What Step up transformer,for my technics 1210mk2? [Archive]

Rich On TC1

03-09-2012, 19:04

Marco,

You have been of great help,and thanks for the link to ebay.
If i get it this week,i would hope to have it up and running by the weekend,
as saturday is my normal listening day.

Will keep you posted on that score when it is all sorted.

Looking a little bit further down the line,i do intend to get a jelco 750d,to work with the 103.
The thing is, i need to know how far iam going to take my techie,as iam not going to be able spend vasts amounts of money at it.(£800)
so apart from the arm, what should be the last upgrades i should be doing,taking into account the feet i have got from mains cables r us,and the two box power supply from them also,and herbies matt (sound hifi). would a new bearing and headshell finish the mix,and make it a truly capable deck?

Ps

Thanks for the 103 link!, if the 103 is truly a mans cartridge,then i had better grow up fast!:lol:

Marco

03-09-2012, 21:43

Hi Richard,

You have been of great help,and thanks for the link to ebay.
If i get it this week,i would hope to have it up and running by the weekend,
as saturday is my normal listening day.

Will keep you posted on that score when it is all sorted.

Nice one, please do. We always like to hear how people get on with any recommendations made :)

Looking a little bit further down the line,i do intend to get a jelco 750d,to work with the 103.
The thing is, i need to know how far iam going to take my techie,as iam not going to be able spend vasts amounts of money at it.(£800)
so apart from the arm, what should be the last upgrades i should be doing,taking into account the feet i have got from mains cables r us,and the two box power supply from them also,and herbies matt (sound hifi). would a new bearing and headshell finish the mix,and make it a truly capable deck?

In a nutshell, yes. Once you've fitted the Jelco, fit a new bearing (the Vantage Audio version is the one I'd recommend for your budget) and you'll have a very capable turntable indeed, so no need to do much else but buy records!

The only other thing I'd consider is fitting a different mat and buying a record weight or clamp. In terms of mats, you can do better than the Herbies. You could also consider a better headshell, but it depends on how much of your budget is left after sorting out everything else.

Mat wise, my advice would be to go for a 5mm Achromat, from the Funk Firm (the special one designed for the Technics), as sonically, it will gel well with the rest of your kit, making sure to bond it firmly to the platter, using the supplied adhesive pads. Add a Michell record clamp (for £30 or so) and you're away! :cool:

Marco.

Rich On TC1

04-09-2012, 19:10

Hi Marco,

It would seem that you have put me on the right path to where i want to be as far as upgrades are concerned.And thanks for that.

The Vantage Audio bearing upgrade looks very interesting.And at around £80 seems a bargain to have your old bearing converted.
I could not,and would not go to anything like a timestep bearing,as it would take me out of my budget.
The funk firm matt is another very interesting one.You say about sticking the matt with the pads that come with it.
If the matt is bonded to the platter,does that then make it harder to remove the platter,because you can no longer get access to the holes on the platter?

I was told by the nice chap from mains cables r us,that the headshell on a jelco 750d is not very good,and that you should look to be getting something like a oyaide HS-TF carbon fibre headshell at around £199.
what do you think on this?

Looking forward to getting the (SUT) soon, and i shall report back when i do!

Cheers again marco:)

Marco

04-09-2012, 21:09

Hi Richard,

The Vantage Audio bearing upgrade looks very interesting.And at around £80 seems a bargain to have your old bearing converted.

Yup, you should go for that, as everyone who's had it done has raved about the subsequent improvement in sound quality, and I know from experience just how sonically influential a bearing upgrade is on a turntable!

The funk firm matt is another very interesting one.You say about sticking the matt with the pads that come with it.
If the matt is bonded to the platter,does that then make it harder to remove the platter,because you can no longer get access to the holes on the platter?

That's true, but you can get it to pop off quite easily, by inserting a craft knife (or Stanley blade) underneath the mat, and gently prizing it upwards, so it's not a major issue - and let's face it, how often to do need to take off the platter?

The advantage of bonding the mat firmly to the platter is that you don't get even the tiniest amount of slippage (which can happen with non-bonded Achromats on certain platters), and more importantly, the close-coupling effect you create between the mat and platter, improves sound quality.

I was told by the nice chap from mains cables r us,that the headshell on a jelco 750d is not very good,and that you should look to be getting something like a oyaide HS-TF carbon fibre headshell at around £199.
what do you think on this?

The Oyaide headshell is very good indeed, and significantly better than the one on the Jelco, but one could argue that, such money could be better spent elsewhere on your system, or on records!

Personally, given the level your T/T is currently at, I would aim a little lower, headshell-wise, and go for an Audio-Technica MG10 (sadly, it's a Japan-only order, as I don't know of anyone who sells them in the UK):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audio-Technica-MG10-Headshell-Cartridge-Needle-/140829188722?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item20ca12e272

These are superb, solid-magnesium headshells, engineered to the highest standards, and sonically, ideally suit the DL-103. They are also, IMO, better quality than the currently popular Sumikos.

However, at 10g it is a little light, in terms of mass, for a 103, so simply add one of these little chaps:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VPI-Stainless-Steel-3-0-gram-Headshell-Weight-/230837431357?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35befbac3d

...fit both to your Jelco, and trust me, you'll make your DL-103 sing very sweetly indeed! The VPI spacer/headshell weight will also allow more adjustment, in terms of obtaining optimal VTA.

The problem is that the DL-103 is quite a low-bodied cartridge, so the extra 'height' provided by the spacer is always welcome, particularly in the stock Technics arm, which doesn't have that much VTA adjustment, and consequently, with a DL-103, it's impossible to get the arm absolutely level with the playing surface of the record.

With the money you save (by not buying the Oyaide) you could instead get some high-quality cartridge leads, which give a surprising sonic improvement over the 'freebies' normally supplied with ordinary headshells.

My recommendation would be to try and win these NOS (new old stock) Audio Technica PCOCC headshell leads:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDIO-TECHNICA-AT6101-PCOCC-CARTRIDGE-HEADSHELL-LEADS-BRAND-NEW-SEALED-/190722571128?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item2c67f37b78

Those will work nicely with the MG-10, and are a real bargain. Then spend the rest of the change on music! :)

Looking forward to getting the (SUT) soon, and i shall report back when i do!

Cheers again marco

No problem, matey. The Jelco 750/MG-10 (with headshell weight and PCOCC leads)/DL-103 will be a killer combo! :trust:

Marco.

Rich On TC1

05-09-2012, 19:52

Marco,

Thanks for those links!

I have bought the Audio Technica MG-10 Headshell,and also put a bid on the Audio Technica PCOCC Headshell Leads!

I was not going to mess around after what you have said,and dived straight in:)

Regarding the VPI Headshell weight,i bought one of those recently,as i have read on here that the 103 likes alot of mass,so iam sorted on that score!

With the SUT coming soon,and the rest of the gear coming sometime next week, iam wondering if i should wait to next weekend to fit it all,as sadly i have now got to work away from home next week:doh:
And next weekend all my stuff should be waiting at the post office!
I so wish i could have it all now,but sadly iam going to have to be patient.:(

Ps ,When i bought the techie new from a guy on ebay,he gave me a (RC-101 Record Clamp ) its got on the box (Turntable Toys) ,and is completly new.
Hope this would be ok to use with the standard bearing,and herbies matt at the moment.

Thanks Again Marco,will keep you posted,but i would imagine it is going to be next weekend before i get a chance to play with it all!

Marco

06-09-2012, 12:22

Hi Rich,

Lol - I like your impulsiveness! I don't fart around either when I want something. Hope you win the cartridge leads! :)

When i bought the techie new from a guy on ebay,he gave me a (RC-101 Record Clamp ) its got on the box (Turntable Toys) ,and is completly new.

You mean like this?

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6579/recordclamp.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/recordclamp.png/)

Hope this would be ok to use with the standard bearing,and herbies matt at the moment.

Don't see why not, although I've never used one. Let me know what you think of it and how you get on next weekend when setting everything else up - any probs, just give me a shout. Have fun! :cool:

Btw, when you get your step-up transformer, it would be a good idea to invest in a decent pair of stereo interconnects, to use with it, if you haven't got some already, as the ones supplied with the unit are, quite frankly, shite.

The cables should be no longer than 0.5m, however, as the idea is to keep the SUT close to the inputs on your preamp/amplifier, but away from its transformer(s), to minimise on any chance of hum. Signal loss/distortion with longer lengths of cable, when dealing with such minute output voltages, is very real (and easily audible), so keep those cables short. Also ensure that you ground the SUT to an earthing point on your amp, with the wire supplied.

If you need some recommendations for suitable interconnect cables, let me know.

Marco.

Alex_UK

06-09-2012, 20:24

The RC-101 is a Bruil weight - built to the Bruil "plans" (http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/puck.html) - I use one on my 401.

Marco

06-09-2012, 20:51

Nice one, Alex. In that case, it'll be quality :)

Marco.

walpurgis

06-09-2012, 22:50

Hi Richard,

Welcome to AoS :)

As a big Techy, Croft and DL-103 fan, over many years, and having experimented with all sorts of SUTs, for the 103, the perfect solution (within your budget) is on eBay, right now:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denon-AU-300LC-Step-Up-Transformer-/300773010459?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item460777ec1b

Without beating around the bush, just buy it, as it'll fit your needs perfectly! :cool:

Marco.

Yes, good recommendation.

I sort of had an eye on this for myself, but don't really need it.

Go for it (if it's not gone), all Denon products tend to be great value at their price point.

Rich On TC1

07-09-2012, 19:58

Hi Marco /Alex

Marco, I have just got the SUT and I have taken on board what you have said about the leads on it.
They look very basic, but are soldered to the main unit, or I assume that they are, as they are non removable. So these can be replaced? What would you recommend?

Alex, Thanks for the link regarding the record weight. It would indeed seem a good weight for the technics, so it would look like I don't need to change it, as it is not too heavy for the platter.

Thanks chaps for all your advice so far on my techie upgrade mission!

Marco

08-09-2012, 11:11

Bugger, I didn't realise that they'd hard-wired the output leads. Normally, SUTs are supplied without cables, and you use your own. However, I spotted the leads supplied by Denon, on the picture from the sale on eBay, and thought that they were loose.

Not to worry, you could have other cables soldered-on in place of the stock ones, but that would devalue the unit, should you ever decide to sell it. Therefore I think, on balance, that I'd leave it alone and use the unit 'as is'. If you should decide that it'll be your SUT 'for life', then it can be tweaked later with better cables. Have you had a chance to listen to it yet?

Incidentally, have you factored into the equation a decent tonearm lead, to use with the Jelco? None is supplied with the arm. If you need some recommendations here, then let me know.

Also, as Shuggie has started making his bespoke collars again, for the Jelco, you should put an order in for one, as is being requested here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=360104#post360104

:cool:

Marco.

Rich On TC1

08-09-2012, 12:00

Hi Marco,

There's no problem there with the SUT cables being wired to the main unit,as this unit will only be used as a get me started unit for about a year.
Then i will look to getting something like an (Auditorium 23) or something.
Still not found a uk dealer for one of those yet,and a uk price.

My main concern is getting deck to a point where i don't want to take it any further,and as you say just buy Records!

Today at some point, iam going to put the Denon DL-103 on the standard technics arm,and standard headshell,along with the vpi 3g weight,and then plug into the denon SUT,and then see how she sings into the Croft 25pre.

The Head shell wires iam using,will be off my AT 440mla.

Iam still waiting for AT MG-10 headshell,so i just thought i would carry on without it.

When i get the jelco,what interconnect wires would you recommend?

Thanks Marco.

kininigin

08-09-2012, 12:18

Marco

08-09-2012, 21:59

Hi Rich,

There's no problem there with the SUT cables being wired to the main unit,as this unit will only be used as a get me started unit for about a year.

Cushty!

Then i will look to getting something like an (Auditorium 23) or something.
Still not found a uk dealer for one of those yet,and a uk price.

That's easy. James Almey, at The Sound Practice: http://www.thesoundpractice.com/ Tell him you know me. I bought my old A23s (both for the 103 and SPU) from James. Nice guy to deal with :)

I think the A23 (103) is around £500.

Today at some point, iam going to put the Denon DL-103 on the standard technics arm,and standard headshell,along with the vpi 3g weight,and then plug into the denon SUT,and then see how she sings into the Croft 25pre.

That'll be interesting. Let me know how you get on. The key with the stock Techy arm and 103 is in getting the arm level, in terms of VTA. I suspect that even with the VPI 'spacer', you'll still have to wind the VTA adjuster down all the way to minimum.

Remember that 2.6g VTF is where the sweet spot lies. Try anti-skate, set at 2.4/5g.

Also, did your Techy come with a little plastic overhang (alignment) tool, like this:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4602/technicsoverhangtool1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/technicsoverhangtool1.jpg/)

If so, use it, as it's very accurate! Furthermore, rather crucially, it's set for Stevenson, which is what suits the Techy best, as opposed to the Baerwald alignment of most cartridge protractors. This is how you use the tool:

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3671/technicsoverhangtool.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/technicsoverhangtool.jpg/)

Get the tip of the stylus bang-on parallel with the notch cut out of the base of the tool, underneath. Only gently 'nip-up' the headshell screws/bolts, from finger-tight. Do NOT over-tighten them, as that will make for a bright, 'etched' sound.

When i get the jelco,what interconnect wires would you recommend?

You mean tonearm cable... Before I answer that, what would be your maximum budget for one? I need to know that before recommending my favourite cable from Greece :)

Have a read here: http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17071

Marco.

Marco

08-09-2012, 22:46

Hi Darren,

Marco,you're probably the best to answer this,how would the dl-103 and sut richard has bought,compare to the SC35C or a re-tipped G800?

Different ball game altogether, as the biggest difference you'll hear, sonically, is how both an MM and MC cartridge treats music!

MC cartridges tend to sound more detailed and 'airier', and generally have greater high-frequency extention, so the top-end will be more open and usually have more 'sparkle'. The Denon is no exception to the rule, particularly when compared with vintage MM cartridges, such as your SC35C or a G800.

However, good MM cartridges (such as the two you've mentioned), can often sound 'ballsier', more upfront, and generally more full of vim and vigour, mainly due to their much higher output, but also rather more crude too, particularly in terms of treble refinement. The DL-103, however, is one of the 'ballsiest', most 'fun-factor' filled MC cartridges ever made, so in that area, the balance is evened out somewhat.

