View Full Version : Budget Copper-Based Connectors
Mr Kipling
26-08-2012, 16:12
Judging by the low price of Nakamichi banana plugs I'd assumed they were plated brass. Looking on their website, however, it appears they are copper-based. Strangely enough, they don't give the material for their RCA plugs.
Kind Regards,
Stephen
sq225917
26-08-2012, 16:34
and brass (an alloy) is mostly based on which metal?
prestonchipfryer
26-08-2012, 17:20
Copper and zinc?
Mr Kipling
26-08-2012, 17:26
True. Brass is 66% copper and 33% or so zinc and 1 or 2 % lead.
It's still not as conductive as copper itself (less conductive than aluminum alloy) which is less conductive than silver, being the best conductor.
Yeah but it's still quite true to say it's a copper based alloy :) .
sq225917
26-08-2012, 18:08
lol.... well spotted Dave...
Mr Kipling
26-08-2012, 18:20
Yeah but it's still quite true to say it's a copper based alloy :) .
Yes. An ALLOY, that's not as effective as copper itself at getting electrons from A to B.
Yes. An ALLOY, that's not as effective as copper itself at getting electrons from A to B.
But that's not wot they said :scratch: - they said 'copper based' and copper based it is (if it's 'proper' brass ;) ). I'm an old Yorkshireman and I know all about 'brass' :lol:
Technically speaking, 'pure' metal of any sort is a rare commodity, there's almost always some other metal in there, so making it an alloy. 99.999999999% copper and 0.000000001% zinc is, technically an alloy of copper and zinc. Alright, I'm gently nit-picking ;) but 'tis true :) .
Here endeth today's metallurgy lecture :rolleyes: .
Dave.
Mr Kipling
26-08-2012, 20:30
But that's not wot they said :scratch: - they said 'copper based' and copper based it is (if it's 'proper' brass ;) ). I'm an old Yorkshireman and I know all about 'brass' :lol:
Technically speaking, 'pure' metal of any sort is a rare commodity, there's almost always some other metal in there, so making it an alloy. 99.999999999% copper and 0.000000001% zinc is, technically an alloy of copper and zinc. Alright, I'm gently nit-picking ;) but 'tis true :) .
Here endeth today's metallurgy lecture :rolleyes: .
Dave.
Yes. But my idea of copper-based differs to your own. To me I was thinking in terms of beryllium oxygen-free which is to be found in connectors that are a step-up from your bog-standard type .
Nit-Pick as you want. It doesn't alter the fact that brass is a poorer conductor than copper. Don't really see brass interconnects or speaker leads, do you?
Yes. But my idea of copper-based differs to your own. To me I was thinking in terms of beryllium oxygen-free which is to be found in connectors that are a step-up from your bog-standard type .
Nit-Pick as you want. It doesn't alter the fact that brass is a poorer conductor than copper. Don't really see brass interconnects or speaker leads, do you?
Chillax please - my comments were not meant to be taken so seriously :) .
I would not be at all surprised to see brass connectors, suitably disguised with some cheap plating, from our friends in the east, but I don't think brass lends itself to being drawn into wire otherwise I suspect we might see some of that as well from the same direction :( .
Dave.
Its all been said before chaps.
Pure Silver
Pure copper
rest is not relevent
blardey blardey blah :lol:
Read this guys. (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/sitefiles/15/2/2/152201/On%20the%20Conductivity%20of%20Selected%20Metals.p df)
Mr Kipling
26-08-2012, 21:01
Chillax please - my comments were not meant to be taken so seriously :) .
I would not be at all surprised to see brass connectors, suitably disguised with some cheap plating, from our friends in the east, but I don't think brass lends itself to being drawn into wire otherwise I suspect we might see some of that as well from the same direction :( .
Dave.
Think the word's ductile.
When I find examples of what I mean, I'll post them.
pete_mac
27-08-2012, 00:36
The 'Nakamichi' plugs are definitely, absolutely 100% brass, just like the vast majority of plugs and binding posts on the market. I've got a bunch of them here and I've tested them and they are not pure copper.
Still, for $1 a pop they aren't a bad option for cheaply terminating speakers cables. The low mass, beryllium copper BFAs are a better bet though.
sq225917
27-08-2012, 01:13
Like I said. Anywhere it says copper alloy, part copper, copper based, mostly copper, they mean brass.
And there's little point worrying about how conductive brass is. Even the best solders are only 1/4 as conductive as copper and as such a hairs less conductive than brass.
http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/SolderChart.cfm#chart
Whatever they are made of, be very wary of them. I bought 20 Nakamichi plugs from an ebay seller in Japan a couple of years ago (I forget who) and attached them to the Cable Talk 3.1 speaker cables I was using at the time. After a month or so of use the plug shafts broke away from the shanks one by one due to the weight of the cables. I had to replace them with better quality plugs in the end. You get what you pay for. I won't be buying any more...
awkwardbydesign
27-08-2012, 05:14
AFAIK "Nakamichi" is just printing, nothing to do with the real Nakamichi.
And beware of "OFC". I bought some OFC binding posts and they are brass. I expected that at the price, so wasn't disappointed.
I usually go for CMC sockets, and plugs from Valab. Their carbon sleeved locking RCA plugs suit me.
StanleyB
27-08-2012, 07:17
It doesn't alter the fact that brass is a poorer conductor than copper.
And the length of speaker cable used out of the best material known to man has a far higher resistance than the brass connector.
Don't really see brass interconnects or speaker leads, do you?[/QUOTE]
Is there a technical or commercial reason for that? Maybe one of the materials used in the alloy is now to expensive to use.
Why would you bother arsing around with the inferior brass shite, when top quality, genuine SOLID COPPER binding posts and spade connectors, from Cardas, are available from Hi-fi Collective, for not a lot of dosh (exactly what I use):
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/2417/cardasccmsc1500.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/cardasccmsc1500.gif/)
£7.80+ VAT each: http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/spades.html
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4412/ccbpsl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/ccbpsl.jpg/)
£24.68 + VAT each: http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/binding_posts.html
Get the real deal, people, and stop fannying about with piss-poor alternatives! ;)
Marco.
Hi Andre,
Nice..i would go for the same ones but opt for the Rhodium over Silver plated version, i can't be doing with the weathered look of the bare copper.
Oh yeah, sure.
I just like to keep things as pure and as simple as possible. 'Weathered' copper is still an excellent conductor, and I would argue still overall better than plating it with a metal, which is an inferior conductor (thus introducing another obstacle for the audio signal to negotiate), simply to make things look pretty! ;)
But I know how you are with these things :eyebrows:, so choice is good!
Marco.
'Weathered' copper is still an excellent conductor, and I would argue still overall better than plating it with a metal, which is an inferior conductor.
Marco.
Quote from the excellent article linked by David at MCRU above: -
"And copper oxide is a bad conductor."
Ooops.
Dave.
prestonchipfryer
27-08-2012, 10:37
If you are prepared to clean all your plugs on a regular basis, then copper or silver should not present a problem. De-oxit is probably ideal for keeping plugs at optimum.
Can l go ever so slightly off thread, those fabed Belkin cables which l like btw, have a lot of brass in each of their ends, would copper/silver bananas improve their performance then?:)
Quote from the excellent article linked by David at MCRU above: -
"And copper oxide is a bad conductor."
Ooops.
Dave.
Not in my opinion...
Besides, as John indicates, there is no need to let it oxidise (as indeed I don't)! ;) De-oxit is your friend.
Marco.
Marco, I was pointing out the apparent discrepancyn between the MCRU linked article and your statement,
"Originally Posted by Marco
'Weathered' copper is still an excellent conductor, and I would argue still overall better than plating it with a metal, which is an inferior conductor.
Marco."
