The 'High End', what's the most expensive system you can buy

[walpurgis]

Hi all, we hear the term 'High End', usually used totally in the wrong context. But what is the real High End? What are the most expensive systems you can assemble? Me, I'd be looking towards companies like Wilson and Audio Note etc., but I'm sure some of you out there will have other ideas.

[John]

I perfer the bespoke items I have
My aim would be to have everything bespoke

[Kvaal]

I have read that when you use a high end system, the music reveals itself in the room, and you can't hear it coming from the speakers. This is IMHO possible in budget systems with sorted components tweaked and well put together.

[chelsea]

Definitve may be a good pace to start.

[purite audio]

First step is probablya purposely designed listening room, then a system built to your preference, best system I have heard is five way horns, 16 x15" dynamic drivers
dealing with the sub 60Hz bass.
Keith.

[Alan Sircom]

Pretty simple really.

Continuum Caliburn turntable, Cobra arm and Castellon equipment table
Koetsu Coralstone Platinum cartridge
Constellation Reference Series electronics
Wilson Audio Alexandria XLF, with a pair of Wilson Thor's Hammer subwoofers
Crystal Cables Absolute Dream cables (if you want to spend even more than the ones supplied by Constellation)

That'll get you to around a million quid, give or take. Mostly give. That's a pretty easy system without giving it too much thought, because it's all from one distributor.

If you want more, you need to go off piste. I think they top out at around two mil at the moment. Usually at that kind of level, you'll have spent half a mil or more on the room, and have another similar investment in a home cinema. Not a home cinema system, a cinema at home.

[YNWaN]

What I would say about hi- end systems, and individual components in general, is that their character/strengths/weaknesses are often significantly more pronounced than with 'budget' systems.

[walpurgis]

Would you be saying that they give a more accurate rendition of their faults?

[YNWaN]

More pronounced

For both good and bad

[daytona600]

on youtube - six million dollar home theatre

[walpurgis]

More pronounced

For both good and bad

I was pulling your leg. But I do know what you're getting at. Its the component characteristics and interreaction that becomes more evident.

[bkgengwe]

I don't think there's any reason to spend more than this system:
speakers: by now my evil lust for B&W 802D's is well documented, someboy deliver me from this evil lust.
CDP: audiolab 8000C
PreAmp: Parasound halo JC2
Amp: parasound halo A21.

I repeat I dont think there's any reason to spend more than this system and it costs, by todays exchange rate, about 15K pounds!!

[Mr Kipling]

Amstrad. . . Bush. . . Fidelity. . .

[Alan Sircom]

I don't think there's any reason to spend more than this system:
speakers: by now my evil lust for B&W 802D's is well documented, someboy deliver me from this evil lust.
CDP: audiolab 8000C
PreAmp: Parasound halo JC2
Amp: parasound halo A21.

I repeat I dont think there's any reason to spend more than this system and it costs, by todays exchange rate, about 15K pounds!!

Is your statement based on hours and hours of personal experience in your own home, or minutes of cursory checks of high-end gear at shows?

Having done the former, I'd say a well-installed £15k system in the right room gets about 90-95% of the way toward what a really good and well-installed £100k+ system can deliver. Not in every case, and there are always systems that deliver a lot for a little and ones that deliver a little for a lot. Generally though, what that additional money buys you is some reasonably uncontentious improvements in key performance aspects (low frequency response, dynamic range, greater volume headroom without distortion or changes in timbre or tone).

Spending an exponential amount of money for seemingly small returns on that investment might seem like poor value to you. But to those who want the best and are prepared to pay for it, those last few percent are as important as the difference between a Toyota and an S-Class Mercedes. Or even the difference between a family member and a chimpanzee.

[walpurgis]

What have you got against chimpanzees Alan?

[Alan Sircom]

What have you got against chimpanzees Alan?

Nothing, but they aren't family.

They are always muscling up to the bars of their cages, screaming and throwing poo over everyone. And the chimpanzees are even worse.

[Macca]

What have you got against chimpanzees Alan?

They don't buy many hi-fi magazines?

[Alan Sircom]

They don't buy many hi-fi magazines?

You'd be surprised. We're really popular among the higher primates. Not so big with ring-tailed lemurs though... they seem to spend most of their time tweeting about insects and fruit.

[Macca]

Well that figures. I always suspected there was some monkey business going on...

[bkgengwe]

Is your statement based on hours and hours of personal experience in your own home, or minutes of cursory checks of high-end gear at shows?

Having done the former, I'd say a well-installed £15k system in the right room gets about 90-95% of the way toward what a really good and well-installed £100k+ system can deliver. Not in every case, and there are always systems that deliver a lot for a little and ones that deliver a little for a lot. Generally though, what that additional money buys you is some reasonably uncontentious improvements in key performance aspects (low frequency response, dynamic range, greater volume headroom without distortion or changes in timbre or tone).

Spending an exponential amount of money for seemingly small returns on that investment might seem like poor value to you. But to those who want the best and are prepared to pay for it, those last few percent are as important as the difference between a Toyota and an S-Class Mercedes. Or even the difference between a family member and a chimpanzee.

nothing personal mate;)!but some of us can only dream about systems worth 100K, by the way that would translate into R1500000.00!!!:eek:that's a lot more than the mortgage value of my flat. my intention was not to derile highend gear. in my circle, the system I specified is already considered unreasonably expensive!! yes i understand that some people are fascinated by listening to how many millimeters the singers lips are from the mike or the last shimmer of the triangle and they get their kicks from determining those things accurately! whereas for me, even when I go to a live concert, I don't spend the evening worried about the shimmer of the triangles or such things, funny enough, I'm not even worried about the low frequency control at all! my point is, each one to his own, I was merely stating my dream system and how much realistically I would spend if I had the money to start with! by the way I have a friend who insists caviar is the best thing to happen to this worls, whilst to me it's just a roe of norwegian salmon !! but he knows that I'm okay if he wants to spend silly money on a roe of norwegian salmon.

[Alan Sircom]

nothing personal mate;)!but some of us can only dream about systems worth 100K, by the way that would translate into R1500000.00!!!:eek:that's a lot more than the mortgage value of my flat. my intention was not to derile highend gear. in my circle, the system I specified is already considered unreasonably expensive!! yes i understand that some people are fascinated by listening to how many millimeters the singers lips are from the mike or the last shimmer of the triangle and they get their kicks from determining those things accurately! whereas for me, even when I go to a live concert, I don't spend the evening worried about the shimmer of the triangles or such things, funny enough, I'm not even worried about the low frequency control at all! my point is, each one to his own, I was merely stating my dream system and how much realistically I would spend if I had the money to start with! by the way I have a friend who insists caviar is the best thing to happen to this worls, whilst to me it's just a roe of norwegian salmon !! but he knows that I'm okay if he wants to spend silly money on a roe of norwegian salmon.

Those who buy expensive audio are no more or less likely to be obsessed by minutiae as those who buy audio equipment at any price. They also simply want something good (whatever their personal definition of 'good' is) and are working to a different set of price constraints. Or, in some rare cases, no price constraints whatsoever.

I'm kicking off on this because the OP was asking 'what's the most expensive?' not 'what is your personal price ceiling'?. If you were asked what is the most expensive car you can buy, you'd be likely to say a Bugatti Veyron or perhaps a minty Duesenberg Model J or Ferrari GTO.

Would "there's no reason to spend more than the cost of a Lexus" materially add anything, apart from inverted snobbery?

[Mr Kipling]

Alan Sircom! As I live and breathe!. . . Used to like reading your articles in The Audiophile.

Something I've always wanted to ask someone like yourself. Being exposed to high quality gear, how easy is it then to go back to the day-to-day mundane stuff?

Kind Regards,
Stephen

[bobbasrah]

Often wondered what high-end actually means, but I have the same issue with bespoke and transparent as adjectives. It tends to infer beyond those of normal/moderate means....

Folks with unlimited resources can afford whatever they wish and however rare they mights have been they are a rising and expanding tribe it seems. You cannot help but feel envious, it is human nature.... The motoring equivalent would I suppose be lusting over that gorgeous Ferrari, despite the fact that it would not utterly impractical to take the week's shopping from Tescos, and the insurance would be a killer.....

Always puts me in mind of the two Ronnies and John Cleese sketch about class.... Unfortunately it is copyright etc.....

[Alan Sircom]

Alan Sircom! As I live and breathe!. . . Used to like reading your articles in The Audiophile.

Something I've always wanted to ask someone like yourself. Being exposed to high quality gear, how easy is it then to go back to the day-to-day mundane stuff?

Kind Regards,
Stephen

It's very easy. Drink yourself into a stupor. When the hangover clears, you've reset yourself.

[Alex_UK]

I do love your sense of humour Alan! :lol:

[Mr Kipling]

It's very easy. Drink yourself into a stupor. When the hangover clears, you've reset yourself.

As easy as that! And there was me thinking it would be some torturous ordeal.

[Alan Sircom]

As easy as that! And there was me thinking it would be some torturous ordeal.

Well, there is the optional human sacrifice...

[Mr. C]

Well, there is the optional human sacrifice...