In summary, I'd say that the DL-103 (through a quality SUT and MM phono stage) sounds like a more detailed and refined SC35C or G800. They all share similar traits (all having that addictive 'fun-factor'), but being a low-output MC cartridge, the 103 has that bit more finesse, which lends it to optimising a wider variety of music.

Does that help? :cool:

Marco.

Rich On TC1

09-09-2012, 12:49

Hi richard and welcome to AoS :)

Is the denon the first MC you have used?

I would be interested in what you think of it compared to a MM if so.

Also if you are thinking of getting a jelco arm,then i would also get a arm coller from shuggie to go with it,as the one supplied with the jelco is a bit flimsy,compared to the quality one of shuggies and it could be awhile before he makes anymore!!

Marco,you're probably the best to answer this,how would the dl-103 and sut richard has bought,compare to the SC35C or a re-tipped G800?

Hi Kininigin,

I was using a AT 440mla mm on the technics before the denon DL 103,and that cart was certainly more brighter than the denon DL 103.
The Denon is certainly more refined than the AT 440mla,as the top end is nowhere near as bright as the AT.
The detail on the denon is super,but never becomes harsh and i have certainly been enjoying the cart.

Iam going to be looking at one of shuggies arm collers when i do get the jelco,and looking forward to getting the arm!

Rich On TC1

09-09-2012, 13:13

Hi All,

Well i fitted the denon 103 to my stock technics headshell,along with the VPI 3g headshell weight and set the VTF to 2.6g as marco has stated,and the bias to around 2.4.
At first i was not sure about the sound,as at first it sounded very disjointed.
The sound just did not seem to be gelling together well.
So for the first time i got out the RC-101 record clamp out.
And bang what a difference! everything started to snap into focus.
I could not believe that a clamp could do this,and i certainly will be using it all the time now,and i don't think i will be able to live without it
After a few hours of playing music,things are getting alot better!
The top end is crisp, but never crude or shrill.Vocals are very expressive,and the stereo image is also good.
The only slight problem iam finding,is that the bass is not as deep as i think it could be.
I have got the VTA set to as low as it would possibly go,and you are correct marco,that is where it has to be.
But i think the tale end of the arm is still slighty too high,so i think this is the root of the problem as far as the bass is concerned.
But apart from that,iam very happy with the 103 and SUT,and i know there is more to come from this cart as i upgrade the rest of the system.
So all in all, iam very happy.
Marco, thanks for those links and advice on setting up the cart.

Ps, I think the Achromat 1200 will solve the problem with the bass,as it would be alot thicker than the herbies mat.

Marco

09-09-2012, 13:32

Hi Rich,

Well i fitted the denon 103 to my stock technics headshell,along with the VPI 3g headshell weight and set the VTF to 2.6g as marco has stated,and the bias to around 2.4.

Brilliant! Also, try the bias set at 2.5, just in case it's a little better there.

At first i was not sure about the sound,as at first it sounded very disjointed.
The sound just did not seem to be gelling together well.
So for the first time i got out the RC-101 record clamp out.
And bang what a difference! everything started to snap into focus.
I could not believe that a clamp could do this,and i certainly will be using it all the time now,and i don't think i will be able to live without it

Wow, that certainly is a big difference you've obtained from using a clamp - normally the effect is quite subtle! But, yes, the best ones do reduce distortion by basically allowing the cartridge and stylus an easier time to resolve musical information.

After a few hours of playing music,things are getting alot better!
The top end is crisp, but never crude or shrill.Vocals are very expressive,and the stereo image is also good.
The only slight problem iam finding,is that the bass is not as deep as i think it could be.
I have got the VTA set to as low as it would possibly go,and you are correct marco,that is where it has to be.
But i think the tale end of the arm is still slighty too high,so i think this is the root of the problem as far as the bass is concerned.

I think you're absolutely right. I've been there, and short of putting two mats on top of each other on the platter, thus incurring another set of problems, or using a thick spacer between the cartridge and headshell, there is NO way of setting VTA spot on, getting the arm absolutely level, with the Techy arm and a DL-103, on an SL-1200/1210 with stock platter.

That's where the Jelco will come into its own, as the VTA adjustment will be far better, providing that you get a suitable arm-plate made. Have you thought about that, btw, including a suitable tonearm cable? I need a max budget from you for the last one.

Furthermore, the AT-MG10 headshell will make quite a difference, as the Technics headshell is a horribly flimsy and resonant thing, and really only fit for DJ cartridges. Better cartridge leads will also improve matters.

But apart from that,iam very happy with the 103 and SUT,and i know there is more to come from this cart as i upgrade the rest of the system.
So all in all, iam very happy.
Marco, thanks for those links and advice on setting up the cart.

