View Full Version : This is driving me nuts !!!!!
Can anyone please explain this to me because it really drives me crazy.Let's say to day i decide to listen to music.I turn the system on early in the morning so that everything is warmed-up and ready to go.In the afternoon i sit down to listen to some music and everything sounds nasty.Usually it is too much treble.I then spend the whole afternoon changing speaker cables and interconnects.When i find a combination that is,let's just say,"acceptable",
i realize something else went wrong.Usally compressed sound and/or shrinked soundstage.Again,i begin changing stuff only to come back to the combination
i had right from the begining and the crazy thing is,now i like what i hear !:confused:
Ali Tait
29-01-2009, 13:42
If it's evening before you like what you're hearing,it may be down to noise on your ac supply.Might be worth trying a filter or some such.
Peter Stockwell
29-01-2009, 14:27
i sit down to listen to some music and everything sounds nasty.Usually it is too much treble.I then spend the whole afternoon changing speaker cables and interconnects.When i find a combination that is,let's just say,"acceptable",
i realize something else went wrong.Usally compressed sound and/or shrinked soundstage.Again,i begin changing stuff only to come back to the combination
i had right from the begining and the crazy thing is,now i like what i hear !:confused:
First of all you're probably too picky. Second do you have a dedicated A/C line for your system?
Given that your system is revealing enough to have to 'warm up' the amps and sources etc- surely you should be warming up the speakers as well? :confused:
Probably power quality is a lot to do with it.
I do find that my speakers need 15 mins of playing before the bass is right. I either increase VTF by 0.1g to compensate or put up with it.
You may also find you are more receptive to relaxed listening in the evening.
Probably power quality is a lot to do with it.
You may also find you are more receptive to relaxed listening in the evening.
Agreed... You may find there's less mains borne 'crud' around in the evenings. Also changes in atmospheric pressure at night tend to make the sound 'carry' better... Usually.
Hmmmm Peter says i'm too picky.Ummmmm true :) Anyways,thanks guys.I believe i know what is wrong.Actually,i allways knew it but somehow whenever i listen to music i forget and get,how shall i put it,"crazy" to find a solution.First-of-all,i know from personal experience and by coincidence a reviewer came to the same concusion,the JR model 8ti needs almost 12 hours to perform it's best.Well...i can't leave it on permanently,i am not partners with the electricity co. lol so,in a few words,as time passes,it sweetens up and everything falls into place.Second,i've realised that my system isn't very happy with bad recordings,especially digital ones,but i wonder,who'se system is? As for the dedicated ac line,if you guys mean straight dedicated line from the ac box to my system,no but the room is full of Audioprism quietlines main adaptor and all my equipment are plugged to the mains using VanDenHul Mainstream ac cables,plus,all the sources (pre/cd/tt etc) are connected through a Isotek fully loaded substation.
Yiangos -
How much ambient noise is there in your house? If it's much noisier during the day than at night - due to traffic noise, say - then at night you'll be able to appreciate more of your system's signal to noise ratio, so you'll be able to hear deeper into the music. The subtle information that gives cues about soundstage etc will become more apparent when your room is quiet.
John
pentode10
29-01-2009, 21:22
I have to say I have the same problem too and it drives me crazy...
I'm prety sure it's mains born or RF born.
I do have a dedicated spur to the fuse box, which helps but is not a total cure.
I also use one of those Russ Andrews plug in the wall socket jobs.
It helps but is very subtle.
There is also a mobile phone mast about half a mile from me.
This can't help much either..
Does any one have experience with any of these mains filter conditioners etc and if so any recomendations.
Cheers
Andy.
Primalsea
29-01-2009, 23:18
Mains regenerators can be very good but they are expensive. I wasn't sure with what it done with my power amp but on everything else it done wonders. Filters are OK but you have to be careful as they can cause a gain in RFI if not matched to the equipment. Unfortunately most manufacturers of hifi filters dont give the info you need to match the filters so it can be a bit of trial and error. I use a Belkin filter that has 3 levels of filtering so I can try different things with the different levels to see what works best.
