Manticore/Suspended Deck Tweaks

[Tony2112]

If there's a huge body of info elsewhere, point me in the direction before starting a thread please. I'm sure this has been covered ad nauseum.

But, I have owned a Manticore Mantra which replaced a Dual CS505 Mk2 for yonks now. I've heard what the Technics 1200's do and have to say it impresses me. There are solid differences between the two in the way they work and I've been here recently and thought..OK, I'll get one, which does involve a time-factor also because it would likely come in for tweaking. But now I think there may be something else I can get from the Mantra.

It's had the base board off, motor resistor changed to 15k, arm rewire (me) OL stub and counterweight change on the RB250, lid off (of course). It's been damped internally with the tarry stuff from car spares shops. Sits on sorbothane, on slate, on damped Target wall shelf. Same glass platter it came with and a (Deflex?) rubber mat which improved things over the felt.

WD40 worked a treat years back on the RB bearings and oil in the main bearing, can't remember the grade (prob 10/40) but it sounded better and was freer with molyslip in there.

Reson Reca cart and a WAD Pre2.

Comments welcome or any other threads on topic

Cheers

Tony

[YNWaN]

Well, the most obvious change you could do is add a power supply. I think it uses the same motor as the LP12 (as many AC powered decks do) and therefore there is quite a range of options.

I'm really surprised you like the Deflex platter mat though and I would expect a thin felt mat to sound significantly more dynamic and lively.

[Tony2112]

I remember getting the mat, it did tighten things up quite considerably. At the time I put it down to a greater rotational mass and less speed anomalies. It also raised the vinyl and I've got a washer under the tonearm to help correct the tracking angle.

I've still got the felt and think a zero cost change may be tried. Besides, the amp was a NAD 3130 then, and I don't think I'd rewired or OL'd the arm. Are the deflex a bit unpopular here?

The outboard PSU is also a great consideration., I'll have a look into that tomorrow (today).

Thanks

[YNWaN]

I don't know if it is unpopular in general, but you are the only person who uses one that I am aware of. I've tried polymer mats like the Deflex and, to be honest, they are my least favoured option.

[DSJR]

WD40 in arm bearings and engine oil in the main bearing that was part filled with very cheap EP80 gear oil originally????????? WD40 has all sorts of additives and I remember the Rb250 bearings are set dry with no need for lubricant. Re-Wiring yourself? OK, if there had been any damage done with the captive earthing, you'd have heard it by now... The main bearing isn't heavily loaded so shouldn't be an issue.

The Mantra sonics - in stock form, were always very organic and "flowing," a bit like a Gyrodeck on the cheap as I recall. More atmosphere than a Planar 3 of the period (the P25 and replacements weren't around back then).

Without seeing the arm, I'd suggest trying an Acrimat (spelling?) for £20 from eBay. Not heavy so won't overload the bearing and maybe a modest weight or clamp Michell style?

The arm I'm deeply suspicious over. Anyone would think that Rega don't know what the heck they're doing, all these bodge-up aftermarket add-ons that come along "me too" to cash in on a cheap arm. My recommendation would be to 1, send the arm to Johnnie at Audio Origami to get the bearings cleaned out and possibly upgraded or 2, upgrade the arm to an RB300 or 301 and get this professionally re-wired (the bearings are very carefully and formly torqued up and shouldn't be messed with by an amateur - the wires pass through a gland I believe and if dislodged, this can affect things too..

Not much point in spending more on the Mantra although with properly sorted tonearm, a cartridge change may liven things up and be more musical than the Goldring derived thing you're currently using..

lastly, what changes were made from the WAD Pre 2 to Pre 3?

[Stratmangler]

a cartridge change may liven things up and be more musical than the Goldring derived thing you're currently using..

Have you heard one?

[ifor]

I recently had my Manticore Mantra done over by Inspire HiFi.

Acos Lustre GST-1 tonearm replaced with Rega RB301
Glass platter replaced with acrylic platter
Felt mat replaced with Acrimat
Reveneered
Birch bracing added internally to plinth.

I've no idea which bit(s) have made the difference, but I find it much revealing and musical than it was before.

[DSJR]

Have you heard one?

I wouldn't have said anything about it if I hadn't :rolleyes: but yes, it was a long time ago.....

[ifor]

I hope you retained the 'GST-1' (Strange arm to have on a 'Mantra')

I still have it. I understand it to be the same as the Rega R200. I bought it new from Comet for £23.10. It was originally on my Connoiseur BD1.

[Tony2112]

iHi David

I like the reference to the Manticore in the same sentence as Gyrodeck, a simply brilliant deck IMHO.

But maybe I'm missing a salient point...The RB250 sounded better when sprayed with WD40 (to me) And it was more compliant in my hand. The Incognito rewire made a massive difference (to me) (still pull myself up on the crappiness of my tag soldering). OL stub and weight change was like having a new collection of music.. I even forgave them for breaking off the finger lift; The difference was immense! Conclusion is that the RB250 was built to a price and it could be bettered.

Seems like we can agree on the main bearing oil change? Believe me, I've tried all sorts and molyslip/engine oil were at the end of gallons of beer and conversations.

I'll try an acrimat, think that'll lead to VTA changes again and does also make me think about the springs.

Cheers

Tony

[Stratmangler]

I wouldn't have said anything about it if I hadn't :rolleyes: but yes, it was a long time ago.....

Just checking.
IME the Reson Reca is a very neutral, musical and involving cartridge, far superior to the Goldring 1042 with which it has similarities.

I should know - I have both.

[DSJR]

You haven't lived sir :lol: