View Full Version : Latest deck at rexton towers!
Wakefield Turntables
28-07-2012, 17:18
Bought this for the princely sum of £113 delivered. This will form take over vinyl playing duties until the 1210 is fixed! :)
wiicrackpot
28-07-2012, 17:54
Bought this for the princely sum of £113 delivered. This will form take over vinyl playing duties until the 1210 is fixed! :)
Arm included??, you got a deal if it did Andrew. :)
wii.
Wakefield Turntables
28-07-2012, 18:17
No! Now that would have been the barg of the year if I could have got the Alphason Hr100 arm as well. I'll be strapping my technoarm on it for the time being until I can find said arm.
wiicrackpot
28-07-2012, 18:28
Thought it look like the Xenon or the one lower down, still it's a good deal mind and with the Tecnoarm on it should sound pretty good,
interesting if you'd want the Dj deck back again, :eyebrows:..........only joak'n. :D
wii.
From the basic pic the deck looks related to the Colin Walker decks of yesteryear.. I liked colin, seemed one of the good guys at the time..
Wouldn't a new board from Technics cost about the same as this deck though?
Rare Bird
29-07-2012, 13:34
No! Now that would have been the barg of the year if I could have got the Alphason Hr100 arm as well.
Thats not an 'HR100' as Wiicrackpot says it's a 'Xenon'..Id rather live with the Alphason 'Solo' deck over the Techy any day.
Wakefield Turntables
29-07-2012, 17:21
From the basic pic the deck looks related to the Colin Walker decks of yesteryear.. I liked colin, seemed one of the good guys at the time..
Wouldn't a new board from Technics cost about the same as this deck though?
Probably but I fancied something completely different. It makes a change from the usual Garrard / Thorens / Technics decks etc. I actually thought a bargain basement Sansui but this caught my eye. :D
Thats not an 'HR100' as Wiicrackpot says it's a 'Xenon'..Id rather live with the Alphason 'Solo' deck over the Techy any day.
Well my 1210 is one tripped out beast and I'd beg to differ :ner: Have you had any experience with Alphason gear :scratch: It would be nice to hear yout thoughts about the brand. ;)
Rare Bird
29-07-2012, 17:53
Yes i used to own a 'Sonata' Mk.I' with 'HR100s-MCS' one of the very best turntables i ever owned. I still believe that pick-up arm is one of the greatest sounding arms ever produced.
wiicrackpot
29-07-2012, 18:53
Yes i used to own a 'Sonata' Mk.I' with 'HR100s-MCS' one of the very best turntables i ever owned. I still believe that pick-up arm is one of the greatest sounding arms ever produced.
I don't know if it belongs to the 'greatest tonearm' elite club, all i know is mine survived from LP12, PT Export, Roksan X20, 401 and now going onto another project after being replaced by the SME IV, by far the one bit of kit i kept the longest.:cool:
Rare Bird, have you ever heard the Alpha Symphony TT ?, looked interesting when it was released.
Rare Bird
29-07-2012, 19:11
Never heard a 'Symphony'..
tbh my choices in turntables have altered drastically to what they used to be
The HR100s lacked in only one thing I felt, the finish wasn't up to Ittok/SME standards. It seems though that in every other respect, it's possibly one of the greatest one-piece style arms ever made - as long as the bearings and wiring are in fine fettle. Sounds incredible with a Decca, this combo on a Gyrodek I recall :)
Wakefield Turntables
29-07-2012, 21:25
i nearly bought the Alphason tonearm on another deck last week but my bid didnt make the reserve. I have seen a couple come up this year of ebay so I'll bide my time. I think it'll be going over the J7 when I purchase one. :eyebrows:
Wakefield Turntables
29-07-2012, 21:26
Hey congrats Dave R you made 10000 posts :mex:
Beobloke
30-07-2012, 08:04
i nearly bought the Alphason tonearm on another deck last week but my bid didnt make the reserve. I have seen a couple come up this year of ebay so I'll bide my time. I think it'll be going over the J7 when I purchase one. :eyebrows:
Wise move.