About a month ago I moved from mains reginartion a PS audio P500 to balanced power transformer and very happy with the results
Its not expensive so maybe worth a try
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/transformer/bps3110sp-balanced-power-supply.asp
Have not tired this model but see no reasons why this will not work just as well as another manufacturer who charges 10 times the price
Jonners,yes,there is more ambient noise in the day than during the evenings but not by a significant margin.
Andy(pentode10)for a moment i thought i was losing it but it's nice to know i am not alone lol
Primalsea,as i mentioned above,a cheap way to eliminate emi/rfi is with one or two of those relatively cheap plug-ins things such as the audioprism quietlines.They look like mains adaptors only they have no inlets to connect anything on them.If you have,say, 10 soclets in the listening room,connected in parallel,you plug one to the first socket and one to the last (10th) and the rest 8 are completely free from mains grunge.
BTW guys,has anyone else noticed the HUGH improvement in cds recorded with dsd?
Most power conditioning and plug-in suppressors I found were useful when I have a solidstate system. With valves I found they suck the life out of it. I put this down to valves being more tolerant of RFI and main crud. The benefits with solidstate seemed much more obvious therefore outweighing any disadvantages.
This stuff is so dependent on your individual situation it's not possible assume that what works in one situation will work in another.
Hi Yiangos,
I've been following this thread closely but up until now haven't had time to contribute.
I think the other guys are spot on with identifying mains as a possible culprit; however I also think that this is at the root of your problem:
I then spend the whole afternoon changing speaker cables and interconnects.When i find a combination that is,let's just say,"acceptable"
Cables, once carefully auditioned and selected, should be left alone to do their job and forgotten about. Quite simply, if your system was doing what it should be doing then the effect of your cables would be 'invisible' and not at the forefront of your mind when listening to music.
Obsessing and fiddling with them such as you've described above suggests to me that there's something fundamentally wrong with your system's sonic presentation; or at least something fundamentally wrong with it presenting music the way YOU like it to sound, which is the most important thing. Using cables effectively as 'tone controls' or as a 'sticking plaster' to cover up faults elsewhere, like you're doing, is always a bad idea. It's better to get to the root of the problem and sort it out at source.
What I'd like you to do, so I can help you further, is to list your complete system including all cables and accessories used, and how they are arranged (are cables neatly 'dressed' or just all jumbled up together?), particularly also things like stands and how the whole lot is set-up in the room. If possible, some pictures would be very useful. My feeling is that there's nothing essentially wrong with the core components you're using; more that the current set-up of such is not ideal. You're not alone - this is a common problem!
Once you've supplied the above information I'll be able to advise you further in more detail :)
Marco.
:)Marco,i appreciate you wanting to help me out on this but i know where the problem lies.
Sometimes i like to complain about things just because i find this site and all the guys here very nice and want to start a topic,even a silly one :) I believe my system is great ,
to my ears at least,proof of this is whenever i decide to upgrade something,eventually,i back off because i am afraid i will disturb the balance of my system.Sometimes it can sound a bit overbright but the truth is,it is not.What is actually wrong with it,is i quess room problem.I figured this out when i bought a Velodyne sms-1 to go with a pair of HGS-18 i am using with my home theater setup.When i meassured the response of my main loudspeakers(i thought they did not have the bass impact they should),i found out there were some serious "dips" in the response between 45-180 hz,when actually at 20hz were flat ! Yep.really crazy and to make you understand how serious the matter is/was,at a certain frequency and remember we are talking between 45-180 hz where all the bass and upper-bass energy lies,there was a "dip" almost 20db down ! In a few words,when a loudspeaker excibits such bad behaviour ie lack of upper bass due to whatever problem, this will make that louspeaker sound kinda lean and overbright. I did manage to compensate this by moving the loudspeakers closer to the back wall (24cm from the back of the speaker to the wall than 56cm before)but still,whenever i stand up,the sound is fuller.That was much more obvious before when the speakers were 56cm from the back wall.I could only hear real bass only when standing up which leads me to conclude that the problem lies in either of 3 things:1)my loudspeakers are too big(tall) for my room (but then again distance from the top-to-ceiling is 122cm which isn't that bad)2)There are some serious acoustic issues with the room 3)The woofer that is on the top site of my loudspeakers (Pseudo-D'Appolito arrangment and operates differently due to smaller chanber than the lower woofer and exactly at the frequencies i am having problems) is wrired out of phase.I quess i could find out about this using a battery and watch the woofers but anyways,for the sake of argument here's how my system is confgured right now.
cd player : Cary Audio cd-306/200
Turntable : SME 20.2 w/SME model V / Koetsu Urushi sky-blue
phono stage : E.A.R. 324
Pre/Power amp Jeff Rowland Synergy 2 / Model 8 ti
Loudspeakers : ProAc Response Four
Racks : clearlight audio aspect rack
Main Conditioner : Isotek Substation w/3 isolation transformers
cables and wires : Cardas HP headshell leads , Hovland Music Groove 2 tonearm cable.
VanDenHul mainstream ac cables throught , MAC Palladium from phonostage-to-pre , VanDenHul MC-Silver balanced for cd player and pre-to-power and Bi-Wire VanDenHul Revelations for loudspeakers.I wont mention any isolation components such as cones etc because right now my system lies half on the floor and half on the rack due to ummmmmm
cleaning process lol but i usually use black diamond racing mk3 cones with mk3 pits.
Spectral Morn
30-01-2009, 09:51
What type of room is it ? Is it a private room or shared space ? Is the floor solid (concrete) or a suspended wood floor ? Modern (spartan )or traditional decor. At a guess I would say its spartan/minimal with either wood floor (real/laminate) or even tiles. I say this as your choice of VDH cables suggest trying to tame the top end and fatten things a bit. I don't like VDH cables because of this effect, but in a bad room, it could work. Your gear is very good. If the room was more neutral in its impact I would have suggested you looking at cables from Atlas (one loom used through out your system) or if you want to dip your toes (and the rest of you ) I would have suggested Audience Au 24 (but its dear ). The Clearlight audio racks are excellent(I am a big fan of these. Though they are perhaps to dear now). The Jeff Rowland kit is also excellent. Pro-ac speakers need plenty of room (normally) to allow clean bass, as they can be a bit boomy. Get them right and wow...excellent imaging and vanishing properties.
I would try running your power amp of the wall socket and bi-pass the Isotek, everything else is okay but perhaps try with out and then add kit. Say starting with sources first, then pre etc. Isotek while very good can cause some dynamic compression issues, especially with the power amp.
However if I am right about the room decor....I would put down a carpet and or a big rubber backed rug that covers a fairly big part of the room. Modern decor is not good for acoustics...to bright and echo causing. Carpets rule in the listening room as does a solid concrete floor.
Do you run everything in balanced (XLR) hook up ? If not you should, as all of your gear is designed to be run this way.
regards D S D L---Neil :)
Yiangos,
Marco,i appreciate you wanting to help me out on this but i know where the problem lies.
Sometimes i like to complain about things just because i find this site and all the guys here very nice and want to start a topic,even a silly one
LOL. Go right on ahead then! I'm glad that you feel 'comfy' with the forum in that regard - it's precisely the kind of vibe we seek to create :)
Sometimes it can sound a bit overbright... Too much treble...
Aside from your room issues, which I'm sure could be a significant contributory factor, the above which keeps repeating itself throughout your posts, I feel is partly a cable issue and/or also the set-up of such.
First of all, how are your cables arranged? Are they neat and tidy and correctly 'dressed' so that signal cables are kept well away from power cables, and also so that signal cables (including speaker cables) aren't touching the walls? Or is it like spaghetti junction at the back of your rack with everything all jumbled up together? If it's the latter, you might be surprised at how much doing the former pays dividends! Basically, cables should 'hang' neatly in free space and not be coiled up in any way or touching other cables, or the floor, particularly cables carrying mains current.
