View Full Version : Linn Basik tonearms
Canetoad
26-07-2012, 09:53
I'm just curious which Linn Basik tonearms are generally considered better. S-shaped LVV or the LVX?
Any of you guys had any experience? I'm considering what tonearms I can use on a Lenco GL75 project if I don't use the standard arm.
walpurgis
26-07-2012, 10:02
Depends largely what cartridge you will be using. The LVV with a decent rigid headshell would be OK with lower compliance moving coils and the LVX can cope with somewhat higher compliance cartridges. A Rega arm, or Rega derived arm would give better results at a sensible price though. The GL75 is a capable device and worthy of a decent arm.
As you lot should know by now, I sold all of the basiks and used the LVV at home on an LP12 for a while in between Ittoks...
The LVV is fine with many medium compliance cartridges and in fact the lightweight jelco shell it came with breaks up resonances in the structure very well. Just sticking a more rigid shell on *can* make it worse in this particular application, as I found to my cost. Also, the thin rubber ring around the headshell plug is there for a genuine reason and shouldn't be discarded, not on this arm at any rate... Trying to use a cartridge with lower compliance and higher cost will not be an economic thing I feel with this arm. Just stick to AT's, Stanton 681EEE, Shures with damper fitted and high compliance Ortofons (2M red/Blue, 520-540 and OM20 - OM40 for example and probably mid priced Nagaoka's too :)). By now, many LVV's will be shagged and possibly too frail for AO Johnnie to properly service - may be worth asking him..
LVX - A potentially good medium mass tonearm this one, but the headshell socket is a definite weak point as the clamping bolt was always overtightened by Linnie dealers trained to do such things and the socket works loose with disastrous sonic results. I found that using loc-tite studlock in the gap around the socket and tube (the green stuff used to lock tape head screws) sorts it out once the screws are re-tightened carefully. The squidgy counterweight decoupling will have gone off by now and I don't think it's fixable (I'd love to be shown wrong here though). if the counterweight spins freely on the end stub, you've had it.
Same goes for the Basik Plus (not LVX Plus as some have called it). This arm in fine fettle should be about as good as the straight-tubed Jelco and with a similar sound I think. Lively, lean and "fresh" in balance, it's a good all-rounder for budget to mid price mm type cartridges and possibly some of the more tolerant mc types too. The counterweight thing is an issue too.
All of the above three tonearms have the bias setting a tad too much (witnessed by many lop-sided worn K9 styli I examined) and the lightweight construction could cause bearing damage after years of over-tightening pillar bolts etc... I'd personally give them a miss these days unless you're able to check them first. Free-spinning counterweights are a definite no-no for best sonics also and I don't think Linn support these jelco made arms now, since the 'orrible grainy sounding Akito thingy came out in mk1 form well over twenty years ago now!
My advice is to look elsewhere to the evergreen Rega arms. the R200 can now have its bias restored by Johnnie at Audio Origami and its a FAR better tonearm than the cheap-as-chips LVV, if limited in adjustability; the RB series is readily supported by Rega, can be botched to high heaven with suspect aftermarket add-ons (and Rega will repair badly botched ones for a fee) and can be made to sound great if you know what you're doing, although turntable synergy is essential with these.
Does this lecture help? Not sure if Pro-Ject have ever released one of their better arms to maket separately or how much it would cost...
camtwister
26-07-2012, 11:06
I guess that Bernie has asked about Linn arms because they have similar enough geometry to the stock issue to be a direct replacement, given some elementary arm tube work.
Bernie, if you can find a Basik Plus in good condition for about £75, I don't think you'd be disappointed using a MM up to Ortofon 2M Blue / Nagaoka MP150 standards.
Depending on your priorities, the S-shaped earlier variant would better suit a modified GL75 if the aesthetics are kept similar to the original.
SQ and upgrade paths are more easily marked if you take the Rega route, but this will involve significant surgery to your Lenco.
Canetoad
26-07-2012, 11:40
I didn't want to have to hack up the plinth to fit a Rega arm. Would the RB200 fit in the standard position?