I thought that my HR-100S was fine until I reviewed the Jelco SA-750D. When I went back to the Alphason I felt I could detect a hint of play in the vertical bearings - happened to mention it to Johnnie who told me to send it up to him and he'd look at it.
Turned out that two of the ceramic bearings had crumbled virtually to dust. He repaired it, sent it back and the difference in sound quality was staggering!
"crumbled virtually to dust" really - I have to say, that sounds very unlikely! I've never encountered any bearing crumble to dust - particularly when loaded as lightly as arm bearings are. If there was so much pressure that the bearings were damaged the friction would have been huge (relatively)!
sq225917
30-07-2012, 08:50
Yup, you'd have to hit one with a hammer to crack it, the arm would be unusable as a result. I think the phrase, 'bearing needed adjusting' would be closer to the truth.
It's those pesky bearing-nibbling weevils, I tell you, they bugger up everything!
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
30-07-2012, 09:02
Wise move.
I thought that my HR-100S was fine until I reviewed the Jelco SA-750D. When I went back to the Alphason I felt I could detect a hint of play in the vertical bearings - happened to mention it to Johnnie who told me to send it up to him and he'd look at it.
Turned out that two of the ceramic bearings had crumbled virtually to dust. He repaired it, sent it back and the difference in sound quality was staggering!
Adam,
I think that you use Orton Kontrapunt B with your Alphason tonearm?? Have you any recommendations for this arm?? I dont want another ortofon as I have the cadenza black on the 1210. Thanks
A
Spectral Morn
30-07-2012, 09:48
The HR 100 is certainly a fine arm, though I would need to hear one now against something I know well. Back in the day (I am starting to sound like DSJR) it was considered a good arm but the SME 4 and 5 were as I recall better sounding arms.
However in saying that the combination of an HR100 and Sonata turntable (expertly set up and the TT was a pain to do because the platter was so heavy) was an excellent combination. I think it a real shame :( that Alphason now days only makes furniture but there is more money in that than electronics, speakers or turntables I guess.
Alphason also made some nice speakers as well but there wee entry level turntable was, as I recall it, pretty poor.
Beobloke
30-07-2012, 11:55
"crumbled virtually to dust" really - I have to say, that sounds very unlikely!
I am merely reporting in turn what Mr. J7 reported to me!
The HR 100 is certainly a fine arm, though I would need to hear one now against something I know well. Back in the day (I am starting to sound like DSJR) it was considered a good arm but the SME 4 and 5 were as I recall better sounding arms.
I borrowed an SME V for a few weeks a couple of years back. (well, I say that - the reality was that David Price left his in the HFW office before Christmas and then disappeared off to China for the holidays, so I nicked it for a couple of weeks...:D).
Anyhoo, I was pleased to hear that it was better than my HR-100S but a little surprised that the differences weren't night and day.
Well, I've always said that modern SME arms are 'all fur and no knickers'! ;)
If an SME V doesn't totally outperform an HR-100S, then that definitely says more about the SME than the Alphason....
Marco.
Beobloke
30-07-2012, 13:47
If an SME V doesn't totally outperform an HR-100S, then that definitely says more about the SME than the Alphason....
Marco.
Why?
Well, it quite clearly says that most modern hi-fi equipment is not much better than the best of what was made over 30-odd years ago...
The only thing that has 'improved' drastically is the bloody price tag!! ;)
Marco.
Audioman
30-07-2012, 14:43
Well, it quite clearly says that most modern hi-fi equipment is not much better than the best of what was made over 30-odd years ago...
The only thing that has 'improved' drastically is the bloody price tag!! ;)
Marco.
I expect the Alphason would be north of £1K now given typical hi-fi price inflation. Manufacturers now appear to charge what they like with a few exceptions rather than on a cost + reasonable profit basis.
Which is precisely what's wrong now with the hi-fi industry... The 'invent a price for your desired badge' bollocks :doh:
Essentially what I was getting at was that it's a sad day if SME's top 9" tonearm of today can't wipe the floor, sonically, with a design from over 30 years ago, which ably demonstrates in that time how little real progress we've made in certain areas of audio!
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
30-07-2012, 15:16
Well, I've always said that modern SME arms are 'all fur and no knickers'! ;)
Marco.
I like furry things - :eyebrows:
prestonchipfryer
30-07-2012, 15:22
Which is precisely what's wrong now with the hi-fi industry... The 'invent a price for your desired badge' bollocks :doh:
Marco.
Same old story, greed taking precedent over everything else.
I like furry things - :eyebrows:
With or without dandruff?
Marco.
Hi fi has never been that cheap.
prestonchipfryer
30-07-2012, 16:54
With or without dandruff?
Marco.
I'm not that fussy! At my age it's the taking part that matters.
Or finishing the job before 'exploding'! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Beobloke
30-07-2012, 17:57
Essentially what I was getting at was that it's a sad day if SME's top 9" tonearm of today can't wipe the floor, sonically, with a design from over 30 years ago, which ably demonstrates in that time how little real progress we've made in certain areas of audio!
Marco.
But the V was introduced in 1985, which makes its design nearly 30 years old as well!!
Whether you like it or not (and I know you don't), the V was a game-changer when it was introduced - it's a design classic and an engineering masterpiece from a company who, at the time, had 26 years of tonearm design experience. The very fact that, 27 years later many people (and, yes, I include myself amongst this group) still view it as "the best pickup arm in the world" suggests they did something right!
Compare it to the HR-100S which, although designed by a very talented gentleman, was new on the scene in the early 1980s and made initially in a garage speaks volumes to the magnificent quality of its design and build. It equally is a classic, but this doesn't take anything away from SME in my book.
Hi Adam,
Lol... You know we disagree about these things, but it's always interesting discussing them with you! So, on we go..... :)
But the V was introduced in 1985, which makes its design nearly 30 years old as well!!
Even worse then if in all that time they still haven't sufficiently optimised its performance, in order to sonically outperform a design that stopped being produced 30 years ago!! :doh:
What radically new designs have SME come up with in the last 30 years, despite having access to some of the finest engineering facilities in world?
Where is the evidence of any further genuine design flair, innovation and/or lateral thinking - or the continual striving for greater levels of sonic performance, in the last 30 years? Nowhere that I can see... The fact is, the company have rested on their laurels during that time, churning out largely the same stuff, and have simply traded off of their reputation.
It suits the Japanese and people who enjoy the 'warm glow' and sense of pride in owning something that is quintessentially British, and/or those for whom admiring the engineering of an SME tonearm is ultimately more important than its sonic prowess. Count me out!
I wonder what, say, the likes of Arthur Khoubessarian (or the chap who designed the HR-100S) would've come up with, if for the last 30 years they'd had access to the engineering, marketing and financial resources of SME??
Whether you like it or not (and I know you don't), the V was a game-changer when it was introduced...
A game changer - in what way exactly? Tell me how the SME V, of the day, was any better than a Fidelity Research FR64S??
it's a design classic and an engineering masterpiece from a company who, at the time, had 26 years of tonearm design experience. The very fact that, 27 years later many people (and, yes, I include myself amongst this group) still view it as "the best pickup arm in the world" suggests they did something right!
Lol! It certainly isn't "the best pick-up arm in the world", as far as I'm concerned - far from it. The only way that term would mean anything in a real sense, rather than instead some misplaced nostalgic marketing guff, would be if the sonic performance of an SME V statistically and continually exceeded that of designs from the competition, which clearly isn't the case, when comparing it to the likes of a Graham Phantom or a Breuer (amongst many others).
Compare it to the HR-100S which, although designed by a very talented gentleman, was new on the scene in the early 1980s and made initially in a garage speaks volumes to the magnificent quality of its design and build. It equally is a classic, but this doesn't take anything away from SME in my book.
Mmmm, well, erm.... I think you know my answer to that! :D
I love all the classic SME tonearms, such as the 3009 and 3012 (now they were genuinely "game changers"!) and the current iterations thereof, but you can stick the magnesium armtube stuff.
Marco.
Beobloke
30-07-2012, 21:23
Hi Adam,
Even worse then if in all that time they still haven't sufficiently optimised its performance, in order to sonically outperform a design that stopped being produced 30 years ago!! :doh:
What radically new designs have SME come up with in the last 30 years, despite having access to some of the finest engineering facilities in world?