In other words, weathered (aka oxidised) copper is not an excellent conductor - it goes without saying that not letting it oxidise is to be preferred, no? ;)
Dave.
prestonchipfryer
27-08-2012, 12:58
I think connector cleaning is the last thing i'd want to worry about)
It's just good housekeeping keeping everything clean. This includes LP's, CD's, computer, etc., connections and connectors. Regular dusting, generally all nice and tidy!
Hi Dave,
"Originally Posted by Marco
'Weathered' copper is still an excellent conductor, and I would argue still overall better than plating it with a metal, which is an inferior conductor.
Marco."
In other words, weathered (aka oxidised) copper is not an excellent conductor...
Says Dave (or whoever he's quoting on his website), but not me!
...it goes without saying that not letting it oxidise is to be preferred, no? ;)
Indeed. My argument is basically that non-oxidised (kept clean with De-oxit) solid-copper connectors and binding posts, perform better sonically, than the same solid-copper connectors and binding posts, plated with a metal which is an inferior conductor, simply to prevent said oxidisation :)
IMO, the plating of connections with an inferior metal does more harm, sonically, than any small amount of oxidisation (kept to a minimum with De-oxit) on bare solid copper. However, I understand why Andre would think differently, in terms of how things look.
Marco.
Silver plated copper is a far better conductor than bare copper, simple physics prove that. Oxidized copper is not a good conductor, oxidized silver is. For speaker cables I am now using these, after 35 years of using everything I find these have out performed everything else I have ever used...
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/ALL%20MCRU%20POWER%20LEADS/7f6fd23b.jpg
Interestingly they have been around for quite some time, I have been using their bullet plugs for about a year now but only got round to trying the speaker plugs a few weeks ago. Read all about them if you are interested. (http://www.eti-research.com.au/index.php/our-products/oem/bayonet-plugs)
Like I said. Anywhere it says copper alloy, part copper, copper based, mostly copper, they mean brass.
And there's little point worrying about how conductive brass is. Even the best solders are only 1/4 as conductive as copper and as such a hairs less conductive than brass.
http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/SolderChart.cfm#chart
If your solder joint is providing the conductivity you've done it wrong. Solder is "glue" not the conductor. You need a mechanical connection between the two parts to be joined before applying solder.
Marco, copper oxide (oxidized copper, i.e. "weathered") is a piss-poor conductor. That's not opinion, it's one of those inconveniently measurable facts (and I generally don't give a toss for measurements).
pete_mac
28-08-2012, 00:42
AFAIK "Nakamichi" is just printing, nothing to do with the real Nakamichi.
And beware of "OFC". I bought some OFC binding posts and they are brass. I expected that at the price, so wasn't disappointed.
I usually go for CMC sockets, and plugs from Valab. Their carbon sleeved locking RCA plugs suit me.
The CMC 'swiss copper' binding posts are quite decent indeed. I have verified that these are copper and not brass in a previous thread. They are around USD$50 for four via ebay from Valab and a few other sellers.
awkwardbydesign
28-08-2012, 08:27
Silver plated copper is a far better conductor than bare copper, simple physics prove that.
Is the silver plating done directly to the copper? Or is there nickel in between, to prevent migration? I'm not referring to the Eichmanns here.
sq225917
28-08-2012, 09:07
Everyone is taking the 'weathered copper' phrase out of context, it's original use in this thread did not mean 'oxidised'. No one is disputing it's lower conductivity.
Everyone is taking the 'weathered copper' phrase out of context, it's original use in this thread did not mean 'oxidised'. No one is disputing it's lower conductivity.
Not arguing, just interested, but how would you differentiate between 'weathered' copper and 'oxidised' copper?
Dave.
Everyone is taking the 'weathered copper' phrase out of context, it's original use in this thread did not mean 'oxidised'. No one is disputing it's lower conductivity.
That's what I was going to say.
I think Dave jumped to a conclusion by thinking that what Marco said and the reference in the link were the same thing.
Silver plated copper is a far better conductor than bare copper, simple physics prove that.
Do you mind expanding on that?
I'd like to know how small voltages and currents are effected by transitions between metals, whether there are any semi-conductor like effects - always wondered whether pure as possible metal all the way through using good crimping is the best and whether plating ever has an effect on say low voltage level parts of the signal.
Or do you mean siple physics prooves it's far better in DC type way?
Marco, copper oxide (oxidized copper, i.e. "weathered") is a piss-poor conductor. That's not opinion, it's one of those inconveniently measurable facts (and I generally don't give a toss for measurements).
Indeed, and I accept that, but the differentiating factor is that I'm not talking about genuine oxidisation; I'm simply talking about a little bit of dirt or discoloration on the metal, eminently treatable with some De-oxit! ;)
Therefore, in retrospect, the term 'oxidised' shouldn't have been used in that context. As Simon correctly said:
Everyone is taking the 'weathered copper' phrase out of context, it's original use in this thread did not mean 'oxidised'. No one is disputing it's lower conductivity.
Quite!
'Tarnished' (lightly) would've been more appropriate. I'm just not a fan of plating metals. I much prefer using either solid-copper or solid-silver connectors, as the sonic effect of such is superior, to my ears.
I'm also fortunate that I can get easy access to the back of all of my equipment, so regular cleaning of all my 'oxidised' {cough!} connections isn't a problem - and trust me, they are all kept immaculately clean! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Is the silver plating done directly to the copper? Or is there nickel in between, to prevent migration? I'm not referring to the Eichmanns here.
:)
Silver and gold platings are usually over a substrate such as nickel. The reason for this is that whilst gold plating for example can be electro plated directly to copper, the copper molecules can infuse into the gold plating causing tarnishing, so nickel is used as a barrier layer. Silver is normally applied to a nickel plating as well. Because the plating isn't very thick (and often it isn't), it can contain micro-defects such as tiny cracks which allow moisture to get to the underlaying copper which causes rapid galvanic corrosion which can destroy the plating surface, hence the barrier layer of nickel.
There's platings and platings. Quality varies enormously as does thickness. Cheap, very thin platings over a thicker nickel plating are normal for budget/chinese connectors which are false economy. Also the method used for nickel plating itself can have issues in itself on signal propagation as nickel is ferromagnetic at room temperatures (one of the components of Alnico magnets is nickel!).
Decent thick gold plating and silver or Rhodium over silver plating is usually found on quality plugs, rarely on budget plugs. Solid silver contacts require treatment to prevent chemical reaction from hydrogen sulphide in the atmosphere which is the cause of the black tarnishing.
Truth is, for best conductivity for contacts that aren't constantly being taken out and replaced is bare copper treated with something like RFC's Planet Protector or similar Deoxit compounds (they work on the quantam tunnelling effect placing a very thin layer of oxidation protection and lubrication over susceptible metals but aren't in themselves conductive. the layers are so thin that electrical continuity occurs without impedance rises).
For components subject to more frequent replacement, thick gold plating is possibly the best (non tarnishing unlike silver) or silver/rhodium plating.
How good to get the facts about the subject rather than uninformed opinion/speculation - not pointing any fingers in any directions :) - but that says it all and, IMO, is all the information necessary to make the best decision.
Dave.
Truth is, for best conductivity for contacts that aren't constantly being taken out and replaced is bare copper treated with something like RFC's Planet Protector or similar Deoxit compounds...
;)
Marco.
Apart from the benefits these pure copper connectors should provide they also look very cool, nice find there Marco ;)
Is the silver plating done directly to the copper? Or is there nickel in between, to prevent migration? I'm not referring to the Eichmanns here.
depends who is doing the plating
some use nickel and some don't
nick is sending me some copper cardas spades and I will get them silver plated and have a play just for the fun of it
Apart from the benefits these pure copper connectors should provide they also look very cool, nice find there Marco ;)
they won't like quite as nice when they go dull!
they will however look very nice plated with silver see my earlier post :)
They don't seem to go dull very easily, as I've had them now for over a year, and they've hardly changed in appearance. They are excellent connectors and much cheaper than the Eichmanns you recommended (excellent as those are). SPPV, with the Cardas, is therefore higher, which matters significantly to many people.
