Lance no more

[wiicrackpot]

Shocked to wake up to hearing news he's giving up the fight, being one his greatest fans, he epitomises the ultimate tour rider and a born winner, interesting to see if the UCI follows suit and strips him of all titles after 1999, sad for him and sad day for cycling. :(

[Russell Turner]

I hope they do strip him of everything single thing he has won...

Seriously.

This year's Tour was excellent, the reason being, it was almost participated by clean, drug free riders (apart from the odd fool).

Unlike the Armstrong era, just check out "Mr Clean" taking on the biggest EPO user of our generation on Mount Ventoux in the 2000 Tour:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXPXHK7I1iQ

Clean my arse, the guy had the UCI, USADA, WADA all in his back pocket, proof in point his 1999 test being positive for EPO which got swept under the carpet and also not too mention most of his ex-team coming out and declaring the truth in the recent investigations.

The only downside of him getting stripped of his titles will be that some other doper like Jan Ullrich etc will get the Jersey:-


1999 - Eric Zulle one of the Festina crew, enough said...
2000 - Jan Ullrich another proven doper
2001 - As above Ullrich
2002 - Joseba Beloki associated with Operation Puerto sting
2003 - Ullrich again
2004 - Andreas Klöden, accused in 2009 of using blood transfusions in the 2006 Tour
2005 - Ivan Basso another associated with Operation Puerto sting and barred from riding the 2006 tour and subsequently banned later for two years


I have followed cycling and particularly the Tour de France (not much others got coverage unlike recently where cycling is in vogue) since the early 1980's and the Armstrong Era is certainly not one I have fond memories of, the whole thing has left me with a bad taste in the mouth and I am glad that finally it looks like the chickens are coming home to roost.

[wiicrackpot]

Fair enough if thats how you feel and it seems they will strip everything and rewrite the history book of that era,
what i will say is the drug problem has always been there long before Lance came along, he didn't drag Balco Labs with him when he hit the scene,
just remember the famous dying words of Mount Ventoux in the 60's ''put me on my bike'' when he collapsed off it,
thats how long cycling has had a dope problem.

TBH, i have been a closet fanboy (didn't want to admit it) :) of his since he came on the scene as a fledgling Tri-athlete and Triathlon was in it's infancy (yes all those years ago), i have always admired his professionalism,his application and sheer hardwork and undying spirit, thats how i want to remember him by.

As for his ex-teammates one of them went as far as trying to bribe him, when he didn't get his way he attempted to out him just before the TDF,
how low is that, now he's gone who will they talk about now before every TDF eh..

[Russell Turner]

now he's gone who will they talk about now before every TDF eh..

Eddy Merckx?

[wiicrackpot]

Eddy Merckx?
Did he do it too !!!:eek::D

[keiths]

Did he do it too !!!:eek::D

Yes, Merckx tested positive on several occasions and was kicked out of races (1969 Giro d'Italia and the 1973 Giro di Lombardia for instance) - but attitudes were different then and the drugs were much cruder - amphetomines and steroids mainly - I think it's fair to say that the performance enhancement Lance got over clean riders in his era would have been greater than that Merckx had over his peers - though most of them were doping too :rolleyes:

I always wanted to think that Lance was clean and for most of his career I believed that he was, but his failure to defend himself here is very much an admission of guilt in my opinion.

I don't know if the US Anti Doping people have the authority to strip him of his wins - I guess that will be up to the UCI and I haven't seen any statement from them yet today.

[Stratmangler]

It's not a cut and dried case http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/lancearmstrong/9496632/Lance-Armstrong-doping-case-by-USADA-needed-to-be-above-criticism-but-too-many-questions-left-unanswered.html

[Beechwoods]

I can understand someone who is financially secure, at the end of their athletic career, with very little to lose, going 'screw it, I can't be arsed to fight anymore'. I don't know the ins and outs of this case, but from what I've read he's not actually tested positive ever, and there seems to some battle of wills going on between him and the US Cycling professional body, Heaven knows how that came about...

[chelsea]

I'd prefer it if they made them take drugs.
Would make it a great event.

[wiicrackpot]

I don't know the ins and outs of this case, but from what I've read he's not actually tested positive ever, and there seems to some battle of wills going on between him and the US Cycling professional body, Heaven knows how that came about...
I don't think many people does either, it's been dredged up time and again that none of us are any clearer,
it seems the USADA are determined get him when he's been one of their greatest son's is despicable,
wonder if they would be as determined if he was a NFL or NBL superstars.



I'd prefer it if they made them take drugs.
Would make it a great event.
If thats the case they should've done it decades ago, remember reading an interview years ago where a very talented U.K. star
who went over to Europe to start a new pro career (Barry Hoban i think),
he was surprised to say the least that some of the riders were getting faster and faster at the end the race
when newbies around them was hitting the wall, sort of implied they were on something then. :eyebrows:

[Reid Malenfant]

I fail to understand this :scratch: As Nick said, the guy has never been caught doping in any tests...

So how can they say he was doping & strip him of the titles?


Does this mean any medal winner can be postumously accused of doping with no proof what so ever & stripped of their medals?

WTF? :mental:

[Tim]

The whole thing stinks to me, innocent until proven guilty for me and they ain't proved jack shit!

[wiicrackpot]

I fail to understand this :scratch: As Nick said, the guy has never been caught doping in any tests...

So how can they say he was doping & strip him of the titles?


Does this mean any medal winner can be postumously accused of doping with no proof what so ever & stripped of their medals?

WTF? :mental:
No there has been rumours that his sample as early as 1999 had tested positive but hushed up,
and then you get ex-teammates who claim to say they ''saw him do it'' or ''we did it together'' didn't help,
i mean statements from the likes of Floyd Landis are anything but creditable, he tried to blackmail Lance to hush up,
as if Lance would be stupid enough to do that. :mental:

It's difficult to strip their medals when the next line of riders are probably doinmg the same,
you'd end up giving the medal to the guy who finished 15th,:rolleyes: what a farce.

[wiicrackpot]

The whole thing stinks to me, innocent until proven guilty for me and they ain't proved jack shit!
In Lance's case it's always been Guilty until proven innocent, there's no chance of that now as they see this latest episode as a admittance of guilt.

[Reid Malenfant]

How can you be found guilty on hearsay? :scratch:

Apparently his mates got a little jealous :rolleyes:


At the end of the day they still have no proof, yet they are willing to f*ck someones life up... Jeez :mental:

[wiicrackpot]

How can you be found guilty on hearsay? :scratch:

Apparently his mates got a little jealous :rolleyes:


At the end of the day they still have no proof, yet they are willing to f*ck someones life up... Jeez :mental:
Right on Mark,

If whatever authorities find him guilty, he'd be the 1st to be found guilty through circumstantial evidence and testaments from tarnished sources,
hardly look good in the eyes of bystanders and peoples confidence in the UCI in dealing with dopers is it.

The whole thing's a farce that i feel they're as well closing the book and throw their weight on catching present day dopers and be more decisive when they are caught, guys like Contador should have had a heftier sentence, the time he spent away was insignificant, it's as if he's never been away, well thats my POV. :mental:

[sq225917]

The UCI will not revoke his titles unless there is proof, the say so of a disgraced rider already known as a cheat and incentivized to make a statement will not be enough for them. Regardless of what exists between the USADA, WADA and the UCI on paper, I believe the UCI will not rescind his status without hard incontrovertible proof.

Why? because they've got no one to give the 1st place and winners jerseys to. There's only 2 riders in 2nd place out of seven years who haven't been subsequently caught cheating. Do we really think they'll take the medals from Lance, who passed his tests to give to guys who failed subsequent tests and received bans, I don't think so.

Do any of us actually think they could fairly give it to any rider who has been tested less than Lance? Surely any prospective recipient would have to be found to be at least as clean as Lance, and that would mean the retesting of all of their samples going back a decade. Would anyone of that period be clean under the test accuracy available today? I do wonder.

On top of this is the fact that Le Tour isn't owned by the UCI, or WADA or the USADA and frankly Le Tour corp would probably just tell them to go and fuck themselves if they suggested that a bent trial in the USA, with banned riders as star witnesses had the authority to tell them what to do with their commercial entity.

As long as Lance stays away this 'trial' has no veracity, it carries no weight, it is just a collection of wannabe lawyers and banned, proven cheats trying to make names for themselves. The longer Lance stays away and ignores them the less important they become. Without his continued denials they haven't proven him guilty, to do that they need proof and for that proof to be credible. The only credibility they ever had was through his participation.

Do I think he cheated, yes I do. Does he deserve to lose his jerseys? Only if credible winners can be found who pass the exact same level of scrutiny that he has undergone. I doubt they exist within the top ten riders. Otherwise we should strike a line through it. Call this season the first clean Tour and move on.

He beat the tests, and beat the system.

[wiicrackpot]

Do I think he cheated, yes I do. Does he deserve to lose his jerseys? Only if credible winners can be found who pass the exact same level of scrutiny that he has undergone. I doubt they exist within the top ten riders. Otherwise we should strike a line through it. Call this season the first clean Tour and move on.

He beat the tests, and beat the system.
Very informative post Simon and every bit of it is well put, only quoted the closing 2 sentences as i don't want peeps to be reading it twice. :)

I'll just add to the highlighted bits,

1. Agreed
2. He didn't do it alone.

[jostber]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/24/lance-armstrong-damaged-hero-charity-brand
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/aug/24/how-lance-armstrong-strongarmed-cycling

[Beechwoods]

Doping was so rampant, it was still a level playing field, just one that was artificially lifted for a while.

[MikeMusic]

Shocked to wake up to hearing news he's giving up the fight, being one his greatest fans, he epitomises the ultimate tour rider and a born winner, interesting to see if the UCI follows suit and strips him of all titles after 1999, sad for him and sad day for cycling. :(

Catching up...

Yes, sad day
Seems the USADA convict on circumstance and 2 know doper, not evidence.
I earnestly hope, but doubt this is just a pause while he goes at them for $millions

[sq225917]

If you look at this years tour and calculate the KW/h/kg for the top riders you will see that they are all around 6.0, in previous years the best were all around 6.5.

Hands up anyone who think that almost the entire peleton caught the same cold that caused them to drop their max output by 7% for the duration of the tour?

[MikeMusic]

If you look at this years tour and calculate the KW/h/kg for the top riders you will see that they are all around 6.0, in previous years the best were all around 6.5.

Hands up anyone who think that almost the entire peleton caught the same cold that caused them to drop their max output by 7% for the duration of the tour?
At last some figures.
Interesting too
Where do you get them from ?

[wiicrackpot]

At last some figures.
Interesting too
Where do you get them from ?
My exact thought Mike, isn't it great we have Simon to dig deeper to get info for us surface feeders. :cool:

Sad as it is i don't believe Lance is clean either but as i've mentioned before, he's not in this alone,
if he admits/get found guilty, shit will hit the fan and a lot of people will be implicated.

[MikeMusic]

My exact thought Mike, isn't it great we have Simon to dig deeper to get info for us surface feeders. :cool:

Sad as it is i don't believe Lance is clean either but as i've mentioned before, he's not in this alone,
if he admits/get found guilty, shit will hit the fan and a lot of people will be implicated.
We need to know where he gets it !
:)
I desperately wanted Landis and Hamilton to be clean. Was so disappointed when it was found they weren't.
A few years ago I remember an interview with a cyclist of the time -sorry can't remember, before the 'clean era' who said they took their bodies so far past normal limits they had to have doctors looking after them, vitamin injections and others and it there was a grey area where they could err towards the illegal without knowing it.
Some drugs were (just ?) ok some years and not the next
I also remember a French guy who was bitten by a wasp or bee whose face came up like a balloon. About 2 days to go. He had to withdraw as he could not take the drugs to bring the swelling down and race legally. That was a terrible shame

If they want to do Lance then they should do it properly and they also need to do everyone else- in the world, and the UCI have to agree as well. That is Herculean

[wiicrackpot]

If they want to do Lance then they should do it properly and they also need to do everyone else- in the world, and the UCI have to agree as well. That is Herculean
As Hinault said, they should have done Lance 10 years ago, why keep going over it and drag cycling down as a druggie sport over and over again,
move on i'd say and concentrate on current one's, once caught act fast and go down hard on offenders.

[sq225917]

Yup it should be a lifetime ban for anyone taking synthetic drugs, possibly less for those cases where the drug occurs naturally.

I can't remember where I saw them but they were calculated on riders weights and times from climbing one of the big hills, Mt Ventout I think. I'll dig.

[MikeMusic]

As Hinault said, they should have done Lance 10 years ago, why keep going over it and drag cycling down as a druggie sport over and over again,
move on i'd say and concentrate on current one's, once caught act fast and go down hard on offenders.
Yes past is past. Go back maybe 5 years if they really must
I imagine Hinault used some 'aids' as it was more acceptable then
I guess if they were really serious they could knock out just about everyone from 2000 backwards. Perhaps the guys who came in 89th might be decalred the new winner.
Was it 1998 we had the sit downs by the peleton in the road ?
That was a major turning point

[MikeMusic]

Yup it should be a lifetime ban for anyone taking synthetic drugs, possibly less for those cases where the drug occurs naturally.

