Calling all SL-1200/1210 owners! [Archive] - Page 2

Marco

18-06-2008, 09:14

Hi Peter,

I missed your reply below because I sent my last post one minute after yours :)

Just getting the PS and the tonearm rewire organised. enfin, ordered at least. Spent most of the day re-organising the kit. The Naim stuff is almost all on one stack, the SL1210 and the phono stage on it's own stand. Can't run two tables at the same time; my Garrard is a thing of beauty but it's now being confined to the cellar until a resurrection some day.

The Garrard is a thing of beauty and for that reason I wouldn't be in a hurry to get rid of it. It's still a classic.

The strong points are immediately obvious, solid constuction, no bloody wobbly bits to go out of kilter. Ease of use that audiophools have long forgotten about, almost instant Start and Stop.

Yep, the 1210 is a joy to use. No pissing about with bloody rubber bands (and the sonic limitations they impose). Touch button speed change is also so much more practical.

Musically it stuffs any beltdrive wobbledeck I've ever heard. Why ? Because it doesn't tell any lies about pitch or timing! For me that's really the heart and soul of the music. It only took me 5 minutes to decide to retire the Garrard 401/Bastin plinth psu/Spacearm.

I totally agree. The rock-solid pitch and timing is a by-product of the almost totally accurate speed stability; something which 'rubber band' decks could only dream of achieving. I now can't listen to most belt-drive T/Ts as the levels of wow and flutter they induce, and how this manifests itself on the music, gets on my nerves. The thing is you don't realise there's anything wrong with belt-drives until you hear a good direct-drive T/T - it's an effect that only becomes obvious when your ears are attuned to the difference. I am somewhat surprised though at just how quickly your 401 has been retired!

A friend has a CDS3/555PS based system. What the SL1210 does, reminds me of that. That is, it keeps everything in perfect order, whilst still allowing all the naturalness and life to come through.

I know exactly where you're coming from. The top Naim CDPs have a natural 'ease' about them that makes their handling of all genres of music thoroughly convincing and addictive (the 555PS is special, but it should be!) The 1210 does a similar thing in that music simply washes over you with an effortless quality and little sense that it's being processed in any way. The deck never seems to be under stress no matter how complex the music is being played.

I've not had so much fun with LP for months, maybe years.

Great stuff, and that's exactly how I felt when I first got my 1210 - and how I continue to feel now! I hope there are plenty of good record shops in Paris because, trust me, your compulsion to play vinyl now will be greater than ever :gig:

Enjoy!

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

18-06-2008, 11:16

Hi Peter,

The Garrard is a thing of beauty and for that reason I wouldn't be in a hurry to get rid of it. It's still a classic.

I just can't bring myself to sell the Garrard, it needs a dignified setting. But I don't have the space to have it set up in permanence, and as you so succintly put;

The 1210 is a joy to use.

I am somewhat surprised though at just how quickly your 401 has been retired!

Henry Cooper was a great Boxer, but then came Mohammed Ali.

The top Naim CDPs have a natural 'ease' about them that makes their handling of all genres of music thoroughly convincing and addictive (the 555PS is special, but it should be!)

I think the 555PS with a CDS3 is great, but it's overkill for a CDX(2), I didn't like the effect it had. Digressing a little, I was looking at notching up the Naim ladder but audionning the suspects at the next level didn't find any wothwhile improvements and it meant mucho dinero too.

On the otherhand a listen to an SL1210, admittedly at home, and I was convinced. As Gromit put it, its a wake up call. I can already here a voice saying there's gotta be stuff that has all the Naim virtures and be a lot cheaper. Those are dangerous thoughts, although a 1 box CD player equal to a CDX/XPS or better would be nice. The missus would be glad of less box clutter. Especially if it could be had for peanuts.

Great stuff ...I hope there are plenty of good record shops in Paris because, trust me, your compulsion to play vinyl now will be greater than ever

Well, I did order two LPs this week, which is more than I ordered for the last year. I do have a real problem for LP storage.

cheers

Peter

Mike

18-06-2008, 20:25

I've just ordered an Acromat but at the moment I'm baulking at the SDS jobbie, £85 seems a wee bit steep TBH. The deck only cost me £80! :scratch:

Anyone got a spare I can try? ;)

Peter Stockwell

19-06-2008, 06:25

I've just ordered an Acromat but at the moment I'm baulking at the SDS jobbie, £85 seems a wee bit steep TBH. The deck only cost me £80! :scratch:

Looked at that way, it certainly is excessive; i'm still :scratch: my head about the £400 service I had done on my Garrard (by Slatedeck, it was the ultra deluxe bring everything up to impeccable and add the bearing mod service and included a sizeable sum for shipping) and the fact the SL1210 I just bought cost half that.

I ordered the SDS isoplatmat directly from the Very Nice Lady at SoundDeadSteel. You're maybe in their backyard, they're in Northumberland, perhaps the Nice Lady would let you have one from the factory door? There's no distributor for SDS in France, is it only Origin Live that sells them in the UK ? I'll post my verdict asap.

The Achromat is cheaper ?

regards

Peter

Marco

19-06-2008, 09:42

Yomanze

19-06-2008, 10:39

I've just ordered an Acromat but at the moment I'm baulking at the SDS jobbie, £85 seems a wee bit steep TBH. The deck only cost me £80! :scratch:

Anyone got a spare I can try? ;)

I'm getting very good results with the SRM/Tech acrylic mat (£35 inc P&P), which is excellent for metal platters & effectively damps ringing. Looks f*cking cool too ;)

link (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SRM-TECH-ACRYLIC-TURNTABLE-PLATTER-MAT_W0QQitemZ330244891900QQihZ014QQcategoryZ48648Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Marco

19-06-2008, 11:04

Yom,

How heavy is the SRM? The point is it needs to be of high mass (and the right material) to dampen the resonance in the platter, which is quite considerable with a 1210 when no mat is in place. That's why a thick rubber mat is supplied with the deck, although as we all know this sounds shit hence why the use of Isoplatmats and/or Achromats is necessary. It's not a glass platter we're talking about, which it seems the SRM was primarily designed for.

The Isoplatmat is pretty heavy so for the SRM to work properly on a 1210 it needs to be at least as heavy or as heavy as the stock thick rubber mat. However if it's not as heavy it could be used to interface with the record instead of an Achromat, in conjunction with an Isoplatmat.

Marco.

Yomanze

19-06-2008, 13:03

It weighs 250gm and is designed for alloy or glass platters. I don't use it any other mats. Flicking the SL1210 platter without the acrylic mat or with a felt mat definitely makes it ring, but flicking with the acrylic mat on gives a dull thudding sound without any hint of ringing at all - my test material consisting of my nails & ears right close to the platter lol.

Marco

19-06-2008, 13:30

The Isoplatmat weighs 475g, which is considerably heavier, although without comparing both I've got no idea which one dampens the platter more. From your description it seems the SRM is doing a pretty good job. Which mat improves the sound more overall is of course also open to question. Anyway, regardless, the SRM appears to be another viable option to consider.

Marco.

Mike

19-06-2008, 15:46

Mikey, what are you bothering with Isoplatmats for when your deck's not even up and running yet! :lolsign:

I'd lend you mine no problem but I fear I might not see it again for quite a while by the time the deck's surfaced from its box and the platter is in a position to rotate and play music via your D.I.Y phono stage :lol:

;)

Marco.

P.S Peter, I dealt with the very same lady.

Two points.

1. The rubber mat is rubbish.

2. It IS out of the box and running! :ner:

Erm, fair point about the phono stage though, the deck may be running but theres still no music yet. :(

Marco

19-06-2008, 15:58

I didn't realise you'd found the energy to lift it out and plug it in - nice one! :eyebrows:

It was the third point I was of course referring to. When you're in a position to judge the effect of mats give me a shout and I'll fire off the Isoplatmat for you to try :smoking:

Marco.

Mike

19-06-2008, 16:01

Ta.... I'll let you know! ;)

Marco

19-06-2008, 16:07

No worries. I seem to be the resident Technics T/T accessories on-loan service these days :)

Marco.

NRG

19-06-2008, 21:12

Two points.

1. The rubber mat is rubbish.

2. It IS out of the box and running!

About bloomin time! :doh: :lolsign:

One point, how do you know the rubber mat is rubbish if you've not played anything yet...:scratch:

Don't be too dismissive about the original mat. I've tied many combinations of mats on that deck, my Lenco and the SP10 and whilst it comes down to personal choice in the end, on all of them the original mat stayed! I tried so many I lost count including DIY versions, the Isoplatmat, the Achromat, cork etc.

The Lenco sounded best with the original mat and a layer of that anti slip matting for plates on top. I found the deck you have was best with the original mat and a cork one on top.

Others have found the Garrards also benefit from keeping the original mat so don't be too dismissive! I know you'll have fun experimenting! (Watchout for changes in VTA due to excessive thick mats ;) )

Marco

19-06-2008, 21:26

Mike

19-06-2008, 23:24

One point, how do you know the rubber mat is rubbish if you've not played anything yet...:scratch:

Ok, I'll confess. I'm 'judging a book by its cover' to a fair extent, and going on (long) past experience. I've never been a fan of rubber mats in general.

BUT!... If I don't get hold of something for comparison I'll never know! ;)

mistygreenandblue

19-06-2008, 23:29

Misty,

I agree with Guy's observations. Modifying a stock 1210 is a much safer option. Also, having heard both decks on various occasions there isn't much difference in performance, IMO, between a fully KAB modified SL-1210 and an SP10. Perhaps an SP10 has slightly more weight but that's about it - given the same arm and cartridge their musical presentation is virtually identical.

Marco.
Hi Marco,

If one took a basic 1210, what in terms of upgrades makes the most difference on the sound quality ladder?....Sit aside the arm mods - I'm more interested in a SME or modded Rega arm sat on the motor unit....How much difference does the p/s make?....I noticed in one thread either here or at PFM that Richard (Dunn) had mentioned he was looking at making a p/s for a TT....His products seem to be well priced and easily available, unlike KAB across the pond....Even though I have contacts well placed over there, customs are a wild card...I tend to ask many (on the surface stupid questions) and then quietly go and make my purchase without a lot of fanfare....I'm not sure I can do this with a TT, simply because messing around with tonearms and cartridges is not my normal hunting ground....so even more stupid questions on the horizon....

NRG

20-06-2008, 05:34

Hi Neal,

You're of course entitled to your opinion but, no offence, if you think the stock rubber mat supplied with the SL-1210 is anything other than crap when compared to an Isoplatmat or Achromat then I'm seriously worried about your ears and/or the sonic signature of your system!! All it does is muddy the sound, cork or no cork :confused:

Marco.

Sweeping and dismissive statement! My ears and system are just fine, thank you :mental: As you weren't present during my mat experiments you would not be aware of the results. I've not heard the 1210 so can't comment but I found the original mat on all the three decks I had at the time damped the platter best and in combination with others provided the best sound. So :ner:

Peter Stockwell

20-06-2008, 06:53

Please don't get into a mat spat :lol:, what next Stand wars ? :mental:

I had a foam mat (NAS ?) over the rubber mat of my 401, I think I should dig it out and try it over the stock rubber mat of the Teccie.

Marco

20-06-2008, 07:56

Sweeping and dismissive statement! My ears and system are just fine, thank you :mental: As you weren't present during my mat experiments you would not be aware of the results. I've not heard the 1210 so can't comment but I found the original mat on all the three decks I had at the time damped the platter best and in combination with others provided the best sound. So :ner:

My apologies, Neal. I mistakenly thought you had carried out your mat experiments on a 1210. It kind of read that way when you wrote:

I've tied many combinations of mats on that deck...

I presumed you were referring to the 1210, but you were of course referring to Mike's SL-120. However both decks use pretty much the same platter do they not? Therefore I would have thought results would be similar...

Anyway, I certainly don't wish to belittle your findings. It's just that I was rather surprised by your assertion that rubber mats of any description are good when this is diametrically opposed to my own experience not just on a 1210 but on every other deck I have owned.

For me, rubber mats, particularly thick ones, always seem to muddy/dull the sound, reduce dynamics, and make for a 'thick', 'plodding' type of presentation. I don't seem to be alone in this view as almost everyone else I know who's bought a 1210 has ditched the rubber mat in favour of something else. The rubber mats are certainly not supplied for any reasons of sound quality - they're just cheaper to make.

Hey, like they say, I guess it would be a boring world if we were all the same! :lolsign:

Marco.

Gromit

20-06-2008, 07:57

Just been having a couple of days playing with this...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_2146.jpg

All I'll say for now is that it's one hell of a turntable - the 1210's got more than just a small fight on its hands. Just a shame the Pioneer's not mine. :(

Marco

20-06-2008, 08:26

Yes, I know, I've read all about it on PFM where you chose to post it first! Traitor ;)

Only kidding... (A bit) haha.

Yep it looks like a very fine deck, Richard. I'm not surprised that it's good and is giving the 1210 a hard time. It wasn't just Technics that produced high quality D/D mechanisms in the 70s and 80s - all the Jap 'big boys' done it. You could find similar (and perhaps even better) examples from Denon, Marantz, Sony, Trio, and many others. The problem was most of them never seen the light of day in the UK and people here are only just now discovering them.

I love the tonearm - it looks like an Acos Lustre or a derivative of such. These were once made for Rega and put on their early decks before manufacturing their own tonearms. The RB250 and 300 were touted at the time as being an 'upgrade' but not in my opinion.

The Acos-sourced arm was a more solid (and nicer) piece of engineering and IMO sounded far better. It was yet another example of marketing triumphing over what actually performed best. Good luck to Rega, though, as a business decision it made perfect sense and the RB250 and 300 have since gone on to sell by their 1000s worldwide and become one of the most popular and most used tonearms in the world. I do think though that they are somewhat overrated even when modified by OL, Moth, etc. The stock Technics arm when suitably fettled in my experience outperforms both by a significant margin.

The only thing about decks like the Pioneer you're using is what do you do in the event of something going wrong with the motor unit? Do Pioneer still service them? Regardless of anything else that's always going to be the advantage with the 1210 as you will always be able to have it repaired if necessary. Also, I suspect that once you have the stock arm rewired on the 1210 and fit the off-board PSU (which I hope you will do as it transforms the deck's performance) your perceptions of both T/Ts will be somewhat different... :eyebrows:

Anyway, in the meantime have fun!

Marco.

Gromit

20-06-2008, 11:59

I love the tonearm - it looks like an Acos Lustre or a derivative of such. These were once made for Rega and put on their early decks before manufacturing their own tonearms. The RB250 and 300 were touted at the time as being an 'upgrade' but not in my opinion.

The Acos-sourced arm was a more solid (and nicer) piece of engineering and IMO sounded far better. It was yet another example of marketing triumphing over what actually performed best. Good luck to Rega, though, as a business decision it made perfect sense and the RB250 and 300 have since gone on to sell by their 1000s worldwide and become one of the most popular and most used tonearms in the world. I do think though that they are somewhat overrated even when modified by OL, Moth, etc.

Marco.

I'd tend to disagree Marco - in fact back in 1985 I upgraded my then R200-equipped Planar 3 with the RB300 and never looked back. The increase in resolution, bass speed and all round improvement in detail (both in terms of what was coming through and musical nuance) was definitely on a higher level.

Saying that, when I went from my fully-OL-modded RB250 on the Spacedeck to the Spacearm the change was not subtle. Possibly one of the biggest upgrades I've made in a long time.

I'd also love to hear the PL-71 with some upgrades applied - I'm simply using it as standard (with the Zu etc of course). It really does sound incredibly good as it is - better than the 1210? I would say a resounding yes to that...and then some. It's more dynamic, has (even) more bass control, more colour, more rhythmic information (and how it applies to musical phrase pattern), is smoother and better organised at the top end too. It presents a more musically satisfying and 'interesting' picture.

Marco

20-06-2008, 13:01

Gromit

20-06-2008, 13:53

Richard,

Regarding the Acos/Rega thing I guess it's just a matter of taste and/or sonic signature of our partnering systems at the time when we were judging :)

I've never found Rega arms to be anything particularly special, except perhaps the RB1000, but even with that there are other arms at the price (or less) that I would rather use - the Hadcock being a case in point. I've always found Rega arms to be a bit bland and 'grey' sounding, lacking in tonal colour and expressiveness.

We are after all different in some respects with hi-fi as you like Lyras, whereas I find them too lean and somewhat 'toppy' sounding for my tastes, so perhaps the Acos-sourced Rega arm lent itself better to the DL-103 (a cartridge much more to my tastes than any Lyra) that I was using at the time, particularly as it had a detachable headshell where I could use an AT magnesium one to add mass which the Denon likes. The bigger AT headshell you've got now is exactly what I was using in those days - yes it's that old! :eyebrows:

I'm glad you're enjoying the Pioneer and your comments are very interesting. Like I said though, there's a hell of a lot more to come from the 1210 once the arm is fully fettled and you add the external PSU, so don't wet your pants too much yet! I'll be very interested to hear what your thoughts are on both decks when the 1210 is 'done and dusted', but you will probably have to give the Pioneer back to Mr Dunn by then ;)

Hey, just think if the PL-71 is making the 1210 sound 'shit', how 'shit' was the Spacedeck which the 1210 trounced!!! :lolsign:

Marco.

Marco - I'm very much looking forward to hearing how far the 1210 can go, especially with regard to the arm. I'm not overly worried about getting the psu done for the time being - that can wait for next year possibly (plus I don't want to wreck the thing with my DiY ineptitude!).

I think one should be fair here - the NAS was never really trounced by the 1210. The NAS loses out in the bass most definitely (and it does have the best bass I've heard at home from a belt drive) but gains in terms of clarity and, at the moment, listenability plus it has a much lower noise floor - something which I noticed vs my previous Gyro. Saying that, in terms of sheer drive and sense of fun the Technics is very much ahead. And, I just love using the thing as it's so damn easy. :)

Oh...the Sumiko arrived this morning. Must get round to having a play with it. :)

NRG

20-06-2008, 14:24

....

For me, rubber mats, particularly thick ones, always seem to muddy/dull the sound, reduce dynamics, and make for a 'thick', 'plodding' type of presentation. I don't seem to be alone in this view as almost everyone else I know who's bought a 1210 has ditched the rubber mat in favour of something else. The rubber mats are certainly not supplied for any reasons of sound quality - they're just cheaper to make.

Hey, like they say, I guess it would be a boring world if we were all the same! :lolsign:

Marco.

Maybe that's correct used on their own but I used them in combination with other types to get the balance I wanted.

I've heard Greg's (over on AT) Garard with just the OEM mat and its none the worse for it, Greg did the same experiments as me and concluded the original was best, he uses it 'as is' AFAIK.

Truth is none of the after market mats damped the platter well on any of the decks I tried, it still rang like a bell when tapped and I could detect a hardening in the mid and an edge to HF on all of them used in isolation but in combination they all improved giving slightly differing presentations....but there was certainly no muddle, that was one of the aspects of the sound I wanted to avoid as was any edge to the HF.

Peoples mileage will vary and its a very subjective choice in the end.

Peter Stockwell

20-06-2008, 15:39

I'm not overly worried about getting the psu done for the time being - that can wait for next year possibly (plus I don't want to wreck the thing with my DiY ineptitude!).

Saying that, in terms of sheer drive and sense of fun the Technics is very much ahead. And, I just love using the thing as it's so damn easy. :)

I thought I'd ordered the PSU & Arm upgrades from KAB, but they haven't got back to me with a shipping quote. I'm going on hols soon, so I'm going to let it slide until "la rentrée" (beginning of the year, french style, i.e. september).

I'm also wondering if I should go for broke and buy a fully KAB'd SL1210 and sell on the one I have, they sell very well here on ebay, or I should just upgrade the one I've got. If I take the later course of action, I'm inclined to start with the PSU and work back to the arm.

I've had to force myself to listen to CDs recently (180° turnaround!), and I'm now up to 4 LPs ordered in the week since buying the Teccie :lol:

(No Music this weelend MiL is in town :steam: )

Peter

Mike

20-06-2008, 15:41

Marco

20-06-2008, 16:18

Didn't you see a picture and description before ordering it? What were you expecting something gold-plated and lined with diamante jewellery? :lol:

It does the job very well - relax :smoking:

Neal and Richard, I'll get back to you later - just having some munchies...

Marco.

Mike

20-06-2008, 16:24

What were you expecting something gold-plated and lined with diamante jewellery? :lol:

Of course I bloody well was ya big daft haggis muncher! :steam:

Blimey.... some people eh?

NRG

20-06-2008, 18:15

While we're on the subject of mats, my Achromat has arrived.

In terms of 'material value for money' I'm feeling rather underwhelmed to say the least! :steam:

I'll reserve final judgement until I've heard what it does of course, but I'm seriously impressed with the feel of the thing at over fifty quid. But not favourably! :scratch:

Cheers,
Mike.

Understandable Mike...look up place mats on Ikea IE:
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/70128608

Worth a try when cut to size. Also B&Q Cork floor mats....amd my favorite:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=217606&doy=19m6&C=SO&U=strat15

Neal and Richard, I'll get back to you later - just having some munchies...

You do that a lot! :lolsign: IE: 'I'll respond later in more detail'....'more to follow later'....etc :lol: :cool:

NRG

20-06-2008, 18:19

Mike also try this guy on Ebay:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Vinyl-Alignment

Mike

20-06-2008, 18:44

Cheers Neal! :)

Marco

22-06-2008, 09:41

Neal,

Maybe that's correct used on their own but I used them in combination with other types to get the balance I wanted.

Nothing wrong with that, and I can see how it could work.

I've heard Greg's (over on AT) Garard with just the OEM mat and its none the worse for it, Greg did the same experiments as me and concluded the original was best, he uses it 'as is' AFAIK.

I heard Greg's Garrard at Owston and liked it so I don't doubt he's got the right solution. The platter on a 1210 is very different, though.

Truth is none of the after market mats damped the platter well on any of the decks I tried, it still rang like a bell when tapped and I could detect a hardening in the mid and an edge to HF on all of them used in isolation but in combination they all improved giving slightly differing presentations....but there was certainly no muddle, that was one of the aspects of the sound I wanted to avoid as was any edge to the HF.

Which aftermarket mats have you tried, Neal? I've had most of them. You're right, quite a few of them are crap but with the Achromat, for example, I've not had a bad experience yet. I think Arthur K has got the design spot-on. I hated, for example, the Ringmat, as I found it gave a hard edge to the sound.

What puzzled me, forget about Garrards, etc, was that you thought the stock rubber mat worked best on Mike's SL-120, and if it has the same platter as the 1210 (which I'm 99.9% certain it has), that's a bit of a mystery to me as to my ears (and most others) the rubber mat kills the sound in the way I have described :scratch:

The Isoplatmat/Achromat combination to my ears is just *SO* much better.

Peoples mileage will vary and its a very subjective choice in the end.

Yes, you're absolutely right.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

22-06-2008, 12:42

I thought I'd ordered the PSU & Arm upgrades from KAB, but they haven't got back to me with a shipping quote.

I'm inclined to start with the PSU and work back to the arm.

I've had to force myself to listen to CDs recently (180° turnaround!), and I'm now up to 4 LPs ordered in the week since buying the Teccie :lol:

Flea Market/Yard sale this morning locally, came away with quite a haul. Got some record cleaning to do :lolsign:

KAB got back to me, so the PSU and tonearm rewire are ordered.

Peter

Marco

22-06-2008, 13:19

Nice one, Peter. I told you you'd be buying more records! :)

Kevin (from KAB) always gets back to you but sometimes you have to give him a bit of time as he's a one man band and sometimes takes on more work than can handle. He’s a great guy to deal with, though. His reputation is very important to him so he always looks after his customers.

Say that you're a friend of mine in your next correspondence and you might get a discount, particularly if you mention that you first heard about the KAB mods here. The amount of referrals and business I've given him from all over the place warrants it! ;)

In any case, keep us posted on developments.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

22-06-2008, 15:00

I've also got John's counterweight, the Sumiko Headshell and the isoplatmat on the way.

I've got to do some culling on the record side tho', I only have room for 500 or so.

Marco

22-06-2008, 15:29

I've also got John's counterweight, the Sumiko Headshell and the isoplatmat on the way.

Nice one. Trust me, you'll be in vinyl audio nirvana :)

Marco.

Marco

23-06-2008, 08:01

Richard,

How are you getting on with the Sumiko - have you compared it to the Zu? :)

Oh, and let me know what you want to do about the cartridge leads.

Marco.

Marco

23-06-2008, 08:39

Hi Marco,

If one took a basic 1210, what in terms of upgrades makes the most difference on the sound quality ladder?....Sit aside the arm mods - I'm more interested in a SME or modded Rega arm sat on the motor unit....How much difference does the p/s make?....I noticed in one thread either here or at PFM that Richard (Dunn) had mentioned he was looking at making a p/s for a TT....His products seem to be well priced and easily available, unlike KAB across the pond....Even though I have contacts well placed over there, customs are a wild card...I tend to ask many (on the surface stupid questions) and then quietly go and make my purchase without a lot of fanfare....I'm not sure I can do this with a TT, simply because messing around with tonearms and cartridges is not my normal hunting ground....so even more stupid questions on the horizon....

:)

Gromit

24-06-2008, 10:07

Richard,

How are you getting on with the Sumiko - have you compared it to the Zu? :)

Oh, and let me know what you want to do about the cartridge leads.

Marco.

Hi Marco - haven't had much chance to do any comparisons with the Sumiko/Zu as yet but next week things are a lot quieter so I intend to get a couple of hours' fiddling done. :)

I'm also looking at a PL-71 on eBay at the moment (so keep your hands off you buggers...it's mine!!) :D

Marco

24-06-2008, 12:01

No worries, matey. Keep me posted when you get a chance to have a play :smoking:

Just be careful going down the PL-71 route. Have you checked it can still be serviced?

You don't want to run the risk of ending up with simply a nice looking ornament!

Marco.

jimb0

26-06-2008, 17:35

Peter Stockwell

27-06-2008, 07:45

The deck itself is solid but the arm is in a state so is going off to AudioOrigami for fettling and rewiring internally and externally.
J

Do you have more details on that, i.e. is it a single piece wire, or two piece ?

Thanks

jimb0

27-06-2008, 12:25

I believe it is a two piece job e.g. like with the original wiring scheme (there is a PCB involved). I have ordered a 3-piece brass counterweight from John as well which looks to be an excellent solution.

J

Peter Stockwell

27-06-2008, 13:04

I also have one of John's 'weights in the mail pipe. I also have KAB arm rewire on the way. That is, I ordered a new tonearm wand already rewired. But, once I've installed that I'll have a spare tonearm wand. Hmm, wonder what I could possibly do with that :eyebrows: ? In fact I'm a bit nervous about doing the installation myself, I'm never very at ease with a soldering iron. But, KAB says that the Cardas tonearm wires come ready tinned and only need "tacking" into place.

Yomanze

28-06-2008, 09:29

I also have one of John's 'weights in the mail pipe.

I have also placed an order for one :P Have had to move my counterweight right to the back with the Sumiko & Denon stuff on the end. Looks like lovely craftwork & look forward to trying it out.

Peter Stockwell

01-07-2008, 06:33

Have had to move my counterweight right to the back with the Sumiko & Denon stuff on the end.

Even with the "aux" weight ?

Yomanze

01-07-2008, 16:54

Even with the "aux" weight ?

Didn't get one of those ;)

Peter Stockwell

01-07-2008, 18:13

Get them from pretty much any DJ shop, cost peanuts. or eBay.

Yomanze

02-07-2008, 03:31

Get them from pretty much any DJ shop, cost peanuts. or eBay.

Cheers for letting me know. Never really thought about it to be honest as John's custom ones look the business anyway...!

Peter Stockwell

02-07-2008, 08:22

John's do look a thing of beauty, But generally one has to wait for beauty;)

Marco

02-07-2008, 11:31

Interesting stuff. I am about to start sorting out a super cheap SL1210 I got off ebay. The deck itself is solid but the arm is in a state so is going off to AudioOrigami for fettling and rewiring internally and externally. When I get it back I will be putting a Denon DL110 on it initially as a baseline and will then be looking at other possibilities. I am partcularly interested in the Audio Technica AT150mlx - has anyone got opinions on this cart?

The other things I need are a counterweight and a headshell or two - who does the custom brass ones I have seen in some of the pics here?

Hi Jim,

Nice one on the bargain SL1210. I hope it works well for you :)

Interesting choice of cartridge with the AT150MLX. It's probably about one of the best MM cartridges on the market right now, and is superbly detailed (but not in a clinical way) in the Audio Technica tradition, beautifully built too, but in the wrong system could be somewhat bass light. AT cartridges tend to have this kind of signature but it's not a problem in well balanced systems.

Thing is though you might love the DL-110 so much that you don't want to change it. Maybe I'm just biased towards moving coils but I'm not sure moving from a DL-110 to an AT150MLX is an out-and-out upgrade. There will be differences for sure but make sure the AT is what you're looking for before shelling out the necessary funds - perhaps by arranging to listen to someone's system where one is in use?

If you're 'into' MMs more than MCs then you should also check out the new range of Nagaokas, available from Musonic (see link below). These have a more 'meaty' balance, without sounding too 'heavy', but are also nicely detailed through the top and midrange. I suppose it depends if you want a weightier presentation or one that's a bit brighter and lighter. If you like brightly coloured cartridges the Nags certainly look funky!

The MP-150 or MP-200 would be an interesting alternative to the AT-150MLX. The MP-200 was recently reviewed in Hi-fi World.

http://www.musonic.co.uk/

Click on 'Cartridges', then on 'Nagaoka'.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

02-07-2008, 12:16

Interesting choice of cartridge with the AT150MLX. It's probably about one of the best MM cartridges on the market right now, and is superbly detailed (but not in a clinical way) in the Audio Technica tradition, beautifully built too, but in the wrong system could be somewhat bass light. AT cartridges tend to have this kind of signature but it's not a problem in well balanced systems.

If you're 'into' MMs more than MCs then you should also check out the new range of Nagaokas. These have a more 'meaty' balance, without sounding too 'heavy', but are also nicely detailed through the top and midrange. I suppose it depends if you want a weightier presentation or one that's a bit brighter and lighter. If you like brightly coloured cartridges the Nags certainly look funky!

The MP-150 or MP-200 would be an interesting alternative to the AT-150MLX. The MP-200 was recently reviewed in Hi-fi World.

Marco,

The AT150MLX is on my radar, but it doesn't seem to be available in the Euro Zone, or even in the EEC, so risk I import duties and VAT. Not that it would ultimately dissuade me. Afterall I've got the good stuff from KAB on order, but I won't get that until august.

I've decided to look down the Nagaoka way, I'm getting a dormant MP11 boron from Steve Shiels. I'm hesitating for one of the AT headshells, I haven't been able to decided if the LH-13, LH-15 & LH-18 differ only in weight, because I read somewhere that the LH-13 was "stubby" and maybe difficult to install a cartridge. I've seen these 'shells at $62 on ebay.

cheers

jimb0

02-07-2008, 19:27

Thanks for the info on the Nagaokas I will find out a bit more about them. The DL110 will definitely be going in there first for a decent amount of time first. I have got hold of a Funk Anchomat which a number of different people have recommended and have ebayed a second, 100% good, Technics arm - can't wait for it to turn up and actually spin some tunes!

jimb0

03-07-2008, 09:44

Second arm, brand new with all accessories arrived this morning. I fitted it and slapped the Denon cart in the headshell - a 2 minute job with removable headshell and the alignment tool. As I already had the cart total outlay was £110; result = big grin.

Marco

03-07-2008, 14:17

Nice one, Jim. Keep us posted of any more shenanigans :)

Peter,

As far as I know the AT headshells differ only in weight as per their numerical reference. Given that the Nagaokas are not excessively big cartridges I would go for the middle option and try an LH-15. The LH-18 may be too heavy in terms of mass.

Regarding the AT-150MLX, I think you can only get them form the US or Japan, but if you're set on one I wouldn't let that hold you back. There's always a chance that such a small item will 'sail through' customs without you incurring any import duty or tax charges. This has happened to me on a few occasions ;)

Hey, I heard Gromit's bagged a PL-71 of his own from Ebay. Maybe he'll decide to post some pictures of it here, too! :ner:

Marco.

Gromit

03-07-2008, 15:21

Hey, I heard Gromit's bagged a PL-71 of his own from Ebay. Maybe he'll decide to post some pictures of it here, too! :ner:

Marco.

If you insist.... ;)

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_2158.jpg

:)

Mike

03-07-2008, 15:40

Hmmm... I rather like the look of those things.

:)

Marco

03-07-2008, 15:40

Gromit

03-07-2008, 16:04

Nice one, Rich. I hope it works out well for ya :smoking:

Have you had a chance to play around with the Sumiko and Zu yet? I'll probably need the Zu back soon to use with another cartridge I'm trying (and the leads too if you don't want them) so let me know the score :)

Marco.

Hi Marco - funnily enough I've spent the morning comparing the 2 headshells and also swapping the cables around. Between the headshells there's absolutely no difference that I can detect - I even weighed them on a jeweller's scale on which they weighed exactly the same (12.7g with the Cardas leads).

The leads are very close - the Cardas is perhaps slightly more brightly lit with the Sumiko (litz) leads being a tad more forceful.

A useful exercise and one which makes one realise the benefit of headshell/lead changing on these sorts of turntable/tonearms. :)

I can't use the AT headshells unfortunately as the Dorian has its own threaded body. :(

Marco

03-07-2008, 17:45

I didn't think there would be much, if any, difference between the headshells. The only reason I went for the Zu was because I didn't like the fact that the fingerlift on the Sumiko (a completely detached affair) was in a different finish to the headshell itself (purely a visual thing) and I felt the metal alloy construction on the Zu appeared to be finished to a higher standard (it seemed more nicely polished). That's the way it looked anyway on the respective websites! :)

Regarding cartridge leads, try going back to the standard ones on the Technics headshell and see what happens... So, yes, you're right it is a useful exercise in comparing the effect of different leads. It also gives you an idea of what to expect when the arm is fully rewired with decent cable.

This will apply to the arm in the Pioneer as well as the one on the SL-1210. I still feel that the 1210 has the more potential, especially once the separate PSU has been added. I'd lay a bet that a fully KAB modified 1210 would outperform the Pioneer, Audioorigami rewire or not! Perhaps we could have a shoot-out of both decks when you've finished your fettling? :gig:

If you no longer need the headshells, leads and counterweight balance pop them back to me in the post. What are you doing about mats, btw?

Marco.

jimb0

04-07-2008, 08:40

My brass counterweight arrived from John this morning which I will try today. I also got a second technics headshell for fiver off the bay. It came with a freebie cartridge body attached - an ortofon OM series, anyone know if it's worth getting one of the better styii for this?

Marco

04-07-2008, 09:03

Yes, if you want to become a DJ; no if you don't ;)

Marco.

Yomanze

04-07-2008, 09:46

Look what the postman brought me this morning :)

http://img901.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/07/04/sl1210cw-4b2e0un21.jpeg

John is a gent & pleasure to do business with. Plus, I am enjoying much better sound. :) :smoke:

Peter Stockwell

04-07-2008, 11:36

Look what the postman brought me this morning :)
John is a gent & pleasure to do business with. Plus, I am enjoying much better sound. :) :smoke:

And he only sent it out yesterday! I know, mines on the way, with a bit of luck I'll get it in less than two weeks :)

Marco

04-07-2008, 11:50

Yomanze

04-07-2008, 12:09

Marco

04-07-2008, 12:13

No worries, dude. I prefer hand cuing (it's more accurate, I feel) so I always use the finger lift :)

What differences did the brass counterweight make to your ears?

Marco.

Yomanze

04-07-2008, 12:48

See my previous post for comments on first impressions of counterweight. May I add "where the fuck did that deep bass from??" to them :P Read my earlier post back & came across like I was talking about the headshell's difference to the sound!

Peter Stockwell

04-07-2008, 12:51

Nice one, Yom! :)

The brass counterweight balances make quite a difference, particularly when you're using a 103. What improvements have you noticed?

Yes John is a great guy. Hasn't posted here for a while, though... Is his health ok do you know? Last time we spoke he wasn't very well.

The Sumiko you've got looks a bit different from the ones I've seen shown here:

http://www.needledoctor.com/Sumiko-HS12-Headshell?sc=9

Does it still have the separate stainless steel finger lift?

Marco.

The Sumiko in the picture is similiar to the one I have and to the extra one I've ordered. It comes with a black finger lift that has to be installed via the cartridge fixing bolts. I got mine from Analogue Seduction on Uk.ebay. I must be getting sick :mental::lol: , I plan to have firstly cartridge shoot outs, and then when I'm settled with one I really like, maybe I'll get a mono cartridge.

I plan to trawl through some of the classic cartridges from the 70s, like the ADC XLM for example. First up, is a Nagaoka MP11 boron. I think my mystery Grado might be a GF3+ or some such. It seems to ring a bell.

I'm certainly that the guys in the UK have got their brass ;)

jimb0

04-07-2008, 12:56

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the Nagaoka Peter.

I think I will join the club and order a Sumiko via ebay I am trying to take things in stages so that I can understand if and what the benefits are... Like Marco really need a fingerlift on the headshell would just feel wrong without.

I also have a Pickering V-15 that I am going to try in the other headshell, cheap but very musical and great bass on my Lenco so worth a try.

J.

Peter Stockwell

04-07-2008, 14:41

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the Nagaoka Peter.

Like Marco really need a fingerlift on the headshell would just feel wrong without.

I also have a Pickering V-15 that I am going to try in the other headshell, cheap but very musical and great bass on my Lenco so worth a try.

J.

Before getting the Technics I was using a spacearm (that'll have to find a loving home one day) which doesn't have a finger lift. It's a straight arm with what serves as the headshell cut at an angle, so there's room to hook over the finger. I didn't install the finger lift on my Sumiko, and use it as I used the Spacearm. But then, I like automatic transmission cars :ner:, so the cueing lever gets used.

I'll install the Nag over the weekend I'm sure, Steve S., if his reading this, is going to wonder how :scratch: ;) .

cheers

thrunobulaxx

04-07-2008, 15:09

I haven't noticed a lift, but don't need it :P The logo is different on my headshell as Sumiko has re-branded, mine looks identical to the one if the pic apart from that. The most immediately noticable changes to the sound is it sounds more "solid" and tangible. Decay on instruments more pronounced & vocals sound great. Will have a proper listen though before I say more!

John seemed fine health-wise, he has just knocked out three sets of counterweights hehe.

Hello boys.:) sorry not been around here for a while, perhaps i should explain why, i have a severe problem with prolapsed discs, and have had a couple removed so far with prolly more to come, this means i am either in too much pain to do anything/ cant stand for long at machines or off my face on codiene if i have to stand/walk for longer than a few minutes, some weeks are better than others and at the moment its not as bad as it can be, hence i was able to do a few C/W`s for those that asked.
So thats cleared that up, i wouldn`t normally explain these things on a forum but would not want anyone to feel i was i was shunning this place or not wanting to help out.
sometimes i just dont have anything interesting to say.:scratch:

Glad to hear the royal mail were on the ball for once and that you are hearing the improvements made by fitting this C/W, i should have patented the thing:doh:

jimb0

04-07-2008, 15:28

If this is the result of you being off your face on codeine then keep on the stuff ;-)

I have stuck ended up with just the largest of the 3 weights balancing the DL110 on original headshell. To my ears there is a very positive increase in bass definition over the technics weight. My testing methodology was to play a few tracks of 'Blues & Roots' by Charles Mingus then stick the brass counterweight on and then play the whole thing ;-)

Sorry to hear you are not in the best of health John, really appreciate your efforts and would highly recommend your work to anyone else.

scoobs

04-07-2008, 15:41

Seconded! Many thanks for your help John, and all the best for the future.

Peter Stockwell

04-07-2008, 17:00

We shouldn't forget Scoobs remembered that it's 14.2mm too :eyebrows:

Marco

04-07-2008, 17:43

Hello boys.:) sorry not been around here for a while, perhaps i should explain why, i have a severe problem with prolapsed discs, and have had a couple removed so far with prolly more to come, this means i am either in too much pain to do anything/ cant stand for long at machines or off my face on codiene if i have to stand/walk for longer than a few minutes, some weeks are better than others and at the moment its not as bad as it can be, hence i was able to do a few C/W`s for those that asked.
So thats cleared that up, i wouldn`t normally explain these things on a forum but would not want anyone to feel i was i was shunning this place or not wanting to help out.
sometimes i just dont have anything interesting to say.:scratch:

Hey John, nice to hear from you again mate! :)

I had a feeling you weren't keeping too well, and I'm sorry it still appears to be on-going... Hopefully you'll be right as rain soon once your discs have been sorted out. Just chill mate and get well as soon as possible. We always like to hear from you so when you have the energy keep posting!

Glad to hear the royal mail were on the ball for once and that you are hearing the improvements made by fitting this C/W, i should have patented the thing:doh:

You should have! The effect on a Technics arm is a complete no-brainer. Hey maybe some royalties would be due for the person who came up with the idea? :lol:

;)

Marco.

Yomanze

04-07-2008, 19:33

Hello boys.:) sorry not been around here for a while, perhaps i should explain why, i have a severe problem with prolapsed discs, and have had a couple removed so far with prolly more to come, this means i am either in too much pain to do anything/ cant stand for long at machines or off my face on codiene if i have to stand/walk for longer than a few minutes, some weeks are better than others and at the moment its not as bad as it can be, hence i was able to do a few C/W`s for those that asked.
So thats cleared that up, i wouldn`t normally explain these things on a forum but would not want anyone to feel i was i was shunning this place or not wanting to help out.
sometimes i just dont have anything interesting to say.:scratch:

Glad to hear the royal mail were on the ball for once and that you are hearing the improvements made by fitting this C/W, i should have patented the thing:doh:

Sad to hear this John, hope things get sorted in the near future for you - wouldn't want to hear of you not being able to work metal! No reason why you couldn't patent it now & market your counterweights a bit more once you're well. At least your turntable's finished :)

The counterweights have made a huge difference. More "presence", tighter, deeper bass and the soundstage has expanded and become more "solid". It is also much easier to pick out individual instruments & the tonality, decay etc. has become more realistic. Could go on all day, but this is by far the best 'tweaky' upgrade in my setup.

Peter Stockwell

04-07-2008, 20:01

Could go on all day, but this is by far the best 'tweaky' upgrade in my setup.

ohh, err Don't think I do Tweaky :mental: :lolsign:
:gig:

Marco

05-07-2008, 00:03

Hi Richard,

I hope you don't mind me pinching some stuff you've written on PFM about the Pioneer and the 1210. I think it's important to tackle a few of the points you have raised. Why you don't post this stuff here when there are more knowledgeable people regarding the 1210 than on PFM is anyone's guess! ;)

Anyway, you wrote:

As to the 71 - did a couple of hours' listening through headphones last night, to really get into the nitty-gritty of the sonic differences between the 1210 and the Pioneer. The Pioneer basically makes the Technics sound broken - it's more detailed, warmer, much more tonal colour, well...just more musically convincing. So much more information is getting through.

In the same way as the 1210, this has the same, almost uncanny knack of sounding just right The Pioneer builds on this, sounding bigger, more expansive and generally more musically logical, less processed if you like.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not about to dispute what you heard - I'm quite sure I'd have heard the exact same as you if I had been there. However, what I think you should make clear when writing your viewpoint and making comparisons is to stress that what you have is a completely unmodified SL-1210 - it is not something that is performing at its full capacity; in fact in my experience your deck is likely to be achieving no more than about 65-70% of its true potential. I know because I've compared a standard SL-1210 to a fully KAB modified one at length.

I've said before that an unmodified 1210 is good but nothing special and I stand by that. What you get is a superb motor unit, housed in a solid plinth, with a good quality tonearm. However it is quite seriously hampered by the awful internal wiring of the tonearm, the poor quality supplied phono leads and plugs, dire rubber mat, cheapo mains lead, and most importantly, the existing internal power supply is nothing special (in its standard form).

All these weaknesses are completely eradicated with the KAB mods, particularly when adding the PS-1200 regulated PSU which not only eliminates an electromagnetic field from sensitive source control circuitry but provides a cleaner supply to the motor with greater 'headroom' resulting in more accurate rotational speed stability, which trust me, impacts hugely on the deck's performance and its handling of music. Fluid damping and rewiring of the tonearm also eliminate the presentational weaknesses you're currently hearing with your stock 1210.

Let's look at a couple of important points about the KAB mods which haven't really been mentioned much so far. Going back to the PS-1200 PSU, not only is it fundamental to the deck's performance (as are all PSUs in every piece of hi-fi equipment) but crucially it allows the use of a decent mains lead (instead of the captive piece of crap supplied with the stock 1210) as the PS-1200 has an IEC socket at the back of the unit. Therefore for anyone who's heard the huge differences good quality mains leads make this effect also manifests itself (to quite a staggering degree when the right cable is implemented) and used to power the PS-1200. I use a Transparent Reference mains cable for the purpose and it makes a significant difference to the deck's performance. Other top quality mains leads will have a similar effect. This fact should not be underestimated.

Secondly, along similar lines, when the arm is rewired you can have it terminated in a high quality phono junction box which, as with the PSU, allows the use of top-notch cables (interconnects) of your choice to maximise the integrity of the source signal. This is absolutely crucial as no information lost at this stage can be recovered further down the chain. The fact is the supplied piss-poor interconnects and plugs on the stock deck are totally strangling that signal and that's if the earlier piss-poor internal tonearm wire has left much of the signal intact in the first place!! The improvement you heard with the headshell leads is only a *tiny* fraction of what's to come when the internal wiring is improved and then high quality interconnects are used. The combined cost of the interconnects and mains lead I use is one and a half times the cost of the deck fully modified!! But hey, I know not everyone is as mad as me… Sounds f*cking amazing though :eyebrows:

Anyway, don't take this the wrong way, Richard, I'm not 'having a go' because of the observations you've made, they are perfectly fair, but I think it's important to realise (and for everyone else reading) that what you have is a long way off what a 1210 is capable of when all its 'foibles' have been attended to. Only when you have something like this in your possession will you be in a position to say that you know what an SL-1210 really sounds like and can accurately judge it against other T/Ts. What you have at the moment is a very good deck, and like you say, a bargain at £300. But to enter the realms of the genuinely special and hear the 1210 for the giant-killer that it truly is takes a lot more than replacing a headshell and a few wires ;)

I just felt it was important to keep things in perspective :smoking:

Oh and as for this from Mr Dunn:

The PL-71 in standard form will completely outclass a KAB modified 1210.

