View Full Version : Calling all SL-1200/1210 owners!
muffinman
18-09-2008, 17:05
i feel a bit seen off.
i wish i'd started a 'gareths' teccie trek' thread
Johns 3 piece sweet counterweight has arrived along with the sumiko headshell.
fitted the sumiko and had a few spins. the variable azimuth was an instant success. as it comes with better leads we're already on to a winner. its battleship-esque also which goes well with the teccie.
decided it was time to apply the brass beauty. i had trouble finding a configuration in which i could get the tracking force right. found a headshell weight, slapped it on and settled down for a quick listen.
the extra mass on the headshell coupled with the C/W have really brought the deck springing into life.
listened to the 45 version of 'in rainbows' and it was really punching out of the speakers on '15 step' then really delicate on the vocals and orchestra of 'nude' - Thumbs up (x2) John.
still waiting on a decent mat and KAB have informed me that the ps1200s are in production so i reckon it could be 3 weeks before that puppy arrives.
at least i'll settle in to the new set up and the 'improvement' should be instantly noticeable
quick round up then: azimuth adjustable headshell - you've got to really
Johns C/W - allows the headshell and arm to do their 'ting' and is therefore the shiz
:gig:
thrunobulaxx
23-09-2008, 06:40
i feel a bit seen off.
i wish i'd started a 'gareths' teccie trek' thread
Johns 3 piece sweet counterweight has arrived along with the sumiko headshell.
fitted the sumiko and had a few spins. the variable azimuth was an instant success. as it comes with better leads we're already on to a winner. its battleship-esque also which goes well with the teccie.
decided it was time to apply the brass beauty. i had trouble finding a configuration in which i could get the tracking force right. found a headshell weight, slapped it on and settled down for a quick listen.
the extra mass on the headshell coupled with the C/W have really brought the deck springing into life.
listened to the 45 version of 'in rainbows' and it was really punching out of the speakers on '15 step' then really delicate on the vocals and orchestra of 'nude' - Thumbs up (x2) John.
still waiting on a decent mat and KAB have informed me that the ps1200s are in production so i reckon it could be 3 weeks before that puppy arrives.
at least i'll settle in to the new set up and the 'improvement' should be instantly noticeable
quick round up then: azimuth adjustable headshell - you've got to really
Johns C/W - allows the headshell and arm to do their 'ting' and is therefore the shiz
:gig:
Its "special" brass gareth, i freeze it for two days then blast it with gamma rays in my specially adapted micro wave cooker.:eyebrows:
Ali Tait
23-09-2008, 07:53
Is that so you can change the record in the dark? :)
Its "special" brass gareth, i freeze it for two days then blast it with gamma rays in my specially adapted micro wave cooker.
Yes, Captain (Kirk), and if I put some in the engines she'll give you warp factor 4... ;)
Marco.
muffinman
24-09-2008, 14:03
the isoplatmat hath arrived.
it's early days but atm i think you can add me to the 'meh' list.
sure enough it gets rid of the ding(or dong) of the platter, but my heavy teccie mat was acheiving that.
i have tried it along with the rubber and have found that it sounds better if the iso is on top. the other way round was significantly 'different :doh:'.however, this does not allow enough spindle clearance for clamping if required.
i'm not entirely sure what (if any) improvement it has made, but as i said, early days.
ps1200 is still a while away so i'll continue to listen with it in situ and in a few weeks i'll find out if i can 'live without it' . i stand to be corrected but i'm guessing i'll be able to.
has anyone bought an o/l mat yet?
muffinman
08-10-2008, 14:24
i've done a bit of chopping and changing with the mat arrangement .i've found that the isoplatmat works well with 3 cork pads on the platter and the michell clamp holding the disc secure. it all sounds rather better than the last configuration of iso and tecmat. can't help feeling that the isomat against my vinyl isn't doing it any favours though. sds sell a neoprene cover. i wonder if this has been 'listened to' or if it's just a response to concerns. i don't really want to shell out for yet another mat as i'm thinking of getting a stan-dac.
No news on the other upgrades as yet (ordered nearly a month ago:()
Peter Stockwell
08-10-2008, 14:36
No news on the other upgrades as yet (ordered nearly a month ago:()
KAB is a one man show, give him a call. It took a while to get my PS1200, but it's worth the wait.
muffinman
08-10-2008, 15:02
ta,
i'll just sit back and wait for a letter from HMcustoms then:doh:
might aswell get on with tx-ing my cds to my other new toy
I doubt there's much of a difference no matter what top mat you use. Just use whatever is best for your records.
Hi Dave,
Long time no hear! Good to see you here, so welcome to the forum :)
Marco.
Hi Dave,
Long time no hear! Good to see you here, so welcome to the forum :)
Marco.
Thanks Marco, it's a great forum and I've been busy reading the backlog of posts the last several days. I've found a lot of great posts and interesting tidbits in every thread.
Hi Dave,
Thanks. We do our best to try to keep things interesting. We've still got a long way to go though before we get to the standard of Audiocircle :)
How is the place these days? I haven't been there in ages.
Please feel free to impart your knowledge on all subjects, especially on the 1210 as I know you have fairly extensive experience in that area.
Marco.
Hi Dave,
Thanks. We do our best to try to keep things interesting. We've still got a long way to go though before we get to the standard of Audiocircle :)
How is the place these days? I haven't been there in ages.
Please feel free to impart your knowledge on all subjects, especially on the 1210 as I know you have fairly extensive experience in that area.
Marco.
Audio Circle just has more members, this place will get there in time. I really haven't been reading the forums for the past 8 months but it seems the number of guys using the Technics has exploded in that time. I can't wait to see yours in a slate plinth.
--Dave
muffinman
04-11-2008, 20:23
My ps1200 and Cardas arm have arrived. Once the govt. had taken their slice it came in at £340. i'm going to take a few snaps and send them to J7 to see how he feels about putting an ext lead on and what configuration it will take.If i manage to shift the old arm then i may keep the all in final cost below £400. I'm going on holiday on friday :cool::cool:so it's just going to sit there in its box:doh:. i'm a little reticent because my standac has recently been blowing me away and thats about to be upgraded.
watch this space for the review.
Nice one, mate :)
When you get things together and assess them properly start a thread 'Mufty's KAB madness', or whatever, and tell us all about it, with photos.
Have a nice holiday!
Marco.
Peter Stockwell
07-11-2008, 08:25
Mine's in it's box, stashed uder the bed. The decorators are finally at work! Taking the arm off, since I'd not done it before, was something I wanted to leave until I had a while day with nothing else to do.
So the arm project is still on hold, might even have to wait until 2009!
I was lucky with my PS1200/Cardas rewire buy, I got the exchange when the dollar was worth about 0.60€.
cheers
Hi Peter,
Good to see you back! I thought you'd deserted us ;)
I guess that your hi-fi activities are somewhat curtailed at the moment...
Marco.
Dave Cawley
07-11-2008, 09:34
Hi guys
This might be a subtle opportunity to plug my SL-1200 page here www.SL-1200-MK2.com I can give sound reasons for every modification and answer most questions with a smile!
I'll start a thread on it next week.
Regards
Dave
Peter Stockwell
07-11-2008, 10:35
Hi Peter,
Good to see you back! I thought you'd deserted us ;)
I guess that your hi-fi activities are somewhat curtailed at the moment...
Marco.
No, I've just been busy, I also found a new diversion for quiet moments when I can't listen to music. If you're interested at all in boats, I'll point to it. The system was completely dismantled sunday last, and while I still have the TV system set up, and I can connect the mac mini, directly to the Beresford and then to the TV system. It's just not musically involving in comparison, not even close.
I haven't deserted, I just might be quiet for a while.
Hi folks,
been lurking here for a while, just absorbing all of your experiences with the 1200/1210. I'm also the proud owner of a 1210mkII (15 year old), and after reading the glowing opinions here (and there and everywhere...) of the KABed 1200, i've decided to get my own. After a short chat with Kevin (great guy!) via email, a KABed 1200 should be on its way to me in a couple of weeks.
Marco, thanks for your many opinions on the 'table. I noticed that you've gotten a new Jelco arm. Are you going to post a review, and why you've changed? is the Jelco a rega derivative, and so use the rega armboard, otherwise how are you mounting the jelco arm on?
I'm using the 103 currently, and with the stock technics arm and headshell, there's not quite enough mass to match the compliance. I've resorted to sticking a small coin on the headshell. Anything heavier, and the stock counterweight won't be able to balance. Also, I'm a bit concerned about putting too much weight on one spot, as opposed to spreading the weight along the arm. I'll try and get a picture of the coin-modded 103 here when I get home. :)
For the brass counterweight that I've heard so much about, It's a screw on right? What is the mass of the counterweight? I recall that it's in 3 pieces, so how much weight does it bring to the tonearm?
one other thing, about the mats. I've read quite a bit here also about the various mats and experiences using them. I'm currently using the 5mm funk achromat, and because it's about the same thickness as the stock rubber mat, i didn't make any compensation to the arm height. But if you stack the herbie (3mm? 5mm?) with the funk mat (5mm), it goes up quite a bit, and do you adjust the arm height accordingly to keep the arm parallel? I'm still quite a novice at the VTA adjustments.
Quite a bit to read for a first post, but I'm quite excited about my incoming, and just want to keep this excellent thread going for a great 'table.
:gig:
Hi Kelvin,
Marco, thanks for your many opinions on the 'table. I noticed that you've gotten a new Jelco arm. Are you going to post a review, and why you've changed? is the Jelco a rega derivative, and so use the rega armboard, otherwise how are you mounting the jelco arm on?
I'll be doing a full review shortly; in fact I've already started the introduction. The Jelco uses a Linn-type fixing which with a suitable mounting plate fits on the 1210 no problem.
Why have I changed?
Well, it was always my intention to eventually fit a 'hi-end' arm on the 1210 once I had used and lived with the modified Technics arm for a period of time and analysed what it did. I prefer S-shaped detachable headshell arms because of the types of cartridges I like and those I intend to buy in due course (Ortofon SPU, EMT XSD-15, etc) so I had looked at suitable arms from Ortofon, Audio technica and EMT, but they were all overpriced in my opinion - I felt that you are paying for the name more than anything else, which is not where I'm at with hi-fi these days as I now seek maximum sound-per-pound value with any equipment I introduce into my system.
So when I seen the Jelco arm pictured in this month's HFW magazine with Sound Hi-fi listed as stockists I said to myself "That's the one!" and then arranged an audition - safe to say that the Jelco met all my expectations! Also, I was fed up with people associating the Technics arm as a 'cheap OEM unit'. I knew this wasn't the case and that when damped and rewired with Cardas cable it offered superb performance but there was always that niggling doubt there that it was somehow holding the deck back. So now I have a top-notch T/T and an arm to match. When I get the SPU or EMT cartridge then people can stop slagging off the DL-103, as it'll be 'hi-end' all the way! :ner:
I'm only joking though as I will always use 103s because I love their sound. My ideal cartridge line-up would be three 103s (an 'R', Pro, and ZU-modified), an Ortofon SPU and an EMT XSD-15. I'd also like a classic Shure MM, and have my eye on an M75ED.
I'm using the 103 currently, and with the stock technics arm and headshell, there's not quite enough mass to match the compliance. I've resorted to sticking a small coin on the headshell. Anything heavier, and the stock counterweight won't be able to balance. Also, I'm a bit concerned about putting too much weight on one spot, as opposed to spreading the weight along the arm. I'll try and get a picture of the coin-modded 103 here when I get home.
You need a high mass headshell such as the Audio Technica LH-18 that I use. Coins and such like add unwanted resonance to the headshell which transmits down the armtube and adversely affects sound quality. Using coins to add extra mass is a stop gap method only and should not be seen as a permanent solution.
The 103, in my experience, likes a high-mass headshell on a fairly 'lossy' arm. You don't really need a genuinely high-mass arm, as long as the headshell used has plenty of weight and is of rigid construction. The ideal effective tonearm mass for a 103 is something in the region of 12-15g, which is why the standard Technics arm, and the likes of the Jelco are spot on. The 18g weight of the AT headshell will add to the arm's overall effective mass anyway, so you don't need the armtube itself any heavier. Counterweight balances don't contribute to the overall effective mass of tonearms as they are decoupled from the armtube.
For the brass counterweight that I've heard so much about, It's a screw on right? What is the mass of the counterweight? I recall that it's in 3 pieces, so how much weight does it bring to the tonearm?
The brass counterweight balance I use simply slots on to the arm and is held in place with two small grub screws. Mine is in two pieces but you can also get John (Thrunobulaxx) to make them in three pieces and to any weight you want.
one other thing, about the mats. I've read quite a bit here also about the various mats and experiences using them. I'm currently using the 5mm funk achromat, and because it's about the same thickness as the stock rubber mat, i didn't make any compensation to the arm height. But if you stack the herbie (3mm? 5mm?) with the funk mat (5mm), it goes up quite a bit, and do you adjust the arm height accordingly to keep the arm parallel? I'm still quite a novice at the VTA adjustments.
Yes you would indeed. You'll find though that it's almost impossible to get VTA spot-on with a 103 on the Technics arm unless you use a combination of mats to get the arm parallel, simply because the 103 is quite a shallow-bodied cartridge (compared to something like a Stanton 500 which the arm was designed to work with) and there isn't sufficient VTA adjustment built into the arm to get it right. Even when the VTA adjuster is wound down to minimum the back of the arm will still be too high. This is one of the reasons why I got the Jelco, and what made me completely change my mat configuration, more of which will be mentioned in the review.
Quite a bit to read for a first post, but I'm quite excited about my incoming, and just want to keep this excellent thread going for a great 'table.
No problem. I know exactly how you feel as I felt the same way when I was waiting on my deck arriving from KAB. It's probably the best piece of hi-fi gear I've ever bought :)
Marco.
I'll be doing a full review shortly; in fact I've already started the introduction. The Jelco uses a Linn-type fixing which with a suitable mounting plate fits on the 1210 no problem.
Great! Looking forward to this review. Hope it materialises before the 1210 one ... :lol: if the jelco arm is really an improvement even over the tricked out stock tonearm, it would be a cool upgrade to look forward to.
I prefer S-shaped detachable headshell arms because of the types of cartridges I like and those I intend to buy in due course (Ortofon SPU, EMT XSD-15, etc) so I had looked at suitable arms from Ortofon, Audio technica and EMT, but they were all overpriced in my opinion - I felt that you are paying for the name more than anything else, which is not where I'm at with hi-fi these days as I now seek maximum sound-per-pound value with any equipment I introduce into my system.
hmm .. on browsing the soundhifi site, the jelco tonearm featured is neither S-shaped nor have a detachable headshell (from what I can see from the picture anyway) .... but it's great to hear that the Jelco's met all of your expectations, otherwise your stock KAB tweaked arm won't be on the way out ...
