Nottingham Analogue/Tom Fletcher

[manwithvan]

hello all...

I'm considering upgrading from a Thorens td 150 with SME 3009. The decks I'm considering are

1. Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace or Dais
2. a Secondhand Notts Mentor
3. Fletcher Audio's Omega Point 5

Firstly, I wonder if anyone can comment or advise, as customer feedback on the internet regarding particularly the Notts range can be misleading.

Secondly, would I notice a massive difference from my Thorens and SME? I'm considering an air bearing tonearm with one of the above decks...

Many thanks

Carson

[hifi_dave]

Hi Carson. I have the Notts range here and can demo if you wish.

The Fletcher turntables appear to have disappeared from the market at this time. Unfortunate really, as Tom had put a lot of effort into these before his untimely demise. I doubt we will be seeing them again but Tom's work lives on in the Nottingham Analogue range.

The current Hyper Space is a better deck than the old Mentor.

[DSJR]

The Mentor is a bit of a beast, but since I owned one and sold it on a financial-necessity whim - a move I bitterly regret, I feel able to directly comment..

My Mentor had the motor attached to the plinth. later ones had the motor in a separate pod set into a hole in the plinth. The one I had was, like a Rega, dependent on the arm pod being firmly tight. Any looseness caused motor harmonics into the reproduced sound, something that none of the separate motor models do. The platter is humungously heavy and wow and flutter of any form vanishingly low. The main bearing was a brute too and despite mine being an early one with upturned point, no wear at all was evident in several years of several hours a day running.

I think it fair to say that although there is little on the surface of a NAS deck to get the pulse going, unlike the heavy Japanese bling decks of yore, but rest assured that the internal engineering is first class. A bloomin' Spacedeck will take the fine fundamentals of a good TD150 to a higher plane, as it used to do the LP12 too, but the bigger and heavier models such as the Hyperspace and Mentor, let alone the new Dias, will add finesse and grace to the proceedings.

One final thing if I may. Allow for a Wave Mechanic supply. It really does help and gives you some fine speed adjustment too, should you feel it necessary.

[manwithvan]

Thank you Dave and Dave.

Yes, I've heard a Spacedeck do wonders, and was quite surprised to hear that it was (a Spacedeck).

I'm coming to understand that when considering mass, that there is an optimum, and that anything beyond that is an overkill. I'd like to hear the Spacedeck, Hyperspace and Dais side by side in the same system with the same record, and to put my heart in my ears.

The Mentor I'm considering won't have the opportunity for inspection/audition before being bought, but of course, at just under half the price of a new Hyperspace it appeals.

I look forward to getting things setup

[hifi_dave]

Personally, I'd take an Ace Spacedeck over a Mentor. Might not look as imposing but sounds better and the fit n finish is in a different league.

[YNWaN]

The only NA deck I have heard properly (i.e. not at a show) was the Dais, which I must admit I rather liked.

All the decks you mention would be suitable for use with an air-bearing arm (unlike you current Thorens). However, I would advise caution and make sure you audition the arm you are considering. As with all things hi-fi, there is no 'free lunch' and although air-bearing arms offer very low friction there is a downside; that is that the air film is not similarly stiff at all frequencies and offers significantly greater damping at higher frequencies than lower frequencies. As a result, air-bearing arms are notorious for being bass light - even 'state of the art' examples.

[DSJR]

Personally, I'd take an Ace Spacedeck over a Mentor. Might not look as imposing but sounds better and the fit n finish is in a different league.

Bloody cheek!!!!! :ner:


I gave my Mentor away for £750 in '95 or thereabouts. The chap who bought it told me a year or two ago that he still has it, but the Mentor arm has been changed for something else (I liked the Mentor arm, but finish-wise, it's no SME).

I suppose I shall meet Dave half-way here and say that the Mentor deck and arm were optimised for a Decca-in-its-Deccapod, the whole with my Microscanner being the closest I'd EVER heard vinyl come to master tape (and I had a few tracks and excerpts with which to roughly compare). The Decca is a well behaved one and has proved reliable after it's repair some years ago, but I must admit i couldn't afford a suitable replacement cartridge when the Decca failed first time around and I sold the deck minus cartridge back then shortly after. I suspect high output MC types like the Sumiko BP and Blackbird would be wonderful on one of these, together with ballsy but not dull low output alternatives (I'm sure some of the current Ortofons are ideal, but I have memories of some Ortofon MC's being deliberately crippled to sound "organic" and softer in tone without the heavy duty SPU generator to back it up with balls and power, let alone the fancy tips now available).

Whatever NAS deck you end up with, I'd personally recommend either a cut paving slab to plonk it on, or one of NAS's own ones if they still do them as they did in my day. Absolutely NO acoustic feedback whatsoever and a totally inert structure. Tapping a record while playing barely gets a light "thud" through the speakers, and this without a clamp or weight of any sort..........


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/MentorDecca.jpg


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/1990Mentor2.jpg

[baron]

Thank you Dave and Dave.

Yes, I've heard a Spacedeck do wonders, and was quite surprised to hear that it was (a Spacedeck).

I'm coming to understand that when considering mass, that there is an optimum, and that anything beyond that is an overkill. I'd like to hear the Spacedeck, Hyperspace and Dais side by side in the same system with the same record, and to put my heart in my ears.

The Mentor I'm considering won't have the opportunity for inspection/audition before being bought, but of course, at just under half the price of a new Hyperspace it appeals.

I look forward to getting things setup

Be prepared to buy the Dais then, it is that good. If you hear it you have to buy it. :)

[walpurgis]

Dave, the high output Sumikos are evil devices. Have you heard them? I have, there's a coarseness to the overall sound and the top end sounds unruly. If anybody likes these Its because they've not heard better. A Denon DL-160 will run circles around them for refinement and sweetness.

[Patrick Dixon]

As a result, air-bearing arms are notorious for being bass light - even 'state of the art' examples.

Yes, when I play my 'bass light' Decca in it's 'base light' air bearing arm to friends, I always feel the necessity to apologise for the lack of bass ...

... with a wry smile on my face of course.

(Although it does seem very considerably less 'bass light' than the Ekos/Troika I used to have.)

[DSJR]

Dave, the high output Sumikos are evil devices. Have you heard them? I have, there's a coarseness to the overall sound and the top end sounds unruly. If anybody likes these Its because they've not heard better. A Denon DL-160 will run circles around them for refinement and sweetness.

I've SOLD the bloody things and if set up properly they're NOT coarse at all. Assertive yes, but not coarse - do you really think the master tape or file is sweet sounding? I can assure you it isn't as a rule. However, bad setup in the wrong deck/arm and a phono stage that has marginal overload margins will do what you say with the Sumiko's. Since so much treble energy is often lost on mid priced vinyl systems, I like a bit of treble energy, me :lol:

[YNWaN]

Yes, when I play my 'bass light' Decca in it's 'base light' air bearing arm to friends, I always feel the necessity to apologise for the lack of bass ...

... with a wry smile on my face of course.

(Although it does seem very considerably less 'bass light' than the Ekos/Troika I used to have.)

I didn't make any comment regarding Decca cartridges and I'm not familiar with your system.

However, if you found your Ekos/Troika to be bass light you had other issues.

[Patrick Dixon]

I didn't make any comment regarding Decca cartridges and I'm not familiar with your system.

However, if you found your Ekos/Troika to be bass light you had other issues.

Deccas are 'well known' in all internet circles to be bass light ;-)

And I didn't say my Ekos/Trokia was bass light in absolute terms ... just bass light compared to my 'allegedly' bass light Decca/Air bearing arm ;-)

[DSJR]

Decca's ARE NOT bass light :rolleyes: They just need a suitable mounting arrangement, a suitable tonearm and a record support arrangement able to do the Decca justice. The bass performance is then more to do with the way the record was cut and will vary from pressing to pressing as it should. I agree that some Decca's are incredibly uncouth in the extreme treble, but this is more to do with internal build and the diamond profile used, the Microscanner being best behaved of the older ones, although I'm sure the Paratrace diamond is similar.

Apologies folks, I just get annoyed with some of what I read about the Decca
cartridges. Maybe they vary so much and are so deck dependant that each owner has a different story to tell :scratch: