Squeezebox touch arrives

[kininigin]

I have bought a SBT,after someone put a link to a deal on the wigwam site.
I have no idea how i got one,as i was in a que (50th place) and they apparently went in a minute.Anyway after about 20mins,i was given the chance to buy one and i duly obliged.

I haven't bought one sooner,as i was unsure whether they would be a vast improvement over using a pc,sound quality wise that is!

I intend to run it with a usb harddrive,so i don't have to use the pc.In the summer,i need to run the fans quicker and it gets a liitle bit noisier and distracting when playing music more quietly.

I don't really know much about it,so is there anything i should know to get the best out of it,out the box? I'll look at power supplies at a later date.

[NRG]

IMHO the Touch does not have enough horsepower to successfully run the embedded TinySqeezeCentre software, it works up to a point with a small music library but as soon as you start to grow this and add graphics it slow down....and when you start to get anal about sound quality you'll find that streaming via wired ethernet will provided the best option and give a better user experience. Do this before spending £££ on a power supply.

[kininigin]

Thanks for the reply neal,but i don't want the pc on,for the reasons i stated.

My pc is next to my hi fi,it cannot go anywhere else! If it's just a question of loading times for tracks,it doesn't really bother me,unless it's going to be ridiculous!

Does anyone run the SBT with a usb harddrive? What is your experience?

[electric beach]

OR...

Get an independently powered hard drive (not USB powered) and you're fine. They're not easy to find cheap now as the marketing angle has moved to the convenience of USB power, which the Touch does not do well.
Personally I prefer to ditch the artwork in favour of superior (read less "digital" ) sound quality by not sending the signal through ethernet cable or wireless. I still have operation control on my iPhone with Logitec App.

I too wanted to avoid using a computer. Get an S-Booster from Mark Grant to deal with the SMPS power supply noise though.

[kininigin]

Hi steve,

Right,so powered Harddrive is the way to go,ok i'll start looking.

Atm i'm using foobar,but i do have an ipod touch.Do you know if i can run foobar on that and if not what can i use?

[camtwister]

Also, take advantage of your rather sexy modified Caiman and Supra digital cable by installing the Enhanced Digital Output applet and disabling the analogue outputs on the Touch.

[electric beach]

I use the Buffalo HD but the model has been discontinued a few months ago and replaced with USB power.

Sorry, don't know much about other possible control interfaces. An android phone or an iPad I think, or you may have to use the Touch screen and the remote. Not a problem unless you are 10 feet away with failing eyesight like me :rolleyes:

[electric beach]

Also, take advantage of your rather sexy modified Caiman and Supra digital cable by installing the Enhanced Digital Output applet and disabling the analogue outputs on the Touch.

Oh yes, didn't notice that one. The onboard Dac is good (very good with the MCRU power supply), but the Triode app and an outboard Dac is definately the most musical improvement I've made. Installing an app to improve your system must be as far from tweaking a tonearm or cartridge as it's possible to get! :lol:

[kininigin]

Also, take advantage of your rather sexy modified Caiman and Supra digital cable by installing the Enhanced Digital Output applet and disabling the analogue outputs on the Touch.

I'll look into it,all easy stuff to do is it?


I use the Buffalo HD but the model has been discontinued a few months ago and replaced with USB power.

Sorry, don't know much about other possible control interfaces. An android phone or an iPad I think, or you may have to use the Touch screen and the remote. Not a problem unless you are 10 feet away with failing eyesight like me :rolleyes:

I'm pretty much nearfield listening anyway,so not a major concern with the controls.If you can randomly shuffle albums,then that is fine for me.

[Ali Tait]

The Touch will work fine with an attached powered HD, at least up to a point. You will find once your music collection gets over a certain size, the Touch will start to freeze and buffer/stutter all the time.

I went through all of this for the same reasons- I didn't want a pc on whilst I played music, but eventually had to bite the bullet once the size of my collection started causing problems.

One way out is to find a NAS that will run squeezecenter.

As Neal says, there just isn't enough horsepower under the bonnet.

[NRG]

....by not sending the signal through ethernet cable or wireless.

Just a picky point to mention in passing, you're not sending a 'signal' over ethernet, you are sending CRC protected, encapsulated, PCM / FLAC encoded (etc) data...its not an audio signal as such until its converted.

[kininigin]

The Touch will work fine with an attached powered HD, at least up to a point. You will find once your music collection gets over a certain size, the Touch will start to freeze and buffer/stutter all the time.


What size are we talking? I have about 300gb atm

[Ali Tait]

How long is a piece of string? It depends on how much artwork you have etc. too many variables to say. Just try it and see.

[kininigin]

Fair enough :)

[electric beach]

I have a 1tb HD, about half full of FLAC files but no artwork and I've never had one hitch in replay.

[kininigin]

Sounds abit hit and miss then.

I only have a usb hd atm,which itself is temperamental.I need to start putting some files on there,haven't used it in ages and i think it's empty.

[electric beach]

Just a picky point to mention in passing, you're not sending a 'signal' over ethernet, you are sending CRC protected, encapsulated, PCM / FLAC encoded (etc) data...its not an audio signal as such until its converted.

Yes, I see - even if you unpack the FLAC file on a PC you would still be sending a WAV file to the Touch. I stand corrected. I tried a comparison between a FLAC and WAV file processed on the Touch itself and I could hear no difference. However, when I disconect the ethernet connection and fire up the Touch without it, I hear a tonal benefit. May just be the balance in my system though.

[Bluedroog]

If you haven’t already disable the digital volume on the Touch by setting to 100% in the options, this really helped for me.

As an alternative to powered USB hard drives have you looked at NAS drives? I still use my laptop but at some point would like to use a Vortexbox appliance to store my library.
It has auto FLAC ripping / tagging / album art (not perhaps as accurate as using software on PC but great for people allergic to computers like me).

For internet radio in terms of a great selection of quality music try Radio Paradise and for quality try the Linn radio stations.

[kininigin]

I haven't recieved it yet,should be here anytime now.Thanks for the suggestions and will check out the internet radio.

I assume i just need the router on with the wireless function enabled,to get the radio stations?

[Ali Tait]

I have a 1tb HD, about half full of FLAC files but no artwork and I've never had one hitch in replay.

Yes, I think artwork is the main cause of the problem.

[MCRU]

It all gets too technical for the first time user, people try to be helpful but computer audio is a vast minefield and everyone uses different configurations. My advice as a long time squeezebox user is load some flacs onto a usb drive or an sd card as the touch accepts both, hey you can even have 5 or 6 usb drives loaded with music and just swap them over, leave the touch alone until you get used to the sound, as long as you avoid using a nas drive and pc as it looks like you intend to do then it will sound really good.

When you have gotten used to the way it sounds and the operational foibles (not many I am glad to say) then I suggest an external psu should be first on the agenda as that is the single biggest sound quality up-grade I know of and the easiest to implement.

Then if you so desire the touch's internals can be modified by connecting it to a network, this does make it sound even better but by how much compared to a psu is debatable.

You have chosen the best way to listen sound quality wise with the usb stick or you could use a small external HDD connected by USB, I prefer the usb sticks myself, far easier and less faffy, overall the touch is the bargain of the decade as far as I am concerned and so easy to use, just wish there were more hi-res flacs but time will tell.

If you are using the wall wart initially the touch sounds better through an external dac, when you get a linear psu lots of customers have reported they have sold their DAC's and use the squeezebox's own internal DAC which sounds exceptionally good once the wall wart is out of the equation.

[kininigin]

Its just arrived,i'm off for a play :D

[Ali Tait]

Enjoy!

[Bluedroog]

I haven't recieved it yet,should be here anytime now.Thanks for the suggestions and will check out the internet radio.

I assume i just need the router on with the wireless function enabled,to get the radio stations?

That is correct. You can switch between your own library (such as an allocated computer) or to listen to radio it will prompt you to switch to mysqueezebox.com so you don’t need anything else switched on, just connected to the internet.

[electric beach]

If you are using the wall wart initially the touch sounds better through an external dac, when you get a linear psu lots of customers have reported they have sold their DAC's and use the squeezebox's own internal DAC which sounds exceptionally good once the wall wart is out of the equation.

I think that depends on the Dac David. I've got the MCRU supply and made the comparison. I really rate the internal Dac and of course the interconnects are also removed from the equation, but with mine (a valve job made by Duncan Williams) it takes things to a whole other level of refinement - and the EDO app by Triode is incredible.

[electric beach]

If you haven’t already disable the digital volume on the Touch by setting to 100% in the options, this really helped for me.


Bloody hell Christian :eek:

I've tried comparing the volume set at 100% before but couldn't hear a benefit. I just tried turning it off in the menu and that's a different beast entirely. Well worthwhile. Must get an amp with remote control now as I like to play tracks from different albums and the volumes can be 50% different.

Thanks for that, I'd underestimated it before.

[Bluedroog]

I’m not too clued up on the technicalities of computer based audio but I think it has something to do with certain digital volumes degrading the signal in order to reduce the volume. I used to use the volume on the Touch as it was my only way of using r/c volume and had a hiss the was driving me up the wall. I by-passed the volume and it really cleaned up the level of noise, I blamed every other link in my system but it was all down to the Touch’s volume. Now set to 100% and it produces a completely ‘clean’ sound. I think experiences will vary depending on partnering equipment but for me it was profound.

[electric beach]

I'm no techy either, a definate "user" :lol:

I was also blaming other parts of my system for hardening in the upper frequencies and background glare, mostly the SMPS on the Mini-T amp. That's definately flawed and introduces noise, you can measure it, but this is something else! Also an improvement tonally and dynamically. Similar to the effect of the S-Booster when I put it on the amp, but without the compression.

Big smiles! :):):)

Trouble is I should be getting on but want to explore my library now, you know how it is :rolleyes:

[kininigin]

Well it's up and running.Was simple to set up,has a clear screen,which i would be able to see from 20ft away so no need for extra controllers.

Only issue i have,is my external HD is playing up and my pc will not see it,so i cannot put any files on it :(

Just listening to the radio and it sounds pretty decent.I never listened to the radio on my pc,so cannot compare.

All in all,nice little device,from what i've seen/heard so far.

[MCRU]

I think that depends on the Dac David. I've got the MCRU supply and made the comparison. I really rate the internal Dac and of course the interconnects are also removed from the equation, but with mine (a valve job made by Duncan Williams) it takes things to a whole other level of refinement - and the EDO app by Triode is incredible.

You are correct but the customers who have sold their DAC's well a few of them anyway were using ones like the dacmagic and one was a rega so hardly top flight dac's, I do agree that the touch is capable of not disgracing itself with whatever dac you use, the room we had in scalford was set up with nick's touch and psu and plenty of people asked us what dac we were using, of course when we told them the touch's own dac they were quite surprised!

[MCRU]

Well it's up and running.Was simple to set up,has a clear screen,which i would be able to see from 20ft away so no need for extra controllers.

Only issue i have,is my external HD is playing up and my pc will not see it,so i cannot put any files on it :(

Just listening to the radio and it sounds pretty decent.I never listened to the radio on my pc,so cannot compare.

All in all,nice little device,from what i've seen/heard so far.

Try an sd card matey if you have one lying about?

[kininigin]

Try an sd card matey if you have one lying about?

I do have one for the camera,it's only 4gb though.I'll give it a go anyway :)

[kininigin]

It all gets too technical for the first time user, people try to be helpful but computer audio is a vast minefield and everyone uses different configurations. My advice as a long time squeezebox user is load some flacs onto a usb drive or an sd card as the touch accepts both, hey you can even have 5 or 6 usb drives loaded with music and just swap them over, leave the touch alone until you get used to the sound, as long as you avoid using a nas drive and pc as it looks like you intend to do then it will sound really good.

When you have gotten used to the way it sounds and the operational foibles (not many I am glad to say) then I suggest an external psu should be first on the agenda as that is the single biggest sound quality up-grade I know of and the easiest to implement.

Then if you so desire the touch's internals can be modified by connecting it to a network, this does make it sound even better but by how much compared to a psu is debatable.

You have chosen the best way to listen sound quality wise with the usb stick or you could use a small external HDD connected by USB, I prefer the usb sticks myself, far easier and less faffy, overall the touch is the bargain of the decade as far as I am concerned and so easy to use, just wish there were more hi-res flacs but time will tell.

If you are using the wall wart initially the touch sounds better through an external dac, when you get a linear psu lots of customers have reported they have sold their DAC's and use the squeezebox's own internal DAC which sounds exceptionally good once the wall wart is out of the equation.

All good advice and exactly what i intend to do.I don't like changing too much all at once anyway.The psu won't happen well into next year and any software changes that might be used,won't happen till i understand them and what they are meant to do!!

[Stratmangler]

One of these lifts the bar instantly http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_77&products_id=270

[WAD62]

I jumped on the Amazon bargain bandwagon too, and it's arrived today...

