View Full Version : This forum has ruined my life
alcarmichael
04-08-2012, 09:02
/bank balance!
I started looking for my first turntable a month or two ago, setting a sensible budget of £200. After a bit of research and starting a couple of threads on other forums, I decided on a Rega Planar 3. I then stumbled upon this forum and it's Technics fans, I'm now 5 times over budget, still require a phono stage and cartridge and haven't yet played a record!
I propose this forum be banned for the safety of others.
realysm42
04-08-2012, 09:04
I feel your pain. I came on here to find out what a dac does. I've spent more than 10x what the dac cost me now...
So both, what have you spent money on?????
Nowt wrong with a properly set up Planar 3 - on a wall shelf away from corners, everything done up right and new belt and preferably fixed motor mod.. A techie doesn't necessarily NEED to have thousands spent on it to perform to a good standard, the feet and mat being the first and cheapest (Vantage Audio) to deal with.
None of the forums have persuaded me to buy anything - I wouldn't take anything you read, or are told, as gospel.
jandl100
04-08-2012, 10:25
Whoa, Alex! :wowzer:
Ummmm ... you seem to be missing the point - which is to play music! :lol:
alcarmichael
04-08-2012, 11:41
So both, what have you spent money on?????
1210 with Mike New Bearing, Tempest PSU, Micro Seiki arm, Target shelf and of course a few records.
My first cartridge will be decided on when the guy selling the arm kindly turns up with a selection of them, along with some feet, mats and phono stages to experiment with.
daytona600
04-08-2012, 12:09
Next you,ll be thinking about valve amps & horns to go with your rega
alcarmichael
04-08-2012, 12:10
You saying I'll sell the Technics and buy a Rega?
/bank balance!
I started looking for my first turntable a month or two ago, setting a sensible budget of £200. After a bit of research and starting a couple of threads on other forums, I decided on a Rega Planar 3. I then stumbled upon this forum and it's Technics fans, I'm now 5 times over budget, still require a phono stage and cartridge and haven't yet played a record!
I propose this forum be banned for the safety of others.
I think this happens more than some might think.
I’m curious now Alex. Have you heard one of these tweaked Technics record decks?
If not, why on earth are you considering one?
I’ve seen a few people join forums ostensibly playing with a full deck on their arrival only to join in with some of the more far fetched enthusiasm for various products, ideals and tweakery without any obvious evidence of having investigated by thorough research, or even subjective trial, the equipment and more importantly I think on forums such as these; why might someone have an interest in promoting one product/view over another.
Keeping an open mind is highly commendable but don’t open it so far that the brain falls out with your wallet following closely behind. ;)
alcarmichael
04-08-2012, 12:33
I have only ever heard a standard 1210. When buying something new though I tend to read for hours and hours doing my research. This got me hooked on the mods, even though I know I should have just bought a cart, mat and feet to begin with :doh: :mental:
At least everything I've bought is second hand and at a price I believe to be a good one. If it doesn't work for me I should be able to recoup the money I've spent.
I think that's a bit strong, John, and more than a little insulting to those of us here who have very successfully gone down the road of your claimed "far fetched enthusiasm". Please be more considerate when expressing your views in future, otherwise they simply come across as thread-crapping and mean-spirited.
Many people here (and on other forums) have bought equipment on the recommendation of others, based on the opinions of those, to some degree, we trust - even me, all those years ago, when I took the plunge and bought a fully KAB-modified SL-1210, from the States, paying £1300 in advance for the privilege, to a complete stranger on the other side of the world! The rest, as they say, is history...
How else was I supposed to make a decision on buying, what was then, a completely unknown quantity??
...And so it is with people like Alex (and many others) who have embarked on the journey of modifying a Technics turntable, since as the nature of the modifications are so bespoke, and where so many variables exist, are very difficult to audition prior to purchase.
Sometimes you've just got to take a punt on something, and go on gut instinct, although this is perhaps a process that doesn't sit comfortably with objectivists, who shun using their human instincts in that way! ;) It is, however, a perfectly valid way of selecting equipment, and namely a turntable that has provided 100s of others here with much joy in owning, when suitably modified, what is one of the best sounding examples of such money can buy!
Alex, rest assured that you've made an excellent choice, the proof of which will soon be revealed to YOUR ears (the only ones that matter), as soon as you play your first record :cool:
Marco.
Sort of reminds me of a well known joke about a tourist in Ireland who asks one of the locals for directions to Dublin. The Irishman replies: ‘Well sir, if I were you, I wouldn’t start from here’!
;)
alcarmichael
04-08-2012, 13:10
:lol:
I think that's a bit strong, John, and more than a little insulting to those of us here who have very successfully gone down the road of your claimed "far fetched enthusiasm". Please be more considerate when expressing your views in future, otherwise they simply come across as thread-crapping and mean-spirited.
Many people here (and on other forums) have bought equipment on the recommendation of others, based on the opinions of those, to some degree, we trust - even me, all those years ago, when I took the plunge and bought a fully KAB-modified SL-1210, from the States, paying £1300 in advance for the privilege, to a complete stranger! The rest, as they say, is history...
How else was I supposed to make a decision on buying, what was then, a completely unknown entity??
...And so it is with people like Alex (and many others) who have embarked on the journey of modifying a Technics turntable, since as the nature of the modifications are so bespoke, and where so many variables exist, are very difficult to audition prior to purchase.
Sometimes you've just got to take a punt on something, and go on gut instinct, although this is perhaps a process that doesn't sit comfortably with objectivists, who shun using their human instincts in that way! ;) It is, however, a perfectly valid way of selecting equipment, and namely a turntable that has provided 100s of others here with much joy in owning, when suitably modified, one of the best sounding examples money can buy!
Alex, rest assured that you've made an excellent choice, the proof of which will soon be revealed to YOUR ears (the only ones that matter), as soon as you play your first record :cool:
Marco.
Ah, well, I do do a bit strong from time to time Marco and it certainly wasn’t meant to come over as insulting in any way or, even anti Technics. I mean, how could I know having not heard a tweaked Technics?
However, if AoS did have a moto it could well be “trust your ears”.
While I may not entirely agree with the moto it’s a far better starting point imo than trust what you read.
So, if I was heading into a bit of a rant I’ll hopefully reign it in with suggesting that in general it’s a very good idea to get to hear products (and in this case a modded Techie, which given the number of open offers given by members here with such decks doesn’t seem impossible) before embarking on a course which from my understanding may cost a few thousand pounds.
Hi John,
Ah, well, I do do a bit strong from time to time Marco and it certainly wasn’t meant to come over as insulting in any way or, even anti Technics.
It's the general tone of your posts and choice of language sometimes, which I'm referring to, such as: "far fetched enthusiasm"; "far fetched" in what way and according to whom? Indeed, how would they know unless they've tried the items in question??
I'm not quite sure, therefore, amongst those you were referring to, how such remarks could be construed in any way other than as anti-Technics.
I mean, how could I know having not heard a tweaked Technics?
Well, you've got a recording of music on one which, correct me if I'm wrong, you consider as being rather good? ;)
However, if AoS did have a moto it could well be “trust your ears”.
While I may not entirely agree with the moto it’s a far better starting point imo than trust what you read.
Yes, but it's not a matter of blindly trusting what you read - far from it; it's a matter of reading people's opinions written here (and perhaps also elsewhere) and judging whether or not they may have some merit. There is a difference between that and what you're implying, and I believe that's all Alex has done.
So, if I was heading into a bit of a rant I’ll hopefully reign it in with suggesting that in general it’s a very good idea to get to hear products (and in this case a modded Techie, which given the number of open offers given by members here with such decks doesn’t seem impossible) before embarking on a course which from my understanding may cost a few thousand pounds.
Sure, providing that there is someone living near you who can demonstrate the items you're interested in on the turntable in question, which is easier said than done, considering that there are so many different modification options available for the Technics.
Furthermore, the ideal way is to hear one such example in YOUR own system, therefore visiting others and hearing the effects there of certain equipment, only tells you so much. At the end of the day, unless you're very fortunate to be able to hear the exact combination of products you're considering buying first, in your own system, then all you can do is judge the opinions of others who already use said products, and go on what your gut feeling tells you.
After all, what did people do before with reviews in hi-fi magazines, before forums like this existed?
Marco.
I don’t disagree with most of what you’ve written Marco. :)
Returning to the original post I get the impression that the cost of a tweaked Technics is not an insignificant amount to Alex.
I also agree that sometimes one has to take a punt at a product because getting a satisfactory demo isn’t always possible.
From my own experience taking a punt based pretty much on the recommendation of others, even those whose opinions one might have some respect for isn’t always successful and can turn out rather costly.
For example, I bought my Buffalo 11 Dac primarily on such recommendations and frankly it just isn’t that special and I’m left with an indifferent sounding piece of kit that cost a few hundred to buy and a great many hours building and tweaking only to get put aside eventually as a project that, if those who recommended it are to be believed may sound considerably improved if I spend another few hundred pounds.
Same applies to my second CD player purchase and the few cables I’ve bought.
If you have the money to spare on what may prove to be a less than satisfactory punt then why not, but this doesn’t seem to be the case for Alex.
So, while my tone may not meet with your approval Marco I would argue that my point is fundamentally sound.
If someone has acknowldged they struggle financially with the cost of less expensive equipment and then states they are considering a much more expensive route it seems like very sound advice to say go and check one out before you commit yourself.
This forum has ruined my loaf. I simply cannot get one to rise properly after joining here:scratch:
Sure, John, but you may be assuming that you know rather too much about Alex. Let's see what he has to say on the matter :)
The bottom line is that auditioning any form of a modified Technics turntable, is not as easy to do as carrying out the same with products that are more commercially available. Therefore, there is always likely to exist an element of risk, and so the required risk assessment can only be carried out by the potential buyer.
All I would ask is that in future you refrain from using inflammatory language, such as "far fetched enthusiasm", when expressing your perfectly valid opinion, as all it serves to do is irritate those of whom who have carried out, very successfully, what your rather derogatory remark was aimed at. You can still make your point perfectly well without being rude or demeaning the experiences of others.
Marco.
This forum has ruined my loaf. I simply cannot get one to rise properly after joining here:scratch:
Aye, and Mrs Puffin tells me that's not all you can't get to rise! :eyebrows:
Marco.
RobbieGong
04-08-2012, 14:57
I like Alex's thread because it has struck a cord that I too can totally relate to so I know exactly how he feels. In a nutshell this forum is like a young kiddy suddenly subscribing to a confectionary specialist where he suddenly has access to loads of info in relation to more sweets and sweetie combinations. He's had a taste, some of the sweets taste amazing, I'ts addictive, costs and he wants more. When I joined it was for the love of music and hifi. I would never have guessed that it would have led to me spending £460 on a Ortofon 2M Black, Mike New Bearing £465 or thereabouts, £418 external psu, prior to that purchasing a Timestep psu, then £200+ on QED Silver Spiral cable and loads more trying and swapping out different mats. Oh! and I've just remembered that I also did the Oyaide mat and weight at £450, add KAB damper and Issonoes to the list too. In fact I cant believe how much I've spent that I actually dont have :eek: (overdrawn). I had never ever used a credit card until this 'addiction' kicked in and now owe on that too (If the Mrs ever knew !!.. :stalks:). Do I regret it NO because the journey has brought me immense musical pleasure, hearing more and more realism from my system / Techie is seriously rewarding and addictive and that's the problem. Despite spending so much and being in debt you detect where the upgrades are incomplete - weak links highlighted. My system sounds great but a yearning for an upgrade (Funk) arm and upgrade platter leave me unfullfilled and thats not good because that equates to another £1400 or so - Lord help me :mental::scratch:
Which illustrates certain points in Johns post perfectly methinks...
I knew from the outset when I committed to buy my Techie that I would not be able to afford the 'accepted' upgrade philosophy espoused on this good forum of ours, so I did some research and discovered that there is another route to upgrade what is already a good turntable which would incur far less expense. Maybe my deck won't sound as good as some of the supercharged, bi-turbo'd street rockets which exist on here, however I'm more than comfortable with where I am going with this and I'm really quite excited to hear what my latest acquisition, a Paul Hynes SR3 p/s, will add to the mix ;)
Which illustrates certain points in Johns post perfectly methinks...
We're all big boys though, Dave, and (supposedly) intelligent free-thinkers, so no-one is twisting our arms up our backs and making us do something that we don't want to do!
I guess that it's natural to investigate a route that's proven to be so successful for others - and let's face it, how many people who've judiciously modified a Techy, lightly or extensively, haven't been successful, and thus delighted, at what they've set out to achieve.....?
