Wanted - Acrylic Platter

[Tony2112]

Hi guys

I'm in the process of tweaking my deck, a Manticore Mantra. There are other posts here relating to it, hope I'm on the right thread now to see if anyone's got or can put me in the direction of an acrylic platter.

The current glass platter is 12mm thick and the spindle is 7mm dia.

And any thoughts on the logic welcome - I have a deflex mat on there which for definite sounded better than the felt original. I put it down to a rotational mass increase reducing the flutter but it was probably also a damping factor of the "alive" glass. Seems deflex hasn't got a good following and for years have thought acrylic may be a better place to sit vinyl anyway.

Thanks

Tony

[jandl100]

I've found that some acrylic platters can ring a bit, too. A rubber damping ring around the outside did wonders for my AudioNote TT2!

Personally, I'd try a Reso-mat to bypass the platter issue altogether - they can really work well.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180921911248?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[Tony2112]

Hi Jerry

Thanks for the advice..I've never come across these before.

Tony

[jandl100]

Here's a review http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14600&highlight=reso-mat

[Tony2112]

Thanks, I'll give it a go.

Interesting how you (and another reviewer) describe sounds as faster when improved, I've very often heard the apparent pace drop when things slot into place more.

I'll let you know the difference here when I get it

Tony

[jandl100]

Thanks, I'll give it a go.

Interesting how you (and another reviewer) describe sounds as faster when improved, I've very often heard the apparent pace drop when things slot into place more.

I'll let you know the difference here when I get it

Tony

Mmm. Interesting, I await your verdict!

-- don't forget to be careful with the packaging etc, as you can send it back for a refund if you are not pleased!

"faster". Well, what I meant was that transients are cleaner and more immediate, resolution seems higher - and that does kind of speed up the apparent pace of the music to my ears.
Some folk like a more laidback and relaxed sound than I do, so maybe the Reso-mat will alter the sound in ways that won't be to your taste. And I am sure that a mat's impact on the sound of a tt will depend on the tt itself.

[sq225917]

Acrylic is about half the weight of glass so you'd ned one that is twice as thick to keep the same weight over the bearing and roughly the same effective rotating mass and moment of inertia.

The guy to ask is the Acrylteller from ebay, he makes the Devices platters and also make platters for quite a few of the well known German retail brands- yeh they are that good.

Tell him what you need, hell need to know the distance from under your platter to the top of your deck and things like the height of the pulley and how far it is from the main bearing and he'll whip you one up in no time. I used one on my Rega P5, after trying a few others from the usual rega mod specialists, his were head and shoulders above the rest in quality.

Here's a few old pics.
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/gallery/album.php?album_id=1109

you'll have to copy and paste it into a new window.

[jandl100]

... of course, you'll need to raise the tonearm with a thicker platter ...

[sq225917]

Not usually, you put the added depth under the height of the top of the platter, not above it. This may or may not be possible depending on the clearances involved which is why he requests measurements.

[Tony2112]

Well, the Reso-Mat arrived yesterday and I've had a chance to come to a few conclusions..

Not straight forward for me, I've been off the vinyl for a while after moving house and then my amp died. Since getting it back, it sounds absolutely tremendous and Squeezebox is so convenient it's been on a lot. But I started to put the vinyl back on as the dust of moving house settles and.. it sounds great. A pleasure to listen to music (which is what it's all about) and a pleasure to hear the vinyl perform so well. Or is it still the amp I'm captivated by?

On first listening, the tracing noise appeared to have dropped, along also with a certain degree of bass and top end detail. Something not quite..there as well by comparison. Ended up after a few different discs with Kate Bush' EMI 20th anniversary heavyweight and..No contest, rubber mat it is. Just more music in all aspects. I'd been coming to that conclusion for an hour or so and it was decision time.

The reso mat isn't going back, it's in the drawer for playtime some other time. I think the fact I have a glass platter means it requires damping which the Reso-Mat isn't giving.

Tony

[jandl100]

Darn - sorry about that! :(

I thought it would work well.

Have you tried it on top of the rubber mat? That would do the platter damping and supply the Reso-sound.

[sq225917]

IME of similar mats it is often the case that the bass can sound a little underwhelming at first. But stick with it and you'll find it's actually more accurate. If your speakers aren't full range or you use valve amps that are lacking in grip then the presentation might be to dry for your taste- but all it removes in overhang and blurring.

Maybe try dialling your arm a touch down at the back to compensate.

[Tony2112]

Point taken about the bass but I've been really taken with the grip of this (valve) rig in this room. The digital sources (Squeezebox and Chordette) give me a reference point, which is a lot closer to bass reproduction with the Deflex than Reso.

I'll give it a try on top of Deflex as suggested (VTA adjusters requd next) and am also going to try it with a bit of sticky stuff somewhere to couple it to the glass platter to see if there's a slippage reduction or coupling benefit!

And on the pace side of things, Avalon Sunset Track 1 in particular seemed to speed up with the Reso and become more laid back with the Deflex.

