I'm also looking for advice and recommendations for a phono stage.

[ifor]

Manticore Mantra, (RB301, Goldring G1042 MM cartridge) feeding Spendor A5s through a Roksan Kandy LIII.

Question, how much would I need to spend and on what to achieve a significant improvement over the phono stage in the Kandy?

I'm thinking that at some stage I might replace the Roksan with a Cyrus 8 DAC, which has no built in phono stage.

[DSJR]

Have you been on the WTF mag and Sevenoaks merry-go-round? I think I have it on good authority that "we" don't follow that path these days.

Cyrus is the kind of gear that followers of the WTF forum buy and then sell on to buy some little ADM9 actives, thereby giving the manufacturer another "Upgraded from several K's worth of gear for our little speakers." If you intend to keep the gear you buy, there's far better out there IMO

[ifor]

I'm not sure what you're telling me apart from you're not keen on Cyrus. Please expand and clarify.

[walpurgis]

Hi Ifor,

I'm not familiar with the Kandy LIII, but knowing Roksan I would expect the phono stage to be pretty decent.

Are you sure your cable quality is up to scratch on the phono side? Inadequate cables have a big impact on vinyl reproduction.

There are loads of good phono stages about, what to choose depends largely on how much you can spend. I personally like the Graham Slee phono stages as the models are all very good at their respective price points going up the range.

I recently sold off a well regarded EAR 834P valve phono stage in favour of the Graham Slee ERA Gold V, which proved to be clearly superior.

Geoff.

[ifor]

I'm thinking of getting a Slee on loan. Angle audio also caught my eye, through eBay. Trichord Dino has been recommended, but I think that's a bit pricey fo now,

[walpurgis]

If you're borrowing a Slee go for the ERA V Gold if you can. Its MM only and works great with a step-up transformer if you go for an MC. Lovely combination.

[ifor]

If you're borrowing a Slee go for the ERA V Gold if you can. Its MM only and works great with a step-up transformer if you go for an MC. Lovely combination.

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you, or anybody else, know anything about the Angle Audio phono stages that are for sale on eBay?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audiophile-Phono-Stage-amp-preamp-MM-or-MC-Brand-New-/130740041441?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item1e70b6b6e1#ht_1172wt_1370

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Audiophile-Reference-2-Phono-Stage-amp-preamp-MM-or-MC-highest-spec-unit-/130740041092?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item1e70b6b584#ht_1421wt_1370

[camtwister]

If you're looking in Graham Slee's shop window, press your nose against the bit in front of the Reflex M.

(Of interest if you have blue chip stock of old vinyl, mature enough not to be equalized to RIAA, is the Revelation. Also with equalization is the Jazz Club, the equivalent phono pre-amp in the range to the Era Gold V.)

I'm an adherent of Croft pre-amps but I prefer my Revelation to the phono stage in the Micro 25, and that's quite a pat on the back for the solid state device.

Croft dealers sell a dedicated RIAA stage for about £500. The GSP Reflex M is the same price, although splashing out on the linear psu1 adds another £150 to the ticket.

[ifor]

If you're looking in Graham Slee's shop window, press your nose against the bit in front of the Reflex M.

(Of interest if you have blue chip stock of old vinyl, mature enough not to be equalized to RIAA, is the Revelation. Also with equalization is the Jazz Club, the equivalent phono pre-amp in the range to the Era Gold V.)

I'm an adherent of Croft pre-amps but I prefer my Revelation to the phono stage in the Micro 25, and that's quite a pat on the back for the solid state device.

Croft dealers sell a dedicated RIAA stage for about £500. The GSP Reflex M is the same price, although splashing out on the linear psu1 adds another £150 to the ticket.

I think you're losing me in the techie stuff. :)

[camtwister]

Sorry for being obtuse.
What I mean to suggest is, if you can afford £500 on a dedicated new phono pre-amp, audition the Croft RIAA unit and the GSP Reflex M stage. The Croft uses valves and the Reflex doesn't. They are both excellent, and in my experience, the best at this price point.

[DSJR]

First, I don't care for many of the What HiFi (WTF) recommendations. The Kandy 2 was horrible, all power and no music at all - ugh! The Caspian was so much better (probably a Quad 77/99 in different clothes they were so similar in sonics and with shared ownership) it's amazing they came from the same stable. I haven't tried the mk3 though.. Cyrus is usually a WTF promoted brand and tends to be sold on, on the upgrade way to the stuff we like here...

I've heard one of the Slee's and it's alright, but to me at any rate, a bit "solid-state dead" in presentation. OK, not in my system, so take that as you find it. The croft phono stage (separate model) is based more on the "R" version (see the Croft site and delve here for an explanation of the names). The sound as supplied is accurate, pretty quiet in terms of hiss/hum and with excellent (valve speciality) overload margins. There is something about Glenn's phono stages that makes listening to records rather special, and without the added warm soft glow the EAR 934P gives to the reproduced music (and you can't see the valves in the EAR either ;))

Phono stages that "we" are interested in are made by hand in tiny quantities and I suspect this has a lot to do with the silly prices most cost. How the heck a phono stage can cost a grand is beyond me, since the demands on the power supply aren't that huge and the components on the board are most often ten a penny. The cases probably cost twice the amount of the internal components, so don't go mad at this point PLEASE :)

[walpurgis]

Anyway Ifor, as I was saying, I think you'd be impressed with the Graham Slee ERA V Gold, its certainly the best solid state unit I've owned and also better than any of the valve models I've had. Like much good equipment it is very neutral, smooth and transparent, just read the online reviews, they're all good. The dearer Slee models are more specialist, but not necessarily better sounding, one offering various recording equalisation and another incorporating MC input. Listen to other makes by all means, but I doubt you'll find anything that comes close for that sort of money.

[ifor]

First, I don't care for many of the What HiFi (WTF) recommendations. Cyrus is usually a WTF promoted brand and tends to be sold on, on the upgrade way to the stuff we like here...

I've heard one of the Slee's and it's alright, but to me at any rate, a bit "solid-state dead" in presentation.

David, are you giving the Graham Slee phono stages a bit of a thumbs down because they've been known to get 5 star WHF reviews?

My budget is not likely to exceed £300 and that will take some negotiation with "administration". :(

[ifor]

Anyway Ifor, as I was saying, I think you'd be impressed with the Graham Slee ERA V Gold, its certainly the best solid state unit I've owned and also better than any of the valve models I've had. Like much good equipment it is very neutral, smooth and transparent, just read the online reviews, they're all good. The dearer Slee models are more specialist, but not necessarily better sounding, one offering various recording equalisation and another incorporating MC input. Listen to other makes by all means, but I doubt you'll find anything that comes close for that sort of money.

Thanks for the advice Geoff.

[DSJR]

Take Geoff's advice! He's heard the unit in question and compared it to others we seem to like. I no longer read WHF magazine and know from prior experience the uselessness of four and five star reviews. Take the annihilation of the Mark Grant HD1000 interconnect for example, where most of those here who own and use them have totally the opposite experiences to the "reviewers" on Haymarket, who tend to start with WHF and move onwards and upwards from there.

You mentioned in your first post that the Slee range was on your short-list and others have come along supporting that decision and pointing you towards specific models. I strongly suggest you take their advice as users of said products, who've probably had the chance by various means to try them against other well liked products.

[ifor]

You mentioned in your first post that the Slee range was on your short-list .....

It's hardly a short list yet. I'm just trying to gather information and learn the subject a bit. My starting point is trying to understand what sort of kit I would need to be at least as good as, preferably better, than what's built into the Kandy so that I wouldn't be going backwards if I changed the Kandy for something without a built in phono stage, which could be a Cyrus ..... or not!

[MartinT]

Ifor, the Graham Slees are not bad and I've heard good things about the Angle Audio, too. However, you might want to look at getting the best from what you have: for instance, turntables are very critical of where they are sited. Perhaps an isolation shelf? What cables are you using? Something like Mark Grant's G1000HD can give you a good gee-up in performance. What sort of power cables are you using, and are they going direct to wall sockets?

I'm presenting a different view given your budget, although a new phono stage may be just the biscuit.

[Chivas]

David, are you giving the Graham Slee phono stages a bit of a thumbs down because they've been known to get 5 star WHF reviews?

My budget is not likely to exceed £300 and that will take some negotiation with "administration". :(

Hi Ifor

I have a GA2SE (Slee's Gram Amp 2 Special Edition) with the PSU1 power supply I've been meaning to sell. I've compared it to numerous stages and I think it is a little giant killer.

New it retails at about £390 for the pair (£220 + £170) and will come in well below your £300 budget 2nd hand.

If you're interested to try it out and compare it to your current phono stage, give me a shout and we can work something out.

Regards
Chivas

PS. Graham's customer service is also 2nd to none, up there in the Glen Croft drawer!

[walpurgis]

Sounds promising Ifor, you can hear it and decide! There are good reviews on this one too. Geoff.

[ifor]

Hi Ifor

I have a GA2SE (Slee's Gram Amp 2 Special Edition) with the PSU1 power supply I've been meaning to sell. I've compared it to numerous stages and I think it is a little giant killer.

New it retails at about £390 for the pair (£220 + £170) and will come in well below your £300 budget 2nd hand.

If you're interested to try it out and compare it to your current phono stage, give me a shout and we can work something out.

Regards
Chivas

PS. Graham's customer service is also 2nd to none, up there in the Glen Croft drawer!

Thanks very much for the offer. Unfortunately I dare not move too swiftly; my recent purchases of Spendors and DAC have been tolerated, even enjoyed, but it'll be a bit longer before I've got the nerve to introduce something new. I'll keep watching the forum(s) and may ask a few more questions.....I'll get there, wherever there is, eventually.

[ifor]

Perhaps an isolation shelf? What cables are you using? Something like Mark Grant's G1000HD can give you a good gee-up in performance. What sort of power cables are you using, and are they going direct to wall sockets?

I appreciate the lateral thinking. The Mantra is on a wall mounted glass turntable shelf and since being "inspired" it has four new sorbothane feet, so I think the isolation is pretty good. I'm not sure what you expect me to do with something like Mark Grant's G1000HD; the Rega RB301 connects direct to the phono input of the Kandy. As for mains cabling, yes it's the original Manticore mains lead and plug connected to a cheap old gang-of-four which connects to the wall socket. I can imagine that replacing the gang-of-four might be money well spent.