Though listening to a pair of bridged Devliets feeding a pair of Q1's comes pretty close there Alan :rolleyes:

Conversely Tannoy Westminster’s in a 15 foot square room with 12W of average Chinese valves and a Japanese TT tweaked to within an inch of direct drive gear life.

Mind you, the genuine people that actually own these systems of magnitude would never have the time to worry about posting such crassness on an internet forum I am reliably informed :)

You can listen to damn fine engaging music on a well matched and carefully set up system for around £3000.

Not sure why you would need a large American multi driver equipped behemoth which looks like an alien robots' defecation powered by 3 terra-watts of WWII pill box with a cute blue LED.

When all you need is a R- dac, Icon audio 845's and pair of Harbeths to be thoroughly contented, shame on you Mr Sircom for suggesting otherwise :mental: ;)

[Alan Sircom]

Often wondered what high-end actually means, but I have the same issue with bespoke and transparent as adjectives. It tends to infer beyond those of normal/moderate means....

Folks with unlimited resources can afford whatever they wish and however rare they mights have been they are a rising and expanding tribe it seems. You cannot help but feel envious, it is human nature.... The motoring equivalent would I suppose be lusting over that gorgeous Ferrari, despite the fact that it would not utterly impractical to take the week's shopping from Tescos, and the insurance would be a killer.....

Always puts me in mind of the two Ronnies and John Cleese sketch about class.... Unfortunately it is copyright etc.....

The terms 'high-end' and 'high performance' got inextricably linked in the 1980s. It's possible to get high performance with or without the high prices, but 'high-end' is harder to isolate from the price of the product. A high-end product in any sector (not just audio) can be a Veblen good - its status is defined by its price and the exclusivity that price brings.

Of course 'high-end' can also mean 'high performance', and there are a number of excellent products that are expensive because getting that kind of performance is intrinsically expensive. It would be difficult to make something that performs like a Graham tonearm (for example) to the same quality and not have it cost about as much as a Graham tonearm.

[Alan Sircom]

Though listening to a pair of bridged Devliets feeding a pair of Q1's comes pretty close there Alan :rolleyes:

Conversely Tannoy Westminster’s in a 15 foot square room with 12W of average Chinese valves and a Japanese TT tweaked to within an inch of direct drive gear life.

Mind you, the genuine people that actually own these systems of magnitude would never have the time to worry about posting such crassness on an internet forum I am reliably informed :)

You can listen to damn fine engaging music on a well matched and carefully set up system for around £3000.

Not sure why you would need a large American multi driver equipped behemoth which looks like an alien robots' defecation powered by 3 terra-watts of WWII pill box with a cute blue LED.

When all you need is a R- dac, Icon audio 845's and pair of Harbeths to be thoroughly contented, shame on you Mr Sircom for suggesting otherwise :mental: ;)

Devialet is an interesting moving target. Every time you think you've got it pinned down, they go and update the firmware and it shifts the goalposts once more. As this is done free of charge, I'm still impressed with the whole plan.

I know it's not for everyone, but it does knock out a lot of the solid-state competition.

Tannoy Westies in a small room is nothing! Stacked quads in a room so small your eyebrows crackle when they played, driven a pair of Futterman OTLs running off a floor full of car batteries, with the turntable and preamp suspended from the ceiling by bass guitar strings... now that's dedication.

Curiously, he was single.

No, the people who buy the good stuff don't go on forums. They send their butler to send his butler to go on forums for them.

And yes, £3k will buy you a fine system. Hell, £1k and some careful matching will do the trick.

However, my thumbnail take on this is spend a fifth of what you spent on your car on you audio gear. If you are driving round in a 1974 Morris Marina in 'Harvest Gold' (British Leyland pisspuke green) with a floorpan made of gaffer tape and rust, make that what you would spend on a new equivalent. I find it a bit odd when someone hangs around an audio forum like a fart in a camper van, proudly sticking to his 20 year old Sony ES amp he got off eBay for a tenner, and yet drives a new BMW 5-series during the day, rides around on a £12,000 Fireblade on the weekend, has £20,000 worth of random bits that might one day form an AC Cobra replica kit car in the garage and dreams of owning a Vantage.

But American time-trumpet mondo drive unit woo-hoo rodeo clown eight foot tall six foot deep gonzo gas guzzler grandiose yeeeee-hah loudspeakers are fun at times. As are petawatt two ton toob amps that look like they came out of a 1950s Russian submarine. They are the audio equivalent of a steak and eggs breakfast. Just more so.

And yes, shame on me for enjoying stuff that doesn't fit the profile.