I'm only joking though as I will always use 103s because I love their sound. My ideal cartridge line-up would be three 103s (an 'R', Pro, and ZU-modified), an Ortofon SPU and an EMT XSD-15. I'd also like a classic Shure MM, and have my eye on an M75ED.
agreed. I'm currently using a 103 and the sound is really something else. I've picked up a 103R and a AT33PTG during a recent trip to Tokyo, and am really looking forward to trying each one of them out. But every time I think of making the effort to switch, two things hold me back: 1) the thought of realigning a new cart and 2) the current sweetness of the 103, which i know still hasn't reached its full potential as the arm doesn't quite have enough effective mass to hit the resonance sweet spot, and I would like to hear the incoming KAB 1200 take the cart to another level before considering the switch. so the other two carts would just have to wait ...
You need a high mass headshell such as the Audio Technica LH-18 that I use. Coins and such like add unwanted resonance to the headshell which transmits down the armtube and adversely affects sound quality. Using coins to add extra mass is a stop gap method only and should not be seen as a permanent solution.
That's good to know. I'll be making another trip down to tokyo in February, and will definitely be hunting down a couple of LH-18s to pair with my carts. Does the LH-18 go well with the AT33PTG, since it's still relatively low compliance? as for the coin, I'm perfectly aware that it's a stop gap measure, until I can manage to get a better headshell for it. It's currently stuck on with a bit of blu-tac, so hopefully that helps to dampen the unwanted resonance a bit. (see picture for coin tweak :confused:)
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll258/konglip/IMG_0524.jpg
The 103, in my experience, likes a high-mass headshell on a fairly 'lossy' arm. You don't really need a genuinely high-mass arm, as long as the headshell used has plenty of weight and is of rigid construction. The ideal effective tonearm mass for a 103 is something in the region of 12-15g, which is why the standard Technics arm, and the likes of the Jelco are spot on. The 18g weight of the AT headshell will add to the arm's overall effective mass anyway, so you don't need the armtube itself any heavier. Counterweight balances don't contribute to the overall effective mass of tonearms as they are decoupled from the armtube.
ahh .. i learn something new, as i always thought that the counterweight adds to the effective arm mass somehow. so the key is really for a heavier headshell.
The brass counterweight balance I use simply slots on to the arm and is held in place with two small grub screws. Mine is in two pieces but you can also get John (Thrunobulaxx) to make them in three pieces and to any weight you want.
No worries. I'll go with your 'tried and tested' duo to begin with, until I'm a bit more sure of exactly how much weight I want, before talking to John for a custom-ed one.
You'll find though that it's almost impossible to get VTA spot-on with a 103 on the Technics arm unless you use a combination of mats to get the arm parallel, simply because the 103 is quite a shallow-bodied cartridge (compared to something like a Stanton 500 which the arm was designed to work with) and there isn't sufficient VTA adjustment built into the arm to get it right. Even when the VTA adjuster is wound down to minimum the back of the arm will still be too high. This is one of the reasons why I got the Jelco, and what made me completely change my mat configuration, more of which will be mentioned in the review.
That's right. I recall that based on the cart height, the arm height had to be set at 0, which meant any lowering of the back of the arm would be impossible. seems like even an easily adjustable VTA has its limitations too! I see now the use of the mats as VTA tools ...
No problem. I know exactly how you feel as I felt the same way when I was waiting on my deck arriving from KAB. It's probably the best piece of hi-fi gear I've ever bought :)
I'm treating it as a christmas present to myself, so as long as it gets in by then, I'm a happy camper. but with the festive season coming up, I'm just worried that kevin will have his hands full with many 'tables going around as gifts!
thanks again for all the advice. I must say this is a great forum, very cosy and quite unlike some of the others that I've visited. Here's a piccie of my humble setup ... everything's in place, just waiting for the 'table to arrive.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll258/konglip/IMG_0525.jpg
Filterlab
28-11-2008, 12:07
That's a lovely set up Bong. May I ask what speaker stands you're using?
Hi Kelvin,
Great pics and great set-up! :)
I'll get to the rest of your post later as I have to pop out now for a bit, but just to clear this up:
hmm .. on browsing the soundhifi site, the jelco tonearm featured is neither S-shaped nor have a detachable headshell (from what I can see from the picture anyway) ....
It's the SA-750D shown below, which as you will see is most certainly S-shaped with a detachable headshell ;)
http://www.soundhifi.com/jelco.html
Speak more later!
Marco.
That's a lovely set up Bong. May I ask what speaker stands you're using?
Thanks Rob! The speaker stands, as well as the hifi rack are both from Guizu or Nobility (Guizu means nobles or nobility in Chinese). You can take a look at their AV furniture here (http://www.guizu.com.cn/production/catshow.htm?pid=1)
kelvin.
Hi Kelvin,
Great pics and great set-up! :)
Thanks. It's a bedroom setup, so a bit of thought had to go into the WAF (wife acceptance factor) of the setup. Otherwise, that spot will remain an empty spot. :lol:
It's the SA-750D shown below, which as you will see is most certainly S-shaped with a detachable headshell ;)
http://www.soundhifi.com/jelco.html
My mistake. I saw the earliest picture on the 1200mods page that said 'The Jelco tonearm with xxx cart' and assumed that that was the 750D. I stand corrected and wiser.
kelvin.
Filterlab
28-11-2008, 12:26
Cheers Kelvin, it looks really lovely. My stands and racks are all matt black and sometimes I just think how nice wood stands look. How are they acoustically speaking? Any major or minor influence on the sound?
Cheers Kelvin, it looks really lovely. My stands and racks are all matt black and sometimes I just think how nice wood stands look. How are they acoustically speaking? Any major or minor influence on the sound?