Also, silver plated, as I've already said, doesn't sound as good to my ears, and Paul has outlined possible reasons why.
Marco.
P.S Any chance you could answer Nat's question on post #34? Churz! :cool:
That's what I like about you Dave, never one to miss a business opportunity. Would you be interested in promoting mine and my partners fledgling business idea? :eyebrows: ;)
nick is sending me some copper cardas spades and I will get them silver plated and have a play just for the fun of it
Try using them 'as is' first, and see what you think. Also, for maximum effectiveness, they really need to be used with the matching solid-copper Cardas binding posts :)
Marco.
sq225917
28-08-2012, 11:06
:)
Truth is, for best conductivity for contacts that aren't constantly being taken out and replaced is bare copper treated with something like RFC's Planet Protector or similar Deoxit compounds (they work on the quantam tunnelling effect placing a very thin layer of oxidation protection and lubrication over susceptible metals but aren't in themselves conductive. the layers are so thin that electrical continuity occurs without impedance rises).
Quantum tunneling my arse.
Not arguing, just interested, but how would you differentiate between 'weathered' copper and 'oxidised' copper?
Dave.
"Weathered" look is desirable in Elle Decoration and similar.. Green copper-oxide covered roofs also give a certain look that can be ok in the right context.
Quantum tunneling my arse.
Who is??
I'm also fortunate that I can get easy access to the back of all of my equipment...
....they are all kept immaculately clean! :eyebrows:
Marco.
There were rumours many years ago that Prince was similarly fortunate - doublejointed or just supple, I'm not sure which.
depends who is doing the plating
some use nickel and some don't
nick is sending me some copper cardas spades and I will get them silver plated and have a play just for the fun of it
Taking on your own experimentation is to be commended!
Wish I could be bothered myself to do the same - the advantage of it also being you're job I guess.
There were rumours many years ago that Prince was similarly fortunate - doublejointed or just supple, I'm not sure which.
Lol, not quite... I can nip round the back of my kit and access all the connections, as there is a nice gap between my gear and the window/wall behind it.
It also helps having it all about 6ft off of the ground on Phase 18 Mana:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6482/aosm03.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/195/aosm03.jpg/)
:eyebrows: :D
Marco.
awkwardbydesign
28-08-2012, 13:31
"Weathered" look is desirable in Elle Decoration and similar.. Green copper-oxide covered roofs also give a certain look that can be ok in the right context.
https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgxHUd0uclIW6yisfT9I3S6t0pLu-paMW9_5bdK0qvzndT9QPd
Quantum tunneling my arse.
:)
I dislike the term "quantam" as much I'm sure as you do when used by anyone to describe or sell hifi, as it far too often carries connertations of BS but in this case, it is probably the best way of explaining how this stuff works.
See this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling)
If it helps calling it something else like "contact enhancer" then we can leave it at that :thumbsup:
sq225917
28-08-2012, 14:17
I have a much better way of explaining how it works despite the presence of none conductive film. It's called 'Rubbed off due to contact pressure'. Deoxit 'reduces' the oxides on the surface and the pressure of the contact wipes it off. The small amount of residue surrounding the contact area very likely forms a relatively lasting seal around the contact point and preventing further oxidisation.
You can use a Rolf Harris Stylophone covered with strawberry jam in much the same way. I don't immediately assume that there is 'pectinate charge-coupled quantum tunnelling effect' taking place with my Stylophone. ;-)
Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us
Silver plated copper is a far better conductor than bare copper, simple physics prove that.
Do you mind expanding on that?
I'd like to know how small voltages and currents are effected by transitions between metals, whether there are any semi-conductor like effects - always wondered whether pure as possible metal all the way through using good crimping is the best and whether plating ever has an effect on say low voltage level parts of the signal.
