Don't always believe a word of it

[Rare Bird]

(Regarding Vintage Equipment)

How many of you people fancy buying a certain vintage thang but get put off when others come along & say ''Oi! yer don't wanna touch one of those guvnor, they rumble, pop, squeek & bang'' One man's experience maybe far from the truth.

For starters you cannot buy a 40 year old amplifier, plug it in & expect it to sound good or even work for that matter, particulaly with old British amps that arnt generally that good at looking after their internal parts, components wer'nt that fantastic back then anyway..

Same with turntables, pretty much can be improved these days without defacing the original article. I'm presently working on a turntable that gets slated to high heaven by many, i know damn well it's a very good sounding unit when correctly sorted. Don't listern to a word of it i say chaps & chapesses..

I think a good bit of advice is if your buying something this old please consider a careful rebuild before slate'in such things, this will bring out the full potential of the unit, giving you reliability in the process.

:)

[realysm42]

This goes back to the multi page epic about 'John Westlake outlining the reality to the daftees'.

You should always take your food for though with a pinch of salt, as the person's advice/opinion is probably subjective and there's a million factors that could make it irrelevant for your experience.

[bobbasrah]

This goes back to the multi page epic about 'John Westlake outlining the reality to the daftees'.

You should always take your food for though with a pinch of salt, as the person's advice/opinion is probably subjective and there's a million factors that could make it irrelevant for your experience.

Would have said rather than subjective, "based on experience" but otherwise totally agree, it remains a opinion, not necessarily a fact. :cool:
Just cranking out some music (opinion) on my transluscent (opinion) system, while rebuilding my piece of shite (opinion) turntable..... Fine by me... ;)

[Ali Tait]

Keeps the prices down!

[Beobloke]

I'm presently working on a turntable that gets slated to high heaven by many, i know damn well it's a very good sounding unit when correctly sorted.

Which one?

[Rare Bird]

Your fav :lol:

[icehockeyboy]

A mate of mine put me off 401's saying they rumbled like thunder,,,,,,,,,,

[hifi_dave]

Definitely, as do 301s and TD124s. Pile of junk.

Hopefully, posts like these will drive the prices down so that we can all afford them..:rolleyes:

[Macca]

Hopefully, posts like these will drive the prices down so that we can all afford them..:rolleyes:

Good idea

I'd just like to add that old Krell amps distort like bastards and vintage Tannoys are woolly and limp sounding and both are easily bettered by an ipod dock :D

[YNWaN]

Some would have you believe that technology has moved on enormously in the last 20 years; whilst this is true in some technological fields, it just isn't true with regard to hi-fi.

[flatpopely]

Some would have you believe that technology has moved on enormously in the last 20 years; whilst this is true in some technological fields, it just isn't true with regard to hi-fi.

I agree, Iv'e heard the NAP135s v a brand new (but run in) NAP250.2, the 250.2 was very sterlie and lacking tonal range compared to the 135s.

[Beobloke]

Your fav :lol:

Noooo!! :doh:

As it's you, though, I shall keep my thoughts to myself!

[SPS]

Rare Bird;349088I think a good bit of advice is if your buying something this old please consider a careful rebuild before slate'in such things, this will bring out the full potential of the unit, giving you reliability in the process.



wise words...

[DSJR]

I agree, Iv'e heard the NAP135s v a brand new (but run in) NAP250.2, the 250.2 was very sterlie and lacking tonal range compared to the 135s.

Sorry both, you're comparing the same old wine in different bottles..

High current transistors have become available in the 80's and 90's that simply weren't available in the 70's, let alone the quasi-complementary days of the Naim RCA circuit, and film caps of quality are now readily affordable, as are close tolerance resistors as a matter of course, which don't drift as old 5% carbon resistors can and do.

Designers have found that far better matching of these new components makes it possible to design simpler circuits af far better long term stability. An example of which is the old feed-forward type circuit I believe is used in my old Crown amps and the descendanr Current Dumping design used still by Quad. These circuits have certain critical parts in them which need very close tolerance components and these days, such complexity isn't necessary I'm told.

I'm not saying that these modern designs are all perfect, but it's amazing how old amps can be freed off with modern bits fitted here and there - look on the Net-Audio site for Quad 303 mods for example - output stage mods, current limiting mods and reducing the input sensitivity, all of which open the sound up reportedly (I did the input sensitivity one and liked what that did). These just couldn't be done with any reliability back in the day and with the preamps then available with limited output.

I agree with Andr'e though, about old stuff needing a good dose of looking at. Even the superior jap stuff from the 70's is now 40 years or so old and even their better bits woud be getting tired now, even if they've gone for years stored away unused methinks..

[YNWaN]

In some cases Individual components have improved - the way that those components are implemented has not.

A bunch of modern components does not necessarily make a good design. Despite what you would like to believe (or promote) Dave, the 250.2 is a modern amplifier and uses modern components (of the very type you describe). However, this didn't stop it from being thoroughly seen off by a much older design.

To be honest, you use this argument as it suits you. When it's about a manufacturer you want to criticise, its out with the "circuits and components have moved on" line; but when it's about a manufacturer you wish to support, you conveniently forget this argument.

[DSJR]

Same old circuit though, judging by internal pics I've seen. The distortion is still as high, but has been better arranged to favour lower order, rather than fourth order with crossover distortion like the older design 250's had...

Modern components CAN make a previously slightly compromised old design better, but the avenues to push the boundaries then exists to extend performance without a huge cost hike. I really do believe that modern cheap amps work so well, and better than available in the early 80's, not just due to cheap far eastern labour outside of Japan, but because modern internal parts allow closer tolerances and component matching without costly compensation circuits. Just my thoughts obviously... :)

[flatpopely]

Dave.

I think the 250.2 is a different design to the 135 IIRC, apart from the obvious mono block bit.......

For a real oldy I recently sold a Quad FMII, sounded really good but I just don't listen to radio enough so it had to go.

[Mr Kipling]

And that Versa Dynamics deck is a right pile a shite. . .

[YNWaN]

Yes indeed - not even worth keeping ;)