I agree about the wood stands. I was sold the moment I saw them, and after switching over to them, I can only say that they complement the equipment placed on them, both aesthetically and acoustically. I find that there's significant improvement to the sound, specifically to give a wider stage and more distinct separation. However, I was previously using a generic Ikea table for my setup so any change would have been an improvement. :lol:
Filterlab
28-11-2008, 12:48
Hehehehe, yes indeed. It never fails to amaze me how much difference proper stands make. I've yet to find speaker stands that acoustically improve on mine, saying that they are the dedicated stands for my speakers so chances are slimmer than average. :)
Hehehehe, yes indeed. It never fails to amaze me how much difference proper stands make. I've yet to find speaker stands that acoustically improve on mine, saying that they are the dedicated stands for my speakers so chances are slimmer than average. :)
agreed. but the quest for good stands could be tough ... as it's a lot less obvious compared to hifi gear, as to what's snake oil and what's not... and it's tough to lug your speakers/gear around to audition stands. so once I find any that give an improvement, they're for keeps! ;)
Filterlab
28-11-2008, 13:07
Good move mate. I think the average audiophile has an inability to completely relax on any given system for any period of time; there's always that question in the back of the mind "what if...?" which rears its ugly head every time music is playing. However if one stops being an audiophile for a moment and simply enjoys the wonderfully high quality music then the question diminishes - it's hard I know, but it's worth it. :)
You're right about stands though, it is hard to audition them, not only due to the bulk but also the fiddling and altering that goes hand in hand with that type of 'component'. It took about three weeks of alteration until I got my speakers set up just right, well I thought they were right anyway until two heavy but rather attractive concrete blocks presented themselves to me. I popped them under my speaker stands (with a 12x12 slate sheet betwixt block and spikes) and they made a heck of a difference. It made me think how other materials would differ the presentation, but that of course takes me back to the start of this post. ;)
Good move mate. I think the average audiophile has an inability to completely relax on any given system for any period of time; there's always that question in the back of the mind "what if...?" which rears its ugly head every time music is playing. However if one stops being an audiophile for a moment and simply enjoys the wonderfully high quality music then the question diminishes - it's hard I know, but it's worth it. :) well said. even in asia, where i'm from, there are many audiophiles who spend way too much time trying to extract the perfect sound through their equipment - endless upgrades and tweaks. i often wonder how they manage to find time to listen to any music in the midst of their busy upgrading schedule. ;)
You're right about stands though, it is hard to audition them, not only due to the bulk but also the fiddling and altering that goes hand in hand with that type of 'component'. It took about three weeks of alteration until I got my speakers set up just right, well I thought they were right anyway until two heavy but rather attractive concrete blocks presented themselves to me. I popped them under my speaker stands (with a 12x12 slate sheet betwixt block and spikes) and they made a heck of a difference. It made me think how other materials would differ the presentation, but that of course takes me back to the start of this post. ;)
haha, true true. it makes for good tweaking (spikes? blu-tac? concrete/granite/mystical substance?), but it makes a really tough auditioning subject. good that you found what works for you .. not necessarily what works best, as that'll probably take another 2908172 hrs of your life to tweak. :lol:
Filterlab
28-11-2008, 14:17
...that'll probably take another 2908172 hrs of your life to tweak. :lol:
You know it mate! Although I don't mind too much as I'll have a big grin on my face whilst doing it. :)
You know it mate! Although I don't mind too much as I'll have a big grin on my face whilst doing it. :)
i'm not that optimistic with my tweaking skills .. i'm lucky i don't break the cantilever sometimes while i'm trying to align the cart. but it does take quite a bit of verbal abuse from me though ... :eyebrows:
stupinder
09-12-2008, 18:40
Hi guys
This might be a subtle opportunity to plug my SL-1200 page here www.SL-1200-MK2.com I can give sound reasons for every modification and answer most questions with a smile!
I'll start a thread on it next week.
Regards
Dave
really good mods by the look of it - i may well order a pair of the feet 1 in the next few weeks
Peter Stockwell
17-01-2009, 17:56
The SL1200/SL1210 boom in the UK get's a mention in this months stereophile and Dave Cawley of Sound Hifi get's specifically named.
Dave Cawley
17-01-2009, 17:59
Me? What me???? I only seem to have January, is there a later one?
Thanks
Dave
really good mods by the look of it - i may well order a pair of the feet 1 in the next few weeks
I'd use four of them personally! ;) :lol:
Peter Stockwell
17-01-2009, 18:39
Me? What me???? I only seem to have January, is there a later one?
Thanks
Dave
Oops, I got carried away, only Sound Hifi gets mentioned
Dave Cawley
17-01-2009, 18:49
Oh well..... What page? And is it january?
Thanks
Dave (not that famous after all)
Peter Stockwell
17-01-2009, 18:57
Oh well..... What page? And is it january?
Thanks
Dave (not that famous after all)
Yes it's january, it's in Paul Messengers round up of a hifi show (Heathrow?)
The SL1200/SL1210 boom in the UK get's a mention in this months stereophile and Dave Cawley of Sound Hifi get's specifically named.
As I said, the Techy invasion has begun, it seems even in America... We will not stop until all 'elastic-banders' have been wiped out :eyebrows:
Marco.
Dave Cawley
17-01-2009, 23:10
I have achieved fame in other areas, and did desire it in Hi Fi, but never thought it would come from the SL-1200. Hi Fi World, now the big World!
Thanks guys
Dave
Yeppers, think you have made it into the wider world Dave.
I may even know someone who has just been pestering you for more info :)
By way of intro, I last year purchased an SL 1200 on the strength of many raves and eventually gave it an extensive audition of some several weeks, perhaps even 6, in my system.
I am a Denon cartridge fan and absolutely besotted with the DL-301 II I am using at present.
I also own and like very much the DL-103, it was my first MC and I purchased with it (as an inexpensive entry point) the Denon AU300LC SUT.
Being aware of Werners positive review of the SL 1200 on tnt, where he fitted the 103 to this deck and approved of it; that cartridge was the one I fitted to the Technics for the audition period.
My prior experience of this cartridge indicated max mass was in order and I used it with a Sumiko style headshell and as much additional mass as I could balance though not as much as I would have liked (with the Tecnoarm I use 4 gms).
Trialling of various mats and clamps gave me a "best" combination of SRM Tech silicone mat (trimmed to fit inside the lip) with a 3mm Achromat on top in conjunction with a turned weight of virtually the same dimensions as recommended by Rudolph Bruil.
I did not have an SDS mat to try, but did try heavy Technics, light Technics, Extreme Phono none-felt and Speedmat, Iron Audio acrylic & Funk Achromat 5mm plus plain felt and also the Michell clamp.
In general terms I would say that results from various mats, to me, accorded with their composition, the heavy rubber offering good grip and drive but sounding deadened, the acrylic sounding hard and bright etc.
I had previously found the Achromat to provide benefit on an acrylic platter and using it on top of the 2mm silicone provided similar benefit in improved definition and clarity without excessive brightness, the weight being (I feel) necessary to reduce slippage on the rather hard surface and improve the transmission of resonances from the playing surface to the mat.
During the period of auditioning the replacement for the SUT in the form of a GSP audio Elevator Exp active step-up arrived, the improvement was remarkable and where I had nearly been ready to return to my other turntable I continued using the Technics for another 3 weeks.
I then returned to my previous turntable and fitted the DL-103 to it for a direct (more or less) comparison.
My conclusions from that were twofold, the improvement in the DL103 with this active step-up (in my system) was remarkable, things I had attributed to limitations in the cartridge were shown to be in the transformer.
The other was that there were areas of the SL 1200 that required upgrade to bring its performance up to the standard of my other deck.
At least with this particular cartridge.
Interestingly, my attention was largely on the areas that have been most discussed in this thread (with the notable exception of the external power supply) - namely the arm wiring and the damping trough mod.
The possibility of obtaining better/heavier counterweights was not known to me and is one of the things I found of interest here.
Having left it alone for some time the tinkering bug seems to be biting again and all the positive stuff here - thank you all - will probably have me in penury for the rest of this year (unless I lash out on a DL-S1 instead :) )
I know none of this is news but hopefully it is some contribution to the content of this thread.
Have fun and enjoy the music.
Peter Stockwell
19-01-2009, 08:50
Interesting thoughts there, Peter! Having heard a few different Garrards in suitable plinths recently I would concur with you observations.
Any chance of a more detailed review in a separate thread (Strokes of Genius section)? It would act as a good reference for members :)
Marco,
I sold my 401/Bastin Plinth/Spacearm this weekend, but I'll be able to visit it when I feel like it, it's only a few klicks away. But for a short time the 401 and the SL1210 were in the system, almost, at the same time.
I didn't do any A/B comparisons because I had the two available together for a short time. I now know that the PSU that Martin Bastin had made for me was more of a hindrance than a help. It's voltage was too low to allow the 401 to stabilise (about 20 - 30 mins). The slatedeck bearing mod is a big leap in performance over the standard bearing.
In my system I think the spacearm was a better than the technics standard arm.