At that price I couldn't resist ;)

However, and it's a big however, the touch is going to require me to upgrade from SBCenter 7.3.3, as it apparently won't work with anything below 7.4

My server is a QNAP TS-119 (1.2ghz arm processor), and works very nicely running 4 clients at 7.3.3, does anyone have a view on the relative efficiency/performance requirements of the latest version 'Logitech Media Server 7.7.2' ?

...or where I can download older server versions from, as I've read that 7.5.2 does work well on a QNAP TS-119.

P.S. Mark, put one of your SBT PSUs aside for me, if I can get it working I'll be ordering one, and Chris I've eventually come across to the touch side...looking forward to being impressed :)

[NRG]

SC downloads here: http://downloads.slimdevices.com/

[WAD62]

SC downloads here: http://downloads.slimdevices.com/

Cheers Neil, that's the page I was looking for :)

[Stratmangler]

I jumped on the Amazon bargain bandwagon too, and it's arrived today...

At that price I couldn't resist ;)

However, and it's a big however, the touch is going to require me to upgrade from SBCenter 7.3.3, as it apparently won't work with anything below 7.4

My server is a QNAP TS-119 (1.2ghz arm processor), and works very nicely running 4 clients at 7.3.3, does anyone have a view on the relative efficiency/performance requirements of the latest version 'Logitech Media Server 7.7.2' ?

...or where I can download older server versions from, as I've read that 7.5.2 does work well on a QNAP TS-119.

P.S. Mark, put one of your SBT PSUs aside for me, if I can get it working I'll be ordering one, and Chris I've eventually come across to the touch side...looking forward to being impressed :)

I found that 7.5.2 didn't work very well on my Zyxel NSA310, to the point that I decided to use the NSA310 purely for backup.
I continued to run LMS on a desktop PC.

There was a firmware upgrade for the Zyxel earlier this year, and with it came an upgrade to 7.7.1 which works brilliantly - I now use the Zyxel to run LMS.

Can't speak for the QNAP stuff unfortunately.

[WAD62]

Can't speak for the QNAP stuff unfortunately.

Hi Chris, just found this QNAP thread...

http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=57482&start=15

...looks like the latest version is available from QNAP and is OK for the TS-119, so if I do it I may as well go for the latest version :eyebrows:

Fingers crossed...;)

[Stratmangler]

Fingers crossed...;)

May the force be with you ;)

[dave2010]

The Touch will work fine with an attached powered HD, at least up to a point. You will find once your music collection gets over a certain size, the Touch will start to freeze and buffer/stutter all the time.

I went through all of this for the same reasons- I didn't want a pc on whilst I played music, but eventually had to bite the bullet once the size of my collection started causing problems.

One way out is to find a NAS that will run squeezecenter.

As Neal says, there just isn't enough horsepower under the bonnet.
Quite a number of NAS devices don't have much oomph, either. Many are also slow in the comms deparment, so follow this suggestion with care.

[Stratmangler]

Quit a number of NAS devices don't have much oomph, either. Many are also slow in the comms deparment, so follow this suggestion with care.

I agree.
Twice :eyebrows:

[Frankyc2003]

My 2 penny worth, I have just received my SBT from Amazon at slashed price. Wasn't really expecting anything special, just something really practical for my GF to navigate the CDs.
As soon as I got it hooked on my rDac, I fell on my proverbial a**e.
How good is that thing...? I mean seriously, how good is it for the money you would pay and for that level of performance..?
It plays my albums from B&W like a dream via wireless, and I am not even talking about HiRes downloads from 2L or Naim...
I did also enjoyed a bit of the old radio... This device is brilliant... BRILLIANT...

Anyway, I can now seriously think about getting the rid of my CDs to make space for the Vinyl!

:cool:

[Stratmangler]

As soon as I got it hooked on my rDac, I fell on my proverbial a**e.
How good is that thing...? I mean seriously, how good is it for the money you would pay and for that level of performance..?