Well he wouldn't know because he's never heard a fully KAB modified 1210!! Doncha just hate people who make meaningless assertions on the basis of no practical experience! :ner:

Like I said, I'm up for a proper comparison anytime. I genuinely have no idea what the outcome would be but it sure will be fun to find out :)

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

05-07-2008, 03:37

Some of us never sleep :)

First of all, Marco, I'm sure your ultra fettled KAB 1210 is a stonking TT. I aspire in that direction myself, so I'm not disputing that.

Richard is making a comparison between unfettled PL-71 and unfettled SL1210. His point, as I see it, is that the Pionneer starts from better performance.

Those mods you've made to your KAB 1210 do add multiples to the orginal price, too! The power chord must be quite pricey, but moving on, have you ever tried a Missing Link Opus-F ?

cheers

Marco

05-07-2008, 09:42

Some of us never sleep :)

Christ, what were you doing up at that time? Are the porn channels in France good then? :lol:

;)

Richard is making a comparison between unfettled PL-71 and unfettled SL1210. His point, as I see it, is that the Pionneer starts from better performance.

Absolutely. I totally appreciate that. I merely wanted to reiterate how good the 1210 gets when fully 'fettled' in case Richard had lost sight of this - the performance of the deck when fully modified is in a different league.

Yes, an 'unfettled' PL-71 appears to be better than a stock 1210, but the point I was making is that there is much more scope to improve the 1210 than there is the PL-71, and when you do, the bar is raised by such a significant degree that it renders any previous comparison meaningless.

I think Richard needs to decide which way he wants to go. Does he spend money sending the PL-71's arm to Audio Origami to have rewired or does he do the same with the arm on the 1210 and go a bit further with it to hear what it can really do as I have outlined? Or does he just enjoy the PL-71 for what it is and concentrate on modifying the 1210? Personally, I would go for the last option as it limits the risk of wasted investment should the Pioneer fail at some point and at the same time provides an interesting reference point from which to judge a modified 1210 against a stock PL-71.

I'm just giving Richard as much information as possible to help him make that decision because I would hate him spending money modifying the PL-71 for him to later hear the likes of my fully 'tricked out' KAB 1210 and it outperforming the Pioneer (if that were the case). Or God forbid, the PL-71 going pop and all the money he's spent on it going down the drain... :(

It's all too easy to let the excitement of a new purchase cloud your better judgement. I'm just trying to give some balance :)

Those mods you've made to your KAB 1210 do add multiples to the orginal price, too! The power chord must be quite pricey, but moving on, have you ever tried a Missing Link Opus-F ?

The Transparent Reference Powerlink I use is £750. I've not tried Missing Link Opus-F, Peter, but I rate many of the Missing Link products. They're 'no nonsense' designs based on scientific analysis (which is somewhat unusual for a cable manufacturer) and they're well built and reasonably priced for the quality on offer.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

05-07-2008, 17:44

Christ, what were you doing up at that time? Are the porn channels in France good then? :lol:

;)

I do have cable TV, I don't watch porn, no really, I don't, well it's just research you see...;) Sometimes I just can't sleep, all kinds of stuff running through my head. Sometimes, too often, sad old git that I am, it's about hifi :mental::mental::mental:

I merely wanted to reiterate how good the 1210 gets when fully 'fettled' ...the performance of the deck when fully modified is in a different league.

You know, I only discovered the meaning of the word fettled this spring, at Denby Pottery ( The missus loves that stuff, I think it's good too), it's about trimming excess and getting everything in order.

the point I was making is that there is much more scope to improve the 1210 than there is the PL-71, and when you do, the bar is raised by such a significant degree that it renders any previous comparison meaningless.

... because I would hate him spending money modifying the PL-71 for him to later hear the likes of my fully 'tricked out' KAB 1210 and it outperforming the Pioneer (if that were the case). Or God forbid, the PL-71 going pop and all the money he's spent on it going down the drain... :(

There's always the possibility that the PL-71 is that good.

I was using Opus-f on an un XPS'd CDX with excellent results, NO perceivable loss of timing, and lower noise, more "relief" (French word, means detail/contrast). With a hydra and an XPS it still had great audiophile properties but the timing was a tad better with Naim cables.

But I'm looking forward to getting it back into service, it's actually a three tailed opus-F, with the Kab power supply and a yet to be selected phonostage.

As you predicted, LP playing has taken over. Have to force myself to listen to CDs and they sound good, too!

I got a Feickert guage today. I'll start a thread but I need to get some photos out of the camera, first. I used the Baerwald null points and that pushed the cartridge forward 5mm compared with the Technics guage!:confused:

scoobs

05-07-2008, 20:24

Mike

05-07-2008, 20:31

Nice!... Of course if you'd bought a proper cartridge in the first place.... :lolsign:

Marco

05-07-2008, 20:42

Hehe... Nice one, Scoobs :smoking:

And it even comes with a little badge now! That's bound to make all the difference ;)

I *know* exactly what you'll be getting now with your T/T/103 Pro/A23 set-up and I know how fantastic it will sound. When the 103 (especially the Pro) is optimised as such to maximum effect it sounds staggeringly good. The uninitiated who write it off quite simply don't know what they're missing... :eyebrows:

The A23 really opens up the top end, doesn't it, and gives oodles of gain, scale, and power way in excess of what is normally heard with a 103 - are you finding that too? :fingers:

How's the valve preamp doing, btw - are you happy with what that's doing now?

Marco.

scoobs

05-07-2008, 20:44

:lolsign: yeah I know, I do everything arse backwards.

Yup this one has a go faster badge. lol
Marco, it's coming together nicely, the 103pro is clean and articulate and just natural and expressive at the top end and in this iteration would quickly wipe the sneer from any 103 skeptics face i'm sure. Deep bass is plain scary frankly, the dogs are spooked by it, and go upstairs.

The amp is great, I was pre-occupied initially with bloody cables and hum problems, and listened through cd only that was poorly situated temporarily (next to the active speaker) with cheapo interconnects but now its settled in and sounding sweeeet.

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 16:27

Been on the verge of loosing my rag with analogue a few times of late, but we know it's worth it dont we, for when you finally nail it, it's spellbinding.

Took delivery of this yesterday...

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/indypepa/oneoff-002.jpg

...'kin hell, what a little box of tricks it is too. Not only has it somehow stopped the dirty great mains spikes and resultant pops from the fridge putting me on edge, it's given my 103 a shot of adrenalin straight into the heart. The Auditorium23 step up transformer is a dedicated denon 103 device, Marco very kindly loaned me his a while back, but I was in the middle of a hum problem and cable mess at the time and got nowhere with it really. Anyway at £375 it's seems pricey, but taken in context with the low price of the 103/variants and it's permanence, it's a killer product. I wont go into detail about the performance as it's been done far more eloquently elsewhere, but it has been the final piece of my analogue rig puzzle, and I dont think I can take it much further, so live, liquid and organic is it's contribution.

:smoking:

Nice phono stage scoobs, thankfully i have no need of such outboard devices as my pre-amp has one of the best sounding MC inputs stages i have listened to built in.:eyebrows:

As for the C/W, fair do`s it was marco`s idea for the original 1 piece type and a collective discussion with scoobs, marco and a couple of others that led to the 3 piece suite.

How could i patent 3 lumps of circular brass with screws in anyhow, its all been done before i seem to remember tho not in brass or if so plated.

I feel for Peter in France having to see the others posted on the same day already fitted and having to wait a week longer for his to land. :(

I have found that after making myself a new underslunky C/W for my RB250 and selling on the technoweight, brass equals more and tighter bass.:)

Was about to post a pic of it but not got the resizing issue sorted for this board as yet.

scoobs

06-07-2008, 17:00

Marco

06-07-2008, 17:16

I have found that after making myself a new underslunky C/W for my RB250 and selling on the technoweight, brass equals more and tighter bass.:)

That's an interesting observation, John. I guess that brass must have different resonant properties, or whatever... I put the difference mainly down to the added mass the brass C/W gave over the stock Techinics weight, of particular advantage for those using DL-103s. Interestingly, I think I'm right in saying that those using 103s have noticed the greatest difference.

Adding extra mass and allowing metal to metal contact between C/W and arm stub (the standard Technics weight has a plastic shim in place), and allowing the C/W to be positioned as close as possible to the arm's pivot point, was what prompted the idea of the brass C/W. Initially I approached Johnnie from Audio Origami but he had too much on so he put me in touch with John and the rest as they say is history :smoking:

Do you know roughly how many you've sold now, John? It must be about a dozen.

Somehow, though, despite my best efforts I can't get Johnnie to join AOS. I get the feeling it's to do with politics between TXN, Paul/Kenny, and the history between them and me. Shame, but such is life. I live in the hope that he will reconsider some day...

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

06-07-2008, 17:17

I feel for Peter in France having to see the others posted on the same day already fitted and having to wait a week longer for his to land. :(

Don't worry, I'll survive ;) , In fact I'm off on two weeks vacation and I hope the weights arrive before I leave. But, if not, I'll have fun and games when I get back.

I've got two weeks of golf and mountain air, no to mention a few smelly cheeses to look forward to :)

Mike

06-07-2008, 17:18

I wonder if a one piece brass CW would work on a Haddock? :scratch:

Don't see why not TBH!

Hmmm.. Just remembered my mate has a lath, and I know how to use it! :)

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 17:18

Thanks John, well I wanted to go full out toobs with my new phono/linestage, so this little box is now the last piece of the jigsaw.
Yes, nice one Marco for coming up with the idea and finding a fella to produce them! In all honesty John heavier these new 2/3 piece c/w's are worth their weight in gold never mind brass in upgrade terms, it takes a matter of seconds to hear the difference whether your arm is modified or not, and although I dislike the term, they are quite simply no brainers, and even better in a 'go faster' silver finish :smoking:

I could do them in stainless but the price would almost double, it takes much longer to machine, aluminium would not have enough mass, Silver Steel might be ok, its non magnetic and not so tough as stainless, will look into it.

How do i reduce the pixels in my pics without using photobucket ? my cybershot is set at "VGA" and this has always been ok for emails and other websites, my abilities with photoshop are limited, i know how to resize using the box thing pulled out but they are still too big, i tried with microsoft photo management and set the "webpage small" button but still to big :(

Mike

06-07-2008, 17:25

The brass ones could also be taken/sent to your nearest custom car/bike emporium to be chrome plated. Shouldn't cost too much for pieces that size?

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 17:26

Ah Ha. bleedin donut i am, just set my camera to email and it now gives me two pic one at 15kb and another at around 140.:doh:
Bugger thats too small

scoobs

06-07-2008, 17:34

I just sprayed mine with Wilkinson own brand stainless steel finish, less than 3 squids and matches the rest of the arm nicely, as if it were stock.

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 17:47

Try again.:confused:

Mike

06-07-2008, 18:27

Make it bigger :)

Marco

06-07-2008, 18:32

Aye, that's what your missus said last night :lol:

:ner:

Marco.

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 18:37

Persevering

Mike

06-07-2008, 18:37

And I obliged... Didn't hear your Missus complaining either! Ha! :ner:

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 18:43

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/colletclamp3002.jpg

:lol:

Mike

06-07-2008, 18:45

John,

If you don't want to use photobucket or imageshack (I use that) you can edit the piccy with all-sorts, even MS Paint.

For example, with 'Paint', open the image and then select 'edit' form the menu stuff at the top. Select 'stretch/skew' and in the boxes where there is a '% sign' type in (for example) 50 (as in %) in BOTH boxes and your piccy will be reduced by half. 25% will give 1/4 size etc.... Once you've got the piccy to the right size, post it in your, errr, post! :)

It's not the most elegant way of doing it, but it works!

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 18:53

Got it sussed now, i has forgotten how to use the bucket:doh:

My T/T has had a few changes.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/DSC02861.jpg

I have made these C/W`s "Bi-metal" the underslunky has two pieces of silver steel set in, the other was an experiment i did first.
I have tailored the mass so that with the cart i am using the C/W is as far forword as is possible without fouling the yoke.
IMO it has the edge on the michell T/W.

Marco

06-07-2008, 18:58

Looking good, dude. It's a veritable neon wonderland :)

Is that a little 'dust-picker-upper' in the background - did you make it yourself?

Marco.

Mike

06-07-2008, 19:10

I think I can see a problem with this TT. :eyebrows:

Marco

06-07-2008, 19:24

What?

You no likey 'disco' platters?

Marco.

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 19:44

If the "problem" is the led`s they can be off, or they can be blue or green and red, a mixture of each for the "purple" look.

The little striplight at the back is just for cuing. :)

TBO they only go on at night when i`m all chilled out in the dark :smoking:

If its not the lights then pray tell me, dont tell me i have my VTA wrong tho, its perfect.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/DSC02369.jpg.
Anyway enough of this its a technics thread.:)

Marco

06-07-2008, 20:00

Did you make that dust catcher thing yourself, John?

Marco.

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 20:02

Looking good, dude. It's a veritable neon wonderland :)

Is that a little 'dust-picker-upper' in the background - did you make it yourself?

Marco.

Its a dust bug and the best i have ever owned, i actually use it, it doesn`t "play" the vinyl like some but i do have to adjust speed slightly if i do lower it.
Its a "Rexon" made in france, hard to find and expensive if you do find one, Stan Beresford scored two and gave one to me for a job i did.

the head swops around for anti static or not, it has a brush and pad, has gimballed bearings:eyebrows: and a proper bearing in its base for the horizontal plane, i did change the C/W to brass to match the top of my collet clamp and Arm C/W tho, it was a black powder coated steel one originally.

All the others i tried including a transcriptors, Watts etc were gone within a week, but this ones been on for 3 months and will prolly be staying.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/DSC02866.jpg

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 20:14

He also got me this AT 6006a safety raiser, rare as hens teeth now, it was brand new in its box sealed, they make around £60 on ebay if you ever see one.

Its a godsend on a manual deck and works perfectly if set up correctly.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/6244_1.jpg

Mike

06-07-2008, 20:15

What?

You no likey 'disco' platters?

Marco.

Not at all Marco & John... The platter looks fantastic!

I've just always been of the opinion though, that they work much better with a record on them! :ner:

I see in later piccy's that the 'problem' has been rectified! :)

Marco

06-07-2008, 20:22

Its a dust bug and the best i have ever owned, i actually use it, it doesn`t "play" the vinyl like some but i do have to adjust speed slightly if i do lower it.
Its a "Rexon" made in france, hard to find and expensive if you do find one, Stan Beresford scored two and gave one to me for a job i did.

the head swops around for anti static or not, it has a brush and pad, has gimballed bearings:eyebrows: and a proper bearing in its base for the horizontal plane, i did change the C/W to brass to match the top of my collet clamp and Arm C/W tho, it was a black powder coated steel one originally.

All the others i tried including a transcriptors, Watts etc were gone within a week, but this ones been on for 3 months and will prolly be staying.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/DSC02866.jpg

Nice one, John. Have you tried wiring it up and sticking a cartridge on it? :lolsign:

Marco.