Taking all this into account, a KAB psu'd SL1210 with a standard arm is maybe not a match in a slugfest with a 401 but does have a more relaxed and open presentation. The Garrards brute force is certainly, even absolutely, addictive, and I regret not having run it without the PSU when it came back from service in 2007, but I can't help feeling it imposes its character more on the music than the Teccie. Richard (Gromit) may have been right to go with the arm mod first.
I just took delivery of an AT33PTG and I have a new arm on order, one that's reputed for it's low end performance, so it'll be interesting how the Technics story develops. I'm really impatient to get that new arm fitted, it's promised for the last week of January.
cheers
I've just read about and tried an interesting tweak that I found on Vinyl Engine. It's no use me providing a link here because VE will probably block or divert it, but its in the thread "Technics SL-1200 and SL-1210 modification" on the Technics forum.
Briefly, it involves simply removing the plastic covers from over the electronics and the motor coils. Reversible, and worth a try I think.
John
Briefly, it involves simply removing the plastic covers from over the electronics and the motor coils. Reversible, and worth a try I think
I've just tried it - there's nothing much to worry about since the platter and mat will keep the dust away. I'm playing the deck now and *think* I can hear improved clarity, but I need to listen some more.
Greetings,
Technics SL1200/1210 owners might be interested to read about the selfsame deck fitted with an SME IV and using an off-board power supply in the August edition of Hi Fi World magazine.
Yep, Barry - it belongs to David Price. I've known about it for some time :)
Is the magazine out in the shops now then? If so, I'll have to get it.
Marco.
Peter Stockwell
27-06-2009, 16:36
Oi, I got one like that, too :)
Dave Cawley
27-06-2009, 16:55
http://www.soundhifi.com/rosewood.jpg
http://www.soundhifi.com/sme5.jpg
http://www.soundhifi.com/copper.jpg
How Marco could keep his mouth shut was an inspiration to us all, well done mate! :kiss:
It is actually a SME V at about £2.2K with A Koetsu Rosewood Signature £3.3K ! The copper mat isn't on it, but our ordinary audiophile mat is.
Regards
:bag:
Dave
All he needs now are a set of Isonoes (which I've recommended to him) and it's job done :)
Marco.
And a better cartridge..............;) Koetsu's are so last millenia :lol:
Yep, Barry - it belongs to David Price. I've known about it for some time :)
Is the magazine out in the shops now then? If so, I'll have to get it.
Marco.
Yes it is.
Just bought the mag. I wonder what Dave thinks of the picture on p.103? The caption says "Timestep PSU mod uses a new National Semiconductor LM317L low noise regulator, expensive Vishay rectifiers and premium Nuvotem 'Audio Grade' transformer" But the picture shows the Technics transformer and fuse board that have been removed and replaced! :scratch::doh:
Just read David review a really interesting review I am looking forward to Marco thoughts
Damn, we only get the mag about 2 months after you guys do! :confused: Can someone please paraphrase the article?
To paraphrase,
ITS THE DOGS DANGLIES, INNIT:lol::lol:
ToneAudio also have some nice things to say about it
http://www.tonepublications.com/MAGPDF/TA_022.pdf
Cheers
Yep, looks like you're right on that one! :)
chris@panteg
04-07-2009, 13:50
Has anyone noticed the Funk FX arm tube upgrade for the stock techy in this months HIFI World ' looks interesting ' the price is the key though as for around £300 + fitting you can have the Jelco 250ST.
Marco what do you think ! could this mod bring the stock techy arm up a level ' very interesting ' i know the armtube is a weakness in the techy .
thoughts anyone.
Hi Chris,
Yes I noticed it. It's interesting that Arthur is now joining the D/D revolution.
We've had many chats in the past where he has (understandably, slightly grudgingly) acknowledged the superiority of direct-drive, when I told him over two years ago that I'd sold my LP12 and had planned to get a modified SL-1210, and so no longer intended to go down the Funk-modded LP12 route.
This, along with the continually growing promotion and popularity of the Techy on forums and in the media, has obviously rubbed off on him, so he wants a piece of the action, and good luck to him! :)
Like I've said before, mark my words, the day where modified 1200s and 1210s will be the defacto, almost automatic, choice for discerning audiophiles seeking high SPPV is growing ever nearer... The dominance of fatally flawed low-mass belt-drives are numbered and AOS will continue to play an influential role in their demise! :eyebrows:
It’s high time the truth got out and the UK hi-fi industry, and the enthusiasts within it, broke free from the shackles of the blinkered dogma inflicted on it by the ‘flat earth’ mafia of the 70s and 80s!
Marco.
Dave Cawley
04-07-2009, 17:19
Hi Fi world have measured the Jelco SA-250ST on many turntables including the one I supplied on the Avid Diva, it's a very good low resonance arm with super bearings. You would need to change the stock arm cable and too. So changing the arm tube, adjusting the bearings and changing the cable, phew................. But then for the £700 list price (go look!) you can have the 750D and most of a new PSU to boot!!
But what this does show is how good the Technics really is, well done Marco! (and thank you)
Regards
Dave
To be fair, haven't Technics made improvements to the pipe and internal wiring on recent versions? It wouldn't cost much for Technics to make some of these improvements in production, judging by the numbers of these they must still be selling..:)
I really need some dosh - ATC active 20 Pro's anyone????????? :)
chris@panteg
04-07-2009, 21:10
Dave
i do wonder if panasonic/technics have noticed this interest and various mods to the 1200 series ' perhaps they are bemused/baffled by it all ' maybe ' and to think at one time they were at the forefront of turntable/vinyl replay with the introduction of the SP10 mk3 especially .
I would love it if they anounced an SP10 mk4 or perhaps a reference 1200 mk7 why not ? i believe if any of the top jap audio companies put there minds too it ,
they could produce a turntable to compete with the very best.
I just don't think they can be arsed ( not much profit in it)
Dave Cawley
04-07-2009, 21:37
Hi Chris
Well Technics did do the SL-1200 MK4 and it even did 78rpm out of the box! Here is the manual (http://1200s.com/Manuals/SL-1200MK4-user.pdf)
http://k-nisi.hp.infoseek.co.jp/sl-1200mk4.jpg
Technics absolutely ignore me. I approached them at Munich and spent 2 hours on the phone to their UK office. They simply do not care the tiniest bit. I believe Adam Smith whilst deputy editor of Hi Fi World had a similar experience. This is so very typical of the European offices of great Japanese companies, they work 9 - 5 and don't care.................
There are those of us and lets call him Guy :kiss: that would in a heartbeat do the ultimate direct drive turntable, and we are edging closer with our experience with the SL-1200 and SP-10.
Regards
:bag:
Dave
chris@panteg
04-07-2009, 23:17
Dave ' i am not surprised
But with what you are doing and Marco spreading the word ' does it matter ? i am looking forward to the bearing Mod especially , this is great stuff Dave .
They simply do not care the tiniest bit
Dave, I find myself nodding in agreement but the problem may not be with the UK Technics/Panasonic guys. I worked for NEC for many years and there is a gulf between the regional office (mostly staffed with locals) and the Japanese HQ (almost 100% Japanese). They simply do not trust local offices and this results in great products sometimes dying a death due to inability to bring them to market, or (even more unforgivably), not supplying enough product against demand when the thing takes off. I was especially frustrated in the early days of Windows GDI laser printers when NEC had a superb product which could wipe the floor with HP. Could I get any decent stock of the things? History tells you who won that competition and why NEC are a faded company compared with their glory days of mobile phones and fax machines.
