Russ Andrews Claim.......

[icehockeyboy]

That if your kit uses a figure of 8 mains lead, tests have shown on their aftermarket leads, that it makes a sonic difference which way round you have it plugged in.

Can this be factual?

[Wakefield Turntables]

OH! FFS! HOSS-SHIT! WHERE IS THE PROOF???

:hmm:

[sq225917]

Has he actually made this claim in his print/web literature or is he giving an opinion.

[MCRU]

He wouldn't dare print it without proof after last time! Who gives a s..t anyway?:)

[YNWaN]

Indeed, who really cares.

However, I guess it depends what kind of test was done and how factual he claims the results. If he says the test was a purely subjective one and six out of ten heard an improvement, he could claim an element of 'proof'.

[sondale]

Is this relevant / related?

http://www.vandenhul.com/userfiles/docs/Polarity_Checker_English_Manual.pdf

[MCRU]

Indeed, who really cares.

However, I guess it depends what kind of test was done and how factual he claims the results. If he says the test was a purely subjective one and six out of ten heard an improvement, he could claim an element of 'proof'.

well he also says his new mains wall socket is the best socket he has ever heard, maybe so as he has probably not listened to competitors wall sockets on purpose as he knows they are probably better!

if 5 of his co-workers listen and they hear a difference then great but what difference does it make, you buy the cable and plug it in one way, listen for a bit, plug it in the other way and see if there is a difference for the better, then that is it, what's the point of this thread anyway? :scratch:

[Reffc]

well he also says his new mains wall socket is the best socket he has ever heard, maybe so as he has probably not listened to competitors wall sockets on purpose as he knows they are probably better!

if 5 of his co-workers listen and they hear a difference then great but what difference does it make, you buy the cable and plug it in one way, listen for a bit, plug it in the other way and see if there is a difference for the better, then that is it, what's the point of this thread anyway? :scratch:

Can anyone actually take seriously what that guy has to say any more?

I've tried listening to my wall sockets. To be sure it was the wall sockets, I turned everything else off, including the amps, source, fish tank pump and even the fridge. I listened very hard but am afraid to say that I couldn't "hear" my sockets no matter how hard I tried. :peace:

[Wakefield Turntables]

He wouldn't dare print it without proof after last time! Who gives a s..t anyway?:)


guess who this is :spank:

yeah RA getting his ass spanked by trading standards :laugh:

[icehockeyboy]

, what's the point of this thread anyway? :scratch:

The point?
Manufacturers making wild claims Dave.............not right at all.

[Reid Malenfant]

The figure of eight mains leads are only allowed to be used on equipment that is double insulated & with no earth.

So effectively it doesn't matter whether the Live or Neutral in the mains lead sees the internal fuse, because you can't short a damn thing to earth as there isn't one ;)

It won't make a crap of difference which way the connector is connected :D

[DSJR]

I'm afraid it does Mark :lol: Done it with so many Philips based CD players and could hear it blind... Philips leads had a little tongue on the back end of the plug to aid "polarity."

Easy really, from my numpty perspective anyway. The "best" way round for a fig-8 mains cable was to keep the brown live conductor connected to the pole of the unit with the inline fuse.

Ah well. I happily admit to being a numpty, but I heard what I thought I heard :mental: :lol:

[Reid Malenfant]

Polarised plug? New one on me Dave, but if so then maybe the machine was using the Neutral (which is at Earth potential as they are wired together) to sink some noise via capacitors (filtering).

No idea, but the polarised plug is also a new one, so... :eyebrows:

[synsei]

Absolute Foo, IMHO as always... ;)

[DSJR]

Sorry, I mean the low current fig 8 mains plugs as used on smaller gear. Are talking about the same thing here? Polarised as in one pole is hot and the other neutral, not "polarised" in the peter Belt sense.......

[Reid Malenfant]

Sorry, I mean the low current fig 8 mains plugs as used on smaller gear. Are talking about the same thing here? Polarised as in one pole is hot and the other neutral, not "polarised" in the peter Belt sense.......
Yes I think so Dave, but they can be inserted into the socket either way from all that I have seen :)

Never seen one that you can only insert the plug one way round, though yes, one of the terminals is Live & the other is Neutral.

Now are we on the same lines :)

[synsei]

Some Philips products are supplied with what is best described as a 'B' shaped plug rather than a figure of eight. I think it is this type that Dave is alluding to Mark.

[DSJR]

No, what I am referring to is the Philips reverible fig-8 mains plug. Put it in either way round (:eyebrows:) but I seemed to find, back in the good old days when I cared about such things, that the sound was slightly smoother on a CD player if the plug was aligned "correctly." Now, since CD players back then sprayed all sorts of muck down their signal lead screens as well as back into the mains, I'm sure that any difference could be measured. Cripes, if I can hear it, it MUST be measurable :lol:

[Reid Malenfant]

Yes, that's what I thought Dave might be refering to, Dave :lol:

But I have never seen one myself, might have seen a picture of one though :scratch:


Sorry :)

[Reid Malenfant]

No, what I am referring to is the Philips reverible fig-8 mains plug. Put it in either way round (:eyebrows:) but I seemed to find, back in the good old days when I cared about such things, that the sound was slightly smoother on a CD player if the plug was aligned "correctly." Now, since CD players back then sprayed all sorts of muck down their signal lead screens as well as back into the mains, I'm sure that any difference could be measured. Cripes, if I can hear it, it MUST be measurable :lol:
Ah, gotcha Dave, took my time :doh:

I thought about this earlier & while I'll not say I agree with you, because I can't see how it could make a difference, you have me wondering :eyebrows:

It's something I have never tried, as I have just plugged them in & not swapped them over.