In my experience people don't pay enough attention to 'cable dressing' (and also directionality), the effect of both in my experience is quite significant. The mentality is usually simply: "if it's plugged in then it's ok" no matter what sort of bollocks it looks like, without sufficient time and care taken to do things right. You can let me know if you fall into this category or not ;)
One of the fundamental reasons why my system sounds as good as it does is because of the attention to detail I've paid to its set-up. The fact is the boxes (or cables) can only deliver their full potential if you provide them with the correct environment in which to operate in...
cd player : Cary Audio cd-306/200
Turntable : SME 20.2 w/SME model V / Koetsu Urushi sky-blue
phono stage : E.A.R. 324
Pre/Power amp Jeff Rowland Synergy 2 / Model 8 ti
Loudspeakers : ProAc Response Four
Racks : clearlight audio aspect rack
Main Conditioner : Isotek Substation w/3 isolation transformers
cables and wires : Cardas HP headshell leads , Hovland Music Groove 2 tonearm cable.
VanDenHul mainstream ac cables throught , MAC Palladium from phonostage-to-pre , VanDenHul MC-Silver balanced for cd player and pre-to-power and Bi-Wire VanDenHul Revelations for loudspeakers.I wont mention any isolation components such as cones etc because right now my system lies half on the floor and half on the rack due to ummmmmm
cleaning process lol but i usually use black diamond racing mk3 cones with mk3 pits.
No doubt you've got an excellent system. Would I be right however in saying that the brightness you're experiencing is mostly on CD? Your high-end T/T set-up contains components which certainly are not known to exhibit the characteristics you describe.
Going back to cables, I think that the VDH silver cables you mention above are possible culprits. Silver cables can sometimes exhibit a somewhat forward balance and generate excessive treble energy. I'm not saying that's always the case (sometimes it's the opposite in fact), but it can happen depending on the purity of the silver used, where and how its used in the construction of the cable, and also which type of plugs are used, too.
Have you tried swapping the VDH cables in your CDP for the MAC Palladium ones used in your phono stage? If not, try it and see if that calms things down a bit - then we can look at your cable dressing...
The other thing I would say is when was the last time you dismantled everything and cleaned all the plugs and sockets throughout on your system (and also cables), even the pins on the plugs of your power leads? Again you might be surprised at what a difference all that can make! :)
Marco.
Hey Neil
Here's a bries answer to all your questions :)
Room: private room (i'm lucky i quess) concrete floor,semi-traditional and neither spartan nor overloaded.
VanDenHul cables: I love the MC-Silver,the original one not the mk2 or 3 which are both a bit too "forward" sounding for my tastes.I also have a pair of Nirvana SL balanced ic but although they are a bit less bright than the silvers,they,too,sound too forward.
As for the Audience Au24 being dear,i won't comment.I quess you don't know how much a 6 meter pair of balanced mc-silver cost rotfl but seriously now,from what i read in magazines,Audiences are not my cup of tea,rather a pair of Cardas Golden Gross i'd say.
The ProAcs are not boomy in my room and that is what puzzles me.
The room is fully carpeted and although i have some echo Buster "corner busters" and some other RPG acoustic treatments,to be honest,i can't detect any difference when i install them.Also,regarding mains,i run the power amp of the wall socket.Only the sources through the isotek
p.s. for a period,i throught out the VDH and used some quitar cables (12.50 per 10 meters).They were okay but when i setup the system better,i had to get rid of them.
Hi Yiangos,
Any idea where the bass drivers crossover? If you have bad room problems then running a dedicated bass amp with DSP to correct the bass issues can work wonders. You've played with a VMS-1 so you'll understand where I'm coming from. BUT, and this could be a big but, it's difficult to correct missing frequencies with DSP, you can remove the effects of +ve room modes but -ve ones (cancellation) really need room analysis to help with moving the speakers and/or listening position.
I use DSP on my bass, the transformation is HUGE. But that's my room, my system. Whether it helps balance brightness is another matter, it can do if you are missing bass frequencies and you can balance the sound with moving the speakers and listening position. You may end up with +ve room modes but no cancellation, in which then use DSP to fix the modes.
:gig:Marco,sorry for not responding to you but it seems you post your while i was posting mine ! lol
Anyways,i bet you got a few answers for my post to Neil but here's some more.
No,right now due to room re-arrangment/renovation/cleaning my cables are not neatly arranged but NEVER coiled up and yes,i allways pay attention to cable directionality but don't forget,my system runs balanced cables,therefore,even if i wanted,i couldn't plug the cables with wrong directivity.The Macs (palladium) are not trully ballaned but i pseudobalanced i quess because the Cary has 3volt output through the single ended outputs and 6 volts through the balanced.When i connect the Macs,i don't notice the volume increase i get when i connect a fully balanced cable such as the VDH but still, even with Macs the tonality is more or less the same. I have some quite cheap ics i bought 3 years ago from the States($58 per meter terminated with eichmann plugs)they're from a company called "Element Cables" and the cables are called "Musical ii".These tame the brightness a bit but they seriously shrink the soundstage.
I tell you what,i will re-arrange everything,clean everything (trust me,i have more accessories and cleaning equipment than a normal hi-fi dealer.I am just too lazy to use them lol) and let you know.Just give me a few days to sort things out.
Hi Clive
Last year,in my desperation i've tried something similar and imho,better than the sms-1.
I took the Jeff Rowland pair out in it's place run my HT amplfier (Denon ACV-A1XV),using it's built-in Audyssey sound processor,if that is the correct name of that thing). The results were much better than before but the sound had something i did not like.Something i really couldn't pinpoint but certainly did not like(can you hear the rest of the guys screaming DIGITAL? rotfl) It did fix the problem in a way but the other way around than i expected.Instead of increasing the lower/upper bass (it did,but slightly) it decreased the treble.Mind you,this was before i moved the loudspeakers.I haven't tried this ever since but if you ask me,this is better than the sms-1.You can't squeeze bass out of a speaker using something like an sms-1.Yes,you can tame excessive bass but not the other way round.In plain waords,the sms-1 is just an equalizer.parametric one but still an equalizer.
Steve Toy
30-01-2009, 10:55
I bet there is an interconnect touching a wall somewhere...
Steve,i am sure there is.The room is a mess but because i said so much and my English is not up to the task let me elaborate some things.I might be complaining abut overnrightness but i've poinpoint where the problem lies.it is not excessive treble but rather some luck of upper and mid- bass that makes the music seem bright.Lower bass is ok.Flat up to 20hz.It's the 45-180hz region that is problematic. And to answer Clive's question regarding crossover,Stewart Tyler isn't very open regarding the crossover frequency of the fours but i know the 2 bass drivers (one at the lower end of the loudspeaker and the other on top)work in different frequencies due to construction. It is something like a passive crossover.The lower one works in a larger chamber,therefore works in different frequencies.As an example (without actually knowing the exact frequencies)if the crossover cuts bass at say 300hz to cross-over at the midrange drivers,the lower woofer works from 20-160 hz and the upper one from 60-300hz.I am sure you know what i mean.
You can't squeeze bass out of a speaker using something like an sms-1.Yes,you can tame excessive bass but not the other way round.In plain waords,the sms-1 is just an equalizer.parametric one but still an equalizer.
Yes, that's what I was trying to say in my previous posts. To fix "holes" you need to move the speakers and / or listening position. This may excite some frequencies resulting in excessive bass, you can tame this with DSP - DSP just on the bass, not other frequencies.
How am i supposed to do that? You need a bi-amplfied system :)
How am i supposed to do that? You need a bi-amplfied system :)
Yes, that's what I do. I use Sub AMP 1 DSP from XTZ. That's why I asked about xover freq. This is a subwoofer amp that goes up to 250Hz.
Spectral Morn
30-01-2009, 12:04
Sounds like a frequency suck out in the room. This may sound a bit daft/silly but if you sit in your listening seat and rock your head slowly back and forward or if you stand up and walk towards the system does the mid range upper bass improve or get worse ?
And by the way your English is very good...Where are you from...If you don't mind me asking ?
The other comments particularly Marco's (and I am not sucking up) are good ones. Attention to detail will help make things better. But this sounds like a room issue. Pro-acs can be a bit bright but the fact you are missing mid and upper bass is leading to this brightness. Its not cables as VDH in my opinion warms a sound up usually.
Is the room regular in size ? Are there any odd features in the room bay windows ,arches leading to another room ? Irregular or regular ceiling ? Vaulted Ceilings? Is the system placed symmetrically in the room ?
Regards D S D L---Neil :)
I suppose i could try this.I have my old Musical Fidelity A-370 around but i am very skeptical about it.You see,if the limitation here is actually the room,that means the wofers allready receive a certain ammount of power to produce a certain ammount of bass.If i "equalise" the bass section of the loudspeaker,that means that the drivers will reveive excessive ammount of power.I am just doing simple maths here.If i am down 20db
on a particular frequency,to bring this frequency up to the rest of the system,i must pump in about almost 32 times the power the other drivers are getting.Hmmmmmm
Hi Neil
Thanks for my English being good.I'm from Cyprus and this might work as an advantage for everyone here.No matter what you say,i will never say to you "it all sounds like Greek to me",simply,because they won't rotfl
Actually moving around doesn't seems funny.I try that all the time.To gain that extra heft in the bass,i have my speakers close to the wall and i sit about a foot from the bookshelf behind me.If i lean forward,the excessive brightness disspears.If i stand up,the bass fills up.
Spectral Morn
30-01-2009, 12:14
Hi
I don't think this is an amp issue or power, its a room issue. Or a room speaker issue. The only way to sort it out is to try moving the speakers around and find a spot that does not give you this frequency suck out. Even moving by a few mm can make a big difference. You will need a tape measure, spirit level and paper and pen plus away of making sure all spikes are tight and do not allow the speakers to rock. Make sure everything is symmetrical and that the distance from top of speaker to ceiling is not the same as sides or back. The distances should all be different (but same on each speaker). They should also not be multiples of each other either. You could go to the Cardas web site and try setting up via the Golden ratio. ...always worth ago.
Regards D S D L---Neil :)
PS AHHHHHH try moving your chair forward a bit.
My thought exactly although i believe it is more of a room/speaker isuue.I never had such a problem with my old TDL reference standards but then again,it is a completely different design philosophy.Hmmmm perhaps my room doeasn't like one of the woofers so much high above the ground.Oh well,i will try again and reposition the loudspeakers and let'd hope it's the last one.I nearly dislocated my shoulder last time....
Spectral Morn
30-01-2009, 12:28
HI
Get someone to help you. It means you can listen while moving takes place, and then settle on best position. YESSSS !.... there is a massive difference between Pro-ac's and TDL'S.
And don't forget to try moving your listening chair back and forward a bit. also you may need a taller chair. Try putting some cushions under you when you listen and see if that helps.
Let us know how you get on. Wish I was there to come help you...but I am thousands of miles away.
regards D S D L---Neil :)
Thanks Neil !!!
What do you mean "thousand miles away" ? Dr.Who might give you a lift in his ummmmm phone both !:lolsign:
Okay guys,i'm gonna be leaving soon.I plan to annoy my neighbour with some 1812 overture again !
Spectral Morn
30-01-2009, 13:52
Sorry I should have read your post properly..
You are from Cyprus and living in the UK. Even so I am hundreds of miles away....probably. Not next door anyway. I should have picked up on the carpet...not exactly common in homes in your original neck of the woods.
We don't need help from the Doctor....Dalek technology is superior. Its just our plans that are less good or is it that we are the victims of crap stories and non existent plot lines. Russel T Davis EXTERMINATE. :lolsign:
Bring back Terrence Dicks.....
Regards D S D L----Neil :)
hahahahahaha No Neil,you've read my post correct.I am from Cyprus and living in Cyprus.
I suppose i could try this.I have my old Musical Fidelity A-370 around but i am very skeptical about it.You see,if the limitation here is actually the room,that means the wofers allready receive a certain ammount of power to produce a certain ammount of bass.If i "equalise" the bass section of the loudspeaker,that means that the drivers will reveive excessive ammount of power.I am just doing simple maths here.If i am down 20db
on a particular frequency,to bring this frequency up to the rest of the system,i must pump in about almost 32 times the power the other drivers are getting.Hmmmmmm
Even 32 times the power will not fill in a hole as frequency holes are the result of bass waves canceling each other out due to phase differences. 32 x 0 = 0....