The only way you'll get what you want is to win over an enthusiastic senior Japanese manager. Then you'll see traction.
Dave Cawley
05-07-2009, 21:34
They simply do not trust local offices
For good reasons as explained above!! Such a shame.
Dave
Well, even if they do, the percentage of audio enthusiasts to DJ's is probably so small, they wouldn't bother.
Too bad though.
I wish they'd bring the SP-10 back. That's the juice!
Peter Stockwell
06-07-2009, 07:30
They simply do not trust local offices and this results in great products sometimes dying a death due to inability to bring them to market, or (even more unforgivably), not supplying enough product against demand when the thing takes off.
I also get the impression from working, a little, with Nissan, that in a japanese organisation nobody is ready to risk a mistake!
chris@panteg
06-07-2009, 07:44
Very true Peter
You know it really is thanks to DJ's ' indie ' drum' n 'bass that we have the 1200mk2 still in production otherwise like the SP10 it would have been very much more difficult to find one in good condition had production ceased say around 1990 .
the day where modified 1200s and 1210s will be the defacto, almost automatic, choice for discerning audiophiles seeking high SPPV is growing ever nearer... The dominance of fatally flawed low-mass belt-drives are numbered and AOS will continue to play an influential role in their demise! :eyebrows:
You forgot to add a demonic 'Mwahahahahahaha' followed my a bolt of lightning and orchestral stab, Marco....:lol:
jason
I also get the impression from working, a little, with Nissan, that in a japanese organisation nobody is ready to risk a mistake!
Yes, that too. Japanese workers are very hierarchical and won't speak out of turn.
How many "audiophile" versions of the SL1200 do you think Technics could sell? 100, 000? 10,000? - probably a very few hundred if truth be told. it wouldn't be worth their trouble, although, as I've said before, some of the simpler updates may make it into future varients.
A shame they didn't stay with the 78 option. I can't think of a more perfect modern deck to do this job - Lenco's are still cheap enough though and don't rumble on lateral stylus motion...
Dave Cawley
06-07-2009, 13:36
My SL-1200 is playing a 78rpm right now! Just plug in the new PCB!
Dave
Hello all!! This is my first post and I'm very happy to be here :dance:
We all know that a stock 1200 has inferior wiring so I rewired it and the table was totally transformed into a different beast!!
I replaced all the wiring with a single run of Discovery tone arm wire, thus, eliminating five contact points. I needed a different headshell for this project and decided on the Jelco (same as Sumiko).
The wiring was finished with shielding and terminated with WBT connectors for a superior fit.
I don't "swap" cartridges so this mod won't be suitable for those wanting to change carts on-the-fly....
I thought about the KAB (Cardas) mod but wanted to take it a step further and couldn't be happier with the results. It was like listening to a totally different table!!
- greater inner detail
- soundstage depth and width improved dramatically
- bass tightened up
- most noticeable difference was the frequency extension and vocals... clearer with better focus.
Kudos to KAB, Sound HiFi and other Technics mod enthusiasts for giving me the inspiration to attempt this rewire :cheers:
chris@panteg
14-10-2010, 09:04
Granite coaster's under the Isonoe feet
About 2 months ago i bought a set of 4 from Morrison's .
I placed these under my Isonoe feet stting upon a Notts analog isolation board and i thought there was subtle difference ' it seemed to tighten things up a bit.
But for some weeks now i have become increasingly unsure about the sound of my Timestep Techie ' somehow it just didn't sound right and i was scratching my:scratch: .
Yesterday i thought what if i removed the granite coasters ! so i did .
It was like the return of an old friend :) where have you been ! music now sound much more relaxed and tuneful , the Granite coaster's seemed to make my deck sound cold and clinical in fact very Hifi sounding .
So they didn't work for me but i was wondering if anyone has had a positive effect from using these or a Granite board .
Hi Chris,
Isonoe feet in order to perform optimally, as intended by the manufacturer, *must* be used on a GLASS surface.
No other material will allow the Isonoe feet to perform optimally. Anything other than that is a no-no. Wood is the worst of all, in which case Sorbothane feet should be used.
I just thought that I should make that crystal clear to everyone :)
Marco.
Thank heavens for the Techie Guru who is Marco.
Without the Isonoes, those granite coasters work quite well. My TD125 is sounding really good right now (I've had to replace my Thomas Dolby LP as I scratched it at the weekend while checking out the SL150 for Alex...)
NAS decks don't need ANYTHING other than the supplied board or token paving slab under them by the way..
I bought the glass coasters which are sold for the Isonoes. I've tried them on, tried them off several times. Much as I have expected the deck to sound better using them, it doesn't. My Isonoes prefer to rest directly on the wood of my Solid Tech system rack.
Hi Martin,
I think it may possibly be down to the overall contact surface area, which is miniscule when the Isonoes are on the glass 'coasters'...
I'll bring one of the glass shelves on my Mana rack down next time and place it on the top of your rack and we'll see what happens ;)
However, there's no doubt that your Techie sounds excellent, regardless of the fact that your Isonoe feet are in contact with a wooden surface.
I guess that the isolation properties built into the design of your rack compensate somewhat for the (arguably) Isonoes' sub-optimal coupling with wood, whereas on an ordinary wooden cabinet or table, results may be different. That's certainly what I've heard.
However, there are simply too many variables to know for sure exactly what is happening. The most important thing is your Techie sounds utterly fabulous, regardless (especially with the Paul Hynes SR5 PSU)! :cool:
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
14-10-2010, 20:08
Marco
The weekend's Techie session chez Martin went well, I gather?
Indeed it did, mate. Look out for my report in Blank Canvas tomorrow :)
Marco.
chris@panteg
15-10-2010, 00:10
Hi Marco
I think it may be worth trying the glass coaster's but just of late i have been meddling and fiddling with my system far too much ' its not perfect ! how could it be , but perhaps i should take heed of other's advice instead screwing and messing around with my set up.
So its a kind of system restore ' but not the windows kind if you see what i mean .
The Isonoes sat on my NAS board works ' and i have decided to stop tinkering with it:)
So its a kind of system restore ' but not the windows kind if you see what i mean .
If only it were that easy with some Windows installations, but then I'd be out of a job :)
Seriously, it's worth persevering with trials but don't go too far as otherwise it's hard to 'reset' back to a known good setup. If you try something and you get that nagging feeling that something's not right, or even you feel that you don't want to play music, think hard about what change you made and undo it. It's still change and will reinforce what you've achieved so far.
Btw, just to let you guys know that the report on my trip to Martin's will be posted sometime this evening, as I'm due to go out soon on some urgent business :)
Marco.
Btw, just to let you guys know that the report on my trip to Martin's will be posted sometime this evening, as I'm due to go out soon on some urgent business :)
Marco.
A.K.A. a "siesta" - semi-retired and urgent business on a Friday afternoon - yeah, right! If it's not a little nap then I bet you're off to the pub... ;)
:cool:
Noooooo.... This is my busy time of the year for framing things people want in the run up to Christmas, so I was out seeing a client in Llangollen. I went for lunch while I was out, though, to celebrate the profit I made :eyebrows:
Once I've opened a bottle of wine and settled down for the evening, I'll do the write-up :cool:
Marco.
Llangollen? It's too bloody much I tell ya :(
Lol - what's wrong with Llangollen? It's a lovely little place! This is where I went for lunch - and very nice it was, too:
http://www.galesofllangollen.co.uk/winebar.htm
Llan (as they call it here) is only 15 mins away :)
Marco.
