New music server Vs Apple TV shootout.

[Martinh]

Having seen my 6-year-old daughter off to school this morning, I sat down to listen to some of my favourite music in a somewhat celebratory mood :)

The purpose was to pitch my old Apple TV2 up against my shiny new windows based music server. Having spent £380 on my new toy, it would be rather embarrassing if the £99 ATV wasnt sonically inferior, wouldn't it?

I wanted an equal fight, so set about trying to create a level playing field that wouldnt give either player an unfair advantage.

So, heres the setup - PC, ATV, V-link and Bushmaster. second photo is the ATV on top of my new PC.

http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/frontend.jpg http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/players.jpg

Apple setup: PC in office running iTunes - Apple lossless files - Ethernet - ATV - optical SPDIF - Bushmaster.

PC setup: PC running JRiver - FLAC files - V-link - coax SPDIF - Bushmaster.

Both were used headless, controlled via their prospective remote control apps on my tablet. The ATV was connected to a PC in the office via ethernet and the Music PC was playing files from it's in-built HDD.

I started by playing a 1 kHz test tone through each and set the 2 systems to play the same volume, using my SPL meter.

Once the volumes were equalised, I started a nice relaxed listening session.

My moosic was:

Rumer - Aretha and Am I Forgiven
KD Lang - Miss Chatelaine and Constant Craving
Katie Melua - 6 million bicycles
Tina Dico - Count to Ten

Yes, I know that they are all female singers, but that's my thing :ner:

My listening room (lounge):

http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/montage.jpg

I won't go into detail track by track, as I pretty much came to the same conclusion with all of the tracks. This conclusion also mirrors the findings of our recent session at Coherent systems, when we compared my new PC to Neals Touch.

The old ATV sounded bolder and more up front than the PC. The PC had a more delicate and perhaps more laid back feel - More natural sounding. Better.

Upon further listening, it was plain to hear that the PC simply resolves more of the detail. Or rather, less detail seems to be lost or misplaced on its journey from HDD to DAC.

I don't know where the improvement is being made: at the encoding, decoding, playing, transmitting stage etc. To me it doesn't really matter because the PC/Jriver combo with FLAC sounds better than the Apple Lossless/ATV combo.

Not by a lot though and I'd stick my neck out and say that the ATV might give the Touch a run for it's money :rolleyes:. Perhaps.

So I can sleep tonight, sound in the knowledge that I haven't needlessly blown £380 on something that sounds no better than a £99 toy. Whew! :)

Thanks for reading.

Cheers,

[AlfaGTV]

Great write-up!
I'm not surprised with the results, it should be like this!
Were you using ASIO/Wasapi or something in JRiver?

/Mike

[Martinh]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your kind words. I was expecting my new PC to be better, but just hadn't had the time to sit down and compare.

I'm using WASAPI event mode. Not sure what that means, but it sounds good!

I've been pleasantly surprised by the useability of the PC as well, thanks to JRiver and the remote apps for the tablet or smartphone. The PC finally is good for the living room!

Cheers,

[colinB]

Thanks for the write up Martin. Ive been weighing up the options of pc/mac mini/ atv for a while now not making my mind up.
Why the v-link, i take it the pc has no optical out?

[Martinh]

Thanks for the write up Martin. Ive been weighing up the options of pc/mac mini/ atv for a while now not making my mind up.
Why the v-link, i take it the pc has no optical out?

Thanks Colin,

Yes, my PC does have an optical out, however I decided to get a V-link on the advice of other AoS members. Im not 100 % sure what it does exactly, but it seems to work. I've never used the system without it, so maybe I should make a comparison with and without it someday.

I really like the JRiver software and it's apparently going to be available for the MAC soon, so you'll have lots of options.

I'd say go for it.

[bobbasrah]

I'm using WASAPI event mode. Not sure what that means, but it sounds good!



Just to clarify Martin,
WASAPI is the Win7 incarnation of ASIO - Effectively it pipes the digital through unmolested by the system audio mixer etc.....;)
Have fun....:eyebrows:

[NRG]

My SB at our meet wasn't a touch ;) . It was an SB classic one of the first ones and as we discussed at the time I would not be rushing out to swap to an all PC playback system. The systems sounded different but better is a subjective view point, which I appreciate every one has a preference but I preferred my setup on the day and again as discussed so much depends on personal likes and music genre that it really comes down to individual choice.

[Martinh]

My SB at our meet wasn't a touch ;) . It was an SB classic one of the first ones and as we discussed at the time I would not be rushing out to swap to an all PC playback system. The systems sounded different but better is a subjective view point, which I appreciate every one has a preference but I preferred my setup on the day and again as discussed so much depends on personal likes and music genre that it really comes down to individual choice.

Hi Neal,

I stand corrected on your setup. You are absolutely right re. the differences we heard at Tony's place. Indeed, I do prefer a more laid back sound. Your SB definitely has more drive, which suits some systems and ears better. What I was (unsuccessfully) trying to say was that the ATV has a similar sonic character to your SB, not that the PC was better, just different. My PC pulls more detail than the ATV. Hope that makes sense.