I can't remember where I saw them but they were calculated on riders weights and times from climbing one of the big hills, Mt Ventout I think. I'll dig.
Lifetime is harsh if it was an accident, but how to prove it
There are those that do it deliberately and those that have it done to them
6 months off for Contador is a sick joke

Be good to see the numbers

[sq225917]

With regard to naturally occurring ones I mean those which the body produces, any none natural analogs, ie those that can only be got inside you by injection or tablet should hold an instant lifetime ban. If you start making excuses and allowances for 'mistakes' then we'll never end it.

Agreed on Contador, the steroid he was found to have in his body isn't orally available and it is illegal in Europe to sell meat from animals that have been steroid injected within a minimal time frame. And that time frame is something like 10x the minimum 100% excretion period. ie it should be impossible to ingest steroids from meat legally prepared in Europe. They should have slapped the cheating twat with two years, 6 month for the drugs and another 18 for riding off from Andy Schlek...

[Natalie NWA]

2nd part of the interview is on tonight on discovery at 8.30. Cheat cheat cheat, that's alls I have to say, with regards to contador, Andy was robbed another big fat cheat.

Natalie;)

[sq225917]

I'm refusing to watch on moral grounds, I refuse to feed him oxygen.

[MikeMusic]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lance-armstrong--arrogant-and-unaware--did-little-to-repair-his-image-in-mea-culpa-with-oprah-062222144.html

[synsei]

There is a lot I could say but I'd rather like to stay a member of this forum. :steam:

[wiicrackpot]

There is a lot I could say but I'd rather like to stay a member of this forum. :steam:
Don't hold back Dave, we understand. :uhho:

Been a fan of his from early Triathlon days, prayed for him through his cancer fight and then on, :(
guess my Lance DVD's and book will be heading to the charity shop, :steam:
he's hoping to come back to competitive sport after this supposedly coming clean PR drive !!, not a chance,
not until he bare's all and name names and not be so arrogant in only doing it on his terms.

[MikeMusic]

Been a fan of his from early Triathlon days, prayed for him through his cancer fight and then on, :(


Didn't like him when I first saw him on the roads then I was converted and he became a hero.
Not so much now though :(

[wiicrackpot]

Didn't like him when I first saw him on the roads then I was converted and he became a hero.
Not so much now though :(
I can see that being the case, the talent he showed before he was coaxed to concentrate on Cycling, thereafter, his total professionalism,
his fighting spirit against all odds (starting to pale now), his application and meticulous preparation, his strong will and single minded doggedness and focus on the job ahead, his 'never say die' attitude, typifies the all conquering American Hero we came to know.

[MikeMusic]

I can see that being the case, the talent he showed before he was coaxed to concentrate on Cycling, thereafter, his total professionalism,
his fighting spirit against all odds (starting to pale now), his application and meticulous preparation, his strong will and single minded doggedness and focus on the job ahead, his 'never say die' attitude, typifies the all conquering American Hero we came to know.

He was a classic hero. Overcoming cancer and then the toughest guys in the cycling world.
Now you read and hear what a git he was :(

[synsei]

What really grinds my gears is that the f*cker has attempted to blame his cancer for the change in his personality. Now, I know a few people who have beaten the big 'C' and without question, they have all come out of it more humble human beings.

As much as I detest Armstrong as a person, he is deflecting the focus away from the rotten core within the sport which applied unbelievable pressure on participants to ride drugged. If a rider refused, the back door would open and out they'd go on the toe of a size 12 boot never to sit at the top table again. He needs to name names, and not on a bloody celebrity talk show...

[Marco]

All fair points - I can't stand the c*nt either, but is anyone else like me fed up hearing about this pish in the news? There are far more important and more serious things happening in the world than this tosser's pathetic ego-driven antics!!

Marco.

[wiicrackpot]

As much as I detest Armstrong as a person, he is deflecting the focus away from the rotten core within the sport which applied unbelievable pressure on participants to ride drugged. If a rider refused, the back door would open and out they'd go on the toe of a size 12 boot never to sit at the top table again. He needs to name names, and not on a bloody celebrity talk show...
:exactly: give him the Leveson treatment, not some comfy chat show nipping round the edges :steam:

[chelsea]

Make all cyclists ride on large amounts of mogadon.
Would be a far better sport to watch .

[MikeMusic]

All fair points - I can't stand the c*nt either, but is anyone else like me fed up hearing about this pish in the news? There are far more important and more serious things happening in the world than this tosser's pathetic ego-driven antics!!
Marco.

I see your point. That's how I see 90% of the news.
Don't watch it as I can't stand it -mostly puff or one sort or another so didn't know he had publicity in the UK.
He was a real hero. He is now less than zero being a liar, cheat, bullshitter, bully, Mr. Unpleasant.
A lot of people looked up to that guy and now wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire

Quick look at bbc.co.uk
Algeria ends in the blood bath I feared but hoped would not happen
Snow cancels flights. It's Winter in the North Atlantic. Get over it.
Blockbuster closes more stores - almost to script
The French say Africans must join in the fight in Mali. (the French ?..)
What's in your beef burger ? Dead animals. Oh no not horses ! Get over it or go veggie

A good one !
Angel Rangel and his wife have been praised after driving around the snowy streets of Swansea on Friday night looking for homeless people to help.
Rangel is in danger "of giving footballers a good name" - quite !

My 'news' is very late from out of date New Scientists I try to catch up on.
The news is :
It's unlikely to go on for much longer anything like this - if at all and it won't end well for the human race.
No need to save the planet it will still be here. Us lot ? Marginal

Few more punters like Rangel got out there wouldn't that be good ?

Here's the opposite.
A guy most people used to dislike or hate. Now he really is a super hero
http://profit.ndtv.com/news/people/article-bill-gates-i-have-no-use-for-money-316519
Bill Gates: I have no use for money
"Having already given away $28 billion, the 57-year-old Microsoft co-founder now intends to eradicate polio"
This guy is not messing around
He should be on the news every day, get a few more to join in

[synsei]

Now there is a man who is giving back to the system way more than he took out of it. Well done Bill... :cool:

[Tim]

I have never disliked Bill Gates, the only person I dislike in that sphere was Steve Jobs. I admire his visionary mind, I just didn't like the way he went about things.

As for Lance, well lets say I don't view him as a hero at all and like Marco, I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing his shite bollocks drivel, don't give the wanker air time, get him into court and strip him of every single asset he has, then throw his arse in jail to rot. Might be a good idea to put his nadgers in a vice and rub them with a cheese grater too :eek:

[goraman]

Lance is crap,
He sued a lot of people that simply told the truth and destroyed a lot of lives and kept athletes who competed honestly from the win they earned rightfully.
Not to mention hooking up with nasty Crow.
I saw him in an interview with Oprah and he seemed to show no emotion at all.
In my humble opinion,he's either on a lot of meds or totally void of feelings.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/lance-armstrong-lied-oprah-cover-crimes-investigators/story?id=18245484


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/18/oprah-winfrey-s-best-lance-armstrong-interview-moments-video.html

[Natalie NWA]

Lance is crap,
He sued a lot of people that simply told the truth and destroyed a lot of lives and kept athletes who competed honestly from the win they earned rightfully.
Not to mention hooking up with nasty Crow.
I saw him in an interview with Oprah and he seemed to show no emotion at all.
In my humble opinion,he's either on a lot of meds or totally void of feelings.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/lance-armstrong-lied-oprah-cover-crimes-investigators/story?id=18245484


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/18/oprah-winfrey-s-best-lance-armstrong-interview-moments-video.html
That is exactly the impression I got. Completely delusional, this was just for the people who have banned him from sport, winging like a big kid because of his life time ban. Pathetic

[goraman]

1 more.
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/01/18/lance-armstrong-makes-apologies-on-oprah-but-no-mention-sheryl-crow/
If he had an ounce of self respect,he would shut up, give all his money to the people he messed over and never even look at another bike again.

His interview should have been very short.
And something like this.


I was a total Ass to everyone who trusted me,my wife,my fellow cyclists,my sponcers ,fans and pretty much everyone connected with me in any way.
I am a lire,cheat and have acted despicably.
I am going to spend the rest of my life trying to repair the damage I've done, I am truly and hart fully sorry please find it in you to forgive me in some time as i want to make things as right as humanly possible.
I humbly ask for mercy and forgiveness.

That should have been the whole interview.
Then began dispersing his assets to all those he wrongfully sued and damaged.

[John]

I really hope those he sued for telling the truth get every penny back
Like Tim and Marco I am fed up with the Lance show; this is him trying to control again

[MikeMusic]

I really hope those he sued for telling the truth get every penny back
Like Tim and Marco I am fed up with the Lance show; this is him trying to control again

I like the control I have watching TV offline with the Tivo.
Never watch live anymore
If I watched the news I could whizz through the Lance bit as I do with ad breaks and boring bits