[walpurgis]

All I asked was what's the most expensive system you can buy, but I seem to have generated a debate about the fundamental philosophy of Hi-Fi itself.

And, yes I would also like to give Devaliet amplification a whirl!

[Alan Sircom]

All I asked was what's the most expensive system you can buy, but I seem to have generated a debate about the fundamental philosophy of Hi-Fi itself.

And, yes I would also like to give Devaliet amplification a whirl!

It's the Drift effect, named after the internet pioneer, Fred Drift.

[chelsea]

And his brother getmy.

[Mr. C]

Devialet is an interesting moving target. Every time you think you've got it pinned down, they go and update the firmware and it shifts the goalposts once more. As this is done free of charge, I'm still impressed with the whole plan.

I know it's not for everyone, but it does knock out a lot of the solid-state competition.

Tannoy Westies in a small room is nothing! Stacked quads in a room so small your eyebrows crackle when they played, driven a pair of Futterman OTLs running off a floor full of car batteries, with the turntable and preamp suspended from the ceiling by bass guitar strings... now that's dedication.

Curiously, he was single.

No, the people who buy the good stuff don't go on forums. They send their butler to send his butler to go on forums for them.

And yes, £3k will buy you a fine system. Hell, £1k and some careful matching will do the trick.

However, my thumbnail take on this is spend a fifth of what you spent on your car on you audio gear. If you are driving round in a 1974 Morris Marina in 'Harvest Gold' (British Leyland pisspuke green) with a floorpan made of gaffer tape and rust, make that what you would spend on a new equivalent. I find it a bit odd when someone hangs around an audio forum like a fart in a camper van, proudly sticking to his 20 year old Sony ES amp he got off eBay for a tenner, and yet drives a new BMW 5-series during the day, rides around on a £12,000 Fireblade on the weekend, has £20,000 worth of random bits that might one day form an AC Cobra replica kit car in the garage and dreams of owning a Vantage.

But American time-trumpet mondo drive unit woo-hoo rodeo clown eight foot tall six foot deep gonzo gas guzzler grandiose yeeeee-hah loudspeakers are fun at times. As are petawatt two ton toob amps that look like they came out of a 1950s Russian submarine. They are the audio equivalent of a steak and eggs breakfast. Just more so.

And yes, shame on me for enjoying stuff that doesn't fit the profile.


Indeed so Alan

The dedicated audiophile who feels that a 2 in morning output transformer change of his Kondo replica is full justified, and 'Mullard' the cat has no right to whine about not being feed best "dreamies" because of his latest sacred purchase from the land of ex intercontinental ballistic missiles.

Single Alan? I believe the correct terminology is confirmed bachelor

Though judging by the number of Asian and eastern European woman at hifi show's in the last four years, I would say the business in supplying hifi brides was alive and booming :)

With regard to the footman's place in the line (great if under rated Purple ditty from the Who do you think we are album) on broadcasting his line manager (the Butler's) master's audio appendages on the new fangled inter web is still a bit of a mystery for him.

Beside Tarquin is too busy thrashing a pair of prime Philly’s around Daddies country pile to worry about a Rory Gregory style ego trip on an audio forum. It’s just not the done thing along Eton's hallowed dormitories.

Moving on to the middle management sector, as highlighted by your goodself.

A term of endearment was coined many moons ago by a well worn jaded chappie by the name of Chip Valender, the affectionate term was
"Biker-less biker"

The chap that hung around with the local two wheeled hooligan’s on a Friday night. Casually sipping hot Oxo, outside a local night club venue waiting for the 'ladies' of the moment to vacate the rather stunning plaice of tunes.

He had all the right gear, the Simpson Star wars helmet, (custom paint job), the Dianese jacket and matching strides, yet the key ingredient to the whole package was missing, the bike.

Always cadging a lift, on a run trying to keep up with his Dolomite Sprint in turgid (Copyright Graeme Naylor 2002) vomit green and look cool in the process, though never quite managing it.


Seems he has migrated to your 520D weekday slog to work, and the freedom of the Blade at the weekend.

However the purchase of quality hifi remains an elusive dream.
with the advent of work time inter-web surfing (peak times 9.15 to 5.30) and his amazing ability to check his normal third tier managerial post stead eddy level personality in at the desk.

The mild mannered sales /project / administration manager turns into a level 32 Keyboard warrior with Teflon armour, a tower of iron will.
Weapons rivalling an ego whip coupled with a lance of pure sarcasm and a scathing mace.
An all knowing and seeing pillar of the internet community, who's truth, righteousness and the all American way backing them

There tenacious ability to burrow under the skin of mere mortal is the stuff of legends.

So what have we gleaned from all this?

