Spendor SP3/1R2 Users

[theriskdude]

Are there any other users of the SP3/1R2 out there ? I haven't seen much discussion about the Spendor Classic range since i've been around. Doesn't anyone like them :(

I have these speakers and am looking for feedback from others on amplifier pairing and experiences so that I can get some guidance and prepare a short list to replace my aged Arcam's.

Cheers

Mike

[DSJR]

I know the original SP2/3's and they have a velvety kind of fine gauze over the sound - when the cone surround has been treated with brake fluid... This shouldn't ever be necessary with the current range in all fairness..... The S3's were dull, ploddy and thick toned on launch, but I understand they've been substantially breathed on for recent issue with new tweeter and other tweaks..

To answer your comment and question, I don't mean to be rude to Spendor, but in the 90's, I feel they kind of lost their way, different models having a different sound balance, the best by far being the main SP1/2, which is so like the BC1 (with sorted bass) it's not true, bearing in mind the totally different drivers used (Derek Hughes - son of SPEN and DORothy, did a fantastic job here and also with it's descendant and ancestor combined :) the Stirling LS3/6).

After the takeover around ten years ago, Phil Swift came to see us. I'd known Phil from his Lentek days of the late 70's and got re-acquainted in his Audiolab ownership period. He was most keen to show off the new "S" series, which as expected were beautifully built and with a sound quality that carried the tradition on nicely - smooth mid, clear and warm toned, without the slush and bloat of BC1's set-up wrongly. The S and later Se series are still excellent used buys (if anyone's interested), merely needing a Naim or tight-n-clear sounding amp to really get them to rock. Importantly to your question, the Classic range was severely played down in the early noughties, my requests to hear the SP1 and 2 in current form politely turned down, the classic range being regarded as inferior to the S series and only continued for the far eastern market where our legacy products are so revered.. This may have been for a reason since many models from SP1/2 and SP2/2 to the mid 2000's had problems develop with their cone surrounds stiffening up, this being a big issue with some 1995 SP2/3's a friend inherited out of a video editing suite, where they'd been sat and un-molested for fifteen years or so until replaced with the ubiquitous Dynaudio BM5 active thingies.

Bringing this up to date, I believe Spendor had some re-financing done a few years ago, the A series now successfully replacing the Se models in a simpler styling and subtle re-voicing I understand. The designer (Terry Miles?) has also breathed on the Classic models and at last, they're available discretely on the UK market again I understand. Spendor's competitor Harbeth hasn't stood still either, they've have moved forward in both driver, crossover AND cabinet design, and whereas Spendor are now mainly a "Sevenoaks" brand in the UK, with the profit margins, high volume of its cheaper products and lack of cachet that this can give, Harbeth is available through only a tiny handful of very enthusiastic UK dealers with no plans for expansion here, fourteen months or more international orders in advance and an extremely dedicated attitude to their heritage from Dudley Harwood and the incredible work he and his team did in the 60's for the BBC. Going to Sevenoaks tends to sound the death knell with independant dealers sadly and I'm not sure how many independants can do the level of business to warrant an account now.

Please forgive the essay above, one person's view of selling this stuff since the late 70's. Peeps on this forum are far more familiar with the excellent Harbeth range, where real efforts in driver-cone design have been achieved, together with cabinet damping (their boxes don't "feel" thin-wall at all, so solid are they, in comparison with my very lossy BC2 boxes from 1974). Spendor have beavered away and the SP1's, 2's and 3's have had detailed tweaks too, many catalogued on the Yahoo Spendor Group, as much in capacitor choice and wiring used. How your SP3/1R's would compare with the incredible little Harbeth P3ESR's in stock form I really don't know, but I assume they both share a similar approach and basic "vibe," as do the Spendor SA1 mk2's.