:rfl:

You just might have done me a favour :lol:


Why didn't I ever even consider it? Because in theory it shouldn't make any difference if it's double insulated :doh:



7126

[keiths]

Wasn't there a little detector gizmo ("Elfix" or summat?) that was sold years ago that determined the "correct" polarity, or am I imagining it?

Edit - sorry, just read the whole thread :doh:

[YNWaN]

No you are not imagining it - RA sold precisely that (may still do for all I know).

[Mr Kipling]

I'm afraid it does Mark :lol: Done it with so many Philips based CD players and could hear it blind... Philips leads had a little tongue on the back end of the plug to aid "polarity."

Easy really, from my numpty perspective anyway. The "best" way round for a fig-8 mains cable was to keep the brown live conductor connected to the pole of the unit with the inline fuse.

Ah well. I happily admit to being a numpty, but I heard what I thought I heard :mental: :lol:
By The Lord Harry! I used to notice the same with a Philips 150, and also Technics RS-B605 cassette deck using a standard plug. In the '80s did read the story of one amp manufacturer, that wasn't named, was having problems with inconsistant sound. Eventually it was traced to the mains transformers some of which were wired in "reverse" as it were.

[weetabix]

Hi all,

Yes, I'm with David on this one, I did exactly that with a couple of my products and would you believe it, there is a subtle sonic improvement, I'm not imagining it.

I do find it quite funny how many people immediately dismiss these statements shooting them down in flames.

Sometimes it's really worth having a more open mind.

A I stated earlier in another thread about cable "burn-in" or more so "settling-in", there's no smoke without fire.

[Reid Malenfant]

I do find it quite funny how many people immediately dismiss these statements shooting them down in flames.

Sometimes it's really worth having a more open mind.
Ok, well perhaps if there was some logical reason behind this I'd have what you call an "open mind"...

The thing is is this though, these are only used on double insulated equipment that doesn't have an earth!

So all the mains sees is a fuse & maybe a power switch & transformer ;)

As it's double insulated it makes no difference to the transformer which way it is fed AC, because it is AC & it reverses polarity. If it didn't the transformer wouldn't work ;)


So I find it rather difficult to see how the hell it makes a shred of difference which way the plug is connected - because it shouldn't!

I understand how cables can effect things, but not a circuit that shouldn't give two hoots which way it's connected.

It's kind of like saying you'll get a better quality of light if you turn that bayonet bulb round 180 degrees :eyebrows:


Having said that though, I'll give it a try. If it works then as far as I'm concerned it'll be magic, because there is simply no other explanation :cool:



Are we happy now? :rfl:

[Macca]

Having said that though, I'll give it a try. If it works then as far as I'm concerned it'll be magic, because there is simply no other explanation :cool:


:

Coming soon on AOS - proof that magic is real. (Hey I knew all along...). James Randi will crap himself. Hard core objectivists will mass suicide by drinking Kontak. Don't touch that dial! - We'll be right back...

[synsei]

:rfl:

[Reid Malenfant]

PMSL :lol:

[Paul Hynes]

It may make a perceptible difference which way round the plug is inserted. The transformer primary will likely have many windings that will have to be layered to fit on the core. If the live feed connects to the winding input adjacent to the core, any noise on the live may transfer to the core more than if the neutral were connected to this section. The neutral is normally grounded at the local substation. This does not mean that there is no noise on the neutral, just that the noise content could be different on live and neutral, showing different noise transfer spectrum and noise level depending on which way around the connections are made. Sorry if this does not make sense, it’s been a long day and I am flagging. You can all beat me up tomorrow if I am talking crap.

Regards,
Paul

[sondale]

Wasn't there a little detector gizmo ("Elfix" or summat?) that was sold years ago that determined the "correct" polarity, or am I imagining it?

Edit - sorry, just read the whole thread :doh:

Another version of the device I linked to in post 6.

[awkwardbydesign]

Having said that though, I'll give it a try. If it works then as far as I'm concerned it'll be magic, because there is simply no other explanation :cool:
Are we happy now? :rfl:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)

[Reid Malenfant]

It may make a perceptible difference which way round the plug is inserted. The transformer primary will likely have many windings that will have to be layered to fit on the core. If the live feed connects to the winding input adjacent to the core, any noise on the live may transfer to the core more than if the neutral were connected to this section. The neutral is normally grounded at the local substation. This does not mean that there is no noise on the neutral, just that the noise content could be different on live and neutral, showing different noise transfer spectrum and noise level depending on which way around the connections are made. Sorry if this does not make sense, it’s been a long day and I am flagging. You can all beat me up tomorrow if I am talking crap.

Regards,
Paul
Actually Paul, that is the only rational explanation that has so far been proposed that could explain it :D

Something I never though of & might indeed make a difference ;)

Thank you for putting magic out of the equation :lol:

[MartinT]

well he also says his new mains wall socket is the best socket he has ever heard, maybe so as he has probably not listened to competitors wall sockets on purpose as he knows they are probably better!

:rfl: priceless!

[Marco]

Hi Martin,

Did you ever get the Missing Link EPS-100 wall socket, as you outlined here:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=347460&postcount=17

If so, how did it perform? :)

Marco.

[MartinT]

Hi Marco, yes I did get the socket and fitted it a while ago. Very worthwhile on two counts: a minor but nevertheless significant improvement in sound over the MK unswitched double I had in there before (especially in the authority of mid-bass); tighter grip of the inserted plugs, very pleasing since the 'beast' Furukawa 2.6 is such a heavy and inflexible cable.

For the low cost, the EPS-100 silver plated unswitched double socket is a no-brainer.

[Marco]

Nice one, mate, and a cheap tweak! I'm glad then that I brought it to your attention :)

Marco.

[MartinT]

Ta muchly ;)