Where is the evidence of any further genuine design flair, innovation and/or lateral thinking - or the continual striving for greater levels of sonic performance, in the last 30 years? Nowhere that I can see... The fact is, the company have rested on their laurels during that time, churning out largely the same stuff, and have simply traded off of their reputation.
There's a lot to be said in the old expression "if it ain't broke - don't fix it". Look at the your beloved Technics SL-1200. The Mk2 came out in 1978 and precious little changed until its expiry in 2010. Yes, they shoved some gold plate here and a quartz lock reset switch there but the basic design didn't move at all! Are you therefore accusing Technics of being a lazy bunch of so and so's as well for living off a successful item and not changing it? I bet not!
A game changer - in what way exactly? Tell me how the SME V, of the day, was any better than a Fidelity Research FR64S??
Haven't a clue - I've never heard an FR64S, but look how different the V was to the 3009 - an arm which was rapidly falling out of favour because the fashion for cartridges that could track at fractions of a gram finally passed. SME responded with the V and as far as I'm concerned it's still as valid today as it was then as cartridge fundamentals have stayed pretty much the same.
The FR64 shouldn't be spoken of in the same breath as an SME V, so different are the products and performance. The SME was designed to be as inert as possibly and, given a suitable deck and cartridge (I remember a wonderful performance from a Kiseki Agat Ruby in one), it sounds "right" with stable tracing of high frequencies (cymbals especially) and a natural non-sqidgy kind of presentation. I'm sure there are decks it doesn't like, same as with the Rega arms, but in terms of sonics, the Series 2 3009's are way behind IMO.
As for the FR64S, this thing weighs a ton and isn't really suitable for springy belt drives I found. The mass is huge and only really suited to SPU's and similar VERY low compliance cartridges and the measured resonance performance was bettered by the Rega R200 and by inference, the PL71 tonearm too.
Difficult to really judge the SME V in many ways. Some may feel it's just going through the motions, but what else should a tonearm do except add to what the cartridge is doing? I don't know the answer, but what I can say is that the related 309 with three-hole headshell sounded amazing with a Troika and rather better to me than the same cartridge in an Ittok (LP12's used too). Didn't stop clients buying Ittoks instead though 'cos that was the kosher option :(
Adam,
Lol... We'll leave it there, matey, as I think that we both know where each other are coming from! :respect:
Hi Dave,
The FR64 shouldn't be spoken of in the same breath as an SME V, so different are the products and performance.
Yup, but I was thinking purely in terms of their respective engineering and build quality. For me, the SME V, in that respect is no better than the FR :)
Marco.
Beobloke
31-07-2012, 09:22
Adam,
Lol... We'll leave it there, matey, as I think that we both know where each other are coming from! :respect:
Aww, booo - I was enjoying that! :ner:
Lol... I can be even cheekier if you want! :D
Marco.
Audioman
31-07-2012, 16:18
Which is precisely what's wrong now with the hi-fi industry... The 'invent a price for your desired badge' bollocks :doh:
Essentially what I was getting at was that it's a sad day if SME's top 9" tonearm of today can't wipe the floor, sonically, with a design from over 30 years ago, which ably demonstrates in that time how little real progress we've made in certain areas of audio!
Marco.
You are forgetting that in terms of design and availability of the SME and Alaphason the two arms are contemporaneous. Therefore they are both different approaches to near the pinnacle of what could be achieved in the 1980's. I doubt there have been significant developments that do little than provide an alternative sonic flavour rather than significantly improve on either design. The only difference between Alphason and SME is the non continuing availability of the former (due to the old Linn/Naim dealer politics I believe).
As said earlier, the Alphason will probably need servicing should an example come up on fleabay. SME V's tend to suffer cosmetically over the years rather than in engineering terms I think so should always make a good used buy.
Like the Rega arms, I feel the SME solid arms may not work at all on certain decks. They seem to on NAS decks, as the Rega's do, but then the rougher finished NAS tonearms are so good here, why look at alternatives?
The next thing I think is for someone to try a Pro-Ject 9 arm on the techie. Should it work well, it would make for a high tech alternative to the now ubiquitous Jelco methinks...
Hi Paul,
You are forgetting that in terms of design and availability of the SME and Alaphason the two arms are contemporarious.
Sorry, mate. What does that mean? It's not any word that I recognise :scratch:
Therefore they are both different approaches to near the pinnacle of what could be achieved in the 1980's. I doubt there have been significant developments that do little than provide an alternative sonic flavour rather than significantly improve on either design.
I'm not sure. I think that there are certain designs which succeed at getting more information from the grooves than others, the effect of which is probably measureable, but of course all pick-up arms will also impart their own sonic signature on reproduced music, as a by-product of their design principles.
In that respect, I don't consider that an SME V represents the pinnacle of what can be achieved anymore than an Alphason does, although some of today's best designs may succeed better.
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
31-07-2012, 22:34
Sorry, mate. What does that mean? It's not any word that I recognise :scratch:
Small spelling error, I think Marco:
Contemporaneous - from the same period of time
Ah, churz. I thought that's what Paul was getting at, but I wasn't sure :)
Marco.
Audioman
31-07-2012, 22:52
Ah, churz. I thought that's what Paul was getting at, but I wasn't sure :)
Marco.
Typo corrected :) Sorry about the confusion.
Hi Paul,
In that respect, I don't consider that an SME V represents the pinnacle of what can be achieved anymore than an Alphason does, although some of today's best designs may succeed better.
Marco.
Name some 'new' designs. Most I can think of are refinements or reworkings of designs that are 25 to 30 years old. Maybe 'Origin Live' are close to totaly new but Rega inspired. Others such as Audio Note and Audio Origami are old designs using better materials and tolerances. I didn't claim SME/Alphason were ever the pinnacle of arms soundwise but they always were and still pobably are fairly close to the top if matched with a sympathetic deck and cartridge.
walpurgis
01-08-2012, 11:20
I agree with Dave's earlier observations about the Ittok.
I had one for about three years and on various turntables, but I was never really happy with it. There was a vague coarseness at the top end with whatever cartridge was used (dreadful with Deccas, but that was an obvious mismatch). The plastic armlifter mount was flexible and did not help cueing.
I bought a second hand Mission 774 (original) and found what I needed. The improvement in sound was a revelation and the fluid damping meant the Deccas would work properly. I also found it far more musical than the various Rega arms I tried. I still use a slightly modified 774 now, it is a fine arm and a bargain at the prices it fetches. Easy to install, set up and its simple to upgrade too.
Rare Bird
01-08-2012, 11:59
Being a low Mass fiend, the original '774' is one of my fav arms, rewiring the arm wand so it as it's own earth instead of feeding from one of the cartridge tags ground, i found a worthwhile improvement..
Hi Paul,
Name some 'new' designs.
Have a look here, for starters, it's full of them:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14624&highlight=tonearms
I suspect that many of those designs, in some areas, would outperform an SME V and/or an Alphason, or perhaps be preferred overall, sonically, to either. For a 'budget' example of what I'm talking about, see 'The Wand'.
I admire the lateral and creative thinking, and evidence of flair, displayed in products by manufacturers featured in the above thread; something which SME, appear patently unwilling or unable to do, despite their huge resources. As a company, for me, they're just too staid, boring, conservative and unadventurous... :exactly:
I'd no sooner own an SME V than I would drive a Volvo. I don't 'do' safe and boring! :nono:
Marco.
chris@panteg
02-08-2012, 07:35
Hi Paul,
Have a look here, for starters, it's full of them:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14624&highlight=tonearms
I suspect that many of those designs, in some areas, would outperform an SME V and/or an Alphason, or perhaps be preferred overall, sonically, to either. For a 'budget' example of what I'm talking about, see 'The Wand'.
I admire the lateral and creative thinking, and evidence of flair, displayed in products by manufacturers featured in the above thread; something which SME, appear patently unwilling or unable to do, despite their huge resources. As a company, for me, they're just too staid, boring, conservative and unadventurous... :exactly:
I'd no sooner own an SME V than I would drive a Volvo. I don't 'do' safe and boring! :nono:
Marco.