The many and varied experiences that people have related here, in that respect, are hardly awash with sob stories!! ;)
Marco.
I knew I was onto a winner when I bought the VA feet which did an excellent job of bringing everything into focus and firming up the bottom end (ooer missus). I'm expecting even more from the p/s upgrade... :D
let's face it, how many people who've judiciously modified a Techy, lightly or extensively, haven't been successful, and thus delighted, at what they've set out to achieve.....?
Me!
Fair enough, Mike, but you're most definitely in the minority.
How far did you take modifying your Techy, and what was about the results, sonically, that you didn't like, and which you considered to be superior with your Denon?
Refresh my memory, as I can't remember :)
Marco.
Fair enough, Mike, but you're most definitely in the minority.
How far did you take modifying a Techy, and what was about the results, sonically, that you didn't like, and which you considered to be superior with your Denon?
Refresh my memory, as I can't remember.
Marco.
The Techy was utter rubbish... honestly, really really bad!
I mean, the damn thing didn't even have the decency to get delivered, all modification attempts after that were a total disaster! :rolleyes:
Terrible turntable.
Hehehehe... Ah yes, it'd forgotten all about that!! :lol: Who knows what might have been, eh?
Never mind, you're most probably financially richer as a result! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Audioman
04-08-2012, 17:38
/bank balance!
I started looking for my first turntable a month or two ago, setting a sensible budget of £200. After a bit of research and starting a couple of threads on other forums, I decided on a Rega Planar 3. I then stumbled upon this forum and it's Technics fans, I'm now 5 times over budget, still require a phono stage and cartridge and haven't yet played a record!
I propose this forum be banned for the safety of others.
I feel sorry for you. As far as the info on this forum is concerned most is good advice. However you should not blindly follow all the Technics suggestions here. If you have a budget try and stick to it. For £1000 it should be possible to buy a good new or used TT and arm with phono stage and cartridge. There are plenty alternatives out there that may provide a better path for you.
You have to remeber that John labours under the misapprehension that you need to spend thousands on a TT before it comes up to the standard of even a basic streaming set up.;)
Personally I also find it a little insulating when other people say to me 'ooh are you sure you know what your doing spending all that money?' Well yes, I'm 43 years old and my mistakes are my own. It's not like I will ever have to go to them with my hand out syaing 'you were right please bail me out.' People post here asking for advise they want to receive advice, options and suggestions, not a bunch of posts saying 'you need to listen to all the options and make your mind up youself. ' For most of us that is simply not practical due to time, distance and availability. So we take a punt, follow a tip, and maybe learn a little along the way. It's all good.
WOStantonCS100
04-08-2012, 18:18
/bank balance!
I started looking for my first turntable a month or two ago, setting a sensible budget of £200. After a bit of research and starting a couple of threads on other forums, I decided on a Rega Planar 3. I then stumbled upon this forum and it's Technics fans, I'm now 5 times over budget, still require a phono stage and cartridge and haven't yet played a record!
I propose this forum be banned for the safety of others.
Sweet pain. ;)
At times I have felt like I have gone overboard (or am going overboard). However, at night when it's quiet and I'm listening to the music, I am so very thankful I was able to and did take things to that "crazy" level. The rewards are many.
IMO, tweaking ones main system is a lot easier on the nerves when one has a secondary system to listen to in the interim, even if it's just a boom box; the music being paramount.
Hi Martin,
People post here asking for advise they want to receive advice, options and suggestions, not a bunch of posts saying 'you need to listen to all the options and make your mind up youself'. For most of us that is simply not practical due to time, distance and availability. So we take a punt, follow a tip, and maybe learn a little along the way. It's all good.
Spot on, especially regarding the bit in bold! Forums are for relating your experiences to others, in as much useful detail as possible, and for people to make up their own minds, based on what is being recommended or otherwise.
The alternative is this place full nothing but 'you need to listen to all the options and make your mind up youself' type of advice, or look at some wanky graphs. How bloody dull and BORING would that be?? :doh: :rolleyes:
Marco.
Some people taking the OP literally. Reading between the lines he's actually enjoying himself, I think.