No worries, dude, that's what we're here for.

Ps, I think the Achromat 1200 will solve the problem with the bass,as it would be alot thicker than the herbies mat.

The Achromat will blow the Herbies away, no worries! :eyebrows:

In the meantime, enjoy the music.

Marco.

kininigin

09-09-2012, 19:33

Hi Darren,

Different ball game altogether, as the biggest difference you'll hear, sonically, is how both an MM and MC cartridge treats music!

MC cartridges tend to sound more detailed and 'airier', and generally have greater high-frequency extention, so the top-end will be more open and usually have more 'sparkle'. The Denon is no exception to the rule, particularly when compared with vintage MM cartridges, such as your SC35C or a G800.

However, good MM cartridges (such as the two you've mentioned), can often sound 'ballsier', more upfront, and generally more full of vim and vigour, mainly due to their much higher output, but also rather more crude too, particularly in terms of treble refinement. The DL-103, however, is one of the 'ballsiest', most 'fun-factor' filled MC cartridges ever made, so in that area, the balance is evened out somewhat.

In summary, I'd say that the DL-103 (through a quality SUT and MM phono stage) sounds like a more detailed and refined SC35C or G800. They all share similar traits (all having that addictive 'fun-factor'), but being a low-output MC cartridge, the 103 has that bit more finesse, which lends it to optimising a wider variety of music.

Does that help? :cool:

Marco.

Yes Marco that helps.I have enough MM carts to mess about with now,so would like an idea on what level i should start at on the MC front,although this won't be till well into next year or later!

Actually the ATP-2 that i got recently,had abit more detail and air compared to the SC35C and in fact i haven't put the Shure back in yet as the extra detail and air is most welcome.It could do with a touch more at the bottom end though!

Ideally i would like to try a london decca,but £6-700 is a bit steep for me for a cart,then again a decent cart and sut will cost the same or more,so swings and round-a-bouts i guess.

Hi Kininigin,

I was using a AT 440mla mm on the technics before the denon DL 103,and that cart was certainly more brighter than the denon DL 103.
The Denon is certainly more refined than the AT 440mla,as the top end is nowhere near as bright as the AT.
The detail on the denon is super,but never becomes harsh and i have certainly been enjoying the cart.

Iam going to be looking at one of shuggies arm collers when i do get the jelco,and looking forward to getting the arm!

Glad you're enjoying it.I have never heard an MC before and it seems that everyone (or most) with a top system use them over a MM,so it seems the next logical step for me.I just need to suss out how far i won't to go!

Marco

10-09-2012, 08:33

Hi Darren,

I'm glad that helped :)

Actually the ATP-2 that i got recently,had abit more detail and air compared to the SC35C and in fact i haven't put the Shure back in yet as the extra detail and air is most welcome.It could do with a touch more at the bottom end though!

Sadly, in these situations, that's often the type of trade-off that occurs... However, I think that I can predict with reasonable accuracy that you'd love a DL-103, as it would suit your sonic preferences and musical tastes to a tee! :cool:

Marco.

Johan

11-09-2012, 07:16

I've read the whole story but ........
Can someone explain to me what a "step-up transformer'' is ? Thank you. :scratch:

Gr. Johan

The Grand Wazoo

11-09-2012, 07:24

Johan,

This is copied from another post I did some time ago:

....a step-up does the job of boosting the tiny signal from a moving coil cartridge up to a level that a moving magnet phono stage can deal with. It’s a passive component which uses some of the (relatively) abundant current present in the signal from an MC cartridge, converting it into enough voltage (which is not abundant) for the MM stage to work with. This is done by taking advantage of the strange phenomenon of transformers which boosts voltage in proportion to the ratio of the number of turns of wire on its input compared to those on its output.

A step-up is different to a head amp, which uses active (and, therefore, powered) circuitry.

Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages, and wax and wane in their popularity. I tend to agree with the view that a good step-up can have the ability to portray very fine detail and dynamics better than an active device………but, there are some very good active devices out there too.

Of course, if you have a high output moving coil or a moving magnet, none of this stuff need bother you at all & you can laugh at us poor casualties who need another link in an already long chain (along with all the cables & connectors that go with it).

With step-up transformers, there are more complications involved; not least is that of the number of turns your transformers have should give you enough, but not too much, extra gain to appropriately bridge the gap between the cartridge & phono-stage – too much and you could end up with excessive noise – too little and it’s too quiet. If it’s wrong in either direction, you risk having to change the volume every time you change to or from your phono input and all the problems that can give you (such as low flying speaker cones if you forget).

The next hiccup you face is that of cartridge loading. You see, every cartridge likes to work into a particular resistance (or load). Most MM stages are (or very close to) 47 K ohm resistance and most MM cartridges like to see this load – so that’s easy to arrange. Moving coils are fussy, cantankerous beasts and usually like something completely different from the load that the phono stage shows them. So, to optimise everything, you have to intervene by sticking a resistor of an appropriate value in the way. Cartridge manufacturers often give a recommendation, but requirements are liable to differ from system to system – experimentation often pays off.

Johan

11-09-2012, 08:33

Ok thank you for the information Chris.

Gr. Johan

kininigin

11-09-2012, 10:40

Hi Darren,

I'm glad that helped :)

Sadly, in these situations, that's often the type of trade-off that occurs... However, I think that I can predict with reasonable accuracy that you'd love a DL-103, as it would suit your sonic preferences and musical tastes to a tee! :cool:

Marco.

Yeah i think you're right regarding the DL-103,although i would really like to hear a decca and knowing me,i will have to scratch that itch sooner or later :lol:

Marco

12-09-2012, 08:43

kininigin

12-09-2012, 09:13

The Decca's a great cartridge, and very different from a 103, although I'm not sure it'd be quite your thing, considering what you mainly listen to... :)

Yo, Rich - any more news on how you're getting on with things? :cool:

Marco.

Oh really,from descriptions i've read,it sounded like something i would like.I'm still in 'experimental' mode concerning this hi fi lark and still trying to find out what i like,don't like.

I've put the SC35C back in my system now and while i did enjoy the ATP-2 in some areas,the SC35C is more balanced and just sounds more right.So as you say,the DL-103 sounds similiar with more detail and finese,then i think it will be the next step.

I'll wait to hear a decca first,then decide if i want to go for it!!

Yeah rich,how is it going and what are you musical preferences,if you don't mind me asking?

Rich On TC1

15-09-2012, 08:41

Hi Gents,

Sorry i have not been back in touch sooner,but i have been working away from home,and i only got back last night!

Kininigin,I agree with marco,and think you should give the Denon 103 a go,and you won't regret it one bit.
Everything marco described about the denon is spot on,and i could not agree more.
Iam looking for a little bit of bottom end from the cart,but i think this due to other factors of where my turntable is currently at,and i know there is more to come from this superb cart.
My musical tastes are really wide,and i can listen too really anything from Rock, to classical, RnB,to anything modern.

Well fresh from Japan, My AT MG-10 headshell arrived while i was away,and i did manage to win the headshell leads on ebay!
I must say from the looks point of view,the headshell looks lovely!

Marco the thing that i need to know is,will the screws from the 103 be to long?
Even with the VPI headshell weight? as holes don't go all the way through the headshell and are threaded.
Iam not going to have time to mount it the weekend,so i might wait in the week for the headshell leads to arrive,before i mount the cart on its new headshell.

I will report back when i fit the headshell in the week!

Thanks Again All.

Marco

15-09-2012, 12:12

Hi Richard,

Nice one - glad things are working out well for you so far! When you get the 103 partnered and set-up 'just right' (as you will have soon), it sounds fantastic :)

Iam looking for a little bit of bottom end from the cart,but i think this due to other factors of where my turntable is currently at,and i know there is more to come from this superb cart.

That will come when you fit the MG-10 and VPI weight, and particularly when you get the Jelco tonearm.

Did you use the little plastic overhang tool, I mentioned, incidentally? It's the best way to align any cartridge on the stock Techy arm, and will ensure that you'll obtain maximum performance from the DL-103.

i did manage to win the headshell leads on ebay!
I must say from the looks point of view,the headshell looks lovely!

It's a quality item, for sure, and IMO, one of the best headshells available on the market at any sort of sensible price. The secret is in its use of magnesium, which has superb vibration damping properties. Nice one on the leads! They will also make a noticeable improvement.

Marco the thing that i need to know is,will the screws from the 103 be to long?
Even with the VPI headshell weight? as holes don't go all the way through the headshell and are threaded.

You'll need to use screws that are long enough to go through the open lugs at the sides of the 103, and also the headshell weight, but which then are just long enough to screw into the pre-threaded holes on the underneath of the headshell (incidentally, you should find that the holes second from the front of the headshell, at the opposite end of the bayonet fitting, are spot on for alignment), in order that everything is held together securely, but not too tightly.

Basically, you don't want any gap between the underneath of the headshell and the top of the VPI weight, so if the screws you're using are too long to achieve that, you'll need to use other ones. These (non-magnetic) stainless steel allen bolts (from Origin Live) are without doubt the best, and much better than the flat-headed screws, often used:

http://www.hi-fi-accessories-1.com/cartridge-headshell-bolts.htm

From experience, I can tell you that the bigger ones shown are ideal for the job you need. They'll also add a little more mass to the headshell, compared with that offered by aluminium screws, which will benefit your 103. Being allen bolts, they'll also give a better grip, when tighening them up, than you get with flat-headed screws. Oh, and they'll improve the sound, too!

I will report back when i fit the headshell in the week!

Please do, as we're all interested to know how you get on. Btw, make sure that you run-in your new SUT, as it'll take approximately a week of continual use to fully come on song!