Don't you drive a BMW Marco ? Of course Beemer drivers are well respected for their driving manners and attitude on the road. :eyebrows:
SME , safe and boring ? Pah :)
The Grand Wazoo
02-08-2012, 07:48
........so Andrew, what does the turntable sound like?
Don't you drive a BMW Marco ? Of course Beemer drivers are well respected for their driving manners and attitude on the road. :eyebrows:
Lol - a Merc, actually. Anyway, I've made my point about SME, and so as usual on this subject, we'll agree to disagree :)
Marco.
Audioman
02-08-2012, 08:58
Hi Paul,
Have a look here, for starters, it's full of them:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14624&highlight=tonearms
I suspect that many of those designs, in some areas, would outperform an SME V and/or an Alphason, or perhaps be preferred overall, sonically, to either. For a 'budget' example of what I'm talking about, see 'The Wand'.
I admire the lateral and creative thinking, and evidence of flair, displayed in products by manufacturers featured in the above thread; something which SME, appear patently unwilling or unable to do, despite their huge resources. As a company, for me, they're just too staid, boring, conservative and unadventurous... :exactly:
I'd no sooner own an SME V than I would drive a Volvo. I don't 'do' safe and boring! :nono:
Marco.
Yes some cooky (expensive ?) designs there which I doubt are based on sound engineering principals. Not so keen on the looks of The Wand as yourself and the mounting arrangement looks a bit Heath Robinson. Requires furthur development ? SME = solid engineering and classy finish a bit like those boring Mercedes cars Marco ? :eyebrows:
Stratmangler
02-08-2012, 09:08
SME = solid engineering and classy finish a bit like those boring Mercedes cars Marco ? :eyebrows:
:rfl:
chris@panteg
02-08-2012, 09:18
:DLol
pure sound
02-08-2012, 09:29
I have an SMEV and a J7 rebuilt Alphason Xenon, both wired with AN silver throughout. It makes for an interesting comparision with the Alphason sounding more vivid and explicit, certainly allowing the cartridge to lift more from the record. The SMEV is perhaps calmer sounding and stronger in the bass. However I also have an FR64S which is head & shoulders better than either of them & probably older too!
Yes some cooky (expensive ?) designs there which I doubt are based on sound engineering principals. Not so keen on the looks of The Wand as yourself and the mounting arrangement looks a bit Heath Robinson. Requires furthur development ? SME = solid engineering and classy finish a bit like those boring Mercedes cars Marco ? :eyebrows:
Lol! I think you'll find that Mercedes continually develop and refine their designs, unlike SME. Does a Mercedes from 30 years ago look the same as a new one does now?
The point is that some of those "cooky" tonearm designs show genuine flair and an ability to think outside of the box, something which SME seem patently unable or unwilling to do. I like quirky and different, and being an individual, as I hate owning the same boring stuff everyone else does!
Anyway, we're going round in circles now - you know exactly where I'm coming from! :)
Marco.
Hi Guy,
I have an SMEV and a J7 rebuilt Alphason Xenon, both wired with AN silver throughout. It makes for an interesting comparision with the Alphason sounding more vivid and explicit, certainly allowing the cartridge to lift more from the record.
Interesting, and I'm not surprised. Would you say that, due to being more vivid and explicit, the Alphason makes appropriate music more 'fun' to listen to?
That's what I hear when I've compared tonearms, like the Alphason, against an SME V. For me, the SME V, unless partnered with an 'upfront' sounding cartridge, sounds overly controlled and lacking in what I'd call joie de vivre.
The SMEV is perhaps calmer sounding and stronger in the bass.
I know exactly what you mean and would agree. However, the "calmer sounding" aspect of its presentation, with the wrong cartridge, can so easily tip over into boring... You're fortunate that you use yours with an Io, in order to ameliorate such an effect ;)
However I also have an FR64S which is head & shoulders better than either of them & probably older too!
Hehehehe... I rest my case!!
Marco.
chris@panteg
02-08-2012, 10:16
Lol! I think you'll find that Mercedes continually develop and refine their designs, unlike SME. Does a Mercedes from 30 years ago look the same as a new one does now?
Mercedes made back in the 80's were much better built than the current line up ! I don't use one myself , but to a man , every Merc enthusiast I've met says this ! Still great cars I guess but ...
The point is that some of those "cooky" tonearm designs show genuine flair and an ability to think outside of the box, something which SME seem unable or unwilling to do. I like quirky and different, and being an individual, as I hate owning the same boring stuff everyone else does!
Anyway, we're going round in circles now - you know exactly where I'm coming from! :)
Marco.
I agree entirely Marco ! But please allow some of us boring old farts to make the choice of buying the rather Conservative SME , its so Brittish and I was determined to have a 309 in my otherwise Japanese/Chinese/Indonesian made system , you don't like SME ! Thats fine , but the slagging off is getting a bit tired .
Indeed, which is why I'd left it where it was with Adam, only for him to complain that he was enjoying the debate!
I guess you can't win.... ;)
Marco.
The 309 may have certain advantages, being simpler and with a separate headshell, firmly clamped to the arm-beam..
Interesting about the FR64S Guy. Roll on the vintage Gray tonearm resurrection I reckon :)
Hehehe... Tony Blackburn here we come! :D
Marco.
Rare Bird
02-08-2012, 10:43
Thats intresting.. i used my 'FR64S' with Garrard '401' but sold it to make way for Thorens 'TD124'/SME '3009'! Why! heavens know, their must have been a perfectly logical explination for such a brainwave at the time!!
I always found the '401' excelled in lower end performance where as the 'TD124' was slightly better at the top end..I probably chose the correct pick-Up arm combo in both cases.
Now i have a crap turntable which is a shame :lol:
hifi_dave
02-08-2012, 11:00
The FR-64S is still my favourite arm of all time. The style, fit n finish, ease of use and above all, the sound, put it in a very superior class.
I had the first one to hit these shores and we sold loads of them. At the time it wasn't outrageously expensive and most went on Oracle or the original Systemdek.
Them were the days..:wheniwasaboy:
chris@panteg
02-08-2012, 11:03
The FR-64S is still my favourite arm of all time. The style, fit n finish, ease of use and above all, the sound, put it in a very superior class.
I had the first one to hit these shores and we sold loads of them. At the time it wasn't outrageously expensive and most went on Oracle or the original Systemdek.
Them were the days..:wheniwasaboy:
How much do they fetch these days Dave ? A good example that is .
hifi_dave
02-08-2012, 11:10
I haven't looked lately because I have a couple of them and am not searching for more. I haven't got around to mounting those on a turntable yet.
I'd be interested to know the current going price though.
The FR-64S is still my favourite arm of all time. The style, fit n finish, ease of use and above all, the sound, put it in a very superior class.
I had the first one to hit these shores and we sold loads of them. At the time it wasn't outrageously expensive and most went on Oracle or the original Systemdek.
Them were the days..:wheniwasaboy:
Yup, but its inferior detachable headshell must so limit its performance, eh, especially when outperforming SME Vs? ;)
Isn't it amazing what dogmatic, agenda-driven brainwashing can do to the gullible!
Marco.
chris@panteg
02-08-2012, 11:13
I haven't looked lately because I have a couple of them and am not searching for more. I haven't got around to mounting those on a turntable yet.
I'd be interested to know the current going price though.
I do know when up for aution on fleabay ,the bidding is fierce especially from the far east ! Not peanuts that's for sure.
hifi_dave
02-08-2012, 11:13
Yup, but its inferior detachable headshell must so limit its performance, eh, especially when outperforming SME Vs? ;)
Marco.
I suppose it's one set of compromises v another. I certainly haven't got any issues with a properly executed detachable headshell - certainly would make my job a lot easier.
chris@panteg
02-08-2012, 11:16
Yup, but its inferior detachable headshell must so limit its performance, eh, especially when outperforming SME Vs? ;)
Isn't it amazing what dogmatic, agenda-driven brainwashing can do to the gullible!
Marco.
You ran a full Linn/Naim system once Marco ,am i right :whistle:
Just messing about :)
I certainly haven't got any issues with a properly executed detachable headshell - certainly would make my job a lot easier.