[YNWaN]

With respect to the Deflex, you say it is highly regarded, but although I am aware of it I have never previously heard a word of recommendation (or of any kind). I have heard the effect of similarly dense polymer mats and if this is your thing I suggest you damp as much of your TT as possible and buy Quad amplification. Fit an SME 3009 and a Shure cartridge (though this combo may
Prove to be too lively for your tastes)

Have fun ;)

[jandl100]

Well, that might be a bit harsh! -- that fairly thin (half inch) glass platter probably rings like a bell and causes all sorts of interesting colourations if left undamped. Having a quick Google, as one does, folks do seem to replace that glass platter.

There's a comparison of a deflex mat vs a Ringmat here (http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/ringmat.html) but I don't know if its exactly the same mat that Tony uses, but it is made out of the Deflex material.
The reviewer said "A general softening and rounding off of the sound. Neither of us liked the effect and after giving it a fair hearing we returned with some glee to the Ringmat."

It might just be that the Manticore Mantra has an over-lively sound from that glass platter and needs to be restrained by a bit of heavy damping. Or maybe Tony likes his tunes as heard from the rear of the arena/concert hall. Some folks do. There isn't a right and wrong in that respect, imo. I prefer the front stalls view provided by the Reso-mat, but that's just me.
I can't quite get my head round Tony saying that the Reso has less detail, though! :scratch:

I'd be interested to hear about the results of putting the Reso on top of the deflex mat, if that were possible. :)

[Tony2112]

There is always an element of personal taste in whatever we're listening to. But, something that I would hope we all are chasing is information retrieval as well as its presentation.

I'll put in the first good word for the Deflex..It works in my rig and I've heard it work in one other (with a glass platter) also. The reso..did..marginally..resolve Dean Friedman a bit better if I'm honest, but there isn't the bass that was present on the other recordings. There is however lots and lots of upper mid stuff - high vocals, drums and sax and the projection of each was slightly more defined.

Hence the Reso stays in the toybox. I am on glass but probably will not always be.

A bit more fiddling required, a VTA adjustment device firstly methinks. I like the idea of the Reso-on-Deflex, damping and de-coupling. And still, as at the start of the thread, an acrylic platter.

[jandl100]

Good post, Tony. :)


..... And still, as at the start of the thread, an acrylic platter.

Hmmm :hmm: ... acrylic platters ring like a bell as well!
I had one on an AN TT2 - and a rubber damping band to go around the platter rim worked wonders.

Perhaps you should try one on your own glass platter and then see what the Reso does?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SRM-TECH-PLATTER-DAMPING-RING-10mm-MODEL-/271035140600?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f1af409f8

[Tony2112]

Done and dusted, look forward to getting it:). Thanks for pointing it out. Still have to try acrylic though at some point (despite the fore-warnings) and the VTA adjuster is a necessary.

[jandl100]

Ha ha!!!! - I'm good at spending other people's money aren't I. :oops:

Hope it works out for you. :)

[Stratmangler]

I popped around to Tony's earlier to drop off a Cork/Neoprene mat that I'd been using on my Techie prior to the arrival of my Achromat.

While I was there I heard the effects of all three mats (Deflex/Resomat/Cork), and to be honest the Deflex was the best of the three.
The Cork/Neoprene mat was second, and the Resomat came in third.

I found the Resomat to be shouty and forward, and there was little in the way of musical involvement.

The other two were involving to listen to, but the Deflex mat brought the greater detail retrieval, and a better tonal balance.
The only negative to using the Deflex mat was a very slight softness to the bottom end.

One last thing - I don't do pipe and slippers, so don't even think of going there (you know who you are) :eyebrows:

[jandl100]

Fair enough - it's all about synergy with the tt and its glass platter, I am sure.

It will be interesting to learn what happens when the damping ring is sorting the platter ringing out and the Reso can be used directly on the now-damped glass platter.

I have a similar lack of doubt that the Reso substantially improved on an Achromat mat on my tt. :)

[Stratmangler]

I'm sure that the key is the platter too, and I'm sure that the goalposts will move again once a big rubber band is fitted to the circumference of the platter :)

[Tony2112]

Well the big elastic arrived today - pdq! Thanks SRM

It's staying on - Thanks Jerry for putting me in their direction. The sound comparisons are (to my lugs) in the same order as without the "PDR", Deflex still the best. The sound has become more musical, more involving. Art Garfunkel revealed more clearly multi track vocals, Van Morrison became more present in the room and I finished with high volume Marillion which was just for the sake of listening to music!!

The Reso mat wasn't as confused, but it really had to come off quickly, still very fatigue-inducing and lacking presence. The cork/rubber produced a great soundstage but did have some confusion going on. The Deflex removed much of that to give greater air and space but there is a touch of instability in the bass which was easy to ignore.

The worst part by far, I couldn't find "Shine On" by The Climax Blues Band. It's not up at yours is it Chris? I'd been looking forward to giving it a play.

Makes me think if resonance damping applied to the underside of the platter will help. The glass is phenominally resonant, without damping it rings for several seconds.

Anyway, off out for beer and live music

Tony

[jandl100]

I guess the Reso simply doesn't strut its stuff on your tt! :(
Ah well, 1 hit and 1 miss then.
Could be worse! - I'm glad you like the laccyband. :)