Now you're making it worse :( :(
My innocense was spent in that area on hols etc and it's the gateway to my ancestry. Last I travelled through I played "The Healing Place" by David Sylvian - seemed apt at the time..
Lol! Ah I see, it makes you homesick?
I can totally understand that, as it's a beautiful part of the country. I'm lucky that Llan and the surrounding area are so close, but then that's one of the reasons why I moved down here from Glasgow, and to go into semi-retired mode, well away from the rat race :)
Marco.
My God I'm homesick now....
I've recently discovered the reason why my last ear infection was so bad (and other indications) - too much blood-sugar, which ain't going to get better. I can't stand all this life evaluation/hassle and the feeing/regression into my childhhod memories that comes with it. C'est la vie...
Sorry to hear that, Dave. If it's any consolation Del and I would love to have you visit sometime, where trust me, you will be very well looked after, and you could go and see all of your old haunts, too! :cool:
Marco.
That's very kind Marco, thank you :respect:
I'll bring my "Techie Basher" with me, you'll be shocked to the core :D
chris@panteg
27-01-2011, 10:49
A strange one this , but yesterday i refitted the plastic cover which sits under the stock platter on my 1210 and... i prefer it :) to my ears it sounds more controlled and better defined , been living with it off for quite a few months now , :scratch:
So i was wondering if anyone else has done the same and what they thought , better or worse it doesn't matter really as its what the end user likes best , but give it a try and see what you think , obviously Marco and Martin have the Mike New platter , so its not an option for them , but i'm leaving mine in place :)
I'm puzzled by that, Chris. :scratch: For me, removal of the cover made a very pronounced difference and Marco heard it on his too. Could there be something else at work, like air-borne vibrations, that the cover is preventing from getting to the circuit board or motor?
chris@panteg
27-01-2011, 12:17
Hi Martin
Well it is strange as when i 1st tried it without , it seemed to sound more open and i just left off .
But however when Richard took a look at my 1210 , he commented on the plastic cover , stating he prefer's it in place and demonstrated why !
With the cover off , if you rap your knuckles on the platter there is a pronounced ringing , with the over off he explained , you now have a bell like chamber/cavity effect , with the cover on , it still rings on the outer edge of the platter but in the centre , its pretty dead , but and this is the important bit.
He said try it both on and off and see which you prefer , its your choice at the end of the day , and i most definitely prefer it in place , but its not set in stone and i'm not saying everyone else do it but i'm happier with it in place .:)
Ok, if it's damping the platter ringing then mats are going to make a difference to it too. If you're using the Achromat I suspect it does less of a damping job than a Herbies, despite being a better mat overall.
You might want to try the Vaseline trick between Achromat and platter. Works well for me ;)
chris@panteg
27-01-2011, 12:53
I just might try that Martin :) , though i think wifey might be stupified and incredulous if she see's me doing it lol ;)
She found my record weight highly amusing and when i tried to explain the benefit , i got a :whistle::hmm: and a :pat:
chris@panteg
27-04-2011, 11:34
Over on the Timestep site , Dave has announced a new platter for the Techy , i thought folk on here might be interested !
It appears to be quite a different approach , very little detail so far though but the choice of material could be interesting .
Did i read last week of a AOS member getting a platter upgrade by Vantage audio or am i imagining it :scratch:
kininigin
27-04-2011, 12:20
Did i read last week of a AOS member getting a platter upgrade by Vantage audio or am i imagining it :scratch:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10750 post 14 onwards colin :)
Over on the Timestep site , Dave has announced a new platter for the Techy , i thought folk on here might be interested !
I'll pop over for a giggle at what pish he's came up with this time. Hey, it might even be as 'good' as his bearing - now imagine that!! :eyebrows:
It appears to be quite a different approach , very little detail so far though but the choice of material could be interesting .
A familiar tactic by Mr Cawley... Create a smoke screen and be as vague as possible, just in case someone who knows what they're talking about quizzes him on something he can't answer! ;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
30-04-2011, 13:57
I noticed the platter advert as well. I must admit that DC is extremely vague and to be honest this actually puts me off wanting to buy anything from him (not that I would anyway).
chris@panteg
30-04-2011, 14:31
I noticed the platter advert as well. I must admit that DC is extremely vague and to be honest this actually puts me off wanting to buy anything from him (not that I would anyway).
I wish he would give a straight answer , with it some detail and perhaps the thinking behind any major modification to the SL1200 , as more and more we are seeing these changes , which are far removed from the original design ! Which seem to suggest the guy's that designed this TT didn't do a very good job :rolleyes: and that these day's we know better :scratch:
Wakefield Turntables
30-04-2011, 18:51
I wish he would give a straight answer , with it some detail and perhaps the thinking behind any major modification to the SL1200 , as more and more we are seeing these changes , which are far removed from the original design ! Which seem to suggest the guy's that designed this TT didn't do a very good job :rolleyes: and that these day's we know better :scratch:
David Price of HiFi World made a similar comment regarding his unmodified Yamaha speaker the NS1000's, in that they put considerable effort, funds and brain power into designing the speakers. No it seems that anyone in a shed can produce something that is infinitely better. :eek: Now dont get me wrong I bought a lot of mods for the 1210 of mike new but after you've spoken to the guy you do realise that he really DOES understand the 1210 :eyebrows:. At least Mike answers any question thats thrown at him, and usually with a very informative answer.
Well if I was launching a new product (which I am actually) I would not want to give the game away until it was ready, surely that makes sense? DC, MN, Vantage, KAB and others all have their own take on what it takes to make the SL1200/1210 truly wonderful, IMHO the bearing/psu/platter are mere pieces in a complicated jigsaw that we will still be debating over when we are 90 (that is 42 years from now for me).
I know this forum is heavily biased towards the Techy and I applaud that, could it possibly be that DC reads this forum and knows it's members and if he let the cat out of the bag prematurely it would harm future sales of his platter, I bet! After all it cannot possibly be better than Mike's can it...:)
Vantage have a platter up-grade as do the outfit in the US, both involve adding another material to the stock platter, I suspect DC's is the same as machining a new platter from scratch would involve lots of hidden costs, personally I am now listening to flacs for a while until I get bored with that, my JR pre-amp is away for repairs so until it returns its flacs for now.
You make valid points, David.
However, Dave C's always been 'Captain Vague', and he always will be. He specialises in it, and so has vagueness down to a fine art for his own 'particular' reasons! ;)
Marco.
chris@panteg
30-07-2011, 11:41
I think someone has already mentioned these but when Richard was here last week he tapped and fitted a set of these feet to my SL-QL1 along with a new set of phono leads (in green this time) as the yellow set had developed an earth fault , now I'm not entirely sure which made the bigger difference but there was quite an improvement and Richard seemed genuinely startled , i don't think he was expecting it to be so big an improvement .
The new phono leads are a brand new design and I'm the guinea-pig so to speak , but i reckon these conical feet are well worth a try and you can buy them for £23 off eBay , a very good and cheap alternative to the Isonoes.
http://www.hi-fi-accessories-1.com/_images/dampingfeet.png
Wakefield Turntables
30-07-2011, 15:02
They look great but I cant help thinking that they would rob some of the visceral impact of the 1210. I had 6mm of sorbothane sitting under my isones for ages thinking that they were making an improvement, then one night after fettling the deck I forgot to replace the sorbothane. Well, I no longer use sorbothane under my deck, the difference was markedly different. I do however use sorbothane under my speakers and I think that in this instance things have improved. But for £23 its worth a punt :cool:
chris@panteg
30-07-2011, 17:00
Hi Andrew
These are made of rubber wth metal inserts , no sorbothane involved ! And if anything slam and punch are improved , they've turned my SL-QL1 into a proper grown up TT .