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 20:31

It would prolly work better than some of the wood diy arm i have seen on foums:eyebrows:

I could put that decased coral MC-81 (berylium cantilever and shibata tip) in my avatar on it.
It was 30yrs old and unused but its suspension had perished, so i took a hacksaw to it to get at the guts and heath robinson style repacked its suspension with that foam you use for stylus cleaning, it sounds better than a eroica lx and an ortofon mc15 super 11.:)

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 20:50

here you are.
http://cgi.ebay.com/HIGH-END-REXON-C-DUST-ARM-NEW-IN-BOX-NOS-N-R_W0QQitemZ310063329913QQihZ021QQcategoryZ48648QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Marco

06-07-2008, 21:05

Nice thing that :)

Marco.

thrunobulaxx

06-07-2008, 21:13

Nice thing that :)

Marco.

Yes, its nicely made and does the job.
whats happening with your c/w marco, do you stll need it altering, and which do you use now, the single in your avatar or 3 part, just pop it back if changes are needed.

Marco

06-07-2008, 21:18

Thanks, John, but it's cool now since I've fitted the new 18g Audio Techinca headshell (see the 'Headshell Rolling' thread). The extra mass has moved the goalposts somewhat, so the C/W is now nicely butted up against the pivot point using the two main weights :eyebrows:

Did you ever hear from your man on the boat, btw? If you've got any news on that front pop me a PM :)

Marco.

thrunobulaxx

07-07-2008, 16:44

Hi Marco, thats a good outcome then, just as well we didnt alter it after all.
When are you going to update your avatar then :eyebrows:

Havn`t seen the sailor in a long time, i guess he`s voyaging somewhere. sometimes i dont hear from for years at a time and just when i think i wont see him again he pops up.:confused:

Marco

09-07-2008, 14:15

thrunobulaxx

09-07-2008, 15:01

No worries mate. He'll turn up one day I'm sure. What I'm trying to do is to get hold of the old Mana forum database so we can add it to here. There are loads of guys who used to post there that I'm sure would be interested in AOS :)

Kevin must still have it somewhere I reckon.

Yes I must update my avatar. I could also do with some new system pics. I'll need to wait until Steve or someone else comes along with a digital camera, though!

Btw, just to run something past you quickly, would you be able to fit other tonearms to an SL-1210 just like Johnnie does?

It's far from definite yet, in fact I'm just toying with the idea, but apparently Pro-ject are thinking of importing high-mass 9" and 12" Ortofon tonearms with detachable headshells into the UK and I thought that I might try one on the 1210 and compare it to the Technics arm.

Marco.

Last time i saw him he was done with technology, so not so shure he has still got files, if he emails ata ll i will ask.

As for the technics question, i just recently made a armboard for "i should coco" on the wam, he has got himself a slate plinth and base and wanted a peculiar shaped armboard with cut out to mount an SME arm to fit the slate.
I`m shure he wont mind my posting a pic of it, you can see his plinth here.
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic.php?id=22884&forum_id=7&jump_to=475306#p475306.

This is his board posted off today.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/colletclamp3001-2.jpg

So anything is prolly possible.;)

Marco

09-07-2008, 16:26

Wow, that's a nice piece of metal-ito, amigo! :youtheman:

I doubt that was a quick 5 mins cut and buff job!

Good news about the arm. I'll be in touch if I need your services.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

10-07-2008, 09:08

With Mucho Thanks to John and his Garden shed ;) I've got one of dem shiny Three part Counterweights.

Those weights make a significant difference in bass performance of the Technics tonearm. The coffee table that sits in front of the sofa really rocks now. :lol:

I don't think that I’ve got everything adjusted right. I recently bought “Jim” from Jamie Liddell; it’s interesting because the drummer plays bass pedals at the same time as playing the drums. Yes, downright weird! Well, the bass pedals come across just fine. But, I can’t help feeling I’ve lost some top to bottom integrity in the sound and that the timing has gone off.

I think the extra counterweight mass has given a more stable platform for the cartridge, but the 1.8g tracking that I have been using for the mystery Grado is now too much, and I need to back off tracking weight.

John has already suggested that I should be using the big weight closest to the arm pivot.

What do you think?

Marco

10-07-2008, 09:28

Hi Peter,

I would first of all try what John has suggested, and also back off the VTF and set it to the minimum of the manufacturer's recommendation, perhaps even less if it works. If that doesn't fix it, it could be that you've got too much mass on the arm. I had a feeling that might be the case with the Grado. You need a decent MC to take full advantage of the brass C/W & Sumiko combination.

If it's the case you've got too much mass, in the short term, try using just the main C/W (if you can balance out your cartridge that way) and/or if possible using lighter screws/Allen bolts, etc, on your headshell. This should help reduce the arm's 'effective' mass to suit the Grado better.

Long term, you need to decide if the Grado is going to be your cartridge of choice, and if so, I'd return your C/W to John for him to shave off a few grams. If you're going to be using an MC in the near future I'd leave as is because I think the results you're getting will be entirely different with an MC at the helm.

Let us know how you get on :)

Marco.

scoobs

10-07-2008, 09:34

Peter
Glad to hear you're getting genuine results, not that we ever doubted it. :)
John is right, you need the greatest bulk of the weight (the big one) right up against the little stopper lug, and then use the smaller ones to fine tune the balance, if you have one, you may want to use the standard aux weight that screws into the back of the stub, this will give you even greater flexibilty. It does take a bit longer to nail the VTF, but the aching back will subside and you'll be rewarded big time.

:guitar:

Peter Stockwell

10-07-2008, 10:56

Hi Peter,

I would first of all try what John has suggested, and also back off the VTF and set it to the minimum of the manufacturer's recommendation, perhaps even less if it works.

I was going to back off some but not all the way to the min of the cartridge range. I don't actually know what that is, because I can't identify the cartridge. It was certainly only just out of the budget range in it's day, IIRC.

It could be that you've got too much mass on the arm...You need a decent MC to take full advantage of the brass C/W & Sumiko combination.

try using just the main C/W (if you can balance out your cartridge that way) and/or if possible using lighter screws/Allen bolts, etc, on your headshell. This should help reduce the arm's 'effective' mass to suit the Grado better.

I've been thinking that I had too much VTF, but the hints that you and John have thrown up will give me some room to move.

Long term, you need to decide if the Grado is going to be your cartridge of choice, and if so, I'd return your C/W to John for him to shave off a few grams. If you're going to be using an MC in the near future I'd leave as is because I think the results you're getting will be entirely different with an MC at the helm.

Can't bring myself to go down the MC route, don't want to go to the trouble of fancy MC phono stage and/or Step up devices. I'm convinced there's a suitable MM cartridge out there. I have a Nagaoka MP11 boron that's next up to bat, but there's a few others I want to try before deciding. I've been with Grados for almost 10 years. I also had a couple back in the day. I've got two Sumiko HS-12 now so I can do back to back comparisons relatively easily.

You need the greatest bulk of the weight (the big one) right up against the little stopper lug, and then use the smaller ones to fine tune the balance, if you have one, you may want to use the standard aux weight that screws into the back of the stub, this will give you even greater flexibilty. It does take a bit longer to nail the VTF, but the aching back will subside and you'll be rewarded big time.

What do you mean by the little stopper lug, is it what stops the C/W getting any closer to the pivot, or are you talking about the little plastic guide that serves to locate the standard weight ?

I had been using the aux weight before John's C/W came to town. Marco, maybe rightly, thinks that I've already got to much mass. The extra Sumiko mass and aux weight were good, perhaps Johns brass is too much, but I'm really inclined to think that this extra weight means that the cartridge does not have to be "sat" on so much. I'm going to take the VTF down to 1.5g, maybe 1.4g and give it a try. I reckon I can manage that tonight.

thanks for the input

Going away soon, so not much time to sort it. This C/W sounds like one of those mods where other adjustments have to be made.

thrunobulaxx

10-07-2008, 12:16

As i dont use the arm and have never actually seen one of these C/W`s on one, in the flesh, it ended up as a 3 piece affair for the flexibility after consutations with several users to take into account the different H/shells ? carts used and have a "one size fits all C/W, as fine tuning without having the whole thing in your hands is impossible.

i dont think its a case of too much mass in the C/W overall, just a matter of tuning it using the combinations possible, and it does not have to be right up to the stop if you cant balance it out using one of the combinations, but from the feedback i got it does seems preferable.

But when you think about it, very few tonearms have C/W`s that do butt right up when the manufacturers recomendation re VTF is set, in fact i fine tuned my own C/W to match the cart i`m using by gradually skimming it down untill it did go as far forword as possible this took many trips back and forth to the garage (not shed peter):)

If at some point you feel that you do need it reducing, i can just send over another piece the required mass to swop over one of them, no need to go shipping it back and forth across the channel.

From your vid this morning i think you should try setting the cart with a stevensen, i know they do hang out a bit when set properly but that did look very far out:scratch:

Peter Stockwell

10-07-2008, 12:22

I think you should try setting the cart with a stevensen, i know they do hang out a bit when set properly but that did look very far out:scratch:

Stevensen is the "standard" Technics alignment. Wot:confused:, you telling me that the lovely feickert alignment tool I snagged of ebay is no funkicg good? :lolsign:. I too don't like the letting it all hang out appearance. After the hols and a few :cool:, I'll get it sorted. Is there a downloadable Stevensen guage for the Technics, or at least for a 215mm arm ?

cheers

thrunobulaxx

10-07-2008, 17:47

Stevensen is the "standard" Technics alignment. Wot:confused:, you telling me that the lovely feickert alignment tool I snagged of ebay is no funkicg good? :lolsign:. I too don't like the letting it all hang out appearance. After the hols and a few :cool:, I'll get it sorted. Is there a downloadable Stevensen guage for the Technics, or at least for a 215mm arm ?

cheers

I`ve never seen a funking feickert so have no idea :scratch:

If it sounds better set that way i wouldn`t worry, it took me while to get used to looking at ortofon sticking out a bit, tho not as much as that unknown cart of yours.
Have you looked on the cartridge database online for it ?
I found my Coral there and the Zenn i once had, good website for rare and mystery carts.

Just been wondering how long it will be before KAB start making a 3 piece weight, or some other outfit with a CNC turret lathe.:(

Marco

10-07-2008, 17:52

John,

Just been wondering how long it will be before KAB start making a 3 piece weight, or some other outfit with a CNC turret lathe.

Well I'm in fairly regular contact with Kevin and he's, shall we say, all too aware of your C/W shenanigans ;)

Shall I put him off somehow? :lol:

Marco.

P.S Peter, I'll come back to you later.

Yomanze

10-07-2008, 18:03

scoobs

10-07-2008, 18:06

When I exchanged a few emails with Kevin (KAB) about various things including the counterweight, he seemed pretty indifferent THB. I'm sure he would be shocked if he was to hear one of our super modded 1210's with SDS, Achromat, Thru's special C/W and heavy headshell/leads etc. I know Marco would take things even further with uber mains jack etc.

thrunobulaxx

10-07-2008, 18:11

scoobs

10-07-2008, 18:15

Maybe you could knock-off some of these John:

http://home.comcast.net/~omaille/anumber1/Plate.jpg

E-mailed him (http://home.comcast.net/~omaille/anumber1/brass.html) but no reply. So we can all 'nude' our DL103s :) !!! Would look the nuts too with a brass C/W at the other end.

Nice!
There is a fella on ebay who nuded my 103, (and then built me a valve pre-amp) who is selling these (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOUNTING-BLOCK-FOR-DENON-DL-103-MOD-DL103-DL103C-DL103D_W0QQitemZ270253839852QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em270253839852&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318) alloy mounting blocks

I had a very interesting conversation with the fella at Expert Stylus Co the other day, they are going to be releasing their super 103 soon, with brass fixtures to facilitate better headshell coupling and mass together with a sapphire cantilever and fancy stylus. Aparently a Swiss recording engineer with a penchant for expensive Koetsu's (8k Jade) sampled one and got back on the phone and ordered 3, whilst waxing lyrical. I'm in the q for one of these bad boys :eyebrows:

thrunobulaxx

10-07-2008, 18:20

Nice!
There is a fella on ebay who nuded my 103, (and then built me a valve pre-amp) who is selling these (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOUNTING-BLOCK-FOR-DENON-DL-103-MOD-DL103-DL103C-DL103D_W0QQitemZ270253839852QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em270253839852&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318) alloy mounting blocks

I had a very interesting conversation with the fella at Expert Stylus Co the other day, they are going to be releasing their super 103 soon, with brass fixtures to facilitate better headshell coupling and mass together with a sapphire cantilever and fancy stylus. Aparently a Swiss recording engineer with a penchant for expensive Koetsu's (8k Jade) sampled one and got back on the phone and ordered 3, whilst waxing lyrical. I'm in the q for one of these bad boys :eyebrows:

I too had a a conversation with him :) i was making enquiries about my coral, he told me the story with the 103 too, he said they were doing something with Benz also.

Those mounting blocks are just bits of metal with holes in feel free to request one if you can get me the mass and sizes.:smoking:

Marco

10-07-2008, 18:24

When I exchanged a few emails with Kevin (KAB) about various things including the counterweight, he seemed pretty indifferent THB.

Ah, but you're not in the secret cabal ;)

I'm sure he would be shocked if he was to hear one of our super modded 1210's with SDS, Achromat, Thru's special C/W and heavy headshell/leads etc. I know Marco would take things even further with uber mains jack etc.

He knowz 'bout dem baby, he knowz... And he thinks I'm rather mad :eyebrows:

Kevin is also a MM cart fan. He's not big on coils, so different rules apply.

Marco.

thrunobulaxx

10-07-2008, 18:33

I`m just waiting for the didactics on another forum to post.

" counterweights! can they make a difference ?"

Lets hope there are some "true counterweight believers" there.:sofa:

Yomanze

10-07-2008, 18:37

I`m just waiting for the didactics on another forum to post.

" counterweights! can they make a difference ?"

Lets hope there are some "true counterweight believers" there.:sofa:

lol, hopefully some true physics believers too ;)

Will do a bit of research & try to get some measurements re the mounting plate. I'd like brass personally. :rock:

Yomanze

10-07-2008, 18:47

thrunobulaxx

10-07-2008, 18:48

lol, hopefully some true physics believers too ;)

Will do a bit of research & try to get some measurements re the mounting plate. I'd like brass personally. :rock:

The mass is 4.9 grams and the threaded holes are 2.5mm, bugger, now i have to buy another set of taps. i dont have half sizes.

Just need to know the size, it looks to be 1mm thick.

I also just looked at the alloy plate on ebay, do you see what he wants for it :lol:

I would not charge anything like that of course.:eyebrows:

Knock 5p off.:lol:

Yomanze

10-07-2008, 18:58

thrunobulaxx

10-07-2008, 19:10

Yeah, that's a lot of money for the alloy mounting plate for sure! So we've got the dimensions, so do you think 2.5mm thick as per the Italian dude would do it? Sorry for the off-topic guys, but lots of DL103 users in here anyway :P

If you mean the brass one from the link above i dont see any reference to thickness just its weight and hole size, but it looks around 1mm thick to me, the ebay alloy one is much deeper.
Its the width and depth i dont know, its thickness can then be worked out by the mass, which is known.

Yomanze

10-07-2008, 19:11

thrunobulaxx

10-07-2008, 19:19

Did you miss this post John? In Italian but with some photos. Looks good to me...

Yes i missed it our posts crossed i think, seems all 3 i have seen so far are different in thickness.

He states that the mass is 4.9 grams at that thickness of 2.5mm so making it thicker by a mm will make it around 6g i reckon.

will look into it.:)

Prince of Darkness

10-07-2008, 20:49

My nuded 103 is superglued to a suitably drilled 2p coin, with another similarly drilled coin between this and the arm to add additional mass. I made a point of using older bronze coins rather than the more recent copper plated steel (magnetic).