Marco.

Marco

17-09-2012, 22:32

Incidentally, Richard, if you fancy trying another 'DL-103 friendly' arm on your deck, which will be substantially cheaper than a Jelco SA-750, try landing this vintage Linn LV-V:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linn-Basik-LV-V-Tonearm-Output-Cable-SME-Fit-Headshell-/271058899010?_trksid=p4340.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D11%26meid%3D2118164481116857411%26pid%3D100 011%26prg%3D1016%26rk%3D5%26

I used one happily for years, with a DL-103 (on an Ariston RD11S turntable) and it sounded superb. It's a wonderful match, sonically, for the 103, and was most likely originally made by Jelco.

Once you've got it, send it to Johnny 7 (at Audio Origami) for a spruce-up and service, fit your MG-10 heashell to it and buy a suitable arm-plate, to mount it, and you'll be in heaven, for very little dosh! :trust:

Marco.

Rich On TC1

23-09-2012, 11:49

Hi marco,

Well i have finally got everything sorted now,and the 103 is fitted to the AT-MG-10,along with the new leads and VPI weight.

Well iam pleased to say the sound quality has been taken up a notch or two!
The bass has certainly got a touch more weight to it,and as far as things go up top,the treble has a tad less glare,and is nice crisp with out becoming ever bright.
And i think it is fair to say,that the stereo image has opened up a tad more too.

All in all a very worth while upgrade,and iam so glad i took your advise!

With regards to setup,the cartridge needed to use the first two holes on the headshell.
Your correct in saying that the AT headshell is light,as i needed the help of my shure force gauge to set VTF correctly.
I was tempted by your suggestion on the Linn LV-V tonearm,but i think iam going to hold out for the jelco 750d.
I did get a funk firm 1200 mat,but i have not fitted yet as i want to get the arm next and maybe a vantage audio bearing upgrade,then fit the mat.

As always marco thanks for your help,and i will keep you posted as soon as i do:cool:

Marco

23-09-2012, 23:06

Hi Rich,

Well i have finally got everything sorted now,and the 103 is fitted to the AT-MG-10,along with the new leads and VPI weight.

Well iam pleased to say the sound quality has been taken up a notch or two!
The bass has certainly got a touch more weight to it,and as far as things go up top,the treble has a tad less glare,and is nice crisp with out becoming ever bright.
And i think it is fair to say,that the stereo image has opened up a tad more too.

All in all a very worth while upgrade,and iam so glad i took your advise!

Nice one - I'm glad that the mods are going to plan so far! The headshell/lead wires upgrade is providing exactly the sonic benefits that it should. Yes, you're right about the first two holes on your MG-10. I was thinking about the longer AT LT-12 headshell that I've got.

Did you order the allen bolts I recommended? Trust me, if you're just using ordinary screws, they'll be worse! ;)

I was tempted by your suggestion on the Linn LV-V tonearm,but i think iam going to hold out for the jelco 750d.
I did get a funk firm 1200 mat,but i have not fitted yet as i want to get the arm next and maybe a vantage audio bearing upgrade,then fit the mat.

Sure, no worries. The Jelco will make a BIG difference, trust me, as will the Achromat. The bearing upgrade will bring everything together and give the Techy a much more 'grown up' and sophisticated sound.

As always marco thanks for your help,and i will keep you posted as soon as i do

No worries. Any chance of some pics, showing your T/T, now that the MG-10 is in place, and maybe some shots of your Denon SUT and Croft? :cool:

Marco.

Rich On TC1

30-09-2012, 18:19

Marco

Iam going to post some pictures of my 1210, and my crofts, and rega kit soon.
Very happy with my setup so far! :cool:

Marco

30-09-2012, 18:33

Nice one - look forward to it. Did you get the allen bolts? :)

Marco.

Rich On TC1

30-09-2012, 19:09

Marco,

Yes I did indeed get the origin live mounting kit, so everything is now good. :)

Marco

30-09-2012, 19:27

Coolio - all is good! Looking forward to seeing the pics, dude :cool:

Marco.

Rich On TC1

30-09-2012, 19:41

Marco,

There is a linn lv-v on ebay at the moment. What do think would be a sensible price for this arm? Have still not ruled it out, if I could get it for sensible price.
Let me know what you think.

Marco

30-09-2012, 20:14

Linky please, unless it's the same one I showed you before? :)

Marco.