Or do you mean siple physics prooves it's far better in DC type way?
Still waiting, David... Could you please state the "simple physics" which proves that silver plated copper is a better conductor than bare copper??
Ta!
Marco.
silver number 1
copper number 2
so adding silver, plated onto copper would make it a worse or better conductor?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_conductivity
off to the post office now and then the gym, see you later chief
I have a much better way of explaining how it works despite the presence of none conductive film. It's called 'Rubbed off due to contact pressure'. Deoxit 'reduces' the oxides on the surface and the pressure of the contact wipes it off. The small amount of residue surrounding the contact area very likely forms a relatively lasting seal around the contact point and preventing further oxidisation.
You can use a Rolf Harris Stylophone covered with strawberry jam in much the same way. I don't immediately assume that there is 'pectinate charge-coupled quantum tunnelling effect' taking place with my Stylophone. ;-)
Can't comment on the chemical composition of Deoxit but the stuff I use is a two part compound, the first part being a solvent based cleaner which removes light tarnish and oxides, the second being a thin film of electrical lubricant. It does not rub off readily and has been developed specifically for use on electrical contacts. The data sheet that I received from the company that manufacture the stuff was specific about it's composition and how it worked. They are a major company who have been working in the electrical industry for many years and I have no doubts at all about its suitability or its effectiveness.
sq225917
28-08-2012, 15:37
I can certainly see a two part procedure being cleaner than just a simple wipe on like Deoxit and I don't mean to target any product in particular, just the use of bullshit terminology to describe their function.
http://futuremusic.com/news/images/rolf_harris_stylophone.jpg
silver number 1
copper number 2
so adding silver, plated onto copper would make it a worse or better conductor?
Read what Paul wrote earlier, David:
Silver and gold platings are usually over a substrate such as nickel. The reason for this is that whilst gold plating for example can be electro plated directly to copper, the copper molecules can infuse into the gold plating causing tarnishing, so nickel is used as a barrier layer. Silver is normally applied to a nickel plating as well. Because the plating isn't very thick (and often it isn't), it can contain micro-defects such as tiny cracks which allow moisture to get to the underlaying copper which causes rapid galvanic corrosion which can destroy the plating surface, hence the barrier layer of nickel.
Add to that the fact that nickel is a piss-poor conductor, which when silver or gold plating (over copper) is involved, is thus directly in-line with the signal path, and you can then see exactly why I don't like plating high quality solid-copper connectors or binding posts, and would rather simply maintain the integrity of the bare copper, by keeping it clean.
Basically, the barrier layer of inferior nickel nullifies any advantage of the higher conductivity of the silver plating... This shows why your "simple physics" doesn't prove that silver-plated copper is automatically a better conductor than bare copper.
Marco.
This debate is never going to be acknowledged as being won by the 'simple physics' (science) of the materials involved because the ears rule ;) .
Just my opinion :) .
Dave.
In this instance, Dave, it's got nothing to do with that.
Quite simply, sandwiching an inferior conductivity metal (nickel) in between high-quality copper or silver, during the plating process, is not going to result in increased conductivity over that achieved by the bare copper itself.
That's a simple fact :)
Marco.
awkwardbydesign
28-08-2012, 17:10
I have a Homer Simpson T-shirt which reads "Facts are meaningless, they can be used to prove anything". I wanted to wear it to jury service, but didn't fancy a night in the cells for contempt. And before I'm accused of being flippant, "facts" are usually cherry picked to support a case, and often disputed too.
Marco, you may well be right but do you know that? - stranger things have happened. Of course it sounds illogical to think that sandwiching a lesser conductor layer between to better conductors will do anything other than reduce the conductivity of the whole and I strongly suspect you may be right. But that was not my point :) - I was inferring that we are straying towards a subjective versus objective roundabout. In other words, it does not matter which combination of materials or a single 'pure' material conducts electricity better, what matters is what your ears tell you.