Mike

10-07-2008, 21:12

Blimey!... Audiophile currency. Who would have thought! :lolsign:

Peter Stockwell

11-07-2008, 02:17

I think you should try setting the cart with a stevensen, i know they do hang out a bit when set properly but that did look very far out:scratch:

I re-eyeballed a Stevenson alignment with the Technics guage; switched the fat weight and the medium weight, so that the fat weight is closest to the pivot. I also took tracking weight down to 1,4g. The fat and medium weights don't touch.

This is much better, all the good stuff I noted yesterday, maybe a shade less heft in the bass, but much better top to bottom homogenity.

If anbody recognizes this :

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/user34_Peter/IMG_1837_2.jpg

please let me know

Thanks for the hints

thrunobulaxx

11-07-2008, 08:10

Thats better, good to hear it sounds right, i feel that cart may be a "prestige" they did them in various colours from black/blue/red/gold/silver.if it is its VTF is 1.5g so you are about right.

Peter Stockwell

11-07-2008, 10:03

Thats better, good to hear it sounds right, i feel that cart may be a "prestige" they did them in various colours from black/blue/red/gold/silver.if it is its VTF is 1.5g so you are about right.

John,

I don't think its a prestige, although visually it really doesn't look a lot different. The "prestige" has an all black cartridge body, my "prestige gold" on the other tt has a goldy covered "can" to it. But in general the colour, blue/green/gold etc, referes to a couple of tiny dots on the stylus assembly.

cheers

thrunobulaxx

11-07-2008, 13:35

John,

I don't think its a prestige, although visually it really doesn't look a lot different. The "prestige" has an all black cartridge body, my "prestige gold" on the other tt has a goldy covered "can" to it. But in general the colour, blue/green/gold etc, referes to a couple of tiny dots on the stylus assembly.

cheers

I looked in the cart database for it and wondered if they were showing only B/W images for that cart.
Still a mystery then, have you asked grado ?
Have a nice holiday and dont get carried away with those wimmin in short skirts at the tournement :eyebrows:

vicdiaz

16-07-2008, 20:43

Lucky me I was given one for free!!!!!

Replaced the tonearm cable (damaged), sanded it (had seen better times...), painted it silver of course), and voilá!, fully working SL1200-MkII!

Gromit

17-07-2008, 18:24

If anbody recognizes this :

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/user34_Peter/IMG_1837_2.jpg

please let me know

Thanks for the hints

Hi Peter - I'm 99% sure the Grado you have there isn't a Prestige. They're all black (apart from the chrome/ali 'can' at the rear) for starters and have a slightly 'moulded/textured' side on the plastic front section of the cartridge body. Yours is an earlier one - I think it could be a G1 or G1+. A very good cartridge in its day - the range went from the cheap, and very lively FTE+ through the FCE+1, F3E+, F2+ F1+ to the G series. The FT & FC had grey bodies, the F3 and F1 had black.

I still have n FCE+1 and F2 sat in the drawer at home. My first ever 'proper' cartridge was an F3E+ :)

I'll take a quick pic of the FCE to see how similar it is to yours - the later Grados have a slightly different mounting lug arrangement too which allowed very slight de-coupling from the headshell (they even come/came with a small plastic shim to allow this).

Yomanze

20-07-2008, 13:46

Finally got round to printing off the Vinyl Engine Baerwald protractor: http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml as I noticed a bit of distortion on the inner tracks. Much better sound! Definitely a cleaner sound & the distortion has gone. Makes me feel a bit silly for not thinking about alignment sooner. On the other hand, I wouldn't get to enjoy the 'upgrade' otherwise ;)

scoobs

20-07-2008, 16:43

Yomanze

20-07-2008, 17:01

I printed and laminated this in work the other day whilst the boss wasn't watching.
I notice a marked difference between what the Technics plastic overhang widget suggests, and what the protractor suggests...about 3mm all said. I've gone with the protractor! Can't say I notice much difference in end of side, but that may be to do with the conical stylus profile.

I didn't have the Technics overhang widget :P My cartridge was flush at the end of the headshell, now it's 4mm forward. I notice a lot of difference during the end of the record, so must have not had it aligned correctly before. Oh, saw your advice RE the Heed Questar & will probably go for this myself with the Denon AU-300LC, so cheers, looks great & I do have to buy blind on this one!

scoobs

20-07-2008, 19:15

Yes, the Heed is a cracking value for money unit, also have a butchers at this Denon (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Denon-HA-500-MC-Head-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ160262658467QQcmdZViewItem?hash =item160262658467&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1308) head amp on ebay. Alternatively look into some valve phono amplification, I understand that the 103 loves toobs!

Marco

21-07-2008, 10:09

Yomanze

21-07-2008, 15:46

The sonic cocktail of the 103's mellifluous midrange and organic sounding bass, and toobs, is a heady one! :smoking:

No-one knows just how good this cartridge can sound until it's fitted to an appropriate (high mass) arm & headshell, on a high quality direct-drive T/T, loaded correctly including the optimum gain structure applied via a matched MC step-up tranny or head amp, and into the glowing bottles of an all-valve MM phono stage... Bliss! The sound is a million miles away from the thin sounding, sterile, overly analytical crap masquerading these days as 'hi-end' moving coil cartridges!

What on earth has happened to the tonality of modern moving coils?

Marco.

Speaking of mass, John is fabricating some phat-ass 4mm thick brass plates to 'nude' and mount my DL103 on. I'll be able to fit the 3rd counterweight and maybe move it forward, creating some serious mass!

This time next month, I'll be running a Denon step-up into a Heed Questar (with PSU). Funny how I've been building my entire setup around a cartridge! I think that the implemention is more important than 'solid state or tubes', both have their pros and cons.

Regarding my acrylic SRM mat, I rolled some really thin blu tack around the centre so it's stuck to the platter as there was some slippage. Thought I'd forewarn anyone using acrylic on the Technics platter. Blu tack as thin as you can get it works a treat though & acrylic is a very good dampening material.

Coming back to the DL103, a bit of reading creates some quite strong arguments for a conical stylus. Maybe the alnico magnets have a lot to say too for the DL103's "balls".

Prince of Darkness

21-07-2008, 15:57

Yomanze

21-07-2008, 16:56

They sound pretty good on a unipivot arm (diy carbon) and high quality idler-drive T/T (Garrard 401) as well:eyebrows:

Nice, any photos?

Prince of Darkness

21-07-2008, 18:55

Here's some pictures. The 401 is an early model, in great mechanical and cosmetic condition (apart from where a previous owner had a dustbug type device fitted:(). The plinth is a fairly basic diy job.
The arm is made from some carbon fibre tubing I had lying around. Wiring is Satcure.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/renforth/arm/P7211255.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/renforth/arm/P7211256.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/renforth/arm/P7211257.jpg

Beechwoods

24-07-2008, 20:51

Nice job. Your tonearm looks brilliant. My dad used to run a Garrard 301 with a handmade (balsa) tonearm. He still has the tonearm somewhere - he sold the deck not so long ago.

I particularly like your choice of vinyl too :)

Marco

25-07-2008, 23:31

Hey Kevin,

I like it, dude - love the improvisation! :smoking:

Have you ever compared it to a 1210?

Marco.

Yomanze

26-07-2008, 08:44

Yeah, very nice work & love the coinage!!!

Carbon fibre must mate well with the DL103 & dampening it.

Nice deck too :cool: I have been eying them up.

Prince of Darkness

27-07-2008, 19:46

Hey Kevin,

I like it, dude - love the improvisation! :smoking:

Have you ever compared it to a 1210?

Marco.

Never made that comparison, I suspect it would sound better than the standard 1210/1200. The modded versions, such as your KAB, might be another matter altogether. Personally, I believe that with the better idler and direct drive decks they tend to sound different to each other rather than clearly better or worse.
I should really get my finger out and get a driving license, then I could arrange to pop down to a chester or eggfest and swap ideas.
:gig::cool:

thrunobulaxx

29-07-2008, 18:23

Found some dimensions: "The dimensions of the platelet are: thickness = 2,5 milimeter, width = 18mm, length =21.5mm"

Maybe increase the thickness to 3 or 3.5mm??

http://www.audiocostruzioni.com/a_d/elettroniche/giradischi/testina-denon/testina-denon.htm

Neil went for a 4mm thick plate with a mass of 12.8g
Here it is on an Eroica i used for precise hole spacing, it will have s/s hex cap head bolts. i have some spare plate left over and can mill it down if anyone else doing the Denon 103 thing wants one, or one of lesser mass, pm me.

Hope you dont mind me posting a pic of your plate Neil. :)

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/103plate004.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/103plate003.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/103plate005.jpg

Marco

29-07-2008, 18:33

Looks great, John!

There are a number of 103 users coming to the forthcoming Chester fest. I think some of them may be interested in your brass plates. I'll spread the word, mate :)

Marco.

thrunobulaxx

29-07-2008, 18:53

Hi Marco, yes please i had to buy quite a large piece of brass plate and a bloody expensive set of taps (they get more expensive the smaller they are) and a couple more going out will get it back, if they want lower mass i can mill it down to 3 or 2mm.
Depends on the feedback from Neil when he has it mounted and that 3rd weight on.:)

Peter Stockwell

30-07-2008, 17:51

Had a chat with Kevin at KAB today, my bits (PSU, Cardas arm wand and odds & sods) are going to be sent out this week. Now I've got to find some steady hands for the tonearm refit.

scoobs

30-07-2008, 17:54

C'mon Marco..what of this Denon MC head-amp then?

Marco

30-07-2008, 18:06

Had a chat with Kevin at KAB today, my bits (PSU, Cardas arm wand and odds & sods) are going to be sent out this week. Now I've got to find some steady hands for the tonearm refit.

Way hey, nice one Peter. Bet you can't wait :)

Did you have a nice holiday, btw?

Nick,

It's not arrived yet, mate. I've spoken to the chap so I should have it either tomorrow or Friday. I nabbed it for £102, so not too bad considering how rare they are.

It'll be interesting to hear how it compares to the A23. I used to use a Lentek (battery operated) active head amp with the 103 in the 80s and have fond memories of the sound it produced. I also like the variable gain on the Denon, so we'll see how it goes. Full review will appear here!

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

31-07-2008, 07:13

Marco,

The stuff has been on order for about a month but it's been held up, mostly, because of administrative reasons. Yes, I do want to get the stuff ASAP. I reckon I can handle fitting the PSU lead. Kevin told me it's a question of "snipping" the output from the Transformer and substituting the PSU cable before the Bridge rectifier of standard Technics PS. It's two solder joints.

The tonearm refit I'm more anxious about. I've ordered the 5 turret plate and the phono plate for the exterior. However, I think I'm going to visit a local cable shop that does a range very well regarded cables in France http://www.hifi-cables.fr/Accueil_Fr.htm . And see what they suggest from the tonearm base to the phono stage. They might even do the soldering for me? I'll have to see. Kevin recommends using a temperature controlled solder gun. I don't really want buy more kit to be used only once, There's no room for a workshop in our 2 bedroom flat.

In the meantime the SL1210 is giving a lot of pleasure. I really think that I'll have to wait to get the "right" cartridge until the tonearm rewire is installed. My guess is that the Cardas wire must give a clearer more weighty top end. That's the only thing I miss from the previous set up, I can't help feeling HF extension is curtailed, and as such, robbing the system of that extra feeling of life.

Cheers

Marco

31-07-2008, 10:49

Good news, Peter, that things are imminent.

I admire you for going the D.I.Y route with the KAB mods. I'm just too much of a lazy arse and frankly a danger to myself with a soldering iron to contemplate doing things that way! I'm also an impatient f*cker and simply want new gear to work immediately. That's why I ordered the whole lot from KAB, turntable as well, with all the mods already fitted so when it arrived I was ready to play music as soon as possible :smoking:

However undoubtedly there's more satisfaction with the way you're doing it. I think your idea to get Hi-fi Cables in France to do the soldering is a good one if you're not confident enough or have the right facilities to do it yourself. Make sure though you use Cardas cable as IME it's the best for the job. I've heard the likes of VDH, Kimber and Moth before and IMO none of it is as neutral sounding (which is what you want) as Cardas. So buy a cable loom from Kevin and get the French chaps to fit it.

Your point about HF extension and 'life' is spot on. The stock wiring serves to muddy the top end and make things sound thick and stodgy. Rewiring with Cardas opens the whole sound up and reveals oodles more musical detail as well as tightening up the bass and increasing extension. It's quite frankly a massive difference and one of the main reasons (separate PSU aside) why people can't say that they've heard a 1210 in any way properly until they've listened to one with a rewired, fluid damped tonearm.

Quite simply, you don't hear the benefits of the awesome motor unit properly until that's done.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

31-07-2008, 11:22

It's quite frankly a massive difference and one of the main reasons (separate PSU aside) why people can't say that they've heard a 1210 in any way properly until they've listened to one with a rewired, fluid damped tonearm.

Quite simply, you don't hear the benefits of the awesome motor unit properly until that's done.

Many people can't be arsed to take a non standard route, that's why so many still have LP12s ... :lolsign:, only slightly kidding. Seriously tho', there's a lot to be said about having a standard unit that works perfectly out of the box.

If I'd known how good a standard SL1210 is, then I may well have decided to go for a fully KAB'ed 1210. As it is, I'm interested to know what each mod brings. So when the bits and pieces arrive I'll get the PSU going ASAP, the tonearm is going to be a more protracted process (nice, pun, ok maybe not;)). However switching the tonearm means that the existing one I can get done by J7, with maybe a one piece cable all the way to the phono plugs. Then I can reswitch, If I'm crazy enough :).

I'm looking at footers, What did you say about the isanoes ?

cheers

Marco

31-07-2008, 21:40

Hi Peter,

Sounds good. You're going to be one happy bunny when everything's finished, trust me ;)

The Isonoes are great, and definitely improve the sound although in a more subtle sense than major upgrades such as adding the PSU and rewiring the arm... Mmm…let me qualify that, that's in a "subtle sense" on Phase 17 Mana! Results may be more noticeable in a set-up with less vibration/resonance control in place.

Apart from that, in a purely aesthetic sense, they look the absolute business and give a subtle 'bouncy' suspension to the deck. All-in-all I think they finish the deck off nicely and I can't think of a similar product which looks anywhere near as good.

Keep us posted of your shenanigans - with pictures! :)

Marco.

thrunobulaxx

31-07-2008, 22:35

Neil went for a 4mm thick plate with a mass of 12.8g
Here it is on an Eroica i used for precise hole spacing, it will have s/s hex cap head bolts. i have some spare plate left over and can mill it down if anyone else doing the Denon 103 thing wants one, or one of lesser mass, pm me.

Hope you dont mind me posting a pic of your plate Neil. :)

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/103plate004.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/103plate003.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/thrunobulaxx/103plate005.jpg

As i suspected 4mm with 12g mass is a bit much, unless you have one of the 3 pieces of the C/W made heavier, but i will let yomanzi tell you about that:eyebrows:

Other than to say he`s going to get sorted with some serious mass as he is keeping the plate on, and reported back its a big improvement with the stripped down and plated 103 C/W loaded with blue tac untill the heavier piece comes :)

I`m getting some 2mm plate for those less enthusiastic about that much mass ;)

Marco

31-07-2008, 22:39

Excellent stuff, John. Make sure Mike sees these pics by posting them on his 'Slow Birth of a Phono Stage' thread in the D.I.Y room.

I think he should get one made for the AT-33PTG to use in his Hadcock, but one of the lower mass options.

Marco.

Mike

01-08-2008, 08:42

Don't bother, I've seen the piccy's!

Yes please, I'd like to try a 2mm one. :)

Marco

01-08-2008, 09:05

Smart move, Mikey.

It'll look the biz, too.

How about a pic of the DP3000? A nice close-up shot in situ with the rest of your system :)

I'm not sure if you've posted a picture of your full system before.

Marco.

Yomanze

01-08-2008, 09:35

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u225/decisively_unsure/dl103nuded2.jpg

VTA & alignment not done properly, as John pointed out, but these are minor adjustments compared to other stuff IMO. I'll need to finger cue if I drop the VTA down, as the height of the cart means that the arm lifting mechanism doesn't clear the vinyl. This is one huuuuge upgrade, simply more air, definition, DETAIL, much more 'holographic', better from top to bottom really. Was a bit worried about the mass & do need heavier weights, to my surprise, but I'm now really glad I went for 4mm. They say the DL103 likes mass... :P Definitely recommend a max of 2mm to others, my custom C/Ws are very heavy as is!

Yomanze

01-08-2008, 09:37

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u225/decisively_unsure/armblutacked.jpg lol...

scoobs

01-08-2008, 10:12

Crikey Yom, a smurf has shat over your c/w mate!

Glad to hear your getting the improvement, nice one. The 103 sure does like to be 'sat on' somewhat.

thrunobulaxx

01-08-2008, 12:22

Crikey Yom, a smurf has shat over your c/w mate!

Glad to hear your getting the improvement, nice one. The 103 sure does like to be 'sat on' somewhat.

Smurf richards, love it.

I eyed up that blob last night and using my arm put what looked like a similar size plop on the scales, it came to approx 20g, there is some serious mass on that arm;)

Marco

01-08-2008, 21:31

Guys, I always said this mass thing was important with 103s :)

No wonder detractors think it's crap - none of them will have ever heard one set-up properly!

Scoobs, the Denon head amp is arriving tomorrow. You'll be first to know how it sounds...

Marco.

P.S Smurf shit only turns blue with diarrhea :eyebrows:

StanleyB

01-08-2008, 22:54

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u225/decisively_unsure/dl103nuded2.jpg

Looking at that headshell assembly as a whole, it just struck me that a bit more resolution could be extracted from it. I was thinking along the lines of bolting the extra plate down to the headshell with a separate screw. At the moment the plate relies on its stiffness and vibration damping from the force exerted by the top of the cartridge against the plate, and then on to the bottom of the headshell. The headshell grooves for the cartridge are long enough for them to be able to accept an additional screw and nut. The extra weight of the screws and nuts could be offset by using a 2g or 3g plate instead.
Using such a modification would allow you to bolt down the plate with greater force.

thrunobulaxx

02-08-2008, 09:37

Looking at that headshell assembly as a whole, it just struck me that a bit more resolution could be extracted from it. I was thinking along the lines of bolting the extra plate down to the headshell with a separate screw. At the moment the plate relies on its stiffness and vibration damping from the force exerted by the top of the cartridge against the plate, and then on to the bottom of the headshell. The headshell grooves for the cartridge are long enough for them to be able to accept an additional screw and nut. The extra weight of the screws and nuts could be offset by using a 2g or 3g plate instead.
Using such a modification would allow you to bolt down the plate with greater force.

Hi Stan, the cart is fixed to the plate with araldite in this 103 mod, there are no nuts, the plate is threaded and bolted to the h/shell very firmly as is.
Someone enquired about a plate for an Ittok h/shell and AT cart, this wont be glued on as its just for extra mass and not part of a cart mod as such, your idea may be usefull in this instance, i have another person wanting to mount a plate on top of the h/shell using its threaded holes instead of nuts.
I`m going to change my handle to "thrumassulaxx":eyebrows:

Yomanze

02-08-2008, 09:53

Ah, John got there first, here's a pic anyway:

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u225/decisively_unsure/dl103under.jpg

thrunobulaxx

02-08-2008, 10:01

Ah, John got there first, here's a pic anyway:

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u225/decisively_unsure/dl103under.jpg

Thats a good pic Neil, i have just noticed this topic now has its own thread "modding a 103" in analoge art.

Marco must have thought it was taking over his technics thread:lolsign:

Yomanze

10-08-2008, 13:51

Peter Stockwell

10-08-2008, 17:49

Hey guys, after playing around with Baerwald alignment for a while, I actually noticed more distortion on the inner tracks. I would def. have a play around as YMMV, but the standard Stevenson alignment seems to be the way forward for the SL1210 with stock tonearm. Not that I have a choice anyway now since adding a big hunk of brass ;)

John, the pic above was just about spot-on with Stevenson alignment! How strange.

I went back to Stevenson, more or less. But you can make your own decision about where you want the inner null point to be. You need to have an idea about where yje last tracks end on your vinyl. Today, with double LPs most of the time for a CD equivalent they're quite far out from the centre.

But that 60s/70s/80s is a different story.

Peter Stockwell

19-08-2008, 14:07

My Kab PSU, tonearm rewire have landed, now to get them fitted...

Marco

19-08-2008, 16:52

Way hey... Nice one, dude. Now the fun begins! :gig:

We expect some nice pictures and a full write-up, of course...

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

19-08-2008, 18:41

Way hey... Nice one, dude. Now the fun begins!

We expect some nice pictures and a full write-up, of course...

Marco.

In due course. The PS fit looks easy, even for me. The tonearm more complicated. I need a US mains plug, tho. Coz, The original power cable has to attach to the PS for the on/off switching. Of course my power cable is 2 pin continental, that doesn't fit the Kab "Sense" socket.

cheers

Marco

19-08-2008, 18:58

That's interesting, Peter. With my deck/PSU all the cables/plugs I needed came with it - all were 'UK-friendly' and ready to go!

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

19-08-2008, 19:30

That's interesting, Peter. With my deck/PSU all the cables/plugs I needed came with it - all were 'UK-friendly' and ready to go!

Marco.

I've got a Euro mains cable but there's a socket on the back of the PSU, that's labelled "sense" or something like that. The original power cable goes in there so that you can switch the deck on & off as before. There's a cable that takes 30v to the deck that goes in a little socket at the bottom right of the back of the PS.

regards

Peter

Marco

19-08-2008, 20:11

Peter,

When I got my deck there was a flat black & white cable running from the back of the deck (connected internally) fitted with a flat-pinned two-pin plug on the end that connects to the 'sense' socket on the back of the KAB PSU, and a small thin grey DC cable supplied which connects on one end to the underneath of the deck and the other to the 30V DC socket on the back of the PSU.

On top of that, a good quality mains lead fitted with a 13A plug was supplied to plug the PSU into the mains.

There was no need for me to find any separate plugs or whatever so I don't know what's going on there :scratch:

Maybe it's different when KAB supplies the stuff separately for self-assembly?

Marco.

Marco

21-08-2008, 08:21

Have you seen this message, Peter? :)

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

21-08-2008, 08:55

there was a flat black & white cable running from the back of the deck (connected internally) fitted with a flat-pinned two-pin plug on the end that connects to the 'sense' socket on the back of the KAB PSU,

That's the "original" US two pin mains lead and plug.

and a small thin grey DC cable supplied which connects on one end to the underneath of the deck and the other to the 30V DC socket on the back of the PSU.

That's the cable that I have to solder internally, it doesn't look too difficult, but I don't have a couple of calm hours to do it yet. It connects to the Bridge rectifier after the Technics transformer. The deck doesn't even have to be fully dismantled to do it.

Indeed, there's a decent mains cable with the PSU, no fuses here teehee :lol:

Your deck is a 110v 60Hz model, anybody that buys a KAB psu in the states doesn't have to ask themselves any questions. Kevin got back to me about the socket and I don't actually need to connect the "sense" socket for averything to work. I'm going to the US in december, but maybe a US based member would be kind to send me a 2 pin plug?

cheers

Marco

21-08-2008, 09:13

That's the "original" US two pin mains lead and plug.

So your deck didn't come already fitted with this? If not, I don't understand why because that's the connector you need to plug into the 'sense' socket on the PSU...

Sorry for being dense but I'm still trying to get my head around what's going on...

That's the cable that I have to solder internally, it doesn't look too difficult, but I don't have a couple of calm hours to do it yet. It connects to the Bridge rectifier after the Technics transformer. The deck doesn't even have to be fully dismantled to do it.

With mine there is a DC socket the same as on the KAB PSU on the underneath of the deck, so all you do is plug it in.

Indeed, there's a decent mains cable with the PSU, no fuses here teehee :lol:

LOL. Well, as you know, I use a hard-wired Transparent Reference Powerlink mains lead (which costs nearly as much as the deck itself) - that doesn't have any fuses either :eyebrows:

The supplied lead is just a spare.

Your deck is a 110v 60Hz model, anybody that buys a KAB psu in the states doesn't have to ask themselves any questions.

Is it? I wouldn't know. All I know is that I specified the UK mains version (220v) KAB PSU so that it would work on UK mains. How can the deck be 110v and the PSU 220v? :scratch:

Kevin got back to me about the socket and I don't actually need to connect the "sense" socket for averything to work. I'm going to the US in december, but maybe a US based member would be kind to send me a 2 pin plug?

I still don't understand why you weren't supplied with the right plug in the first place... :confused:

What came with the deck?

Marco.

scoobs

26-08-2008, 20:06

I've only gone and trashed my 103pro haven't I... 'kin knuckle dragging neanderthal that I am - tried to clean it having had a few tinnies. It's off to Expert Stylus for a re-build now.

Marco, interesting to read the thoughts on the back of the SP10 v's KAB 1210 comparison, the little brother did itself proud! How are you getting on with the SUT / head amp, which one has been on duty lately?

Marco

26-08-2008, 21:19

Feck what a nightmare, mate! Well I suppose you were going to have it rebuilt anyway with a new stylus profile...

Let me know how you get on :)

Yep, little brother certainly did do himself proud. There will be more on this later on the Chesterfest thread once Steve posts the pictures.

I also had some other interesting discoveries at Chester regarding mats and the A23 versus the HA-500 head amp thanks to the help of other experienced ears, so stay tuned!

Marco.

scoobs

26-08-2008, 21:28

Cool [rubs hands in anticipation]

Peter Stockwell

27-08-2008, 07:29

So your deck didn't come already fitted with this? If not, I don't understand why because that's the connector you need to plug into the 'sense' socket on the PSU...

Sorry for being dense but I'm still trying to get my head around what's going on...

:) Marco's a technophobe, innit ? :)

I bought a 2nd hand SL1210 euro spec in France, it comes with a 2 pin euro plug, in the UK it would have a 3 pin MK plug. It's got the transformer wired to accept 230v (220 to 250 actually) and then pass a reduced voltage to the internal technics PSU. Normally, a bridge rectifier converts the positive and negative cycles of AC to DC. After this there's regulation and smoothing to take out the now 100Hz ripple on the DC. The Kabusa PSU output connection has to be after the transformer and before the bridge rectifier. The bridge rectifier will make sure that the DC output of the KAB PSU is the "right" way up for the rest of the electronics.

With mine there is a DC socket the same as on the KAB PSU on the underneath of the deck, so all you do is plug it in.

That's very nice, and is a "value addition" of the KAB modified SL1210 :cool:

All I know is that I specified the UK mains version (220v) KAB PSU so that it would work on UK mains. How can the deck be 110v and the PSU 220v? :scratch:

That's easy, when you plug your PSU into the KAB1210 your supplying DC to the electronics after the original transformer. So the issue of 110v or 220v no longer arrises. Very often, kit has the same transformer for 110v or 220v, however the transformer has 2 sets of 110v windings. They're connected in parallel for 110v and in series for 220v. Most kit is easy to convert between the 2 (japanese market kit is different, tho', usally it's 100v)

I still don't understand why you weren't supplied with the right plug in the first place... :confused:

What came with the deck?

The deck has everything it needs in standard form for a Euro model. The KAB psu was developed as a US market product. The KAB PS1200 works perfectly with a KAB'd 1200, coz as I pointed out it's easy to switch between 110v and 220v and the KAB 1200s take DC into the very nice KAB socket that you have. The original lead then completes a low voltage (5v) sensor circuit that detects when you've opened or closed the on off switch. Kevin has told me that bare wires in the Sense socket will work just as well.

So any of this help ?

cheers

Marco

27-08-2008, 08:54

Yep, all is now clear. I'd forgotten you had bought a second-hand 1210, and thought you had ordered a new one from KAB :doh:

Hence my being perplexed at why you didn't have all the right connectors already fitted!

I blame senile dementia :lolsign:

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

27-08-2008, 08:56

Yep, all is now clear.
I blame senile dementia :lolsign:

Marco.

wot, Margaret Thatcher ?;)

Marco

27-08-2008, 09:05

Hehe... :eyebrows:

So what's the current state of play on your fitting of the KAB mods?

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

27-08-2008, 11:06

So what's the current state of play on your fitting of the KAB mods?

Marco.

On hold, I live in a small appartment and I have visitors. Sunday, I'm going to have a closer a look at what I'm going to call KAB stage 1, fitting the power supply cable. As I said it looks pretty easy from the pics supplied with the PSU. It'll stay in stage 1 for a while, I think i'm going to get J7 to fit the KAB tonearm wand and attach a suitable phonocable.

Peter

Marco

27-08-2008, 15:09

Sounds like a smart move, Peter. I bet you're like a kid in a sweet shop. Keep us posted as and when things begin to happen :)

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

31-08-2008, 08:56

Sounds like a smart move, Peter. I bet you're like a kid in a sweet shop. Keep us posted as and when things begin to happen :)

Marco.

The SL1210 is in the operating theatre :)

Peter Stockwell

31-08-2008, 10:30

The SL1210 is out of surgery, and recovering nicely, pics later.

Peter Stockwell

31-08-2008, 13:13

My now stage 1 KAB Technics SL1210 Mk2 up and running after surgery :-

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/user34_Peter/Kab%20Stage%201/IMG_2094.jpg

It turns on as before via the "sense" socket on the back of the PS1200, it accepts the orginal mains wire. It's bare ended, I need a US power plug, which I'll get when possible.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/user34_Peter/Kab%20Stage%201/IMG_2092.jpg

Listening impressions?

Where did the subwoofer come from :lol: !! and where did that renewed treble clarity come from too!

:gig:

scoobs

31-08-2008, 13:57

Great stuff Peter, excellent pictures that will be a helpfull resource to anyone looking to go a similar route. The fluid damper will be a walk in the park now after that!

Marco

31-08-2008, 14:33

Superb pictures, Peter! Like Nick says, they will be a very useful resource for other people contemplating doing the same thing. As such, I think I'll move them to a separate thread and make it a sticky :)

Listening impressions?

Where did the subwoofer come from !! and where did that renewed treble clarity come from too!

I told you the PSU was crucial :eyebrows:

Wait till you add the fluid damping trough and Cardas tonearm cable. All in all, it will become a different turntable!

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

31-08-2008, 15:53

Superb pictures, Peter! Like Nick says, they will be a very useful resource for other people contemplating doing the same thing. As such, I think I'll move them to a separate thread and make it a sticky :)

I told you the PSU was crucial :eyebrows:

Wait till you add the fluid damping trough and Cardas tonearm cable. All in all, it will become a different turntable!

Marco.

Nick & Marco,

I know it's a simple job, but I was a bit leary.

The tonearm wand rewired with Cardas I have, but I don't feel up to fitting that. I'm going to have J7 fettle it. The cardas wires are extra fine, and I really don't want that job screwed up. I can unfit and refit the tonearm assembly I'm sure.

Thanks

Marco

31-08-2008, 16:31

Peter Stockwell

31-08-2008, 16:40

Peter,

I think the way you've done it is much better. You get to hear the incremental benefit of each modification, which is a much more fun and educational experience.

You're doing the right thing getting J7 to do the arm rewire. As you'll soon hear, you'll have a very special deck on your hands, something which will be able to compete with the best - and I mean THE best!

Marco.

YIKES!! I have Awaken - Yes on the deck now, and it's make me hairs stand up right down to me bum! :gig: That's never happened before.

Awaken has to be one of themost dificult to reproduce tunes any where recorded. It's got Stygian organ pipes as well as kitchen sinks :lol: , seriously there's shitloads going on.

cheers

Marco

31-08-2008, 17:48

Nice one, Peter. If you're hearing more from your music that's always a good sign :smoking:

Btw, while you're in contact with Johnnie ask him to give you a small tube of his 'extra-slippy' bearing oil. You'll be able to see where it goes since removing the platter - that makes a noticeable improvement. You'll have to flush out the old stuff, though. You may as well get that done, too, and dot all the 'i's and cross the 't's!

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

31-08-2008, 18:23

Btw, while you're in contact with Johnnie ask him to give you a small tube of his 'extra-slippy' bearing oil. You'll be able to see where it goes since removing the platter - that makes a noticeable improvement. You'll have to flush out the old stuff, though. You may as well get that done, too, and dot all the 'i's and cross the 't's!

Marco.

Interesting, is it like the GT85 that Slatedeck reccomends for the "tight" Garrard bearings ?

Marco

31-08-2008, 18:38

Have a look, dude. Scroll down and check out the 'Booster Oil':

http://www.audioorigami.co.uk/F_Sale/ForSale.htm

Trust me, it works!

Marco.

Marco

31-08-2008, 18:48

muffinman

06-09-2008, 16:35

Hi all,
new member to the site and recently aquired a new 1200 to replace a gorbe with a transfi evo arm.
first impressions are excellent but there is an obvious lack of air to proceedings.
I always knew i would have to upgrade various components, primarily the arm wire and mat. i'm currently using the renowned rubber jobbie.
my requests for info are thus:
am i better off getting a full j7 rewire int+ext or going the KAB route with arms,junction boxes etc? i don't mind a bit of soldering, i just don't like destroying new kit! does anyone know how much a j7 rewire would cost compared to the KAB route off hand?
i see that the sds mat gets most thumbs up around here although at the price the srm appears worth a look.
i'm currently using a stock headshell and C/W so these are also on the shopping list
which is the greater improvement arm rewire or psu?
finally, how much is all this going to cost me? i want to keep my initial spend to around £300. dissapointingly i contacted emmodd ref his sale but he appears to have 'gone dark' - if anyone knows if he has actually sold his deck please let me know so i can start looking elsewhere.
many thanks in advance

Gareth.

technics1200/ortofon samba/WDph3s/WAD6550

Marco

08-09-2008, 06:10

Hi Gareth,

Welcome to the forum :)

The "lack of air" you're experiencing is most likely down to the poor quality of the standard tonearm cable, which can lend a 'grey' colourless quality to the sound. Rewiring the arm with good quality Cardas cable completely cures this.

Mat-wise, the best thing you can do is buy an SDS Isoplatmat which removes platter ringing and provides a 'solid base' from which to use the mat of your choice to interface with the record. The Isoplatmat is not best suited to this, so here I would use either the stock thick rubber mat on top or a Funk Firm Achromat.

I'm sure J7 could do just as good a job as KAB with rewiring the arm, so that's probably the way to go, and then buy the fluid damper from KAB, which adds silicon damping to the arm and increases its performance significantly. I'm pretty sure this will also be the most cost effective route, too.

The PSU upgrade has without doubt the biggest effect on the deck's performance, followed by the arm rewire. Adding the separate PSU has a fundamental effect of the deck's performance that no other upgrade can emulate - see Peter's (User 34) comments on this in his separate thread on the subject.

As for how much it is going to cost you in total, the KAB prices are clear on the website (fluid damper, PSU), for rewiring you will have to contact J7, and for mats do a search and you'll find all the relevant prices.

If there's anything else I can help with let me know.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

08-09-2008, 11:07

am i better off getting a full j7 rewire int+ext or going the KAB route with arms,junction boxes etc? i don't mind a bit of soldering, i just don't like destroying new kit! does anyone know how much a j7 rewire would cost compared to the KAB route off hand?
i see that the sds mat gets most thumbs up around here although at the price the srm appears worth a look.
i'm currently using a stock headshell and C/W so these are also on the shopping list
which is the greater improvement arm rewire or psu?
finally, how much is all this going to cost me? i want to keep my initial spend to around £300.

Gareth,

Welcome to the Technics SL1200/SL1210 bandwagon ;). I have to agree with Marco that the PS1200 is the single most significant upgrade you can do for the Teccie. I bought the PS1200/Cardas Rewired Armwand/Cardas Headshell wires and a few other bits and bobs from Kabusa. In retrospect, I'd say that getting the PS1200 and the Cardas headshell wires from Kevin (KAB) are the only essential buys. Be aware that when importing from the US you'll pay a c. 25% premium to pay for your roads and hospitals, etc.

I'm going to get J7 to fit the Cardas wand I bought from Kevin, because the Cardas wires are extremely fine, and I don't have a steady hand, nor an impeccable Solder technique. Contact Johnnie for a price for an arm rewire, but I think you'd be better off doing things this way. When I'm done I'll have a standard technics arm wand doing nothing, but I can at least sell it on.

So, in short, at less than £300 get the PS1200, and a sumiko headshell.

regards

Mike

08-09-2008, 15:50

dissapointingly i contacted emmodd ref his sale but he appears to have 'gone dark' - if anyone knows if he has actually sold his deck please let me know so i can start looking elsewhere.
many thanks in advance

He advertised his deck on the WD forum also. He has posted on there that the deck is now sold.

http://www.wduk.worldomain.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4534

Cheers...

muffinman

09-09-2008, 12:58

Thanks for the replies.

emmodd did get in touch - shame that. it does look like i'll get get the arm sorted and the psu at the same time. i'm trying to save a few quid on it though (every little helps after all). what i may do is get the cardas arm and plate from KAB and then hopefully get j7 to put it all together depending on how i feel about the undertaking. i'm waiting on a Kab shipping quote but the flat rate is such that a cardas arm and headshell leads is £110. j7 quotes £130 for the same (99 for int re-wire, 50 for ext, 30 for headshell). i will of course have a spare arm to sell which, even if it makes a tenner (combined with the re-wire saving),will pay for a sumiko headshell. swmbo has upped my budget to £500 even though 'i won't be able to hear a difference' :ner:

i'll keep you posted on progress and findings

Peter Stockwell

09-09-2008, 18:36

Thanks for the replies.

i'm waiting on a Kab shipping quote but the flat rate is such that a cardas arm and headshell leads is £110. j7 quotes £130 for the same (99 for int re-wire, 50 for ext, 30 for headshell). i will of course have a spare arm to sell which, even if it makes a tenner (combined with the re-wire saving),will pay for a sumiko headshell. swmbo has upped my budget to £500 even though 'i won't be able to hear a difference' :ner:

i'll keep you posted on progress and findings

Looks like we're headed down the same path ;)

cheers

Mike

09-09-2008, 19:12

Whats the difference betweem the Mk2 and Mk5 ???

Does this look like a good deal or what?

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/228

Peter Stockwell

09-09-2008, 19:27

Whats the difference betweem the Mk2 and Mk5 ???

Does this look like a good deal or what?

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/228

It's a very decent price. Mechanically no difference between a mk2 & a mk5, only speed adjustment difference and no hinges on the mk5, maybe some other trivial stuff, like a push button reset on the pitch control.

regards

muffinman

09-09-2008, 21:14

Whats the difference betweem the Mk2 and Mk5 ???

Does this look like a good deal or what?

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/228

i got mine from hughes in norwich 4 weeks ago -http://www.hughesdirect.co.uk/productlist.php?cda=productlist&search=technics[ it was out of stock then also. they had a few on the books that had not made it onto the web. got a 1200 for£250. i believe they had mk5 for £350. they are a white goods store but sell mid range hifi and i've always had good service from them. they may be worth a call.

Marco

10-09-2008, 07:50

It's a very decent price. Mechanically no difference between a mk2 & a mk5, only speed adjustment difference and no hinges on the mk5, maybe some other trivial stuff, like a push button reset on the pitch control.

Yep, but you're forgetting that the MK5 (G) has a titanium armtube instead of the stainless steel one on the MK2, and it also has 'audiophile grade' OFC tonearm wiring and high quality RCA sockets and connectors as standard ;)

However, if you're going to have the arm rewired with Cardas cable it doesn't matter. The titanium armtube is significant, though, as it increases rigidity and improves sound quality accordingly.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

11-09-2008, 07:46

Scoobs,

There's a crumb of an idea in you breadbin. I think the silver sand, granite is maybe over kill, but, why not? I showed Mrs user34 your breadbin, and she wasn't impressed, I think she prefers the unsullied good looks of the stock SL1210.

Anyway, I'm wondering about a KAB breadbin with a slatedeck slate shelf hidden in it.

Too many toys, too little time. I have to get the streaming rig in order before going hell for leather on the SL1210. Although I'm going to organise the J7/Kab mods for the arm in the next week or so.

cheers

scoobs

11-09-2008, 16:02

Scoobs,

There's a crumb of an idea in you breadbin. I think the silver sand, granite is maybe over kill, but, why not? I showed Mrs user34 your breadbin, and she wasn't impressed, I think she prefers the unsullied good looks of the stock SL1210.

Anyway, I'm wondering about a KAB breadbin with a slatedeck slate shelf hidden in it.

cheers

Yeah, it's not to everyones taste, but for me it hides a multitude of sins and I like the deep plinths of retro turntables, so that was just a geeky indulgence.

Perhaps Mrs user34 would prefer your 1210 clad in zebrano?
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/indypepa/p1.jpg
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/indypepa/p3.jpg

or maybe plain ol' maple
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/indypepa/plin1.jpg

Peter Stockwell

11-09-2008, 19:22

Me I like the Maple

Marco

11-09-2008, 20:06

And me... Nice clean lines, it doesn't draw attention to itself :)

The 'Zebrano' looks like it's been designed by a chest wig-wearer for a tart's boudoir in the 1970s.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

12-09-2008, 01:44

So where do you get 'em made ?

Marco

12-09-2008, 08:45

Sacre bleu, 3.44am your time!

What were you doing up at that time, mon ami - returning from a tart's boudoir? :eyebrows:

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

12-09-2008, 10:07

I don't think my missus would like being referred to like that ;) I couldn't sleep so she couldn't sleep so I couldn't sleep so she couldn't sleep, so I went to the study.

Marco

12-09-2008, 10:16

Is it noisy or something where you are in Paris? I seem to remember in the past similar tales of insomnia...

Or maybe you're both just too excited about the forthcoming arm rewiring on your 1210 :eyebrows:

Marco.

muffinman

14-09-2008, 08:10

clamps.
What's the word in teccie town on this subject? I've been using michell clamps for the last 7yrs but had to sell my last one with the Gorbe. Should I replace with the same, go for a massy affair or will a clearaudio plastic jobbie do the trick?
Id like to hear views on the relative benefits as many of my records warrant such an item.

Marco

14-09-2008, 08:28

Muffters,

The jury's out on clamps as far as I'm concerned. I got the KAB one (with drilled-out threaded spindle) and it had next to no effect, save perhaps adding some unwanted damping, resulting in a slightly 'thicker', more ponderous sound. I prefer no clamping at all and for the record to 'float' freely on the platter. This makes for a more dynamic and involving presentation, certainly in my system.

However, I know of other people who use clamps on SP10s and claim they work very well, and of course with Mitchell decks it's a prerequisite - but then they were designed from the ground up to work with clamps. I think that's the whole point: if clamps are an integral part of the manufacturer's design then you're more likely to get a positive effect with them than when added as an aftermarket 'tweak'.

YMMV, though! :)

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

15-09-2008, 07:00

Marco

15-09-2008, 09:07

Ah, I see. I know having been there on numerous occasions that Paris can be one way or the other.

We must hook up next time I'm over. I'm sure you know of all the best 'haunts' where one can indulge in consuming fine food and wine without paying tourist prices :)

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

15-09-2008, 11:37

I'm sure you know of all the best 'haunts' where one can indulge in consuming fine food and wine without paying tourist prices :)

I don't go out as much as I once did, so actually knowing where the best places are, I'm out of touch. My favourite restaurants are, almost, all in the provinces ! On the whole, eating out in Paris is going to be a safer bet than London, but you may be dissapointed compared with Florence. I've also reduced my vino consumption by 66%! down to 1 bottle a week for 2. Which does mean we can treat ourselves to better ;)

regards

Marco

15-09-2008, 11:50

My favourite restaurants are, almost, all in the provinces !

As is usually the case in large cities. I know when I was last in Paris (some 5 years ago) there were quite a few excellent restaurants, mainly family run, on the Left Bank tucked away down side streets, which were populated entirely by French people without a 'Menu Touristique' in sight. The food was quite superb, all home-cooked, accompanied by some inspired wine lists, and it wasn't terribly expensive. Sometimes you even got live Jazz music thrown in...

Those are the sorts of places I like to frequent :smoking:

Lunch at Maxim's can be fun, too, though!

http://www.maxims-de-paris.com/RECEPTION-RESTAURANT-US/paris.htm

Apart from the superb food, I love the décor and the whole overall ambience.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell

15-09-2008, 13:59

I know when I was last in Paris (some 5 years ago) there were quite a few excellent restaurants, mainly family run, on the Left Bank tucked away down side streets, which were populated entirely by French people without a 'Menu Touristique' in sight. The food was quite superb, all home-cooked, accompanied by some inspired wine lists, and it wasn't terribly expensive. Sometimes you even got live Jazz music thrown in...

Those are the sorts of places I like to frequent :smoking:

Lunch at Maxim's can be fun, too, though!

http://www.maxims-de-paris.com/RECEPTION-RESTAURANT-US/paris.htm

Apart from the superb food, I love the décor and the whole overall ambience.

Marco.

Never been there! Know where it is tho'. I have been to a couple starry restaurants in paris, but these days stick mostly to home cooking;).

I think we've drifted very much off topic, maybe you should cut and paste to another thread, or even delete these posts ?

muffinman

15-09-2008, 16:59

Muffters,

The jury's out on clamps as far as I'm concerned.

Marco.

Ta for your reply. however, i picked up a michell clamp today. a few of my records have the odd warp - mostly newer vinyl actually. i just considered that if i'm going to buy a platter mat then surely ensuring a consistent interface is the best way to go. of course, both mat and clamp are readily removeable and saleable. i'll let you know how it goes.
news on the tweak front - sumiko headshell is here. thruno weight is being born as i write and i'm just waiting on a payment link from KAB for the psu,cardas arm,turret terminal and cardas headshell leads.
i have a fornight off soon so i'm going to be able to hear a progression and report back. i'm really looking forward to the psu as it has been 'bigged up' so much.
finally, i'm conflicted about which mat to buy. the originlive is currently the most appealing as a few have decided they can live without the sds. also the sds, as marco said, is not a final solution and would require a further mat. there does not seem much info on the srm and people appear underwhelmed with the achromat. jeez, when did this become such a minefield?