Grace G-860 tonearm?

[vencel]

Hello,

I've run into a Grace G-860 tonearm but I don't know much about it. I tried to search on the net for reviews but could not find.
Anybody could share his opinion/experience about this tonearm?

Thanks!
László

[Marco]

Hi László,

If Andre (Rare Bird) doesn't see this, PM him, or perhaps Dave (DSJR) :)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Hi László

What are you wanting to know.. :)

[Barry]

Hello,

I've run into a Grace G-860 tonearm but I don't know much about it. I tried to search on the net for reviews but could not find.
Anybody could share his opinion/experience about this tonearm?

Thanks!
László


http://www.vinylengine.com/images/model/grace_g-860f.jpg

S-shaped tone arm with detachable headshell, using standard EIA/SME bayonet coupling. Gimbal bearings.


Counterbalance range (including headshell): 4.5 –19g
Effective length: 285mm
Overhang: 15mm
Offset angle: 20°

No information available for the effective mass.


In general Grace made some fine arms (with the possible exception of the model G-707 (in my opinion)).

If you can pick this up cheaply, then I would say: “go for it” – but remember, Grace ceased trading several years ago, so spares and servicing will be difficult.

[vencel]

Thanks for the answers. I don't know if EUR 350 is a considered cheap, but that's what the person is asking for. As I know it is in working condition but rather dirty and used.
I've never had a 12" tonearm but would be interested to try therefore I am curious is this arm is considered good or I should skip it?
How does it compare to a 12" Ortofon?

[Rare Bird]

I only do low mass arms these days. So you can understand i think highly of Grace..I prefer the shorter 'G840'.. The 'G860' are pretty thin on the ground these days..

[vencel]

I only do low mass arms these days. So you can understand i think highly of Grace..I prefer the shorter 'G840'.. The 'G860' are pretty thin on the ground these days..

Sorry Andre, what does it mean "pretty thing on the ground"?
Would you recommend buying it for EUR 350 and using it with a restored Lenco L70 or Thorens TD-124 II?

I have a Shure MM pickup and also a Denon DL-103R. I would like to try the Shure and was looking for a good 12" arm.
Unfortunately I cannot afford an ortofon or Schick arm.

[The Grand Wazoo]

"pretty thing on the ground"?

........Rare

[vencel]

Thanks for the clarification :-)
I checked today the tonearm and it is in pretty good shape. Naturally there are some minor scratches on the arm tube but I think with little polishing they would probably disappear.
What could be its street price and what would be a good deal for it?

Thanks!

[SPS]

I have a yamaha yp 800 , its got a version on the 840 arm on it, its a nice arm

dont know about value though

[awkwardbydesign]

Sorry Andre, what does it mean "pretty thing on the ground"?

http://www.dreamstime.com/young-black-woman-lying-down-on-the-grass-thumb20768868.jpg

[DSJR]

HiFi Dave and I were chatting about the Grace arms not all that long ago. The UK was swamped with Linn supplied 707's and the very few others that came our way were from other importers.

I must admit the only other Grace I've personally used is the 714 (I think it's called) with wooden arm, well damped unipivot and a very luxury look. This one sounded wonderful with a Reference Signature Grado model fitted.

As to the 860 arm, I'd suggest it's very good but not as "chunky" as say a Jelco 750. Hopefully the bearings aren't as frail as the 707's could be, especially the early ones, and the overall effective mass should suit a huge variety of modern cartridges of all types with any luck :) The price asked is a bit high though, since no spares are available and the SME 3009 Series 2 in un-improved form is easily available with tons of new and used parts available for around £250 or so and easy re-wiring options etc.. My cheeky inclinations are more towards around two hundred Euros in all honesty.

[vencel]

Thanks for the very useful information. I also had an SME 3009 but that was a 9" arm while this Grace G-860 is a 12" (or 11") arm. That's why I am interested in its sonic qualities.

Regards,
László

[Barry]

HiFi Dave and I were chatting about the Grace arms not all that long ago. The UK was swamped with Linn supplied 707's and the very few others that came our way were from other importers.

I must admit the only other Grace I've personally used is the 714 (I think it's called) with wooden arm, well damped unipivot and a very luxury look. This one sounded wonderful with a Reference Signature Grado model fitted.

As to the 860 arm, I'd suggest it's very good but not as "chunky" as say a Jelco 750. Hopefully the bearings aren't as frail as the 707's could be, especially the early ones, and the overall effective mass should suit a huge variety of modern cartridges of all types with any luck :) The price asked is a bit high though, since no spares are available and the SME 3009 Series 2 in un-improved form is easily available with tons of new and used parts available for around £250 or so and easy re-wiring options etc.. My cheeky inclinations are more towards around two hundred Euros in all honesty.

Inclined to agree Dave.

I just loved the Grace 714 wooden arm. The 707, in my opinion, was a pile of Dingo's kidneys - plastic headshell! Yeuch!

There is a good reason why the Japanese fawn over the Series II SMEs.

[vencel]

Thanks for all of you for sharing your experiences and opinion on this tonearm.
I think I will skip this tonearm, at least will not buy for this price.
BIG THANKS!

[chelsea]

Wonder why the 707 was so popular in the early 80s with linnies?

Not heard one myself.

[DSJR]

It was popular pre Ittok because it was "the" arm to use on a 'Sondek and actually worked very well with the deck in its early state of tune - pre nirvana kit too.. I'm told these were bought in bulk very cheaply and sold to "us" as a far more expensive product. Can't say if this is true, but it follows the "ten times" business practice used so often in domestic audio in the past and possibly the present too :(

The 707 was designed for CD-4 records and cartridges and offered very low mass as was the fashion then and extremely delicate and ultra low capacitance exit cable. Used with a suitable cartridge, it's still a very good arm in the SME fixed shell kind of way, but couldn't have been worse in all honesty with the Supex 900's and with Linn modified reamed out shell, Asak's too, the sound with the latter getting screamy and with awful tracking ability!

The 860 as a 12" model will be very rare indeed in the UK and I doubt there are any others here.

[vencel]

It was popular pre Ittok because it was "the" arm to use on a 'Sondek and actually worked very well with the deck in its early state of tune - pre nirvana kit too.. I'm told these were bought in bulk very cheaply and sold to "us" as a far more expensive product. Can't say if this is true, but it follows the "ten times" business practice used so often in domestic audio in the past and possibly the present too :(

The 707 was designed for CD-4 records and cartridges and offered very low mass as was the fashion then and extremely delicate and ultra low capacitance exit cable. Used with a suitable cartridge, it's still a very good arm in the SME fixed shell kind of way, but couldn't have been worse in all honesty with the Supex 900's and with Linn modified reamed out shell, Asak's too, the sound with the latter getting screamy and with awful tracking ability!

The 860 as a 12" model will be very rare indeed in the UK and I doubt there are any others here.

This mean that the 860 could be a kind of collector's item but should not really be used on a Thorens TD-124 or Lenco L70?

[DSJR]

You use it with whatever you like sir :lol: