DAC or turntable

[AJSki2fly]

Hi all

Been a while since I have posted, been enjoying my set up and just upgrade with the Chord Epics, quite an improvement.

So now I have a bit of a dilemma, a very good friend has offered me his Project Xperience with a Blue Rondo for a very good price as he is upgrading, however I then need to start purchasing my favourite recordings on vinyl.

I was also thinking of buying a DAC to improve the front end a bit, probably the Audiolab m-DAC or Musical Fidelity M1 DAC.

Question is what do I do? I can afford the turntable or the DAC, I have around 800 cd's and a reasonable number of SACD types that are good.

If I went for a DAC is the Audiolab worth extrac £200?

So advice would be appreciated....

:)

[hifi_dave]

Personally, I would go with a turntable, as that will give you a whole new world of music reproduction. I can't see that an Audiolab or MF Dac will give more than a tiny improvement or possibly none at all.

Get a turntable and start buying vinyl.

[YNWaN]

Personally, I'm a committed vinyl user. However, I have a lot of records and hardly any CD's. In addition, the Project is OK, but hardly the last word in analogue playback and it is unlikely you will not want to upgrade it.

I have recently spent quite a bit of time listening to the M-Dac and I must say it offers a lot for the money (though i don't know the Musical Fidelity you mention at all). Reluctantly (because I do love record players), I would recommend the M-Dac to you, given the number of CD's you already own.
____________

Oh, I've just seen that you have a Meridian 508; as Dave writes above, you may find the difference to be less than expected so I would definitely get a dem first.

[sq225917]

The Audiolab is a good DAC and you'd have to spend a couple of grand on cart-deck-phonostage to beat it- that's assuming you have no emotional preference for digital or vinyl.

It will sound different to your 508, it's more resolving in the bass and a little more forward and 'driven'. Honestly though, you need to demo one to be sure.

[Kvaal]

Go for the dac. Then you can look up an old Lenco L 75, L 78, B 52 or B 55 for cheap. Plays better than most modern tts.

[hifi_dave]

Hi Johan. I believe you are supposed to check in and join up before posting.

[Kvaal]

Sorry, but i don't understand. I am member of the forum.

[wee tee cee]

I run an mf m1 dac and really like it, what I would say is you have to be careful partnering it with equipment, it can come across as a bit bright in some set ups. It has a lovely detailed presentation,great sound stage and seems quite even keel across a variety of musical genres. I can recommend it as a quality bit of kit with great build quality and reliability. I haven't heard the audiolab so cant compare. I prefered the MF to the rega in my set up....If you can get them at home for a demo and trust your ears rather than reviews...

[technobear]

Sorry, but i don't understand. I am member of the forum.

Hi Kvaal!

What he means is that you must create a new thread in the 'Welcome' forum and introduce yourself. Tell us about your hifi and your music collection.

[Kvaal]

Very well! I´ll do that.

[chelsea]

Will a cheap dac make any improvement over the cdp you already have?

[technobear]

The real question here is "how good is the digital output of the 508?"

If it's good then the M-DAC will shine.

If it's poor then the M-DAC might not improve on the built-in DAC by very much. Having said that, the Sabre DAC chip in the M-DAC does seem to have remarkable jitter rejection powers.

I think a demo is the order of the day.

[AJSki2fly]

Ok, just to clarify, the DAC in the 508 is good, with good presence and control from low to high bandwidth, however Meridian created the 563 and 566 DAC's to partner the 500 series range cd players and it was generally accepted 20 years ago that these were an improvement on the Onboard DAC. one presume that with time DAC's have improved due to design getting better, so hence my thoughts on hougts on the Audiolab m-DAC. I also know of a secondhand 566 DAC for sale.

If anyone knows that this out-performs the modern m-DAC then I would go for the 566, it's difficult as whilst I can demo the m-DAC I can't the Meridian.

[chelsea]

Maybe sell the meridian and add the cash from the sale and get a better cdp.

Or

Get a cheap transport and more expensive dac

Or

If you fancy a change get a squeeze box and a dac if you feel you need one.

[Yomanze]

At the £350 and below price range I'd be looking at something like a Theta DS Pro Progeny for a fantastically non-digital, deep, analogue sound or a classic TDA1541A DAC like the Musical Fidelity Digilog, perhaps even something like:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AVI-S2000MD-Digital-Analogue-Convertor-DAC-Discrete-output-Philips-TDA1541A-S1-/350584845172?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item51a07c3374#ht_678wt_1296

...think that buy it now price is a bit steep though I must admit.

[flatpopely]

I have an MDAC on loan. It's not as good as my TT, BUT.........it's stunning for £600 at hi res and Spotify.

My only reservation is that CD (played using laptop) was worse than Spotify, that might be bad for you Mr OP.

[technobear]

My only reservation is that CD (played using laptop) was worse than Spotify, that might be bad for you Mr OP.

That should definitely not be the case.

External or internal optical drive?

Which application did you use to play the CD?

