View Full Version : My new (vintage) Tannoy Cheviots!
walpurgis
01-08-2012, 23:38
Hello all,
some of you looking at "bargains on eBay" may have seen my post about the £500 Tannoy Cheviot 3128 speakers I just bought.
They were collected yesterday and I had a brief demo at the showroom. They sounded bloody marvelous! Even with sagging cone surrounds and an occasionally rubbing coil on one. These are definitely 'proper Tannoys'.
The ceramic magnet 3128 driver is also used in the Tannoy Balmoral and is a long throw, lower resonance version of the SRM/LRM 12" unit, very different to the 12" HPD driver in most Cheviots (I've owned those in the past too).
At the moment, I'm refurbishing the rather tired looking cabinets, removing paint spatters, repairing veneer chips, and restaining prior to the satin finish going on. I intend having these looking as close to new as possible.
The original grille cloths have no holes, but quite a few snags/pulls. This is easy to sort, just push them back through the fabric with needle pointed tweezers. They don't show then.
Strangely, one plinth is half an inch shorter than the other. It has been sawn down, presumably due to damage. I'll restore this to size with some hardwood cut to fit.
Two sets of cone surrounds are on order, along with various adhesives. I've bought foam roll surrounds as per original and a set of fabric double pleat surrounds as used on the SRM/LRM series drivers. I will decide which to use in due course.
The crossovers will be checked and maybe upgraded and I shall be rewiring the speakers with something decent, possibly bypassing the plug & socket into the driver.
This being the very last incarnation of the Cheviot, it conveniently sports a set of reasonable looking banana sockets instead of wire grippers. Nice, I won't have to alter that.
If I can work out how to upload some decent photos, I shall show some of the work in progress.
Geoff.
southall-1998
02-08-2012, 00:04
Should be interesting, Geoff.
Good luck.
walpurgis
02-08-2012, 09:22
Taken this morning. Just a couple of thumbnails showing the butchered plinth and one re-stained cabinet side (its the one furthest way).
(and yes, my listening room is tiny, overfilled and has too many Tannoys in)
walpurgis
02-08-2012, 09:43
Should be interesting, Geoff.
Good luck.
Thanks Shane, I'll give you a shout once they're done and you are welcome to a listen. Geoff.
southall-1998
02-08-2012, 11:06
Lovely, I'm looking forward to it.
wiicrackpot
02-08-2012, 11:19
Taken this morning. Just a couple of thumbnails showing the butchered plinth and one re-stained cabinet side (its the one furthest way)
Erm...it's not that we want to see, it's the 3128's !!!, i'm intrigued to see whats the difference to a bog standard Cheviot driver. :)
wii.
walpurgis
02-08-2012, 12:22
Erm...it's not that we want to see, it's the 3128's !!!, i'm intrigued to see whats the difference to a bog standard Cheviot driver. :)
wii.
It is a 'bog standard' Cheviot driver for this series. It was the last version of this range and to me, sounds better than the HPD315.
Unless you are determined to restore them to near original, I'd suggest lose the plinths and get a nice pair of good stands for them. I haven't done that for my own Cheviots, but did it for my Berkeleys. Be warned tough, the plinths are likely glued on as well as screwed, so take care you don't lose a strip of veneer if you decide to do it.
walpurgis
04-08-2012, 10:07
Yes, I want them looking as near original and new as possible, so I'll be retaining the plinths.
The damaged one came off without bother and is nearly restored, haven't tried removing the second yet.
I know stands can help in certain listening environments, I may make up a short, steel box section pair that fit around the outside of the plinths (could be a marketable item?).
The metal frame stand thing isn't new, but I doubt you'd make much money from it. Not enough Cheviot owners out there who would be interested I should thing (I might be the exception, but I'm more interested in completely re-housing mine eventually).
walpurgis
05-08-2012, 11:50
I think you might be surprised at how many Cheviots and Chatsworths (which the stands would also fit) survive intact and are still in use. No obvious way of telling though.
I wouldn't be surprised, but I'm not sure there's enough custom to make a reliable business model. However, if you do give it a go, sign me up.
walpurgis
06-08-2012, 09:56
Just a couple of snaps showing progress.
One of the damaged plinth, showing the rebuilt woodwork. It is now back to the correct height to match the other speaker, its just waiting for a bit more filler and paint.
You can also see in the photo that my cabinet repolishing has come along well, the veneer looks great.
The other shot is of one speaker back. I'm filling in the small cracks where the cabinet joints are. They were originally dressed with filler by Tannoy during manufacture, but movement and jarring over the years have disturbed it. This happens with all HPD type cabinets.
The black finish on the plinths and backs has a slightly stippled textured paint. To reproduce this look I'm sponge dabbing on tile grout mixed with PVA glue and then sealing it with wood hardener prior to respraying with satin black acrylic.
I think I've found a suitable treatment for reproducing the original clear 'tacky' coating on the cone surrounds. I'll reveal what it is after experimenting.
A couple of non standard items are on order: rectangular glide feet for the plinths (I'm not using spikes or stands at the moment and these look like a reasonable option). Also I've had a couple of "3128" badges made up in black. I may glue these to the front of the plinths, just to indicate the model.
Still waiting for cone surrounds and adhesives, Coming from China and USA!
sq225917
06-08-2012, 13:35
Satin black paint, put on with a short haired roller, then do another coat just before it goes off, it's the same finish on the back of the ES14's.
walpurgis
06-08-2012, 18:39
Ah, but I'm not using oil based satin finish. Aerosol acrylic for me, I've used it many times and it gives the finish I want. Its quick and easy too.
Full size photos of renovation due when progress is in full swing.
walpurgis
08-08-2012, 21:15
Double roll fabric surrounds are standard on the 12" Tannoy SRM and LRM monitors, they also seem to be provided as standard replacements for 10" & 12" Tannoys by Lockwood Audio. I'm not keen on castors. I had Chatsworths, nice speaker, did you know there were four different versions?
walpurgis
08-08-2012, 21:55
I believe I have my facts straight. The first Chatsworth used the 12" Monitor Red, followed by the monitor gold with corrugated integral cone surround, then the Monitor Gold with rubber roll surround (I have seen Chatsworths with foam roll surrounds too) and for a brief period, prior to the Cheviot being released, the HPD315 was employed.
These double roll fabric surrounds are quite thin and more flexible than the Tannoy SRM type and their pliablity and potential extension look to be similar to the original roll surround. I shall reverse dope them to include temination damping.
wiicrackpot
08-08-2012, 22:11
Thank you, i'll think about surgery sometime in the future, i am the 3rd owner of these and 2nd owner told he and the original owner never opened her up before,
he also told me they were Gold's and i took his word for it. :o
walpurgis
08-08-2012, 22:17
Problems with the Monitor Gold surrounds are rare unless you have the foam examples which are not common.
Lockwood will recone HPDs with "hard edge" roll surrounds, or original foam. It's a full recone though - I don't think they do just the surround anymore. There are significant sonic differneces between "hard edge" and foam. The former is apparently closer to (but not exactly) Golds.
walpurgis
16-08-2012, 19:25
The damaged plinth is now repaired and refinished in a slightly stippled satin black to match the original finish and I found the type of hard feet I wanted. The other plinth will be redone to match.
http://i48.tinypic.com/u3dd2.jpg
As can be seen, the front is different to the HPD equiped Cheviots. Note the sagging surround. Both are like this.
http://i49.tinypic.com/2rzx7wp.jpg
Here's the removed driver. You can see the Girdacoustic radial bracing ribs are glued over the surround and right up to the back of the cone's edge. That'll be fun to detatch and refix!
http://i48.tinypic.com/242y92a.jpg
Next job is removing the cone and fitting the new surround.
More photos soon.
Geoff.
Hi, FWIW the LRM had pleated doped fabric surrounds but more importantly a much lighter girder free cone,http://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy40.htm another thing to bear in mind is that Tannoy 15's and 12's are under size ie if fitting a standard 12" surround it will be too big.
Regards
Frank
walpurgis
17-08-2012, 09:05
Yes, I know there are options, but I've heard these working and they sound really superb with no sign of the wooden midrange that can afflict the Girdacoustic HPDs, so I want to stick with these nicely broken in cones if I can. Hopefully the voicecoils and formers are not distorted.
The 12" cones actually seem to be larger than most of the surrounds I've seen, but I've found some that fit perfectly.
I was referring to the fact that spider,cone and surround work together.
Dropping a tannoplas surround on them should return them to 3128 K-series T&S spec, dropping an unknown double roll surround in all probability won't.
walpurgis
17-08-2012, 11:52
A double roll fabric surround is used on this cone in other models very successfully. The one I'm using is more pliant the the Tannoy version and should allow a resonance around that of the Tanoplas original. I will dope the reverse of the surround to try and match the termination damping too. I'm not that concerned by the non-originality. I'm sure it will all work fine.
A double roll fabric surround is used on this cone in other models very successfully. The one I'm using is more pliant the the Tannoy version and should allow a resonance around that of the Tanoplas original. I will dope the reverse of the surround to try and match the termination damping too. I'm not that concerned by the non-originality. I'm sure it will all work fine.
I see you are a Tannoy fan ;-).
I've owned and used, serviced, reconed, refoamed and rebuilt, DC's in almost every iteration over the past 40 years and yep hard edge is the latest DC cone termination, nickyp442 on eBay says he has the original hard edge surrounds if you are interested.
Hi Frank,
Good to see you, matey. You need to pop in here more often and leave Serge (and that lot) to it on pfm! ;)
Marco.
Hi Frank,
Good to see you, matey. You need to pop in here more often and leave Serge (and that lot) to it on pfm! ;)
Marco.
Ho ho will do!
Frank
walpurgis
17-08-2012, 20:20
I see you are a Tannoy fan ;-).
I've owned and used, serviced, reconed, refoamed and rebuilt, DC's in almost every iteration over the past 40 years and yep hard edge is the latest DC cone termination, nickyp442 on eBay says he has the original hard edge surrounds if you are interested.
No, the harder surrounds are not for me. The surrounds I've got should do nicely. This is my first Tannoy rebuild but I've done many other drive unit overhauls and repairs. KEF B139 surrounds are fun to replace!
walpurgis
19-08-2012, 21:41
Today,
the connector and rear spider bolts are now removed and the tweeter wires unsoldered. Don't ever try to screw the bolts back in their holes for safekeeping because if you drop a washer it may go into the coil gap and you'll never get it out!
http://i48.tinypic.com/3166a76.jpg
The point of no return. Cutting through the old surround with a scalpel. Make sure the rear spider is completely free before withdrawing the cone.
http://i48.tinypic.com/2yy8ntk.jpg
Corrosion in the horn mouth. I'll have to find a way of removing it without contaminating the tweeter or getting metal particles on the magnetic surfaces.
http://i47.tinypic.com/e0tgz.jpg
Scraping off the sticky goo remains of the old surround.
http://i46.tinypic.com/ma8ahj.jpg
Having freed the ends of the cone braces, I'm removing the trapped remnants of the surrounds from under the strut ends with needle nosed tweezers.
http://i46.tinypic.com/33ju4j6.jpg
A clean cone, ready for the new surround!
http://i49.tinypic.com/2jevbcg.jpg
The new surround popped loosely in place prior to gluing. Its a perfect fit.
http://i49.tinypic.com/x43axt.jpg
You need new pepperpots guv'nor I reckon. Apparently this was one reason why the treble went even more spiky in the mid 70's than it already was. It was also discovered in the 1980 era revamps that the gauze over the tweeter horn was un-necessary, but it's so fine I wonder if it was there to disguise the shabby pepperpot castings. Whatever, I'd check with Lockwoods at some point although you've probably re-assembled everything now..
By the way, a Lockwood refurb entails the whole moving part from surround to new aluminium voice coil, hence the cost. They claim the performance is far better than new.. I'm sure that if you've heard other drivers with the slight alteration you're making and they're good to you, then all should be fine. Crossovers next :)
walpurgis
19-08-2012, 22:25
No Dave, I'll sort it myself. It should clean up if done right and I'll give it a wipe of fine clear laquer. I doubt if there's any in front of the tweeter diaphragm or on the sides where the coil and former go over the horn/pole piece, I can't see any using a bright torch. The tweeters sounded very sweet when I demoed these, so I'm not expecting problems. The gauze will be left as is.
I'm aware of Lockwood's services. They're only up the road from me. They reconed my mate's Chevenings with LRM10 cone assemblies. It was a nice job actually.
Geoff.
Sorry geoff, I meant the holes in the tweeter waveguide. PLEASE make sure the holes in the casting are even all the way round and properly profiled, as they look a bit rough from the angle of the shot you've provided.
I do envy those who take their own drive units to bits this way. Tannoys look to have been built with this in mind. My Spendor BC2 bass units apparently have an audible reflection between the larger diameter (compared to BC1) voice-coil centre dust covers and the pole piece and it's been suggested by a key chap at Spendor that I remove these dust-caps as done in the SP1 driver which was loosely based on the BC2/SA2/Prelude driver and fit a "phase plug" as Spendor now do I think. The doping on my bextrene cones is in pristine condition still and I'm absolutely terrified of tearing it in a botched attempt at removing the dust-caps..
walpurgis
19-08-2012, 23:41
The waveguide on Tannoys circa 1980 was not as well machined as earlier examples, but this does not seem to affect the sound.
Leave your Spendor cones well alone Dave! What happens to older Plasticote treated cones is that the slightest disturbance will cause the coating to lift and continue peeling. If you try to remove the dust caps you'll pull off the coating too.
The biggest problems the BC2 and BC1 had were the Bextrene cone 'squawk' (which KEF and B&W also had). On the Spendors it was not quite so evident though, its a colouration your ears adjust to anyway. And, there's a bit of port 'chuffing' at the bottom end at high volumes. I won't comment much on the awful Coles/STC/ITT super tweeter (it really is horrible sounding), other than to say, Rogers went to the wonderful Celestion HF2000 instead on their Export Monitor which was a closely similar design. Fortunately the super tweeter on the Spendors does not cover much of the audible spectrum.
Geoff.
walpurgis
20-08-2012, 11:03
This morning,
masked off the tweeter to prevent crap going in!
http://i45.tinypic.com/e6vamr.jpg
Slicing through adhesive and old surround under the rubber trim on the inner flange face.
http://i50.tinypic.com/anio2b.jpg
One trim ring in perfect condition. It'll clean up well enough to re-use and now I've got to clean the speaker chassis inner flange face to accept the new surround.
http://i49.tinypic.com/k5fya.jpg
I'm having a rethink on the surrounds. The mounting face on the speaker chassis is wider than anticipated and although the outer roll on the new fabric surround just clears, I don't want to risk the surround making contact during large extensions when driven. So, it looks like the poly/foam single roll surrounds may be used after all.
More later.
Geoff.
walpurgis
24-08-2012, 09:15
Latest.
One cone fitted with new surround. properly bonded under the bracing ribs which are now also re-bonded at their termination. No, the surround is not the wrong way round, its just the effect of the lighting.
The speaker chassis needs a bit more cleaning up, then the cone goes back in later today.
http://i45.tinypic.com/34qjwu9.jpg
Dealing with the minor surface corrosion in the horn throat. Magnet gap masked and mouth of pepperpot wave guide covered with a dollop of bluetack.
http://i47.tinypic.com/34glwsy.jpg
The corrosion now gone. I rubbed it off with very fine emery paper and then wiped on acrylic laquer to seal the surface against recurrence. The corrosion left minor discolouration which is of no significance.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2lto5jk.jpg
Note: never use wire wool, wire brushes or anything made of steel near speaker magnets. Any loose bits will contaminate the coil gap, etc.
More later.
walpurgis
28-10-2012, 23:42
Back on track at last.
After many weeks of delay and misfortune, two pairs of surrounds that didn't fit properly and waiting for suitable surrounds to come from Australia and then stripping off dodgy surrounds and starting to fit good ones, I'm back in action.
Below, new surround bonded to cone and cone spider centralised, blobs of blu-tak used to check that the cone will move freely and concentrically before glueing the outer edges of the surround into the speaker chassis, because once that's done there's no going back.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2i0bqww.jpg
Next photo, the cone now fixed in place, with the circular edge trim fitted and the cone is moving nice and freely. With a bright torch I can see that the coil former is properly concentric to the horn/pole piece, no wedges were used. This driver is basically finished.
http://i46.tinypic.com/5uo2gh.jpg
Now to start on the other one!
walpurgis
30-10-2012, 21:46
Refurbished driver now installed back into cabinet. I've tried it out and it sounds very good. I'll be able to comment in depth when both speakers are finished.
http://i48.tinypic.com/2cwrbs7.jpg
Grille in place after spending a couple of hours pushing 'pulls' back through the fabric with needle nosed tweezers, the previous owner must have had a cat. A few grubby marks were cleaned off the material with a damp cloth.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2podqvd.jpg
realysm42
30-10-2012, 22:05
Good work; how long has it taken in total?
walpurgis
30-10-2012, 23:41
Good work; how long has it taken in total?
You'll laugh Martin, I started in July, but had repeated problems with inadequate cone surrounds. Then I was on holiday for a while. When I got back I ordered good surrounds from Australia and they took nearly a month to get here. By this time I was getting a bit fed up and waited a few weeks to get cracking again, however all's going well now.