If we then stray towards an opinion that a poorer conductor sounds better then we lay ourselves open to the suggestion that the connection is not totally transparent but rather, is either adding colouration or filtering something out of the sound. It then all starts getting very complicated I suggest.
Just my PoV.
Dave.
sq225917
28-08-2012, 17:28
I doubt conductivity of plated metals is quite as simple as that.
Nope, I doubt it is, which is why I'm more than happy to stick with my current (tried and tested) methods, worry not, and just enjoy the music! :cool:
Marco.
Of course it sounds illogical to think that sandwiching a lesser conductor layer between to better conductors will do anything other than reduce the conductivity of the whole and I strongly suspect you may be right. But that was not my point :) - I was inferring that we are straying towards a subjective versus objective roundabout. In other words, it does not matter which combination of materials or a single 'pure' material conducts electricity better, what matters is what your ears tell you.
Sure, Dave, but that's always the case in audio, no matter the subject! ;)
Marco.
I have a Homer Simpson T-shirt which reads "Facts are meaningless, they can be used to prove anything". I wanted to wear it to jury service, but didn't fancy a night in the cells for contempt. And before I'm accused of being flippant, "facts" are usually cherry picked to support a case, and often disputed too.
Talking about Courts of Law, how many times have we read about Prosecution and Defence both using expert witness testimony to 'prove' opposing opinions? Yep, cherry picking is a popular strategy in such situations :) .
Dave.
If there were actual Cherries to pick everyone would be happy, except those who don't like Cherries of course... :D
Mr Kipling
28-08-2012, 20:39
Its all been said before chaps.
Pure Silver
Pure copper
rest is not relevent
blardey blardey blah :lol:
Read this guys. (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/sitefiles/15/2/2/152201/On%20the%20Conductivity%20of%20Selected%20Metals.p df)
I was only looking for honest product that had what I was looking for and didn't cost the earth! I wasn't expecting The Spanish Inquisition!
"Ahh. . . No-one expects The Spanish Inquisition. . . "
David, yes I know it's all been said before. 30 years ago - that's 3 with a zero on the end - Hi Fi Answers was debating connectors/cables/plating and the effects they can have on sound quality. I remember someone rhodium-plating MK mains plugs and sockets - and an industry was born. The old round pin type was considered best because of the greater surface area.
Stanley B what you say is right of course. As little as a 6" lead of the finest cable known to man would have a greater resistance than brass connections connected to it. It's all relative though to my mind. What would you rather have on the end of your amp brass connections or some solid copper or silver ones? That reminds me. In the '80s B&W brought out a Silver Anniversary edition of some model. Solid silver was used from voice coil to binding posts (well, not sure about the crossover, to be honest.)
Marco, it might seem like little dosh to yourself, but when totalled up it does work out at nigh-on £100. That may be mere bagatelle to yourself, for me though I could do a lot more with it. It could get me a Nak!
I'm afraid the "Captain Nemo" look really doesn't do it for me either! I'm with Andrê! But to each his own. Would just point out that copper oxide is a semiconductor. On balance silver-plating should improve a copper cable as it's 9% more conductive. Due to skin effect most of the current flow tends to be along the outter edge; 63% according to wiki, rather than through the cable centre as such. If the silver plating is thick enough, the effects of the nickel base might be minimised, as most of the current flow will be along the silver plating.
When I first joined I mentioned having a Thorens 160 with Hadcock arm in the late '70s. The Hadcock had silver cartridge connectors which looked a tad black. Having some gold ones I thought I'd fit them - and possibley get an improvement in sound quality. Fitted them and had a listen only to find the reverse! Siight drop in detail, so put the silver ones back and was happy again. Never been a fan of gold ever since. Was it not Croft that would rather use nickel than gold!
Finally, years ago I remember reading one American valve amp manufacturer preferred to use the old screw-type speaker connector but felt compelled to use modern binding post because of consumer reaction.
Kind Regards,
Stephen
Ahharrr. . . Jim, lad.