As has been suggested moving thing around makes a big difference, you can get rid of much the cancellation you have by doing this. Then if you find that you have created a standing wave where you have too much bass, you can remove this with DSP or room tunes. Unless you have a very large room you will have 1 or 2 standing waves, it's more a matter of whether they are a problem.
You can do the moving around with simply listening to the effects or if you can get hold of a calibrated mic and s/w you can really get to deeply understand bass in your room. Given the lengths you go to with your system some room analysis equipment would be useful.
pentode10
30-01-2009, 18:19
Whilst there can be little doubt that room accoustics have a considerable effect on sound quality I don't really see how this would cause inconsistant performance providing nothing in the room has changed.
It must be some other variable like mains or RF issues.
Andy.
Or cables and/or the installation of such ;)
I agree with your observation, though.
Yiangos,
I'll come back to you later :)
Marco.
Whilst there can be little doubt that room accoustics have a considerable effect on sound quality I don't really see how this would cause inconsistant performance providing nothing in the room has changed.
It must be some other variable like mains or RF issues.
Andy.
That's where the discussions started, we seemed to stray to other factors as the thread developed.
Hi guys
Didn't "dissapear".Just took your advise to the next level:eyebrows:
I moved the loudspeakers so they now face the short wall instead of the long and still some more experiments.I will let you know of my findings when i am ready but here's an observation:I feel i have to turn the volume knob much further now than before to get the same spl.:scratch:
Primalsea
05-02-2009, 08:16
your listening position is probably in a place where the sound waves cancel out. or you have evened out any boom and peaks in the response so it just sounds quietier.
Have you read about room modes, there's some good info on the www which explains it. Worth reading especially the articles that have the nice animations.
Filterlab
05-02-2009, 12:54
...I feel i have to turn the volume knob much further now than before to get the same spl.:scratch:
That wouldn't surprise me given that you are now firing down the long side of your room. There will be a few changes that you'll note, but keep fiddling until you arrive at a satisfactory set up. :)
By the way, did you measure the sound pressure level or is it that you feel the volume is lower?
Filterlab,i did some measurements just to be sure i was getting a smoother sound.
Now,after a full day of listening,i came to realise i wasn't using actually more power but rather my system now lets me play at higher volumes without the soundstage collapsing or any hardness/brightness.Would you believe me if i tell you i used to have the loudspeakers firing straight ahead because i felt the sound was too bright but now i have them firing at an angle? Guys,i really want to thank you for motivating me to setup my system i should be.What can i say? Now it sounds absolutely wonderful although there is still a lot of work to be done:Micro-adjustments,cleaning of plugs and cables,acoustical treatments,anti-vibration feet/cones,mains problems adressing etc. I will keep you posted.Again,thank you all !!!:harp:
Ali Tait
06-02-2009, 09:45
I've noticed this with box speakers,in that some sound better toed in,some better pointing straight down the room.
Spectral Morn
06-02-2009, 10:46
Filterlab,i did some measurements just to be sure i was getting a smoother sound.
Now,after a full day of listening,i came to realise i wasn't using actually more power but rather my system now lets me play at higher volumes without the soundstage collapsing or any hardness/brightness.Would you believe me if i tell you i used to have the loudspeakers firing straight ahead because i felt the sound was too bright but now i have them firing at an angle? Guys,i really want to thank you for motivating me to setup my system i should be.What can i say? Now it sounds absolutely wonderful although there is still a lot of work to be done:Micro-adjustments,cleaning of plugs and cables,acoustical treatments,anti-vibration feet/cones,mains problems adressing etc. I will keep you posted.Again,thank you all !!!:harp:
No problem Yiangos
This is what AOS is all about, constructive help, and getting people closer to the music.
Regards D S D L---Neil :)
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