Does a system that portrays Eric Clapton (out) delete as per you will as a 21 foot stage projection with a dynamic force that rival's a sonic pulse form a US military’s secret weapon's projects from the late 80's?

Or the inability to actually state a reasond opinion without fear of finical reporcussions?

All this and so much more on the next episode of audio Soap.

[Mike]

Devialet is an interesting moving target. Every time you think you've got it pinned down, they go and update the firmware and it shifts the goalposts once more. As this is done free of charge, I'm still impressed with the whole plan.

I know it's not for everyone, but it does knock out a lot of the solid-state competition.

Tannoy Westies in a small room is nothing! Stacked quads in a room so small your eyebrows crackle when they played, driven a pair of Futterman OTLs running off a floor full of car batteries, with the turntable and preamp suspended from the ceiling by bass guitar strings... now that's dedication.

Curiously, he was single.

No, the people who buy the good stuff don't go on forums. They send their butler to send his butler to go on forums for them.

And yes, £3k will buy you a fine system. Hell, £1k and some careful matching will do the trick.

However, my thumbnail take on this is spend a fifth of what you spent on your car on you audio gear. If you are driving round in a 1974 Morris Marina in 'Harvest Gold' (British Leyland pisspuke green) with a floorpan made of gaffer tape and rust, make that what you would spend on a new equivalent. I find it a bit odd when someone hangs around an audio forum like a fart in a camper van, proudly sticking to his 20 year old Sony ES amp he got off eBay for a tenner, and yet drives a new BMW 5-series during the day, rides around on a £12,000 Fireblade on the weekend, has £20,000 worth of random bits that might one day form an AC Cobra replica kit car in the garage and dreams of owning a Vantage.

But American time-trumpet mondo drive unit woo-hoo rodeo clown eight foot tall six foot deep gonzo gas guzzler grandiose yeeeee-hah loudspeakers are fun at times. As are petawatt two ton toob amps that look like they came out of a 1950s Russian submarine. They are the audio equivalent of a steak and eggs breakfast. Just more so.

And yes, shame on me for enjoying stuff that doesn't fit the profile.

Excellent! :rfl:

I'm just off to find some lint free cloth. There's some wee that needs cleaning up!

[walpurgis]

Well, I don't know what to say.

After all this lot I'm going to change tack and start a thread asking what's the cheapest used, proper Hi-Fi system!

[Spectral Morn]

Tony has such away with words.


But American time-trumpet mondo drive unit woo-hoo rodeo clown eight foot tall six foot deep gonzo gas guzzler grandiose yeeeee-hah loudspeakers are fun at times. As are petawatt two ton toob amps that look like they came out of a 1950s Russian submarine. They are the audio equivalent of a steak and eggs breakfast. Just more so. Priceless :lol:

[amsterdam]

Pretty simple really.

Continuum Caliburn turntable, Cobra arm and Castellon equipment table
Koetsu Coralstone Platinum cartridge
Constellation Reference Series electronics
Wilson Audio Alexandria XLF, with a pair of Wilson Thor's Hammer subwoofers
Crystal Cables Absolute Dream cables (if you want to spend even more than the ones supplied by Constellation)

That'll get you to around a million quid, give or take. Mostly give. That's a pretty easy system without giving it too much thought, because it's all from one distributor.

If you want more, you need to go off piste. I think they top out at around two mil at the moment. Usually at that kind of level, you'll have spent half a mil or more on the room, and have another similar investment in a home cinema. Not a home cinema system, a cinema at home.

Have you prematurely revealed Ricardo's latest agency (Constellation Audio)?

[MartinT]

I think the O/P is flawed. I could understand the question "what is the best system you could have", and then we would all argue endlessly about what that might be. However, asking for the most expensive system is almost limitless and certainly not guaranteed to be the best. I very much doubt that a million Pounds or even two represents the ceiling for some bespoke systems.

Perhaps a relative question makes more sense, and is one that Alan in particular could reply to: "How much better would a £100k system be than my £50k system? What about a £1M system?"

P.S. I'm always pleased to report that I spent more on my system than on my brand new BMW :)

[Mr. C]

Have you prematurely revealed Ricardo's latest agency (Constellation Audio)?


At Munich earlier this year, the very gentleman and his ontourage were in that room, a business aquaintence and myself were discussing it was like watching a 'Great white shark circling his prey, before moving in for the kill'

Looks like it may of now happened :lol:

[YNWaN]

There's quite a penchant for 'stream of consciousness' vignette style posting in this thread.

[walpurgis]

I think the O/P is flawed. I could understand the question "what is the best system you could have", and then we would all argue endlessly about what that might be. However, asking for the most expensive system is almost limitless and certainly not guaranteed to be the best. I very much doubt that a million Pounds or even two represents the ceiling for some bespoke systems.

Perhaps a relative question makes more sense, and is one that Alan in particular could reply to: "How much better would a £100k system be than my £50k system? What about a £1M system?"

P.S. I'm always pleased to report that I spent more on my system than on my brand new BMW :)

No, my question was exactly that. How much can you spend?

Regardless of whether it would be a recommended selection of equipment. Assuming it was a two speaker, stereo set-up I suppose. If you go into home theatre and the like, it rather moves the goalposts.

Remember, some people have more money than they know what to do with and would spend as much as possible, just because they can.

I came across an example of that this week, a friend of mine is on a flat refurbishment contract in London and about £500,000 worth of work was written off at the client's cost, simply because he'd changed his mind about what he wanted.


I think the system Alan has outlined is probably not far off the mark, by the way.

[Alan Sircom]

Perhaps a relative question makes more sense, and is one that Alan in particular could reply to: "How much better would a £100k system be than my £50k system? What about a £1M system?"

That is a good and interesting question. And probably not one that ends with the expected answer.

I think you can get a pretty much universally 'good' system that does it all for not that much. A few grand well spent will give you a system that returns almost all everyone wants. A few more grand will give you a range of systems that can do the same in almost any room and at almost any volume level.

After this, things get very specific. You'll produce a system that will do one or two aspects of the overall performance superbly, at the expense of some of the others. At this level, you are tailoring the system to suit your specific needs. To the muggles, this will still sound 'awesome' but it's why people who are into audio 'get' some high-end systems and not others.

So, a £20k system might sound universally good, where a £50k system might be idiosyncratic and a £100k system even more so. If you like that particular idiosyncrasy, you'll think the £50k system is better and the £100k system is better still. If you don't, you'll wonder what all the fuss is about.

It's possible to come full circle, and produce a system that excels in the key aspects you want from a system and do extremely well in other aspects. That's one of the things very high-end systems offer. With mixed success.

With the exception of the Hart Audio gold loudspeakers (!) the West is relatively free from the top-end of the high-end. Most of the millionaire and beyond equipment doesn't even have a price in sterling, or euros. There are a handful of people who routinely spend in the low hundreds in system building, but AFAIK no-one regularly drops millions on audio here. Most of that happens in HK and Singapore, and increasingly Mumbai. As for Rio, that's mostly multi-million dollar custom install systems.

[MartinT]

So a pair of Chord SPM-14000 monoblocks at a cool £25k each don't qualify? I can't imagine ever needing more, unless I was going to drive the Olympic stadium sound system :eek:

http://www.bluebirdmusic.com/SPM14000Mk2.jpg

[walpurgis]

Of course you need more Martin. You need four SPM-14000 amplifers to bi-amp with!

[Alan Sircom]

So a pair of Chord SPM-14000 monoblocks at a cool £25k each don't qualify? I can't imagine ever needing more, unless I was going to drive the Olympic stadium sound system :eek:

http://www.bluebirdmusic.com/SPM14000Mk2.jpg

Not if you are looking at things from a purely cost basis. There are power amps for sale in the UK that cost 5x as much. And technically you could get a pair of Goldmund Telos 5000, which pump out 5kW and cost something close to half a million dollars (UK price £who knows).

[Macca]

No matter how much or how good it is there is still a bottleneck when it come to the recording. The ultimate would be better quality recordings. How about buying the rights to all of your collection and then re-mastering them to your own taste? Then buy a pressing plant and press your own records to super-high standards. Now what's that gonna cost?

[walpurgis]

I get your point. Bit like having a great camera and a crap printer.

[f1eng]

A simple player/DAC/analogue preamp/pair of monoblocks top speaker from Goldmund is over $1m plus tax. Active is a lot more.
They seem to have given up on Europe, trebled their prices and sell in the East.

[f1eng]

No matter how much or how good it is there is still a bottleneck when it come to the recording. The ultimate would be better quality recordings. How about buying the rights to all of your collection and then re-mastering them to your own taste? Then buy a pressing plant and press your own records to super-high standards. Now what's that gonna cost?

It seems to me that with the burgeoning download market it would be not much more expensive for record labels to make available two different mixes of each recording. One compressed and undynamic for noisy environments such as cars and earbuds-on-the-bus, and another with a 10dB lower average level and dynamics, for listening at home.
Cost of double the disc space on their server and some mastering time.
I'd love it if they would.

[Reid Malenfant]

So a pair of Chord SPM-14000 monoblocks at a cool £25k each don't qualify? I can't imagine ever needing more, unless I was going to drive the Olympic stadium sound system :eek:

http://www.bluebirdmusic.com/SPM14000Mk2.jpg
Don't look at me... Who happens to have a 14KW amp sitting in his front room as he types :rfl:

Ah, but I'll only ever use a maximum of just over 4KW of it & I doubt I'll ever even hit that if the truth be known :eyebrows:

Krell MRA monos might well bust the bank as well as a few big blokes backs while they're at it.

Not sure of the cost when new, but if you need to ask then you couldn't afford them :lol:

[Macca]

Yes - sort of the opposite of the 'radio mixes' they used to do. As you say, not difficult or expensive for them to do and would open up a global premium niche market I suspect.

[MartinT]

It seems to me that with the burgeoning download market it would be not much more expensive for record labels to make available two different mixes of each recording. One compressed and undynamic for noisy environments such as cars and earbuds-on-the-bus, and another with a 10dB lower average level and dynamics, for listening at home.

It's a lovely idea, Frank, but do we have many recording engineers left who know what they're doing? You can't make a good mix from crap input.

[bkgengwe]

I'm fortunate to have friends who have systems that costs in the stratospheres, they claim their gear can accurately replicate what the sound engineer intended or concert hall venue. each one claims their system can accurately locate the location of the musician with pin point accuracy, after much debate about how much each one spends on their power cables just to achieve that, we agreed to make measurements,hey! so we brought along music that we were familiar with and made measurements, one system showed that miles davis was standing 25.76043999 millimeters to the right from canonball adderly on freddie free loader(from kind of bluekind of blue) and the other system showed it was actually 25,760439987millimeters, we repeated these tests over and over again, then we changed power cable, 25K pounds power cales, then the whole dynamics changed, miles davis was actually on the left of cannonball!!! the game went on an on and we couldn't come to the conclusion of where actually the musicians were standing with regard to the other!!! then we had a look at the album insert booklet, actually miles davis was standing in front, about 2m of john coltrane, and cannonball was standing about 3m behind everybody else....then we did the concert hall venue test, we went to a concert once and immediately bought the cd's and dvd'd they were recording at the concert, we tried to locate the pianist from our memory but each system placed the pianist way way from where we knew he was, what's more we couldn't achieve the desired decibel level we heard from the concert hall, the piano just didn't sound like the piano we heard...my point is there's absolutlety no system in this world and others that can replicate concert venues or locate the precise position of musicians. also sam tellig of stereophile has stated that only about 0.5% of equipment costs actually goes to elctronics and the other 95% goes to aesthetics, like speaker cabintes etc...now when I listen to music I don't really fuss about the material of the speaker cabinets...my two cents worth

[Beobloke]

So a pair of Chord SPM-14000 monoblocks at a cool £25k each don't qualify? I can't imagine ever needing more, unless I was going to drive the Olympic stadium sound system :eek:

http://www.bluebirdmusic.com/SPM14000Mk2.jpg

Too cheap, too small, not powerful enough.

Try some Analog Domain Appollos - 8000W into 4 Ohms and about 150,000 Euro per pair IIRC.

http://analogdomain.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&Itemid=19

;)

[MartinT]

Too cheap, too small, not powerful enough.

So, extrapolating that makes my Chord very cheap, tiny, not nearly powerful enough. Ok then :)

[Reid Malenfant]

I'd rather have the Chord, assuming of course that like it's smaller siblings it uses a high quality SMPS as the PSU :D

But then I'd still prefer a pair of Krell MRA :cool:

http://www.holgerbarske.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/krell_mra_556.jpg

[Lodgesound]

I may be missing something (but know HONESTLY that I'm not)......what I see in that pic is an amplifier worth around 2 - 2500 pounds with the retail price simply multiplied by 10.

No way ON EARTH that these are worth ANYWHERE NEAR that volume of money - it is literally snob value if anyone would think that they could even start to get 25 grands worth of performance in a domestic setting with machinery such as this.

If you believe that is a harsh appraisal ask yourself one question......what on earth will you run through them??? A record? A CD? A master recording?

At this kind of ridiculous and insulting level of pricing actually setting up and running a studio would be achievable.

[friendly]

Sorry guys, but to me the most expensive system you can buy is the one that fails to communicate the music.

Irony is that it's often the most expensive systems that fit the above criteria :lol:

[Barry]

Sorry guys, but to me the most expensive system you can buy is the one that fails to communicate the music.

Irony is that it's often the most expensive systems that fit the above criteria :lol:

:lol: An excellent example of lateral thinking! Well done.