Neither have I, mate - in fact, I wouldn't use any other type of tonearm. The 'compromise' is a fallacy, simply because the sheer engineering quality of the tonearm, as a whole, outweighs any miniscule negative effect of the detachable headshell, when compared with the fixed headshell designs of inferior engineering quality, from rivals.
I think if you looked at my Ortofon RS-212D and your FR64S, side by side, you'd marvel at the engineering quality of both. They're quite similar in what they're designed to do.
For me, the three countries who frequently show the world how engineering should be done at its best, are Japan, Germany and Switzerland. One only has to look at their ultra high-end audio products to see ample evidence of this, which put many competing British products these days to shame.
Marco.
Rare Bird
02-08-2012, 11:25
How much do they fetch these days Dave ? A good example that is .
Mine was mint but didnt have the box because i originally bought it fitted to an Ariston RD11 'Superiour'. When i sold it years ago a German chap snatched my hand off for £500.00
You ran a full Linn/Naim system once Marco ,am i right :whistle:
Just messing about :)
Lol... Indeed, but unlike some, I've 'lived and learned', and progressed accordingly. Some are still stuck in a mindset from the 1980s! :rolleyes:
Marco.
Mine was mint but didnt have the box because i originally bought it fitted to an Ariston RD11 'Superiour'. When i sold it years ago a German chap snatched my hand off for £500.00
Great turntable, mate. To my ears, far better than an LP12! ;)
Marco.
Rare Bird
02-08-2012, 11:42
Just to make sure were on the same wavelength..It's the RD11 'Superior' version not the standard 'RD11' or 'RD11S'
I think you used to have the 'RD11S' didnt you? (The one with the round armboard but simulated long armboard) I also had one of these..
Beobloke
02-08-2012, 12:02
Yup, but its inferior detachable headshell must so limit its performance, eh, especially when outperforming SME Vs? ;)
Not quite Marco - it's the fact that it's S-shaped (ish) that makes it inferior to the SME - as we all know, straight arms are much better than bendy ones!
;)
pure sound
02-08-2012, 14:45
I think I paid about £850 for my FR64S from a UK seller earlier this year. Most of those that do appear on ebay seem to be fetching nearer £1000 at the moment. I was quite pleased on getting mine to find that it had the more substantial mounting collar from the 64fx. The 64S collar looks a little flimsy by comparison in the pics I've seen.
It is a heavy arm though, best suited to low compliance MC's. I wouldn't expect it to be the best match with many higher compliance MM's. I expect there might be other arms that could do that better.
Just to make sure were on the same wavelength..It's the RD11 'Superior' version not the standard 'RD11' or 'RD11S'
I think you used to have the 'RD11S' didnt you? (The one with the round armboard but simulated long armboard) I also had one of these..
It was an RD11 'Superior' I had, which I thought was another name for an 'RD11S' - the 'S' bit referring to 'Superior'.
What's the difference, dude, between an RD11S and an RD11 'Superior'? :scratch:
Marco.
Not quite Marco - it's the fact that it's S-shaped (ish) that makes it inferior to the SME - as we all know, straight arms are much better than bendy ones!
;)
Lol... However, in some instances, it's useful to have a nice 'bendy banana'! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
14-09-2012, 18:41
Right I'm selling this Alphason deck and I'm going to be including my Technoarm as well. If anyone is interested then please send me a PM, again photo's will follow shortly!
Andy
In terms of design the HR100s is still a very pure design - the armtube and headshell are significantly stiffer than that of any SME arm (and most modern state of the art arms).
"crumbled virtually to dust" really - I have to say, that sounds very unlikely! I've never encountered any bearing crumble to dust - particularly when loaded as lightly as arm bearings are. If there was so much pressure that the bearings were damaged the friction would have been huge (relatively)!
The HR100s (and the Xenon, I think) was fitted with ceramic ball bearings. The extreme hardness of these was part of the reason for the brilliant performance of the arm, but they were vulnerable to shock damage, and could indeed crumble under certain circumstances.
There was an HR100s on Ebay last week, lacking it's mountimg collar and with a dubious rewire. Still went for the best part of £320.
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