Another driver to overhaul and a bit of cabinet finishing to do. Once that's out of the way I may experiment with internal wiring and crossover components. Although to be honest when I bought these, I had a long demo (with knackered surrounds) and they sounded absolutely marvellous, so I don't think they are likely to need much enhancement and have to say the 3128 dual concentric drivers make these by far the best Cheviots I've heard, far smoother and cleaner than any HPD 315 I've owned and better even than my old 12" Monitor Gold Chatsworths.
Here's a shot of the unit I have to strip down tomorrow. It doesn't show you much, but the surround is truly stuffed!
http://i47.tinypic.com/4j55za.jpg
walpurgis
31-10-2012, 10:00
Started on driver two this morning.
After insoldering the tweeter connection and unbolting the connector block and the rear cone spider. The point of no return arrives again, slicing the old surround so the cone can come out.
http://i47.tinypic.com/1fk9y9.jpg
The loose cone!
http://i46.tinypic.com/2dmflok.jpg
Now I've got to spend a few patient hours stripping off the gooey remains of the old surround which even extends under the ends of the Girdacoustic cone bracing ribs.
walpurgis
31-10-2012, 22:47
As you can see, the remains of the old cone surround are just a sticky mess!
http://i48.tinypic.com/illqtx.jpg
walpurgis
01-11-2012, 22:36
Finally got the second cone clean, it took literally hours to scrape the surround remains off. No wonder Lockwood only do whole cone replacements these days.
Sorry about the photo quality, must have forgotten the camera's 'macro' setting!
http://i46.tinypic.com/9bd3m1.jpg
I've put the new surround in place, looks good, properly tucked under the bracing rib ends prior to gluing. That's the next job, I'll first bond the surround to the rib ends, that way its fixed in the correct postion for the rest of the gluing. Its how I did the first one and that was fine. I'm using 'Aleene's Original Tacky Glue', as many do. I apply it with a small art brush with the bristles cut down a bit.
http://i46.tinypic.com/6rsow5.jpg
And yes the surround is the right way up, its just the flash makes look wrong.
Later:
http://i46.tinypic.com/2911dtt.jpg
Surround glued to Girdacoustic rib ends, it'll have to dry overnight!
I've kept the cone face down as that pushes the surround upwards onto the ribs ensuring contact is maintained while it dries.
By the way, once its been drying for about an hour, turn the cone over and check that the crease on the surround lines up exactly with the cone edge, pull it into place if need be as the glue will still have movement in it, then press into place firmly.
The Black Adder
02-11-2012, 07:48
Great work man... Hope you get em kicking out the jams soon.
sq225917
02-11-2012, 09:55
I do love a good clean-up.
walpurgis
03-11-2012, 13:12
At last, the bonding of the new cone surround for the second driver is finished.
http://i46.tinypic.com/dh99x.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/vinn0h.jpg
I've just cleaned a bit of minor surface corrosion off the inside of the tweeter horn throat and wiped the surface with clear acrylic laquer to prevent recurrence, just as I had to with the first driver (photos were shown previously).
The repaired cone will be refitted later today and I'll describe the process and perhaps add more photos. With a bit of luck I may have both speakers up and running this evening.
(By the way that smear of glue on the right side is not from clumsy work on my part. Its residue from the original manufacturers gluing, I left it on as it does no harm and I did not want to scrape at the cone material.)
Very prompt looking work. Well done!
walpurgis
03-11-2012, 19:28
Just about to do another hour or two on the Cheviots. I'm mulling over a few ideas for using a dope coating on the foam surrounds, to give them that authentic Tannoy 'tacky' look.
Any sensible suggestions would be welcome.
walpurgis
03-11-2012, 21:01
Re-locating the rear cone spider and inserting screws.
There is about 1.5mm movement from side to side due to the slightly oversize screw holes. Move the spider from side to side until you feel it is approximately central, then finger tighten the screws, you can fine adjust later.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2r7llx0.jpg
As shown below, you can shine a torch through the mesh cap and see whether the coil former has an even gap around the pole piece/horn (picture's not that clear I know).
http://i45.tinypic.com/ma83n7.jpg
Note the tweeter wire goes into the recess behind the connector block. Don't overtighten the screw as the plastic may split.
http://i45.tinypic.com/1zpmmue.jpg
Glue the surround in four smallish places to start with using a good contact adhesive as it needs to grip fast due to the surround tension pulling. Gluing in four spots like this makes it far easier to bond the remaining surround as you won't have to pull it in place all the time.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2ahxz4m.jpg
Blutak blobs used to keep the glued surfaces apart until they are dry enough to push together.
http://i49.tinypic.com/25gfhbc.jpg
walpurgis
04-11-2012, 12:35
This morning (Sunday).
Previously, using contact adhesive, I'd bonded the surround in four small areas to get the correct alignment. Now the rest of the surround can be glued in place. The blu-tak and cocktail sticks are keeping the two glued surfaces apart until they are dry enough to press together.
http://i46.tinypic.com/1zcluol.jpg
The surround is now bonded in place and the cone moves back and forth freely (after a slight re-tweek of the rear spider).
http://i47.tinypic.com/2dselqs.jpg
Next jobs: clean up the circular trim strip and refix, reconnect the tweeter and mount the driver back in the cabinet and test it.
In case anybody is wondering, the camera I'm using is my ancient FujiFilm Finepix S5000, set on a mere 1mp to keep the file sizes down.
walpurgis
04-11-2012, 14:42
Done!
The refurbished second driver is now installed back in it's cabinet.
http://i45.tinypic.com/352i3dg.jpg
I've got the pair up and running right now and they sound sensational, very sweet and smooth, much better than many of the 'pepperpot' types I've had in the past. Not a hint of the stringyness at the top end that seems to afflict some Tannoys, my Devons were awful! These have that beautifully clear, proper 'Big Tannoy' sound, if you know what I mean and not a hint of boom either in my small listening room.
Its nice to own one of the rarest Tannoy models ever made, this 3128 variant of the Cheviot was apparently only in production a few months and very few were sold, the bulk of the 3128 drivers being fitted into the Balmoral, which itself is rare as I believe most were exported.
I've still got some cabinet refinishing to do and the internal wiring does not look too clever, so I'll need to sort that. It will have to wait, I want to enjoy these for a couple of days before I do more work on them.
Good work.
The ones i had worked very well in a small room.
walpurgis
04-11-2012, 17:16
I've been listening to the 3128 Cheviots for a couple of hours on and off now. My god they sound good, very clean, really tight punchy bass, tremendous detail and amazing midrange clarity, you can really hear deep into the music. I've had a few pairs of bigger Tannoys, but these are definitely the best so far! Even my beautiful old Monitor Gold Chatsworths would not have matched these. They also seem more efficient, I'm hardly putting any power through them and they're shaking the whole house.
southall-1998
04-11-2012, 19:32
Post up a pic of them with your system.
walpurgis
04-11-2012, 19:51
Hi Shane,
I'll post a system picture including the speakers when I've had a sort out (I'll have to dig out a camera with a wide angle lens for that). All the work on the speakers is being done in my small listening room and its like a bomb site at the moment and I'm short of space as you know. I still have a bit more cosmetic & wiring work to do on them anyway before I finally position them properly. I'll also have to do some comparisons and figure out which set of amplification suits them best, probably the EL34 monoblocks I reckon. I'm using them with the SM-70 Pro at the moment, which works very well, bags of punch.
Geoff.
I wonder what it was/is, but the mid 70's Tannoys (all of them up to the Berkley at least) all had this "sting" in the high treble (measured at 9kHz in the controversial 1976 'Choice speaker book). I really am glad you've got it sorted though.
I still have a soft spot for Devons though and it may just be the driver tolerances used at the time that caused the issues you had with them. Cheviots always sounded coloued (a boxy "mehhh" kind of sound) in the shop, yet a couple of separate pairs I heard in clients homes, both with Quad amps IIRC, sounded really really good - and since these particular ones were bought and probably designed for domestic use....... The pro version was the SRM12X, wasn't it?
walpurgis
04-11-2012, 20:40
Hi Dave,
I've long suspected the treble bite that some Tannoys have (HPD 315 & IIILZ in particular) may be due to a resonance across the narrow part of the tweeter horn throat, immediately in front of the 'pepperpot' drillings. The horn throat is longer on the alnico magnet drivers and the sides of the horn throat at that point are almost parallel and could possibly be encouraging resonance across the width.
Yes it is a close relative of the SRM12X, but I believe the quoted power handling for the SRM may have been higher. The Balmoral was the Prestige equivalent of the 3128 Cheviot and acoustically and electrically is more or less identical.
This is by the way, the first pair of ceramic magnet 'pepperpot' Tannoys I've owned, I've had nine pairs of the alnico types though (still got my Eatons, very sweet speakers).
Geoff.
Very nice work Geoff. They look, and i'm sure they sound, superb. The Tannoy 'sting' seems to affect most of the Tannoy dc drivers, from what i have read, even the pepperpot models. My Turnberry's are the only Tannoy dc's i have heard, and i also heard the Tannoy 'sting' on mine, but you can tune out the 'sting' by pointing the speakers down the room, instead of pointing them inwards facing the listening position.
After all the faff with me about the Turnberry's (I hope "we've" made it up now :)), may I say that I didn't find the Turnberry SE treble an issue at all and the whole balance of the Turnberry SE's as I heard them was actually quite mellow as I remember. NONE of the uncouth quacky and stingy sound of dave's bog standard IIILZ's for example, the rear panels of which vibrated alarmingly on bassy notes at modelst levels.
Tannoy worked extremely hard on the crossovers of the larger DC drivers back in the early 80's and I really think it's worth Googling up a few sites to find out what they've done, as they were aware of things needing to be done and it seems, dealt with it rather well from what I've read and heard.
walpurgis
04-11-2012, 21:51
Your Turnburys have tulip waveguide type drivers Andrew and although you may find them possibly a bit forward, they do not have the bite that the pepperpot types are known for, which I'm sure is due to a resonance in the horn itself.
I recently sold a pair of Tannoy System 1000 speakers which have the same tweeter as the Turnbury and found them pretty well controlled at the top end.
Dave's comments on the IIILZ parallel my views, I owned three pairs back when they were cheap (£66 a pair new in 1971). A cheap intro into the Tannoy experience, but they were pretty unrefined. Beats me why they go for such silly money these days.
And thanks for the positive comment. I still have a way to go yet.
After all the faff with me about the Turnberry's (I hope "we've" made it up now :)), may I say that I didn't find the Turnberry SE treble an issue at all and the whole balance of the Turnberry SE's as I heard them was actually quite mellow as I remember. NONE of the uncouth quacky and stingy sound of dave's bog standard IIILZ's for example, the rear panels of which vibrated alarmingly on bassy notes at modelst levels.
Tannoy worked extremely hard on the crossovers of the larger DC drivers back in the early 80's and I really think it's worth Googling up a few sites to find out what they've done, as they were aware of things needing to be done and it seems, dealt with it rather well from what I've read and heard.
I'd just like to say Dave that i found that other 'Tannoy' thread very entertaining to say the least! I don't find the Turnberry treble an issue neither, maybe 'sting' is too strong a word for it, maybe more of a 'slight colouration' would be nearer the mark. I haven't heard any other Tannoys so can't comment, but i love the overall balance of my turnberry's, but i can still hear that very 'slight colouration', but it's overall balance, superb imaging and bass, means the Turnberry's will be gracing my lounge for a long time.
Your Turnburys have tulip waveguide type drivers Andrew and although you may find them possibly a bit forward, they do not have the bite that the pepperpot types are known for, which I'm sure is due to a resonance in the horn itself.