Were you using USB?

Which USB driver? (ASIO, Kernel Streaming, WASAPI, Direct Sound, etc)



Back to the OP, you really need to be using Async USB or have a very good SPDIF source (like a Logitech Transporter) for the M-DAC to give its best performance.

Although the M-DAC has good jitter rejection on its SPDIF inputs, the sound quality will still depend on how good the SPDIF source is.

If the DAC is to be used only with the digital output of the 508 then a Beresford Caiman or Bushmaster will do a very good job for less money. Perhaps you could borrow one to try.

[DSJR]

Into a naim-style line stage, I reckon a Bushmaster would eat an MDAC, the designer of this latter not seeming to know quite where he's going with it, judging by the pages and pages devoted to it on PFM!

I had a fantastic vinyl session yesterday, using a high-torque idler deck, a vintage grado F1+ cartridge and my Croft/Quad II setup. The sonics weren't "so" different from the best of digital, response differences accepted, but the presentation was so addictive.....

So, what to do? IMO, I'd ignore the Pro-Ject in this instance, and look out for summat like a vintage Lenco 70 or similar earlier deck. Since you use NVA, one of Richard's phono stages should be mandatory here. Fitted with an Ortofon GT or OM Pro (silver model) and eventually put into a better? plinth, the sound from vinyl takes on a whole new and often better "personality" which, on vintage records with good cuts, will properly suit the music as vinyl was the end medium the mixes were intended for. "Just" taking a digital dub of such a master tape and fiddling with it a bit isn't the whole answer...

The Meridian CD player looks gorgeous, but ten years have seen the price of top end DAC performance plummet as yet more is properly integrated into the chipsets and far eastern manufacturing has had a big share in this too. A fancy casework doesn't improve the sound particularly.


Just a quick story. I'm a fan of the band "Camel." The original recordings for Decca were pretty good as I remember and the on first CD issues, the engineer (Tony Hawkins I believe) added a little eq at 40Hz to give a touch of weight. Not much, but enough to power the sound along a bit. The later transfers, done by ex-Decca man Paschal Byrne, don't appear to have this eq added and into small speakers, these recordings are a bit bright in tone if more "accurate" to the master tape balance as delivered to the record company. The LP's in comparison, do have added weight in sound, which suits the music well...

I enjoy both formats, now more than ever, accepting the different presentation and the fact that a well produced VINYL RECORD can often be the best sound for a particular vintage recording. Albums not so dependant on the playback medium continue to thrill on "digital" and now sound better than ever, generally speaking.....

Hope it helps a bit. Lenco's rule :lol:

[sq225917]

Into a naim-style line stage, I reckon a Bushmaster would eat an MDAC, the designer of this latter not seeming to know quite where he's going with it, judging by the pages and pages devoted to it on PFM!

I haven't heard the Bushmaster, but i do own A Weiss 202 and also the Mdac that Andrew is borrowing. I can tell you one thing with certainty, if you think 'any dac' is going to 'eat' the Mdac you are sadly mistaken. It's so close to the Weiss it's not funny.

The Mdac has its own built in Class A pre-amp stage, why would one choose to plug it into a line stage?

[flatpopely]

I haven't heard the Bushmaster, but i do own A Weiss 202 and also the Mdac that Andrew is borrowing. I can tell you one thing with certainty, if you think 'any dac' is going to 'eat' the Mdac you are sadly mistaken. It's so close to the Weiss it's not funny.

The Mdac has its own built in Class A pre-amp stage, why would one choose to plug it into a line stage?

Please don't ask for it back :D

[AndrewR]

If you go for a DAC, I've heard both the MF and Audiolab DAC in my own system. The MF was disappointing. The Audiolab was superb (I was buying for my brother-in-law). Listen to the difference, but definitely get to hear the MDAC.

Andrew

[Audioman]

Into a naim-style line stage, I reckon a Bushmaster would eat an MDAC, the designer of this latter not seeming to know quite where he's going with it, judging by the pages and pages devoted to it on PFM!


Is that based on experience Dave or just speculation ! :) I think a modern DAC will have to be pretty good to improve on the Meridian (and other 15/20 year old quality players). Certainly worth a try if you intend to use for other sources other than red book CD. The MDAC certainly gets a lot of plaudits. The trouble is the designer is such a good bloke and customer focused that he is trying to satisfy too many individual PFM posters problems and constantly add modifications. I think this design may only be fully realised when a 'Lakewest' branded version eventualy reaches these shores.

[daytona600]

A good turntable will sound better and keep its value How much will a mid price Dac be worth in a couple of years

[flatpopely]

A good turntable will sound better and keep its value How much will a mid price Dac be worth in a couple of years

I'm afraid that I don't agree. The MDAC I have runs a very high spec LP12 close, it's not better but it very, very good. I suspect a new £2k deck would not be better and you will have to pay a lot more new or DIY a deck like the 1210/LP12 to a high standard.

As to value, that's a moot point when talking sound quality.