Get a decent linear PSU for it and things get even better.
You can raise the performance bar with the supplied SPMS PSU by getting one of these http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_77&products_id=270
And yes, the effects are still audible when using the Touch as a transport ;)

[Russell Turner]

Hi,

Advice for running the Squeezebox Touch without an external server:


Make sure the USB hard drive is self powered and formatted with one partition (delete the hidden partition if it is there) and make sure it is FAT32 formatted
Make sure all your albums for music is in the format of one album per folder at a push two folders under the one for CD 1 CD2 releases
Make sure that all your cover images are under 300KB's
Make sure there are no other "rogue" file types other than your FLAC / MP3 / jpegs in the folders, no texts etc


Advice for Hifi aspects:


Purchase a higher spec power supply unit for the thing, something like the MCRU one or the SBooster at a minimum
Get a decent Coaxial interconnect for the device, nothing shoddy, this AoS member makes good uns http://theartofsound.net/forum/member.php?u=113
Load the EDO Plugin for 192KHz support and the option of just having a digital only output, I use the Large Buffers option with the plugin as the small buffers option sounded harsher to me


The Squeezebox Touch can hold it's own with the right elements around it and I am very happy with it, also you might want to try loading the Spotify plugin on it and there are numerous remote controller applications for mobile devices like the Logitech one or the better iPhone / iPad app iPeng.

Just shout if you need any other help or advise.

[dave2010]

i see that the price of the Touch has dropped below £180 again on Amazon. i wonder if this is just a seasonal or temporary price reduction, or if it indicates that this model is due to be replaced or upgraded.

I've still not bought one of these, as I'm contemplating getting a Mac Mini to serve out audio and video instead. Mac Minis should have more than enough computer power to run an audio or video system, but I suspect that a new model will be along sometime in the not too distant future - but didn't happen with Apple's last update to their product line a month or so back.

[WAD62]

May the force be with you ;)

...thankfully it was Chris :)

All upgraded now to 7.7.2, and respective firmware updates to the players too, was very easy once I'd de-installed FilpFlip's SSOTS platform (an old QNAP requirement for pre 7.5 servers).

I'm very impressed, far more responsive and efficient than 7.3.3, a complete re-build of my library of 2k cds took only 45mins!!! Previously that would be about 3 hours...result!

It looks like the SQLite implementation is far more efficient than the previous MySQL version, so I'm no longer bound by CPU, whilst rebuilding it hovers around 75%, whereas previously it was flat out at 100% for 3 hours...

I'll give the touch a better listen today...I'll use the Sbooster from my SB3 :cool:

P.S. Off to Mark's store for a PSU

[NRG]

I can't recall where I saw it but the Mac Mini was described as have quite bad jitter ...can't verify if true or not buts it's a very appealing option.

Glad you got it sorted Will, the SBT with a few tweaks blows away any decent transport :D ;)

[peter312]

I can't recall where I saw it but the Mac Mini was described as have quite bad jitter ...can't verify if true or not buts it's a very appealing option.

Glad you got it sorted Will, the SBT with a few tweaks blows away any decent transport :D ;)

I believe that Hi-Fi World have found the 2012 Mac Mini to have low jitter and low noise. It is on my shortlist of ways to get into computer audio. The trouble is that list also includes a SB Touch and a Lenovo Q180, so I haven't really narrowed it down any :doh:

Cheers

[WAD62]

Glad you got it sorted Will, the SBT with a few tweaks blows away any decent transport :D ;)

Indeed...just looking forward to how it compares to the SB receiver it's replacing, a bit difficult to compare as I have a linear PSU + Sbooster on that, I'll see how things are when I get Mark's PSU...a bit more of a level playing field ;)

[kininigin]

One of these lifts the bar instantly http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_77&products_id=270

I do intend to go that route chris,just not quite yet.I've not even got my HD sorted yet :doh:

[WAD62]

One of these lifts the bar instantly http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_77&products_id=270

...ordered, given that the SBooster alone is £28 it's not a bad price for a 5v linear PSU :)

[WAD62]

Initial thoughts...

SBT (with Sbooster) Vs SBR (with Sbooster + linear PSU);

SBT has a bit more detail

I've now put on Triode's EDO option (V0.7), digital out only, using SPDIF;

SBT has even more detail...very nice:)

MG's linear PSU should be arriving tomorrow, should be interesting :eyebrows:

[kininigin]

Sounds like it's hitting the spot.

I've still not got my HD sorted yet,so still using mainly internet radio.I have used it with my pc connected,but not really been doing critical listening as of yet.

[WAD62]

Sounds like it's hitting the spot.


...it is indeed, it could be a bit of 'burn in' too I suppose, but it sounds very nice :)