I recently sold a pair of Tannoy System 1000 speakers which have the same tweeter as the Turnbury and found them pretty well controlled at the top end.
Dave's comments on the IIILZ parallel my views, I owned three pairs back when they were cheap (£66 a pair new in 1971). A cheap intro into the Tannoy experience, but they were pretty unrefined. Beats me why they go for such silly money these days.
And thanks for the positive comment. I still have a way to go yet.
My previous speakers, Kef ref 2.2 were silky smooth in comparison to the turnberry's, but they didn't have the lovely bass quality that i enjoy from my Turnberry's, or the superb imaging, although the Kef's were excellent with a stereo image, the Turnberry's are on another level, imo.
Keep up the good work geoff, and keep us posted!
walpurgis
05-11-2012, 00:52
I'm a bit tied up over the next few days, but when I get the opportunity I shall as mentioned do a bit of rewiring and run a meter over the crossover components, I may upgrade some. I'll clean the level and roll off controls too.
The cabinets are about 90% there, but need a bit of final finishing, they looked horrible when I got them, covered in paint spatters and little dings, mostly sorted now. The backs need re-doing in satin black as per original and the grilles need a look at. The worst is done though.
I owned Turnberry HE's for years and have to say that they are bit mellow and so not have the sting or the bite that some other DC models have e.g my Tannoy Dovers with the 10" DC 2558 drivers. Much more sophisticated thou but not so involving me thinks..
walpurgis
05-11-2012, 21:00
How are you finding the Dovers Mika. I remember thinking how nice they looked in the pictures. That should be a good drive unit.
walpurgis
06-11-2012, 19:28
Just taken the plinth off the second Cheviot, a right old job. Some numpty had burred out four of the six 'posidrive' screw heads and one had definitely been hammered in.
Took the heads off the damaged screws with a drill, starting with small bits and going larger until the heads fell off, then after prizing the plinth gently off, turning out the screw shanks with a mole grip.
http://i46.tinypic.com/2igixja.jpg
It looks a mess, but isn't as bad as the first one was. I'll have it restored and refitted in a day or so.
southall-1998
06-11-2012, 20:16
Reminds me of my worn out Nike trainers ;)
How are you finding the Dovers Mika. I remember thinking how nice they looked in the pictures. That should be a good drive unit.
The Dovers are pretty nice speakers - they a re working really well despite being bit too small for the room I'm having. Have listened them quite a lot at nearfield approx. 1m distance and they do have some magical qualities that did not find from Turnberrys.
Don't know yet are there keepers for a long period of time, so that remains to be seen.. :)
walpurgis
06-11-2012, 20:42
The Dovers are pretty nice speakers - they a re working really well despite being bit too small for the room I'm having. Have listened them quite a lot at nearfield approx. 1m distance and they do have some magical qualities that did not find from Turnberrys.
Don't know yet are there keepers for a long period of time, so that remains to be seen.. :)
The "magical" qualities are provided by the compression driver 'pepperpot' tweeter. In the midrange it lets you hear very deep into the recording and of course the imaging will be spot on, you hear every little thing that's going on and they show ambience so well. I don't know any other speaker that quite does this the way Tannoys do.
Just put the drive units into the Turnbury cabinets and you'll have it sorted (joking).
Luckily haven't had Turnberrys at my possession for few years now. If would might be tempted to give it a try.. :D
walpurgis
06-11-2012, 22:24
Luckily haven't had Turnberrys at my possession for few years now. If would might be tempted to give it a try.. :D
The 10" Tannoys respond very well to larger cabinets, years ago I put a brand new (old stock) pair of IIILZ drivers into homebuilt, ported, Lancaster sized cabinets and it was a huge improvement. I'm still tempted to build a pair of large transmission line cabinets for my HPD295A units.
walpurgis
08-11-2012, 22:51
Today,
the second plinth now refurbished. Looks good with its satin black finish, as per original. I just need to put the feet on and the it can be refitted to the cabinet.
http://i48.tinypic.com/2ebfne8.jpg
Sorting the cabinet backs. The joints have become apparent and have split the painted finish due to movement, it happens on all this series of Tannoy cabinets. I've filled where necessary and gone over all filled and rubbed down areas with wood hardener to stabilise the surface prior to painting, this is a good dodge and works well.
http://i45.tinypic.com/21likch.jpg
Yes, that is my dog's nose you can see. Bet none of you have seen Cheviots with banana sockets as standard before.
Lovely work Geoff. You're working magic on those Tannoys and can't wait to see the finished articles. Will you stick with the current cross-overs?
Must admit having heard quite a few DC's recently, from the vintage 15inch MGs to the 10 inch prestige series, the only ones that I noticed the treble "sting" on were some older MGs (original crossovers) and the first (HE series) Turnberrys. Its there, just noticeable on the SE models and even on the pepperpot driver'd Kensington, but it is more subtle (a few dB ?) than on some of the older ones and with the right amps, it's tamed to virtually non-existent on the SE's (well, again audible but really only as a slight muddying of upper mid detail rather than any pronounced honk). This seems to be true for higher volumes so Tannoy do seem to have sorted the issue out at long last. (At least, sorted it to acceptable levels).
walpurgis
09-11-2012, 16:38
Hi Paul,
the plan is to stick with the current crossover configuration and as mentioned I'll check component values and maybe upgrade components here and there.
There's also a bit of internal wiring and connection work to sort out. Must remove any push on spades for a start and solder joint wherever practicable. I'll use some switch cleaner on the 'level' and 'roll off' control contacts.
(a note: always test switch cleaner on a small area of any plastic it may come into contact with, as some switch cleaners dissolve certain plastics, as I've found out. I managed to dissolve the iris leaves on a nice Zeiss camera lens I was cleaning years ago. You live & learn.)
There's certainly no muddying anywhere through the midrange on these, they seem very lucid, without the stringy shrillness that can afflict some Tannoy DCs.
walpurgis
09-11-2012, 19:30
Right, that's the cabinet backs refinished in slightly stippled satin black, looks very nice.
http://i47.tinypic.com/14mssk.jpg
Not the greatest photo I've taken, I admit.
spendorman
09-11-2012, 21:12
Very nice work, I have my Devon's need similar treatment, + one cabinet is coming apart all along one joint. To my ears the Devon's were greatly improved by adding a bit more wadding inside the cabinets.
walpurgis
09-11-2012, 21:24
Hi Alex,
why not go for a refurb along the lines of what I'm doing? Its a bit time consuming but not difficult, just requires a little patience.
Geoff.
spendorman
09-11-2012, 21:30
Hi Alex,
why not go for a refurb along the lines of what I'm doing? Its a bit time consuming but not difficult, just requires a little patience.
Geoff.
I am going to do that, have got sash clamps ready, but I wanted to get see if I could get the sound right first in those cabinets. If sound was not right, I have some larger vintage corner Chatsworth cabinets that I would have put the HPD315's in.
I also have just a few other speakers.
walpurgis
09-11-2012, 21:38
Do it for goodness sake, the corner Chatsworth is a nice cabinet, it may just need a bit of extra bracing inside. The bigger cabinets allow the 12" driver proper 'breathing space'. Bear in mind, your Devons should be used on stands anyway, so really your not using up any more room space by using the floor standing cabinets.
spendorman
09-11-2012, 21:43
Do it for goodness sake. The bigger cabinets allow the 12" driver proper 'breathing space'. Bear in mind, your Devons should be used on stands anyway, so really your not using up any more room space by using the floor standing cabinets.
lol, in fact, the extra wadding inside has worked well, and I was hoping to get some 12" Silvers for the corner enclosures. I don't think that will happen though!
I have two pairs of ESL 57's and a pair of 63's that I have not looked at in over 20 years, and plenty more. The 57's I rebuilt well over 20 years ago.
walpurgis
09-11-2012, 23:03
Plenty of speakers then.
I've got three pairs of Tannoy DCs and enough various drive units to build about five or six pairs of other speakers (and a couple of TTs to rebuild). Keeps me occupied.
walpurgis
11-11-2012, 22:33
After a bit of experimentation on a spare surround, I've found the best way (for me) to dope the new foam cone surrounds. Not surprisingly, it turns out the 'Alene's Tacky Glue' that I used to bond the surrounds to the cones gives the best results.
Here's one surround with the doping just applied, it looks a mess, but it'll be fine:
http://i50.tinypic.com/suv6vs.jpg
Same speaker with the surround nearly dry, it looks just right and has only slight tackiness. A near perfect match to the appearance of the original Tannoy surrounds:
http://i50.tinypic.com/w8n91g.jpg
walpurgis
12-11-2012, 21:39
The second plinth now reconditioned, new feet installed and refitted onto the cabinet after giving the veneer on the base a final finish and wax.
http://i46.tinypic.com/p520g.jpg
walpurgis
13-11-2012, 22:38
Todays jobs:
Just stained the second to last cabinet side. looks good.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2ntfoeb.jpg
The surround on the second driver with freshly applied dope coating.
http://i45.tinypic.com/294p0lc.jpg
The surround doping nearly dried.
http://i50.tinypic.com/33xyg5u.jpg
Inside the cabinet. Horrible push on spade connectors serving the rear connection terminals, one of which was split and making poor contact (no doubt there are more serving the crossover and level/roll off controls, I'll look at them in due course).
http://i50.tinypic.com/2q3w421.jpg
I found some speaker connection posts with suitable looking gold plated tags.
http://i46.tinypic.com/aahna0.jpg
The old spade tag alongside the gold plated replacement.
http://i46.tinypic.com/15gfcj5.jpg
The new tags soldered on using silver solder and smartened with a bit of heat shrink sleeve.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2rpspe1.jpg
Job done!
http://i45.tinypic.com/bg8dwi.jpg
I've refitted the drive unit. I'll look into replacing all the internal wiring at some point, at least I'll have something decent to solder it to. One more cabinet panel and the veneered front edges to refinish, a clean, polish and a tweek here and there inside and basically, they're restored, anything further will be upgrade work
walpurgis
14-11-2012, 23:57
I've finished my Tannoy Cheviot 3128 speaker restoration.
I'll post some pictures of the final result once I've got my 'den' tidied.
I'm listening to some Shpongle though them right this minute and they sound bloody marvelous.
walpurgis
19-11-2012, 11:58
Here's a picture of the final result.
http://i48.tinypic.com/97tpnk.jpg
They look so much better than when I first got them and sound every bit as good as I'd hoped they would. I've had several pairs of 12" Tannoy dual concentrics, but these are by far the best sounding.
Rare Bird
19-11-2012, 12:04
Nice job geoff, whats that then 4 months! taken me that long to think about doing summat :D
The Tannoy 'Dorset' (T185) & 'Mayfair' (T225) are my fav's tho
realysm42
19-11-2012, 13:07
They look great, well done; bet they sound good too!
Nice work.
Always good to see a lovely vintage item brought back to life and enjoyed.
I have a real soft spot for old tannoys.
Rare Bird
19-11-2012, 13:54
It is nice to see old items restored, glad they were kept original.
What get's up my back is people axing old pieces up for pointess modifications..If your gonna mess about with old pieces chaps make sure they are 100% reversable mods, you wouldnt like it if someone chopped your big toe off & grafted it on the end of your willy would yee! :eyebrows:
southall-1998
19-11-2012, 14:33
Very nice Geoff. Enjoy!!!
walpurgis
19-11-2012, 15:56
Thanks for the encouraging comments guys.
They sound superb, my best mate was over on Friday and he's a Tannoy/valves guy and he was bowled over by these.
Now I need another project. How about this:
http://i45.tinypic.com/1y24jc.jpg
Pioneer PL-61, top of the range circa 1971. It's the model with the huge Hall Effect motor and belt drive, needs a full refurb/service and I think the arm may be too far gone to retrieve, bearing problems and duff bias (belt?). I just happen to have a coulple of spare Mission 774s (Bicht design) knocking about, so may go that route.
Geoff.
walpurgis
19-11-2012, 16:06
Nice job geoff, whats that then 4 months! taken me that long to think about doing summat :D
The Tannoy 'Dorset' (T185) & 'Mayfair' (T225) are my fav's tho
Andre,
why favour the plastic coned versions? They do have the proper Tannoy sound, but have some rather odd midrange colourations, although these are pretty good if they're fitted with the pulp 10" SRM/LRM type cone. Nice tweeter though, same unit as my 3128s if I'm not mistaken.
How's the GL70 going by the way, done anything with it?
Geoff.
Rare Bird
19-11-2012, 16:56
Hi Geoff
Probably because i did not like Tannoys at all before these models came out..I lived with 'Mayfairs' & Quad '405' for quite sometime so must have liked them..However those aside i am a paper cone fan at heart & love the speakers i use now, so no desire to change tbh.
I think for once in my life i'm getting my act together & will be satisfied before long..The icing on the cake maybe a Croft Phonostage to use with the Ferrograph amp. I'm thinking about clearing out the turntable No.2: ceramic input making it line level to use with the phonostage, i can then do an A/B comparison between the turntable No.1: Magnetic input & the new stage :)
Vinylgrinder's coming on, but im using the 'GL75' at the mo till i finish the 'GL70'..
Here's a picture of the final result.
http://i48.tinypic.com/97tpnk.jpg
Nice work, Geoff! :clap: :respect:
Probably because i did not like Tannoys at all before these models came out..I lived with 'Mayfairs' & Quad '405' for quite sometime so must have liked them..However those aside i am a paper cone fan at heart...
So am I, dude. Monitor Golds have paper cones - some of them nice big 'uns... ;)
Marco.
walpurgis
19-11-2012, 19:13
Nice work, Geoff! :clap: :respect:
So am I, dude. Monitor Golds have paper cones - some of them nice big 'uns... ;)
Marco.
Cheers Marco,
if you weren't so far away, I'd ask for a listen to your 15" MG Lockwoods.
Geoff.
Well, you'd be very welcome anytime, so don't rule it out! :)
Marco.
They look superb Geoff, very nice work. :clapclapclap:
Rare Bird
20-11-2012, 01:30
Pioneer PL-61, top of the range circa 1971.
Nien twas PL C1700..
walpurgis
20-11-2012, 10:29
Nien twas PL C1700..
You may be right Andre,
but if I recall the 71 came out a year or two later and then took top position.
Strangely, neither are in my 1971 or 1972 Hi-Fi Yearbooks.
I'll have to have a rummage, I think I've got seventies Pioneer brochures somewhere, which may have details.
Geoff.
Rare Bird
20-11-2012, 12:58
You may be right Andre,
but if I recall the 71 came out a year or two later and then took top position.
Strangely, neither are in my 1971 or 1972 Hi-Fi Yearbooks.
I'll have to have a rummage, I think I've got seventies Pioneer brochures somewhere, which may have details.
Geoff.
I think the 'PL71' was indeed 1974..I not 100% up on Jap products but the 'PL71' could have, as you say later replaced the '1700' as the top model in the range.
walpurgis
22-01-2013, 21:04
Well, I've been living with the renovated 3128 Chatsworth II speakers for couple of months now and have got acclimatised to their abilities, they just seem to get better every time I use them. They sound gorgeous
I've had many pairs of vintage Tannoys, some better than others, but these are by far and away the best sounding I've owned. You know when you hear a really good pair of Tannoys, the whole presentation is very smooth and transparent, nothing draws attention to itself across the whole audible range.
I've just been spinning a few CDs and the sound is very, very musical and ambient, the way female vocals come across is absolutely fantastic, so natural. The bass is all there, but doesn't draw attention because it is clean bass. You just could not ask for better detail presentation. This is bliss!
Bigman80
16-02-2017, 11:45
Wow,. Great thread Geoff. Superb work. I'll know where to send mine when I pull the trigger and buy some !!!
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
walpurgis
16-02-2017, 11:59
Ha. Just listening to them right now :).
southall-1998
16-02-2017, 13:19
I've heard Geoff's Tannoy's more than a dozen times. They certainly work well in his humble small listening room. The separation and detail retrieval from these Tannoy's are all brilliant.
Great midrange too!
S.
Bigman80
16-02-2017, 13:23
I'm green with envy ! They certainly look the nuts anyway.
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
Papa Dee
29-07-2017, 14:52
Hi Geoff.... I managed to pick up a pair of original Cheviot cabinets that I'm going to transfer the speakers and
crossovers from my existing Devons.
I'm in the process of preparing the cabinet before applying Danish oil... so far so good !! Unfortunately the cabinets
don't have any plinths and I was hoping you could supply me with the size specifications and what wood they are made
of....
thanks Dee
walpurgis
29-07-2017, 16:26
Hi Geoff.... I managed to pick up a pair of original Cheviot cabinets that I'm going to transfer the speakers and
crossovers from my existing Devons.
I'm in the process of preparing the cabinet before applying Danish oil... so far so good !! Unfortunately the cabinets
don't have any plinths and I was hoping you could supply me with the size specifications and what wood they are made
of....
thanks Dee
Hello Dee. I can't access the plinths at the moment. They are set down into the short box stands my Tannoys are on and I have mountains of stuff in the way at present (and as usual :)). However, I believe they are 50mm high and set back from the cabinet front and side edges approximately 18mm. They meet the cabinet edge at the rear though. Any decent hardwood should do the job. Something like Beech or Ramin maybe.
Papa Dee
30-07-2017, 17:32
Thanks for the swift response... will start making up the plinths tomorrow...
Cheers Dee
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