Indeed. He certainly will be as soon as the needle hits the groove!! :exactly:
Marco.
l have to say that this forum actually saved me money......... too tired to go in to detail now.:trust:
Let's hear it when you get a chance then, Andy! :)
Marco.
for what its worth im rather pleased to have found a nice mixed group of music lovers here. as thats how i see you all, before delving into systems people here own its about the pride peoples have for what they love.
on the tt front, im loving my gyro as my main source for music and wouldnt begrudge anyone with the spirit and means to own a modded technics. If I could afford another tt i would! ive spent years around those mainly with wanna be dj's and some real ones too. they are what I grew up around in the 80s and with regards to what you can get from modding one, i put it on the same level as pc's. the idea of a standard one compared to one thats be specifically altered to meet your needs is key. obviously affording one at that level is another matter but if you can then by all means do.
i always value peoples opinions and advice here as it makes me more informed of my choices with regards to what i love most.
and thats music :)
By learning about equipment through this forum and improving my system, I've really developed my appreciation of music. I've had the opportunity to benefit from the experience and knowledge of others, such as Ali and Jerry, whose opinions I have come to trust. Hence my taking a punt on the Edingdales, and I'm very glad I did. Likewise with valve amps and linear psu's, and mains blocks etc...
Sure it's cost me some money, and in the cold light of day the idea of spending hundreds of quid on some cables can seem a little absurd, but f*ck it, it'd only go on decorating or fixing the car otherwise, and I don't plan to upgrade, so the value improves over time...
If only I had better taste in music ;)
All the OP needs is a vintage Goldring G800 for the Techie and, for now, a cheapie phono stage for £20 or so (Pyle Pro?) to get him going.....
Here is how bad it can get - I had a dream last night that a work colleague offered to sell me one of those big Flagship Marantz integrateds from the early 1980s - I had a listen to it in my set up and it sounded awesome - just the sound I am looking for (and don't really have). Now I am thinking 'was this a sign? Should I seek one out?'. Therapy required, probably :)
Here is how bad it can get - I had a dream last night that a work colleague offered to sell me one of those big Flagship Marantz integrateds from the early 1980s - I had a listen to it in my set up and it sounded awesome - just the sound I am looking for (and don't really have). Now I am thinking 'was this a sign? Should I seek one out?'. Therapy required, probably :)
Dreams go by opposites, so what it was really telling you was to go for a cottage industry minimalist British amp.
Just had a look on e-Bay and fortunately there arn't any for sale at the moment.
Anyway if dreams mean opposites what about that one where I copped off with Kylie? ;)
Just had a look on e-Bay and fortunately there arn't any for sale at the moment.
Anyway if dreams mean opposites what about that one where I copped off with Kylie? ;)
It means you are secretly gay and fancy Jason Donovan.
It means you are secretly gay and fancy Jason Donovan.
Damn! I always suspected it...
This forum has certainly saved me money and given me better sounds.
Turntable (I so very nearly went down the VPI Scout/Super Scout route, where I would never have purchased my dream arm and a deck that outperforms almost everything I've ever heard). Cables. DAC. Small tweaks.
for what its worth im rather pleased to have found a nice mixed group of music lovers here.
Actually, I think that's worth a lot, Raz - I like to think (hope!) we're a bunch of music lovers first and foremost.
alcarmichael
05-08-2012, 20:10
Wow! I've had a lot of catching up to do reading all these posts! I never realised there'd be so many responses. I was going to multi-quote but there were simply too many posts to reply too!
For those of you who didn't get it, my thread was composed with tongue firmly in cheek! Though there was some element of truth in there, it was meant to be light hearted. Seems I've pretty much hit the nail on the head with some of you though :)
I have no idea how anyone can work out my financial situation from my original post? :lol: I have no debt, no wife and no kids. I'm far from rich but due to the previous sentence all the money I earn is my own. Simply put, if I couldn't have afforded this deck I would have bought something else. Admittedly, like I said, I did set my initial budget at £200, just to get 'in' to vinyl. Then, if things went well I fully intended to upgrade in the future. I came very close to buying a standard Technics, then found the one I've now got, with highly regarded modifications already installed at what I decided to be a very good price. Since I'm already at a good standard with the TT I've decided to go right ahead and upgrade the arm while I'm at it. The kind gent selling the arm is coming down to me in a couple of weeks with the arm, a selection of cartridges, mats and phono stages, along with some feet. He's even kindly offered to loan me a Rotel phono stage to get me going once I've chosen my cartridge.
I imagine like most of you, it's not just the TT but also the rest of my gear I could hardly imagine forking out for a few years ago, it just kinda happened and it makes me :) every time I listen to music. I'm hoping my new TT will make my :) a :D
Wow! I've had a lot of catching up to do reading all these posts! I never realised there'd be so many responses. I was going to multi-quote but there were simply too many posts to reply too!
For those of you who didn't get it, my thread was composed with tongue firmly in cheek! Though there was some element of truth in there, it was meant to be light hearted. Seems I've pretty much hit the nail on the head with some of you though :)
I have no idea how anyone can work out my financial situation from my original post? :lol: I have no debt, no wife and no kids. I'm far from rich but due to the previous sentence all the money I earn is my own. Simply put, if I couldn't have afforded this deck I would have bought something else. Admittedly, like I said, I did set my initial budget at £200, just to get 'in' to vinyl. Then, if things went well I fully intended to upgrade in the future. I came very close to buying a standard Technics, then found the one I've now got, with highly regarded modifications already installed at what I decided to be a very good price. Since I'm already at a good standard with the TT I've decided to go right ahead and upgrade the arm while I'm at it. The kind gent selling the arm is coming down to me in a couple of weeks with the arm, a selection of cartridges, mats and phono stages, along with some feet. He's even kindly offered to loan me a Rotel phono stage to get me going once I've chosen my cartridge.
I imagine like most of you, it's not just the TT but also the rest of my gear I could hardly imagine forking out for a few years ago, it just kinda happened and it makes me :) every time I listen to music. I'm hoping my new TT will make my :) a :D
Ah, my apologies then. I had taken you somewhat literally. :)
The words bank balance, two hundred pound budget, title and five times over, led me to believe that although slightly tongue in cheek you had genuine concerns. :eyebrows::D
So, I’ll adjust my comment and say sure, if you can afford it, knock yourself out.
I would hate to be the instigator of any online rumour that you may be poor or anything.:ner::D
The listening first comments still apply. ;)
I confess my literacy is becoming more emicon dependant and a wink, or even a tongue out always helps me to gain a better understanding of the tone of a post. :doh:
alcarmichael
05-08-2012, 20:39
Then for your benefit John, my posts will forever now include a :) or two.
If you took my thread literally, did you really think this forum had ruined my life? ;)
Then for your benefit John, my posts will forever now include a :) or two.
If you took my thread literally, did you really think this forum had ruined my life? ;)
I'll just draw your attention to the 'slightly tongue in cheek' comment I made above. ;)
alcarmichael
05-08-2012, 20:55
Furry muff :D
Rare Bird
05-08-2012, 20:59
Wat an intresting topic! however no comment :lol:
alcarmichael
05-08-2012, 21:04
Come on Andr'e from nowhere - tell all. :eyebrows:
RobbieGong
05-08-2012, 21:33
Hi Alex, What arm are you looking to put on it ?
alcarmichael
05-08-2012, 21:36
Micro Seiki MA 202
alcarmichael
05-08-2012, 21:42
:) To be honest I can find very little information on the arm so I'm pleased you've commented positively. The service the guy is providing me is just too good to turn down.
To be honest I can find very little information on the arm...
Alex, have a look at http://www.vinylengine.com/library/micro-seiki/ma-202.shtml
Regards
alcarmichael
05-08-2012, 21:50
Thanks Barry,
I actually joined VE to find more information on the arm, other than that spec list I didn't find a great deal more. Seems highly regarded by the few who do know of it though, and it does look very nice. :)
Ah, my apologies then. I had taken you somewhat literally. :)
Told ya! You worry too much ;)
Marco.
Told ya! You worry too much ;)
Marco.
Indeed. ;)
You’ll be pleased to know I’ve made a note in my diary to enroll in clairvoyance classes. :D
I obviously let my delight at the prospect of another modest income audiophile who may come to question the wisdom participating in the diminish returns tweak race draw out my more emotional and caring side. :eyebrows:
I also had hopes that I might be able to sell him my old ABX comparator to help him decide on a less value judgment ridden upgrade path. :D
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