn't know any women.
I also understand that the word is derived thus:
Defintion of 'ex'........'a has been'
Definition of 'spurt'..........'uncontrollable drip'
So, how many companies are making CD transports these days?
Exactly, the problem is not just the media but the hardware as well.
There seems to be little incentive for the continued manufacture, storage & distribution of a physical media either if profitability continues to fall.
The OP is an excerpt from a trade Email & therefore is undoubtedly biased, hence the?.
I also understand that the word is derived thus:
Defintion of 'ex'........'a has been'
Definition of 'spurt'..........'uncontrollable drip'
Yes Chris, although the version I am most familiar with is:
"ex" is an unknown quantity
" spurt" is a drip under pressure
Must be the Southern Hemisphere version;)
...and my version is a hybrid! An "ex" is an old has been, a "spurt" is a drip under pressure
Really? Appears only Apps and books, not music.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=358652&postcount=13
...and in any case, you don't "own" the music with a cd - you just own the physical medium it is stored on.
Of course you don't suddenly own the music or the rights to it but you DO own that particular copy of the data on that CD. The data is set into the polycarbonate so if you own the polycarbonate, you own every dent an indentation, every pit on it.
To say you don't would be like buying a print and claiming that you've only bought the paper and ink but not the image. The image IS the paper and ink.
Because of the different philosophical stance taken in law over downloads, it's considered that these particular 1s and 0s don't have a home, they don't make a physical mark on a USB stick (even though they do, physical states in chips).
At no point do you own an instance of 1s and 0s with a download as you do a CD, you only are licenced to have something of your own recreate that pattern (part of your hard-drive or a memory card etc) for your own use.
Moving the 1s and 0s from one storage device to another, if it's not for the licence user's own personal use is illegal, even if you destroy the original. So it is effectively the same as a lease agreement where you're not allowed to pass it on to anyone else. They just want it destroyed when you're done rather than return it.
Maybe the Apple thing was confusing - Apple are only a shop for downloads. You wouldn't look at HMV's T&Cs to workout copyright law. What is referenced in the post you pointed to are Apples iTunes Store t&cs and to do with moving accounts over and being able to download again everything that has been bought.
More relevent is the case against Redigi, a company aiming to re-sell iTunes downloads once they are deleted from the original owner's hardware.
Reading about Regidi seems to bare the above out, at least this is the stance from the music industry, not Redigi.
With a CD, just as with a print, you CAN change the licence user, simply by selling or giving the CD or print to someone else. Only duplication is illegal with CD. With a download, you can't change the licence user at any point.
All above is AFAIK....
I think the future will be more to do with the artist's self releasing and going for a less restrictive licence themselves, possibly using 'free' distribution models like MEGA - where you agree to use an ad-blocker / replacer, installing their own advert streams over google ads for example in order to download new music with the artists receiving revenue. Without the ads you pay for each download but I think licencing might allow you to still distribute freely to spread the music to a wider audience.
Take that US comedian (might be Canadian) Louis CK for example too. He made a live show DVD but rejected HBO for distribution who wanted to control release date pushing into the next year, would have taken about $28 for each $30 DVD and of course strictly controlled the licence. He self-released from his own site a $5 download with cover art with no copy restricition other than not able to sell the content. He made $Million in just two weeks! He was so overwhelmed by the response that he gave a lot of the profit to charity.
That distribution model is MORE likely to end CD production simply due to it cutting costs but if you're into an artist, you will want that hand made paper covered CD or a copy on vinyl so it will still survive. Whereas the current industry led licencing model really encourages a physical medium just to help with your own rights in usuage, passing it to others etc.
StanleyB
07-09-2012, 22:37
This discussion somehow reminds me of the 8 track tape machines. The one installed in the Voyager spacecraft and blasted into space in 1977 is still going. Unfortunately the scientists did not include a CD player as well. So I have no idea how any alien is going to play the gold disc on board the space craft.
This discussion somehow reminds me of the 8 track tape machines. The one installed in the Voyager spacecraft and blasted into space in 1977 is still going. Unfortunately the scientists did not include a CD player as well. So I have no idea how any alien is going to play the gold disc on board the space craft.
Perhaps they were worried about Laser life Stan:eyebrows:
bobbasrah
08-09-2012, 08:06
I think the future will be more to do with the artist's self releasing and going for a less restrictive licence themselves.......
...Louis CK for example too. He made a live show DVD but rejected HBO for distribution who wanted to control release date pushing into the next year, would have taken about $28 for each $30 DVD and of course strictly controlled the licence. He self-released from his own site a $5 download with cover art with no copy restricition other than not able to sell the content. He made $Million in just two weeks! He was so overwhelmed by the response that he gave a lot of the profit to charity.
............but if you're into an artist, you will want that hand made paper covered CD or a copy on vinyl so it will still survive. Whereas the current industry led licencing model really encourages a physical medium just to help with your own rights in usuage, passing it to others etc.
Self-recording/mastering/release on the internet is inevitable, irrespective of the business model adopted, as it bypasses the self-interested established monopolies. The potential financial rewards to the artistes are immense compared to the existing, as the Louis CK example demonstrates in terms of distribution side, but being freed from the artistic constraints imposed by the major players should not be overlooked either. :steam:
Traditional packaging, CD and vinyl will probably survive in the short term, but how long that minority audience will be served is questionable, irrespective of it's current legal or tactile justification. :scratch:
Cover picture and sleeve notes have only really been around for half the life of phonographic recordings after all, and CD's only inherited the tradition....;)
Traditional packaging, CD and vinyl will probably survive in the short term, but how long that minority audience will be served is questionable, irrespective of it's current legal or tactile justification. :scratch:
Well browsing the reasonably large selection of 'audiophile' vinyl in Jumbo Records in Leeds the other week I was both surprised and pleased to notice that a number of youngsters (in their early twenties) doing the same. Vinyl is already a well-establised niche market. It is exclusive, different and dare I say it cool - which is why it is attracting these kids, I suspect. I imagine that CD will become a similar niche legacy product over the next decade.
MP3 downloads are really the replacement for the compact cassette. Original recordings on cassette were the biggest selling format through the 'eighties, lets not forget. Sold on convenience, not sound quality, because the mass market will always value convenience and low price over all else.
bobbasrah
08-09-2012, 08:39
Fashionable or otherwise Martin, no argument that LP is enjoying a resurgence of interest, and it is good to see.
How long new pressings will continue from the big players is questionable as it is all about business, and their empire is crumbling....
Strangely I only ever bought one cassette from memory, which so apalled me in terms of recording quality, it convinced me to record my own off LP.
Still have them all in archive boxes out the back, next to the LPs.
One of these days.....
There is a new ZZ Top album out on Monday and I notice that even a mainstream supplier like Amazon is offering it as a CD, download and vinyl record. That is a major label release and they obviously thought it worth their while financially to release it on vinyl. That bodes well.
As long as there are pressing plants still open I do not think it will ever be an issue. If they should eventually all close their doors that will be it as the cost of re-tooling from scratch would no doubt be prohibitive.
As vinyl sales increase Martin, it will become financially viable to open new pressing plants I'm guessing ;)
There is a new ZZ Top album out on Monday and I notice that even a mainstream supplier like Amazon is offering it as a CD, download and vinyl record.
I go to see a lot of bands live Martin and they are almost exclusively smaller lesser know artists and it is becoming rarer now for the merch desk not to offer their latest recordings on vinyl as well as CD. I would never have seen that a few years ago. What is nice to see is that at most of the gigs I go to, the audience is predominantly younger than me and its them buying the vinyl, not the old crusty's.
What some bands are doing now is selling CD & vinyl and if you buy the vinyl you get a code in the LP that gives access to a digital download in both lossless and lossy formats :)
As vinyl sales increase Martin, it will become financially viable to open new pressing plants I'm guessing ;)
Dave I think that is a little too optimistic although it would be great to see it happen. Even if I wanted to open a new plant tomorrow, is anyone actually making the cutting lathes and the presses that I would need anymore?
I have no idea Martin, but I'm sure they'd find someone to do it if there was money in it. I'm the original eternal optimist btw :D
I have no idea Martin, but I'm sure they'd find someone to do it if there was money in it. I'm the original eternal optimist btw :D
Yeah, being pesimistic uses up way too much energy :lol:
Stratmangler
08-09-2012, 09:30
There is a new ZZ Top album out on Monday
It's on Spotify already :)
It's on Spotify already :)
Is it worth forking out for? Or are you not a fan?
Stratmangler
08-09-2012, 09:41
Is it worth forking out for? Or are you not a fan?
I have all of their albums up to Afterburner on vinyl.
I stopped buying their stuff then.
I'll play the new one a few times and see if it grows on me first... :eyebrows:
I have all of their albums up to Afterburner on vinyl.
I stopped buying their stuff then.
I'll play the new one a few times and see if it grows on me first... :eyebrows:
I also have them all on vinyl but one further - up to 'Recycler' which I think is from 1990. The last one I bought was 1994's 'Rythemeen' on CD. Think I might get the new one on vinyl even if it is £25 :eek:
Reid Malenfant
08-09-2012, 19:31
As far as illegal downloads are concerned parents and teachers should be educating kids that nothing is for free and this is stealing.
I totally agree with you about the illegal downloads from say torrent sites Paul :)
However, I would like to point out that there are hundreds of netlabel sites out there with music available for download & it'll cost you nothing as the music is actually free :D
One that I still haven't fully plundered (not even finished on the FLACs yet) let alone the 320KBPS MP3 is Earth Mantra
(http://earthmantra.com/artists.php)
Listening to some of the stuff I downloaded as I am typing, very good it is too, though I guess it's my kind of music :)
I also cannot see CD dieing a death, Pete Namlook manages to release CDs with editions of 300 or so on his FAX record label & still make enough money to live on :cool:
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