Incidentally, I also make use of the JRiver EQ, which has been very useful to tune out some nasty bass nodes in my L-shaped room. The one-note bass has been cured. I know its not the done thing, but the bottom end does benefit greatly.

cheers,

[Martinh]

Just to clarify Martin,
WASAPI is the Win7 incarnation of ASIO - Effectively it pipes the digital through unmolested by the system audio mixer etc.....;)
Have fun....:eyebrows:

Thanks for the info Bob, I'm still firmly in the learning curve ;)

That may be part of my problem with running the Spotify program alongside JRiver, because sometimes I get a Spotify error message saying that there's a sound card issue. I read somewhere that JRiver wants exclusive use of the sound card on WASAPI mode?

Or am I doing something else wrong?

[bobbasrah]

That may be part of my problem with running the Spotify program alongside JRiver, because sometimes I get a Spotify error message saying that there's a sound card issue. I read somewhere that JRiver wants exclusive use of the sound card on WASAPI mode?

Or am I doing something else wrong?

No experience of Spotify nor how it might work with JRiver Martin, sorry, perhaps one of the lads who use them will be along shortly.

WASAPI/ASIO sets exclusive use to say a program and output port and will allow no sharing or mixing of either, if that makes sense.
eg - My usbDAC is exclusively linked to the audio media player prog, so I am listening to Al diMeola on the system now, while system sounds pop up on the TV via HDMI simultaneously as controlled by Win7's Audio Devices....

[Martinh]

No experience of Spotify nor how it might work with JRiver Martin, sorry, perhaps one of the lads who use them will be along shortly.

WASAPI/ASIO sets exclusive use to say a program and output port and will allow no sharing or mixing of either, if that makes sense.
eg - My usbDAC is exclusively linked to the audio media player prog, so I am listening to Al diMeola on the system now, while system sounds pop up on the TV via HDMI simultaneously as controlled by Win7's Audio Devices....

Yes, that makes sense and gives me an idea :idea:

Maybe I could set JRiver to use the V-Link USB output and then set windows and spotify to use the built-in sound card, which has its own optical out. Worth a try?

The reason for the problem is that because I use the PC without a screen, I need to auto start JRiver and Spotify when the PC starts up. I think its because of this that I have the problem :scratch:

Cheers Bob,

[bobbasrah]

Yes, that makes sense and gives me an idea :idea:

Maybe I could set JRiver to use the V-Link USB output and then set windows and spotify to use the built-in sound card, which has its own optical out. Worth a try?

The reason for the problem is that because I use the PC without a screen, I need to auto start JRiver and Spotify when the PC starts up. I think its because of this that I have the problem :scratch:

Cheers Bob,

Indeed, that is how my setup is - music set on ASIO to the usbDAC, all else via the mixer.:eyebrows:
If the mixer (Playback Devices) is set to Optical output, I flip the amp input from DAC to Computer so the system plays both as selected.;)

[Martinh]

Indeed, that is how my setup is - music set on ASIO to the usbDAC, all else via the mixer.:eyebrows:
If the mixer (Playback Devices) is set to Optical output, I flip the amp input from DAC to Computer so the system plays both as selected.;)

Bob, you are a genius. It's official.

The beers are on me :cool:

Cheers,

[Tim]

I read somewhere that JRiver wants exclusive use of the sound card on WASAPI mode?

Or am I doing something else wrong?
You have it right Martin, Spotify and JRiver should not be running at the same time as both players will try to control the output, but it looks like you have it sussed now anyway.

[bobbasrah]

So are you sorted now Martin ?

[Martinh]

So are you sorted now Martin ?

Hi Bob,

I've not had a chance to try it yet, as I need to go into the loft to get another optical cable out. Will have a go later and see if it works and report back.

Cheers,

[bobbasrah]

:popcorn:

[Martinh]

I tried it and all is good! :)

I now have JRiver playing files through the V-Link and Spotify playing via the onboard sound card/optical out. I just switch between inputs on my DAC to select between the two. Works a treat!

JRiver and SPotify auto start when Windows boots and then I use the respective tablet apps to control them. Seems to work, with no apparent conflicts that I can see.

Thank you for all your help chaps,

[brian2957]

Hi Martin , have you tried Fidelizer with your setup . I'm using a server with JRiver and a V-Link into a Caiman . However I find I get a further improvement with Fidelizer.

[Martinh]

Hi Martin , have you tried Fidelizer with your setup . I'm using a server with JRiver and a V-Link into a Caiman . However I find I get a further improvement with Fidelizer.

Sort of.

I loaded it up and set it to the middle setting. Cant remember which one that was. Problem was that the non-audio functions became very sluggish (my hardware is quite low powered), so I disabled it. Need to play around with it a bit more though. Any tips for settings?

Cheers,

[brian2957]

Sorry mate , it came installed with the server . I just click on it and it improves the sound . Gary ( Gazjam ) may be able to help you with this. I'm sure if he can help you he will :)