Hope this helps :)

[Alex_UK]

Well my SP1s are hardly modern, but certainly classic. :) I love them to bits, and Marco used to own a pair of SP100's. There is a lot of love for classic Spendors - a few others I can think of like them or use them but I won't "out" them" :lol:

Personally I love the "BBC legacy" designs of all shapes and sizes, from Harbeth, Rogers, Spendor - not to mention some of the peripheral manufacturers (Chartwell, RAM, Stirling) - there's just something so right about all of them I've heard.

Anyway, back to the question, though... :o Never owned the SP3/1R2 so can't comment on those! :lol:

[jandl100]

I had a pair of SP1/2 for a short while. The midrange tonality was marvellously realistic, and the imaging was pretty darn good, too!
I used them with quite a few amps, probably the best were a pair of 40wpc OTL valve monoblocks --
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/SpendorSP12OTLs.jpg

The issue that prompted me to sell them on was a lack of dynamic interest in their music making. I enjoy speakers that are a bit livelier. So if it were me, I'd probably try them with a Mini-T - that should open them up and make the sound more interesting. That would certainly be my first port of call. Feed one with the pre-amp output from your Arcam. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19679
But if you want to flex the walls with techno-dance look elsewhere!

[theriskdude]

Thanks guys - some food for thought there.

A recommendation for the Mini-T was not what I was expecting, but (having read some of the other threads on the site) it is certainly an interesting option as the next step and then look to replace the Arcam 8.

I must admit, my longer term thoughts thus far have been to look for something along the lines of the Croft Micro 25/7 which a lot of people here rave about and they have a mod/upgrade path which I like. I have been in touch with Glenn who didn't think there would be any compatibility issues with the SP3/1R2's. The thing that bothers me a little is the twin volume/lack of remote situation with the pre-amp. I still have an old Denon PMA-250 here that has a twin volume control, but on a single fancy pot and I remember it driving me nuts worrying if the balance was always right. The remote is also a bit of a problem because I have my system in my home office and it is on a lot of the day when I am working and would really like to be able to adjust volume from across the room - especially if the if the phone rings !

The general picture I get is that a lot of Spendors are used with either Naim or Rega amplification. According to Spendor, Naim seems to be a very popular combination with their customers. Like many others, I think the level of quality I am looking with Naim products could be out of my price range. What about used Naim - has anyone got a view on that approach ?

Another potential is Rega - the Brio-R or wait until the Elicit replacement is out (the end of the year I am told).

As always, more questions than answers :doh:

Mike

[DSJR]

Hang on, I've just seen the system.....

The Alpha 8 was a bag of nails which seemed to ring on transients (a trick to get great WTF reviews in the mid to late 90's). QED SILVER ANNIVERSARY????? Oh FFS, you MUST ditch that stuff as this will help to sap dynamics and make the treble hash badly (this has been covered a few times on AOS, just so's you know I'm not singling you out :lol:)

The Mini-T is so relatively cheap it's well worth getting, either as an experiment, or as a keeper for the main setup. Croft sounds lovely with all BBC legacy speakers as does the Rega Brio R (yes I know I'm repeating myself, but it loves Harbs of all sizes and Alex's SP1's.)

I'm a fan of 2.5mm speaker cables and there's plenty available. Mark Grant here does some Belden? stuff for not much dosh and this is a minimum mandatory I think. Sell the QED to some other sucker out there ;)

[jandl100]

Hang on, I've just seen the system.....

... QED SILVER ANNIVERSARY????? Oh FFS, you MUST ditch that stuff as this will help to sap dynamics and make the treble hash badly ...

Oops - QED SA? :doh: I hadn't spotted that!

As Dave says, ditch that -- and then see what the system sounds like, and take it from there. Really! Just do it.
Personally, I like Cable Talk 3 (about £70 a 3m pair) but pretty much anything is better than QED SA. ;)

[theriskdude]

well i'm learning a whole lot here, thanks chaps :eek:

[theriskdude]

ok, so i've searched AoS for QED SA and read a few - I get it :lol:

[DSJR]

You won't be ripped off here particularly, although each of us have our own favourite bits and some can afford to go "all the way" with their audio obsessions :lol:

Good cheapo speaker cables are available from Fisual (eBay and with white jacket), Van Damme (blue jacket mostly I think), Belden via Mark Grant (a nice dusky shade of bland grey I think, but it does the business :))Talk Audio (why the heck it's the vile shade of Green the old CT Concert used to be I'll never know :lol: but the copper will be excellent quality) and if you must use a dealer, the Chord at around six quid a metre used to be good pre t'internet suppliers. The sonics of all of these will be fine and the jacket colour really is all you need to worry about at this point in the proceedings!

Sincere apologies to those I've missed out, but some other vociferous suppliers here start at a much higher price I believe...

[jandl100]

....Talk Audio (why the heck it's the vile shade of Green the old CT Concert used to be I'll never know :lol: but the copper will be excellent quality) ...

Ooo - my Cable Talk 3 is a rather spiffy "British racing green". :thumbsup:

[Alex_UK]

Mike - I hope we've not come across too rude - they did the same to me when I arrived (with QED SA! :lol:) and I took it on the chin and tried something different... Suffice to say the QED is still in a carrier bag at the back of my wardrobe! ;)

I share your concerns on the Croft gear - I've listened to it many times, and love the sound, but separate channel volumes and no remote was a deal-breaker for me, too - the Brio-R ticked the usability boxes, but is a lovely performer too. Personally, I would take the Brio-R over current Naim, but that's probably just me. I'd suggest hanging on and hearing the Elicit as well as the Brio-R and try some Naim at the same time. ...but not until you've tried some new speaker cable! ;)

(Personally I don't "get" the Mini-T - I use one in a subsidiary system where small size is handy and I don't need much volume and can live with single input and no remote - it does an admiral job, and for the money is a bargain, but is it a "giant killer" that would trounce the Brio-R, an Audiolab 8000S or an Aura VA-50 that I've pitted against it? No - IMO - it isn't. I accept I'm awimming against the tide here though! :lol:)

Good luck with whatever you go for, and above all have some fun and enjoy the music along the way! :)

[realysm42]

If you don't mind me asking, why does the Croft stuff have two volume controls, what's the benefit?

[Alex_UK]

Just a guess Martin, but I always thought it was to keep the channels totally separate?

[DSJR]

Alex, I thought you needed to diet again? You get up and down for little Avatar there and her baby brother, so what's different about not having remote control and getting u to change the volume? You're just fighting the inevitable with excuses, aren't you? :lol:

In my day and with the Croft preamp I have, even the input selection was separated and the channels only "came together" at the mute switch, where the inputs were shorted out (or not) before going their separate ways to the volume controls at each side of the front panel!

Having two controls can be a pleasure or a curse, but those who've not used them for years as I have don't seem to get the benefits. Having separate controls means a balance pot doesn't have to be added. Dual gang controls don't seem to be available to the right standard - don't even know if they're still made now cassette decks have bitten the dust? and Glenn doesn't use stepped attenuators, mainly for cost reasons I suspect..

These days, Glenn uses a stereo selector switch and I dare say the twin volume pots are a nod to his past production. I think there's enough room for an enterprising soul to replace them with DACT stepped attenuators or similar of the right value, which would make exact channel alignment easier (you might even con yourself into thinking it sounds better too :))

[jandl100]

Ha ha - marvellous - I didn't realise that Croft use stereo source selection switches on their "dual mono" designs! ... right near the start of the signal path, I should think! :eyebrows:

I recently saw a Croft pre on fleaBay where Glen had allegedly modded it to have a single volume control ...?


I think there's enough room for an enterprising soul to replace them with DACT stepped attenuators or similar of the right value, which would make exact channel alignment easier (you might even con yourself into thinking it sounds better too :))

No con, Dave! :nono: - there are big improvements to be had in transparency and rez! ;)

[theriskdude]

Well, I decided I couldn't take the abuse about the QED SA :lol: and after some research around the various AoS threads decided on a set of those rather natty British Racing Green cables instead !

These arrived very promptly, so over the weekend I thought I would give them a quick run before having to temporarily store my speakers/stands (so that my office/music room could be reorganised as a bedroom for my temporarily homeless sister and her kids :eek:). Unfortunately, after connecting it up and switching the power amp on, the output stage relays wouldn't set and although retrying every few seconds the power amp light (which usually changes from Orange to Green) just switches back out again. I took the 8P out of the circuit and connected straight in to the 8 integrated and exactly the same happened. I guess the Arcam's don't like the different properties of the Cable Talk 3 ! The QED SA was quickly reinstalled and everything is back to normal.

I'd be interested to know why this happened and if it should stabilise - I was nervous to leave it switched on in the hope that after a period of time it settled, just in case it shot the relays.

I've got a couple of weeks before it can be used again anyway to try and come up with a solution, so I may well just order a Mini-T which (because it is inexpensive) could be useful to test this against, replace the Arcam 8P for a while and be a long term backup amp while I continue my quest for the right amp for the Spendor's.

Mike

[DSJR]

The only "different" thing that I know of with the Talk 3 cable is the *unused* third conductor? in the middle which just helps space the two main conductors apart inside the green outer jacket. there's absolutely nothing about the cable I can see that should cause the 8P to trip in and out unless you have a short circuit somewhere. Please check for strands shorting out etc... and if you still have problems, talk to Kevin at Talk Audio

[jandl100]

+1 what Dave said.
That can't be right - there must be a wiring short somewhere. :scratch:

[peelaaa]

Have owned a pair of walnut sp2/2 for 10 years. Was going to replace them recently but decided to keep them. Used to power them with a kel34 tube amp but now with exposure V1/VII/VIII. Very relaxing neutral sound, haven't heard the sp3/1 but recommend the sp2/2.

[theriskdude]

So, I have tried it again this morning and when connecting straight to the Arcam 8 Integrated had the same problem, the relays dropping out after a few seconds. When it briefly produced some sound I noticed a distinct difference in volume between left and right, so I thought I would very try the channels individually. Using the left channel/cable on it's own it stayed locked in, so I then tried the right channel/cable on it's own and it had the original problem. I then checked the various connections - first at the speaker end and then the amp end. No change at the speaker end , but at the amp end when I wiggled the -ve (white) conductor, there was a sudden change in volume and the relays stayed locked in. I then connected the other channel back up and retried it and this time it was perfect and I have now run it for an hour with no drop outs. I have wiggled the connections a number of times since then and cannot recreate the problem, so I assume that has sorted it.

I can only imagine that the effect I was seeing was due was due to a slightly ineffective termination on that one plug. It looked to be okay visually, but I can only imagine that it created a small enough imbalance to upset the output relays.

Anyway, it all seems to be ok now so I will continue to monitor and check it in case it can be reproduced again but would assume whatever happened has cleared the problem :)

[jandl100]

Are the connections soldered or just screw-clamped?

If soldered, might be worth dabbing the connection with a soldering iron, if you have such a thing.
If screw-clamped, get your screwdriver out and redo the connection.

So -- what do you think of the sound quality? Any change from the QED SA?

[Alex_UK]

Could easily have been one single stray strand of broken-off wire got lodged causing a short-circuit - I've had that happen sending my then Audiolab into a frenzy until I worked out what it was! At least you're all sorted now. :)

[theriskdude]

They are screw fit into Talk's own banana's so i'll be checking them now it's sorted - I didn't want to touch them initially in case they had to go back.

It's difficult to make a sensible 121 comparison against the QED's at the moment as my gear has been moved to accommodate some guests :eek: so it will be another week or so before I can test it properly. Initial observations would be that there is a less "harsh" sound. I'll report back in a week or so when it's back to it's normal positions.

Mike

[DSJR]

Could easily have been one single stray strand of broken-off wire got lodged causing a short-circuit - I've had that happen sending my then Audiolab into a frenzy until I worked out what it was! At least you're all sorted now. :)

I've seen your connectors Alex, and really need to get you sorted out with them ;)

[hifi_dave]

I've seen your connectors Alex, and really need to get you sorted out with them ;)

Surely not..:stalks:

Seems like a job for our next meet.

[Alex_UK]

Guilty, as charged... :o

[theriskdude]

Well, the system is back up and running now and after several hours listening I can't quite believe the improvement the Talk 3 cables have made. The most noticeable improvement is around bass & drums which now have much greater detail & weight. Treble is generally a smoother listen as well. This is quite brilliant when you consider the Talk 3 was cheaper than the QED. So, one happy bunny here ! Now back to the amp research. Thanks chaps I'm learning a lot here - especially when it comes to magazine reviews !

Mike

[The Grand Wazoo]

Excellent Mike, now stick the QED on Ebay, pepper your description with a few juicy quotes from the reviews (the non-AoS ones!) & get a good chunk of your money back!

[jandl100]

Well, the system is back up and running now and after several hours listening I can't quite believe the improvement the Talk 3 cables have made.

Wow - that's fab news, Mike. :hifives:
(A huge sigh of relief is heard to come from Jerry Towers! I always get nervous when someone spends their ££ on my recommendation.)

It's amazing how much those QED SA wires can hold back a system. :doh:
Mind you, those Talk 3 cables are damn fine, imho. :cool:

[theriskdude]

It's amazing how much those QED SA wires can hold back a system.

Yes, the term that comes to mind is "strangled"


Mind you, those Talk 3 cables are damn fine, imho.


I agree and on the face of it they seem to allow the Spendors to breath particularly well :) One comment I have heard about the Spendors is that they lack bass. - i've never really subscribed to that view as IMO they don't colour the sound with bass that isn't there to start with. What has happened now is that the definition around bass sounds generally is just much, much better and on some recordings it can be huge when needed.

As I said, happy bunny here :) QED's on fleabay shortly !

[DSJR]

Spendors of the modern trend seem to have a mid bass warmth which significantly aids lower level listening. The 30L boxes of the SA2 and SP2 series won't plumb the depths in bass extension, but suitably mounted in a room that favours them, the bass won't appear lacking at all. The SP1, Harbeth SHL5 and Stirling LS3/6 will go down further though.

[theriskdude]

So, as i've got a bit time waiting for a plane I thought I would write an update.

Well, the swapping out of the Arcam 8P turned into an interesting experience - I ordered a Mini-T and it turned up in a couple of days, plugged it in and there was a small pop, a tell tale smell and no sound ! I contacted Chris at Amptastic who then sent me another one, connected it up an still no sound. Chris then sent me a replacement power supply and bingo, we have sound ! This took a couple weeks to sort out, but Amptastic were great about it. It seems that a PSU fault took out the chip in the first amp.

So, what do I think of the Mini-T ? Well, initially I thought I had lost all the bass, but after a further couple of weeks and some speaker positioning adjustments it is back. The effect seems to have been to lose the "boom" I was getting with the Arcam. I have toed the speakers in a bit further, which I think has helped. Now I get bass when it's there and don't when it's not - which is how it should be right ? I have to say now having had a few weeks with it that I really like the little amp and it has been great low cost upgrade. It is only after a lot of listening of various recordings that you see how well it copes with pretty much everything very well. I have just picked up the remaster of Peter Gabriel's "So" which comes with a remaster of a live show in the same period. The track "Don't Give Up" has a great bass line where the Mini-T takes the Spendors to depths I have not heard before, so I'm pretty impressed.

I think I am on the right track now and am looking forward to upgrading the Arcam 8 next, which I am hoping will make another big step up. The 8P and the unmentionable speaker cables are now sold and the money is in the bank for the next purchase !

Oh......and I've got a Croft Micro 25 pre being built at the moment :D I can't wait !

Mike