Marco

30-09-2012, 20:32

Just had a quick look... If it's this one, then go right on ahead, as it's a lovely clean example, and the original tonearm cable (which usually works best with Linn arms) has been fitted with some nice plugs:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LINN-BASIK-LV-V-TONEARM-WITH-LEAD-AND-HEADSHELL-/261100113556?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ccac78e94

Trust me, it's a vastly underrated arm (as in those days all the Linnies were going ape over Ittoks, and much like the Rega R200 was underrated too, when the Rega fanboys were jerking off over the inferior RB250). The LV V was originally made in Japan for Linn, by Jelco (in my view it's as good as an SA750), and it will positively *sing* with a DL-103! :exactly:

Then grab a Linn-mounting armboard, from these chaps, and you'll be laughing: http://www.soundsupports.com/page16.htm

It's worth the asking price of £150, as it seems in minty condition. A Jelco SA-750 will cost you another £200 (excluding a tonearm cable) and will unlikely be any better, sonically.

Marco.

Rich On TC1

09-10-2012, 18:50

Hi Marco,
Sorry it's been a little while since i last posted,but there has been some developments!
Ever since your last post i have been on the look out on ebay for a Linn LV-V.
The arm you showed me the link to at a £150,was one that i was keeping an eye on.
Then along came another lvv,so i started to bid.
The arm looked mint, but the owner had broken the cable off by accident,so it needed looking into.
Anyway i was winning up until the very last few seconds of the auction,and i was outbid of around a mere 50p! sell price was around £62!
Anyway another arm came up today.
The price was £115 Plus postage of around £5.00.
I made the chap an offer of around £80 including postage.
He wanted £95 plus the postage cost.
I made him an offer of £95 including postage,and he agreed!
Anyway, the arm is by far the best example on ebay i have seen,and is described as completly unmarked.
And looking at the photos, this seems to be very true.
It also comes complete with original cable,and bearings are said to be in good condition,so all in all a good deal i think.

Will post some pics of the arm when i get it,and also i have not forgotten to post some pics of my system,when everything is sorted.

Please marco let me know what you think!:cool:

Marco

09-10-2012, 19:56

Hi Rich,

Nice one - I think you've done very well! :)

Looking forward to seeing some pics of the beastie, and those of your T/T and system in general. Honestly, for all DL-103 owners out there on a budget, grab a nice Linn Basik LV V or Rega R200 on eBay, fit it to a quality T/T, and you'll be in SPPV and vinyl heaven!! :trust:

Marco.

P.S Don't forget to order a suitable armboard from Sound Supports, where I linked to earlier.

Rich On TC1

25-10-2012, 19:41

Hi all,

Marco, well i got my Linn LV V tonearm from ebay in the post,and on opening the box,the arm really stood out!
It was like in completly new condition,and everything looked really good!

So i then decided,i should send the arm to J7 at audio origami,for a check over before i fitted it to my deck.

A day or so later i get an email from J7 saying that the horizontal bearing is the tightest he has ever seen!,and is completely unplayable on a record:doh:

I then decided that i should get back intouch with the seller on ebay.
The seller was (The HIFI Hangar),and steve the shop owner was shocked that this has happened.
we both agreed that the arm must have taken a knock somewhere along the way,and contact was made from steve to J7 to confirm this.

I must give full credit to steve & sarah at (The HIFI Hangar) ,and they gave me a full refund.

I can't recommend them enough,and there customer service was first class,and i would have no problems buying from them again.

So back to the drawing board again!

It was easy in the end,so i bite the bullet,and bought myself a jelco 750D from MCRU!:cool:
I have also bought a £30 tonearm cable from them to get me started,as i did not have alot of cash left!
An armboard was purchased from sound supports,to get everything sorted!

I have only just got the arm this week,and cable,so i hope to fit it all this saturday.

Like always,i will let you know when i do,and how i get on with it!

Regards

Richard.

Marco

29-10-2012, 12:34

Hi Rich,

Sorry to hear about the LV V - I guess that these things happen. Chances are anyway that the Jelco will be better :)

Enjoy, and when you get a chance, let's see some pics of the whole shebang! :cool:

Marco.

Marco

13-11-2012, 17:23

Are we getting any nearer to seeing those pics, dude? ;)

We'd like to see what it all looks like! :)

Marco.

Rich On TC1

13-11-2012, 20:59

Hi Marco,

Sorry it's been a long time,but i only got my jelco collar from shuggie at the end of last week,and saturday i got the armboard from ebay.
So i made sure that sunday was like christmas day and i fitted it all!
well then, here are just a few pics of the tonearm and collar etc.
I do hope soon to take a few more pictures of my complete system along with the crofts.
7660

7661

As for sound,these upgrades have made a massive difference to the music! it's as if there has been a layer of cotton wool removed from the speakers,and there just seems to be more space around the instruments,bass has certainly taken on a more deeper and dynamic character,it just seems to have more boogie factor now.
Iam so happy with the results,that these along with Denon DL-103 ,and the AT MG-10 headshell have made to my system,that i could not be happier with it.

I tryed to get in contact with Richard at Vantage Audio,but i have had no such luck,and that is a real shame,so it looks like in the new year iam going to be looking at a Mike New Bearing upgrade,and i hope that will kick it on even further down the sound quality department,as iam sure it will very much so.

Thanks Again Marco