Spectral Morn
31-07-2011, 10:45
I think someone has already mentioned these but when Richard was here last week he tapped and fitted a set of these feet to my SL-QL1 along with a new set of phono leads (in green this time) as the yellow set had developed an earth fault , now I'm not entirely sure which made the bigger difference but there was quite an improvement and Richard seemed genuinely startled , i don't think he was expecting it to be so big an improvement .
The new phono leads are a brand new design and I'm the guinea-pig so to speak , but i reckon these conical feet are well worth a try and you can buy them for £23 off eBay , a very good and cheap alternative to the Isonoes.
http://www.hi-fi-accessories-1.com/_images/dampingfeet.png
Origin Live sell these too. I have a set to try but recent events in my personal life have robbed me of the time to do everything that I have sitting for me to play with; so sometime soon.
Regards D S D L
Wakefield Turntables
31-07-2011, 17:04
Hi Andrew
These are made of rubber wth metal inserts , no sorbothane involved ! And if anything slam and punch are improved , they've turned my SL-QL1 into a proper grown up TT .
Well done mate :cool: Nice to hear your £23 upgrade improved things for you :eyebrows:
chris@panteg
31-07-2011, 23:15
Well done mate :cool: Nice to hear your £23 upgrade improved things for you :eyebrows:
Ok ,ok , its helped make it a more grown up TT :lol: it does actually sound very good , my mate John has started looking to get one ! Only as a 2nd casual use turntable mind.
Wakefield Turntables
01-08-2011, 15:54
Ok ,ok , its helped make it a more grown up TT :lol: it does actually sound very good , my mate John has started looking to get one ! Only as a 2nd casual use turntable mind.
Nothing wrong with having a second TT, mines a Garrard 301 thats been sat in the attic for the last 2 years whilst i've been on the 1210 upgrade journey! :eek:
woodchamber
29-08-2011, 19:44
Hello everyone
I'm brand new here in this forum and i try to find some essential infos for modifying the SL-1210. I will get a new JELCO SA-750D with a full revision check and new through-going cabels. Would be a SME 309 a much better sound for the 1210 in your view?
Now i'm also looking for a PSU, and find so far the ones from KAB, Soundhifi & Origin Live. The guy who is helping me with the JELCO is checking now Dr. Fuss who is one of the PSU expert for turntables here in Germany. The price would be approximately around 250 €.
So what are the most important things to consider by upgrading a 1200/1210?
Thank you for your help
The Grand Wazoo
29-08-2011, 20:17
Hello Florian,
It's nice that you've landed at The Art of Sound with your questions about the turntable, but would you mind going to the Welcome section to introduce yourself to the members please?
This is required of new members - perhaps you could let us know a little about yourself, your equipment and the type of music you like to listen to.
Thanks
woodchamber
29-08-2011, 20:27
ok chris i will...
that will be a long story :)
The Grand Wazoo
29-08-2011, 20:29
Great!
Long stories are just what we love.
woodchamber
29-08-2011, 20:49
here we go, but not too long:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13035
Hello Florian
Firstly, the Jelco 750D is a fine arm and suits the Technics very well indeed. Having heard Marco's (AoS owner) deck, I can attest to that. I doubt that the 309 will better it in that application, although I have not heard one on a Technics. I used to have an SME IV and I don't think that betters a 750D as a cartridge platform.
As for power supplies and upgrade order, you will find days of reading material in this forum. Briefly, there are some upgrades that are mandatory to start your true high end Techie experience. I would certainly look at the PSU next, since you are already considering the arm. Having heard a few I can only recommend the Paul Hynes SR-5 as being superb both for the original bearing & platter and being able to handle bearing/platter upgrades into the future.
You need to follow an approximate upgrade path of:
feet > arm > PSU > mat > bearing > platter
For the feet, I don't know of anything to touch the Isonoes. I also strongly recommend a weight or clamp and a good mat.
Good luck and keep asking questions.
woodchamber
29-08-2011, 21:45
Thank you for your answer. Well it seems like to find the right PSU is a bit of a sciences. What is the price of a Paul Hynes SR-5 approximately ?
I'll leave Paul to reply to that as his prices may have changed.
WOStantonCS100
30-08-2011, 05:38
...mines a Garrard 301 thats been sat in the attic for the last 2 years whilst...
The attic!!! :wowzer: I love my 1200's, I really do; but, if I had a 301 :drool: it would NOT be in the attic. I'd be Shindo-ing that thing! Are ya crazé? :facepull: :) :)
woodchamber
30-08-2011, 10:48
So what i found here in the forum about headshells is the Oyaide, and the DL-103 cartridge that would fit perfect with the Jelco SA-750D if i would go the MC way. but then i need a MC preamp too...:scratch:
Florian, I would strongly point you in the direction of an MC step-up transformer and an MM preamp. This will take your MC's performance up another level and should not cost a fortune as MM phono amps tend to cost less and a decent 'starter' step-up transformer like the Bob's Devices CineMag will cost you about $400. Trust me when I say that the detail, dynamics and lower noise floor will all be attributes you will enjoy.
woodchamber
30-08-2011, 12:45
Thanks Martin. Well the Audiotorium A23 is also mentioned a few times here, but i guess with double price. :stalks:
Marco will tell you that the Auditorium A23 is a must with the Denon DL-103 and I agree.
Having used the SME309 and Jelco arms both with good cartridges I can say IMHO the Jelco is better. The Denon 103 suits it very well also.
Stratmangler
30-08-2011, 16:01
What's one of these ?
MCRU Technis PSU
What's one of these ?
well spotted, got an A in english at school, that was 30 years ago though!
Wakefield Turntables
30-08-2011, 17:41
The attic!!! :wowzer: I love my 1200's, I really do; but, if I had a 301 :drool: it would NOT be in the attic. I'd be Shindo-ing that thing! Are ya crazé? :facepull: :) :)
I just noticed this post. Nope I was going to buy a Garrard 401 as a thing it is a thing of much beauty and then common sense kicked it. I have a 309 tonearm sitting on the 301 which needs a but a TLC. I intend restoring the 301 as it needs some TLC. This will form the deck for my valve system (see my signature). Currently its sitting on my bedroom floor. I have many projects on the go like pimping out a playstation one CD player and making lovely new power cables and balanced interconnects for my 1210 setup. So at least the 301 is now out of the attic!!
PS I have a linn lp12 up in the attic as well and that IS staying up there !!!
chris@panteg
31-08-2011, 21:53
Having used the SME309 and Jelco arms both with good cartridges I can say IMHO the Jelco is better. The Denon 103 suits it very well also.
Hi Dave
Did you try the Oyaide phono cable with the 309 , If so what did you think ?
Compared to the supplied VDH cable which appears to be very poor .
Hi Dave
Did you try the Oyaide phono cable with the 309 , If so what did you think ?
Compared to the supplied VDH cable which appears to be very poor .
I have it on here at the moment, 401, 309, oyaide cable going direct to my pre-amp which as an excellent phono module built in (it was an optional up-grade at the time).
The arm when I bought it off SWA had Graham's own tone arm cable, the oyaide just sounds so good I cannot see any need to use another, I have a Jelco one as well but nowhere near as good.
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