[walpurgis]

I may be missing something (but know HONESTLY that I'm not)......what I see in that pic is an amplifier worth around 2 - 2500 pounds with the retail price simply multiplied by 10.

No way ON EARTH that these are worth ANYWHERE NEAR that volume of money - it is literally snob value if anyone would think that they could even start to get 25 grands worth of performance in a domestic setting with machinery such as this.

If you believe that is a harsh appraisal ask yourself one question......what on earth will you run through them??? A record? A CD? A master recording?

At this kind of ridiculous and insulting level of pricing actually setting up and running a studio would be achievable.

Not sure you're quite right there.

You must take into account the cost of the research and development when designing a complex new product that has to work reliably over a long life.

Then there's the cost of setting up all the necessary machining and assembly for the production line. Some of which may be outsourced, but that won't make it any cheaper, just done by people who are best equipped.

You have the cost of top quality raw materials and selected components. The (presumably) extensive testing, possibly with a demanding reject rate. The substantial packaging and transporting of heavy items.

All for what is undoubtedly a niche market and smaller volume sales/turnover than regular mass produced electronics.

Its not really surprising that retail purchase prices are high. It couldn't be any other way and if you want equipment of that standard, you pay. Otherwise, you settle for something more run of the mill.

[f1eng]

When I was involved in manufacturing the BOM (Bill of materials) and assembly cost was about 10% of the retail price. The rest was the amortizing of R&D and tooling costs, distribution, marketing and both the manufacturers and dealers margin.
Without the R&D it may not work. Without the tooling it can't be made. Without a distribution network you won't be able to get hold of one. Without marketing you won't know it exists so you won't want one nor seek it out. Without the dealer getting an adequate margin he won't be able to offer a discount, so most people won't buy it, or he may not even choose to stock it.
As a young engineer I was outraged. Now I accept the inevitable...
There are many a bankruptcy story about people who did not get it.

[pure sound]

So a pair of Chord SPM-14000 monoblocks at a cool £25k each don't qualify? I can't imagine ever needing more, unless I was going to drive the Olympic stadium sound system :eek:



Sadly the Olympic stadium sound system didn't actually sound very good when playing the newly recorded national anthems they were using. :(

[PaulStewart]

I suppose that the system I have now with the Art Audio T/T etc. is about the best I've had at home, easily the equal of any studios I've used and I've recorded in some of the best. I suppose the cost of it, to replace with new equivalent Tannoys etc would be around £30k, not the most expensive but enough. About two weeks ago, the blues guitarist Stephen Dale Petit brought his new all analog LP "Live at High Voltage" round (you can read a review of the album on Musicosis.co.uk (http://musicosis.co.uk)), and when we put it on he said " I can't hear the system, only the music". I was to say the least chuffed, this is after all the goal for all audiophiles and to have a musician of his caliber say that was a blast. I think if I was to change anything now it would be to get a bigger room and a pair of 15" Monitor Golds for my Lockwood Academys or possibly a pair of Westminster Royale SEs. I don't know how you get better than no system colouration:)

[Yomanze]

Too cheap, too small, not powerful enough.

Try some Analog Domain Appollos - 8000W into 4 Ohms and about 150,000 Euro per pair IIRC.

http://analogdomain.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&Itemid=19

;)

"The output stage features 100 high-performance audio-grade power transistors"

...mo transistors mo better. I think most British amp designers would laugh at the above.

[goraman]

oh dear...

[nat8808]

I now have my system up for sale for £3million.

Do I win the contest for the most expensive?

(Does come with a personal set-up session with Paul McKenna...).

[daytona600]

I now have my system up for sale for £3million.

Do I win the contest for the most expensive?

(Does come with a personal set-up session with Paul McKenna...).

£3million would just cover the hartaudio 24k gold aural pleasure speakers
www.hartaudio.com - look good next to your picasso

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www.snaudio.co.uk

[Barry]

£3million would just cover the hartaudio 24k gold aural pleasure speakers
www.hartaudio.com - look good next to your picasso

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www.snaudio.co.uk

They look like a meditating Sumo wrestler!

[nat8808]

£3million would just cover the hartaudio 24k gold aural pleasure speakers
www.hartaudio.com - look good next to your picasso

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www.snaudio.co.uk

OMG !

You mean this speaker that he FOUND on eBAY?!

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16465

Found the castings on ebay and plonked a cheap Tannoy driver in and put them on modified bar stool bases ! Now charges £40k each..

Then puts only 18ct gold on (not 24ct !) and tries to charge £3 million !

I do at least have respect for the can do attitude of the man, getting these recast and managing to get people to pay out for them, but still... Or maybe I'm just bitter that I was going to bid for them but ummed and ahhed.