Sorry! Wrong story
StanleyB
28-08-2012, 20:48
Finally, years ago I remember reading one American valve amp preferred to use the old screw-type speaker connector but felt compelled to use modern binding post because of consumer reaction.
So do I as it happens. My main integrated and main power amp are fitted with them. I even developed a special way of preparing the bare speaker cable ends so that they make as good as a connection as could be had.
brian2957
28-08-2012, 20:57
Judging by the low price of Nakamichi banana plugs I'd assumed they were plated brass. Looking on their website, however, it appears they are copper-based. Strangely enough, they don't give the material for their RCA plugs.
Kind Regards,
Stephen
I use these plugs Stephen and they are very good value for money IMO.
Mr Kipling
28-08-2012, 21:15
So do I as it happens. My main integrated and main power amp are fitted with them. I even developed a special way of preparing the bare speaker cable ends so that they make as good as a connection as could be had.
The first "real" amp I had was an Amstrad EX303 with din speaker sockets. I replaced them with a terminal block as it seemed the easiest most practical solution.
Amstrad, now we are talking. Way back in the day!
Mr Kipling
28-08-2012, 21:24
Amstrad, now we are talking. Way back in the day!
Still got it! Thought about putting a Naim clone inside!
Mr Kipling
09-09-2012, 20:27
My idea of some affordable "copper based" connectors.
The "Captain Nemo" look, is growing on me.
brian2957
09-09-2012, 20:40
Got a link for these Stephen ?
Mr Kipling
09-09-2012, 21:40
Hi Brian,
The item no. for the RCAs is 390466340600 and the seller is sunny_audio. The phonos are £13 for 4 inc. postage. The speaker posts were about £11.50 for 2, but they are now about £15.50 with postage.
There is a seller absystems09 who has a greater range of stuff with some nice areo-grade knobs.
I'll have to keep ferretting.
Kind Regards,
Stephen.
pete_mac
09-09-2012, 23:24
I've used the A&B Systems GaoFei binding posts on one of my Sansui AU-719 restorations. They are very nicely made indeed. They are either sourced from the same factory as the Furutech binding posts, or are an exact copy, such is the quality of their build. I would rate their physical build quality and attention to detail as superior to the solid copper CMC binding posts. I do, however, note that the A&B Systems GaoFeis are plated copper over brass, as opposed to solid copper.
CMC solid copper posts top, GaoFei/A&B Systems posts bottom.
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee359/petemacozfoz/au719rearcomparison.jpg
My idea of some affordable "copper based" connectors.
The "Captain Nemo" look, is growing on me.
Oooh, do you like a nice shiny knob, with a big copper bulb on it? Mmm... Do you? Would you like to polish it?? Mmm? You want to make it glow, like a beacon, don't you? Mmm...? Mmm...?? You dirty, dirty, boy!
:laugh:
Marco.
Mr Kipling
10-09-2012, 17:44
I've used the A&B Systems GaoFei binding posts on one of my Sansui AU-719 restorations. They are very nicely made indeed. They are either sourced from the same factory as the Furutech binding posts, or are an exact copy, such is the quality of their build. I would rate their physical build quality and attention to detail as superior to the solid copper CMC binding posts. I do, however, note that the A&B Systems GaoFeis are plated copper over brass, as opposed to solid copper.
CMC solid copper posts top, GaoFei/A&B Systems posts bottom.
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee359/petemacozfoz/au719rearcomparison.jpg
Hi Pete,
Thanks for the photo.
Sometimes feel like I'm between a rock and a hard plaice (One there for The Codfather.) with regards connectors and plugs. Sometimes wonder if it's really worth the faffing about.
Never been one for the shiney and glittery, Marko. Prefer the satin, matt look myself, as you'll see from below.
Did you hear the one about bloke that went fishing?
He did it -- just for the HALIBUT! Kept me amused for the last 40 years that joke.
Ho! Ho! Ho! It's the way a tell 'em! It's the way a tell 'em!
"Pineapple ring as well, please."
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