Oriton BlackBullets

[jostber]

Anyone tried these and can say something on how they perform?

http://www.oriton.co.uk/hifi-highend-products/blackbullets/

[Barry]

Anyone tried these and can say something on how they perform?

http://www.oriton.co.uk/hifi-highend-products/blackbullets/

Four more extra electrical contacts in the chain - not a good idea.

Anyway I don't believe all that stuff about mechanical vibrations being ducted by cables. If they do, your cables are too stiff and inflexible!

[Wakefield Turntables]

i'll just try and stop vibration getting into my deck with my euipment rack and mass. I think I'll save £55 thanks very much.

[hifi_dave]

Wasn't there a previous thread abouth these ?

All I can see they do is put extra needless connections in the signal path..:scratch:

[sq225917]

Four more extra electrical contacts in the chain - not a good idea.

Anyway I don't believe all that stuff about mechanical vibrations being ducted by cables. If they do, your cables are too stiff and inflexible!

A sensible opinion. Just think how much the transformer vibrates in every piece of kit. Now do people really assume that teeny tiny none existent vibrations on signal cables make any difference- crazy huh?

[Wakefield Turntables]

+1 to that brother ;)

[Reffc]

These have been out for a while now and the claims have never been backed up by evidence. All they do is add a mechanical buffer which can never truly remove all vibration and more especially, they add capacitance and additional electrical connectivity problems to the audio chain. Its like saying "give us £54 and we'll make your connections worse". Decent cables already employ good damping materials in dielectrics and conductor spacers such as cotton packing and foamed PE. No need for these magic plugs. All they seem to magically do is to magically remove £54 from one's wallet.

[hifi_dave]

There's no magic in that. If anyone wants to send me £54, I'll quite happily dispose of it for you.

[Wakefield Turntables]

:lol: nice reply.

[MCRU]

Anyone tried these and can say something on how they perform?

http://www.oriton.co.uk/hifi-highend-products/blackbullets/

Don't really know but I would like my power supply back please?

[MCRU]

These have been out for a while now and the claims have never been backed up by evidence. All they do is add a mechanical buffer which can never truly remove all vibration and more especially, they add capacitance and additional electrical connectivity problems to the audio chain. Its like saying "give us £54 and we'll make your connections worse". Decent cables already employ good damping materials in dielectrics and conductor spacers such as cotton packing and foamed PE. No need for these magic plugs. All they seem to magically do is to magically remove £54 from one's wallet.

So you have heard them then?

[sq225917]

Do you need to hear them to know that they cannot physically do anything other than impede the signal electrically.

[MCRU]

What are they being sold for? To make your hi-fi sound either the same, better, worse or different, you have to hear them before making snap judgements, why poo poo the product without even listening to it, just plain daft!

[Reffc]

What are they being sold for? To make your hi-fi sound either the same, better, worse or different, you have to hear them before making snap judgements, why poo poo the product without even listening to it, just plain daft!


Simple...To make money.

A decent cable has absolutely no need of anything except decent connectors IMHO. The sort of impact that micro-vibrations may have within a decent cable sound wise are so minuscule to be non-existent in terms of distortion compared to shifting a loudspeaker by inches, the room interactions and a myriad of other aspects. A factor in cable design? Yes, of course, which is why some cable designs account for it. IME, a poor connector impedes the latent performance of many a decent cable, so adding something that presents just another electrical junction with unspecified electrical characteristics is unlikely to do anything but degrade the signal further. I don't have to listen or try such a device to understand that but people are free to make their own decisions and are of course free to spend a grand putting these things behind every set of IC's they own...or putting the same money towards decent IC's or better still an upgrade to amp or speakers....all IMHO of course. Better still, put the cash towards a decent few bottles of malt or a case of wine and the muisc will have never sounded soooo good :cool:

[Barry]

Simple...To make money.

A decent cable has absolutely no need of anything except decent connectors IMHO. The sort of impact that micro-vibrations may have within a decent cable sound wise are so minuscule to be non-existent in terms of distortion compared to shifting a loudspeaker by inches, the room interactions and a myriad of other aspects. A factor in cable design? Yes, of course, which is why some cable designs account for it. IME, a poor connector impedes the latent performance of many a decent cable, so adding something that presents just another electrical junction with unspecified electrical characteristics is unlikely to do anything but degrade the signal further. I don't have to listen or try such a device to understand that but people are free to make their own decisions and are of course free to spend a grand putting these things behind every set of IC's they own...or putting the same money towards decent IC's or better still an upgrade to amp or speakers....all IMHO of course. Better still, put the cash towards a decent few bottles of malt or a case of wine and the muisc will have never sounded soooo good :cool:

+1


.... you have to hear them before making snap judgements, why poo poo the product without even listening to it, just plain daft!

That's the kind of argument that Beltists would make, as well as those that sell crystals and magical devices made of rare exotic hardwoods, that one is supposed to place judiciously near, or on, one's audio gear.

There are some ideas which simply do not make any engineering sense and are more likely not to offer any improvement at all. Any audible benefits claimed are more likely to be due to the cleaning effect of the original plugs when these 'vibration blockers' are installed.

£55 would be far better spent on software (or a bottle of decent malt or a case of wine, as has been suggested).

[Marco]

Do you need to hear them to know that they cannot physically do anything other than impede the signal electrically.

Wrong. They rape your ass to the tune of £55...

I agree. I'm all for listening to things when it's genuinely warranted, but some stuff is just plain, out and out, bobbins - and these "Oriton Black Bullets" are a case in point. They'd only be effective if the designer fired them up his arse, as a suppository.

My advice? Avoid like the plague, and spend the money on music instead! :exactly:

Marco.

[YNWaN]

Simple...To make money.

A decent cable has absolutely no need of anything except decent connectors IMHO. The sort of impact that micro-vibrations may have within a decent cable sound wise are so minuscule to be non-existent in terms of distortion compared to shifting a loudspeaker by inches, the room interactions and a myriad of other aspects. A factor in cable design? Yes, of course, which is why some cable designs account for it. IME, a poor connector impedes the latent performance of many a decent cable, so adding something that presents just another electrical junction with unspecified electrical characteristics is unlikely to do anything but degrade the signal further. I don't have to listen or try such a device to understand that but people are free to make their own decisions and are of course free to spend a grand putting these things behind every set of IC's they own...or putting the same money towards decent IC's or better still an upgrade to amp or speakers....all IMHO of course. Better still, put the cash towards a decent few bottles of malt or a case of wine and the muisc will have never sounded soooo good :cool:

I entirely agree.

[prestonchipfryer]

Vibration control, isn't that something for use in the bedroom? :lol:

[Ammonite Audio]

C'mon chaps - what happened to the AoS open, subjectivist mindset? I am happy to recommend Vertex stuff, which deals with acoustic energy (in a more comprehensive way, I might add), so maybe there is something to these devices. This sort of derision is not far off what I expect to read on the 'Wam :rolleyes:

[Marco]

Some stuff, Hugo, is just out-and-out foo, and deserves to be exposed as such. It gives the 'genuine foo' a bad name! ;)

Hope you're staying safe out there, mate :)

Marco.

[sq225917]

There's three types of foo in this world.

1. Known good tweaks.
2. Plausible tweaks.
3. Products that have a basis firmly in magic.

This one falls into the third category.

There's also a 4th category of tweak, where the manufacturer actually lies about what makes the difference to cash in on some in fashion 'trend', when in reality simple science is the only thing at play- but they don't want to sell you simple science as that's not trendy.

[Ammonite Audio]

There's three types of foo in this world.

1. Known good tweaks.
2. Plausible tweaks.
3. Products that have a basis firmly in magic.

This one falls into the third category.

There's also a 4th category of tweak, where the manufacturer actually lies about what makes the difference to cash in on some in fashion 'trend', when in reality simple science is the only thing at play- but they don't want to sell you simple science as that's not trendy.

That's quite a strong and confident statement to make and it's interesting to note that you class all the above as "foo". Presumably you know all about the science involved with these Oriton things (I do not). Maybe they do nothing beneficial, but FFS why not give them the benefit of doubt - maybe others with a less determined mindset could be happy with what they may do. They wouldn't have your ears, mind or technical expertise, but there is a possibility that you are simply wrong and for someone prepared to give them a whirl, they may just do everything claimed of them. I repeat what I said earlier - the sniggering and hectoring tone of this thread more befits other well-known objectivist forums; and I for one do not wish to see the notably open-minded AoS going that way.

[Marco]

Hi Hugo,

Fair enough, mate. You're entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else is :)

Marco.

[sq225917]

There's nothing wrong with a bit of objective rational thought, it doesn't hurt babies and it doesn't stop people enjoying their music.

But look at it this way. If these things are meant to, as claim, reduce vibration going into your gear then what is the point of using them with any bit of gear with a transformer inside. Because there will be vibration coming from that transformer at a somewhat higher level than any external cable will be.

If you are worried about the deleterious effects of vibration I suggest you do something worthwhile to physically isolate those 'real' and 'significant' sources of vibration that already exist within nearly every piece of hifi that you own.


You're in luck the importer is only 4 miles away from you. Maybe they'll let you do a home demo.

[Ammonite Audio]

As I said, I use Vertex stuff, so I am already open-minded about the effects of acoustic energy being passed along cables etc. I'm sorry that you have decided that these things cannot work because of the presence of transformers. Maybe they do work on different forms of vibrational energy; and, in this hobby, £55 isn't exactly the rip-off of the century.

No, I'm not about to buy these things because having at least partly addressed acoustic and vibration energy management in my system, I don't need them.

[synsei]

I do take Hugo's point, after all there are those out there who vehemently claim that cable burn in is foo and yet my own experiments suggest otherwise (at least with Belkin IC's). My advice to anyone interested in this product would be to arrange for a demo in your own system, that way you will hear for yourselves whether they do what is claimed ;)

[sq225917]

"Other forms of vibrational energy" Like what for example?

You can be 100% certain that the greatest source of self noise in any piece of Hifi comes from the transformer. It's so loud it's audible, have you ever heard an interconnect vibrate loudly enough to be audible? No neither has anyone else.


It makes sense to deal with the Audible before worrying about the inaudible/impossible.

[Marco]

It's not so much the vibrational energy thing I'm 'dissing', but the extra electrical connections added to the equation, from using these Black Bullet adaptors, which I consider as being totally counter-productive.

Even if they deal positively in some way with vibrational energy, what you gain on one hand, you're losing on the other, from the negative sonic effect created by adding more electrical connections. I don't do compromises like that, as it goes against all my purist principles of keeping the signal path as short as possible.

Far better to address the issue of vibrational energy (if it exists), at source, and fix it, than add a bandage further on in the chain, in an attempt to fix it there, where in doing so, you create another set of problems - and an expensive 'bandage' is *precisely* what these things are! :exactly:

Even without using this product, for the reasons outlined above, it's most definitely not for me. I don't have to taste jellied eels either to know that I don't like them!! ;)

Marco.

[sq225917]

I'm firmly with Marco here also, fewer connections = better.

If you really think vibration goes up wires from one bit of gear to the next then put a bloody big weight on them close to the upstream component. Or use more flexible wires incapable of passing any 'vibrational energy'.