Apparently RB250-300 don't. :doh:
camtwister
26-07-2012, 11:54
No, the R200 will not fit in the standard GL position, nor will any Rega arm that I'm aware of.
Hence, the popularity of the Linn LVV/LVX series as a cost effective second hand choice for the GL75.
Do you have an aftermarket plinth cut for the standard geometry? Or is it the top-plate that you don't wish to take the grinder to?
Canetoad
26-07-2012, 12:37
Top plate. Not initially anyway.
You're going to trash a GL75 with a LINN BASIK ARM?????
FFS WHY??????????????
Ah, because "everyone" says that stock arm is rubbish. That's because Joe Bloggs says so and he tried to use an ADC XLM in one back in the mid 70's when ultra lightweight resonant SME's were all the rage....
I'd MUCH rather have a stock Lenco 75 arm with new exit leads and fittefd with a 2M than ANY Linn arm under a mint condition Ittok, but then, what do I know :)
camtwister
26-07-2012, 14:53
OK, so assuming that you don't have enough space (or the desire) to mount an arm on your current plinth, leaving the top-plate unaltered, and that you wish to mount an arm in the existing cut-out of the original top-plate, then you can choose from arms with -
pivot to spindle distance: 211 mm
effective length: 229 mm
and if you screw your cartridge down using 24 degrees offset and 18mm overhang, you can align to Baerwald.
The obvious choice is from the Linn range, the exact model dependent upon how far from the shore you ultimately wish to swim. If you want to get mystic and esoteric, you could search for an Alphason or a Syrinx, and afterwards write a book about your experiences.
I've modified three GL75s, and used a Basik Plus when retaining the original top-plate. I never felt bullied or under pressure to change the Linn arm, until I had an extra-marital affair with rosewood plinths and bespoke top plates and was ultimately divorced from much of the Lenco apart from the motor and platter. Albeit, I did flirt with the LVV because a curvy one does it for me in places that a straight one can't reach.
You're going to trash a GL75 with a LINN BASIK ARM?????
FFS WHY??????????????
If you have to ask, you'll never know.
The stock Lenco arm isn't *that* good though and its even older than the Linn and could be in worse shape. Would the Jelco 750D fit? its the same effective length but calls for a 214mm pivot to spindle distance.
You're not listening folks, not at all.........
Pray tell, whats WRONG with the Lenco tonearm that new V blocks and a re-wire won't cure? I mean, has anyone in the world actually tested the thing for bad resonances? Maybe the lower midrange ones won't be as good as a bloody Basik arm, but I bet the L75 arm is cleaner at higher frequencies.
I'm asking because I think people who totally destroy a good existing deck are nuts if they honestly think a Linn basik arm is actually better than a properly sorted L75 arm, especially with modern cartridges that prefer a bit of mass for them to perform at their best. The vast majority of basik arms are twenty five to thirty years old now, they are NOT built like a jelco 750, nor are they built to SME standards. The bearings may well be shagged due to decades of rough handling, the pillars can get crushed with over-tightening and this writes the arm off completely if done and the supplied cable will be fugged too with age, needing a £100 minimum replacement! I've yet to see an LVX at this age with a decent counterweight decoupling "rubber," as these always become almost gel like by now, and I don't think many Linn dealers will have spares, although these were part of the kits all dealers once carried.
As for the springy/saggy counterweight stub on an L75 arm-beam - that can easily be sorted if it's not broken.
Someone somewhere, if they think the L75 arm-beam with headshell is that awful, should fabricate a new pipe assembly of the correct diameter, drive a new V shaft through at the bearing end and use the existing horizontal bearings and bias assembly for ultimate convenience.
Seriously, if you want a bloomin' idler deck with separate arm, then save up for a proper one like a G88 or G99 which have proper cast top plates and not the increasingly thin bent steel ones and leave the old GL75's and 78's alone!
Oh well, I think some people need to discover just how good a decent GL75 can be when compared to its peers - which I've done many times incidentally, hence my strong feelings on this matter, stock arm and all. Same thing goes for the AR XA deck and an arm that's even worse on the face of it, let alone the TP13A used on the Thorens 150's. Don't know what you're missing folks :) Just get the right cartridge and enjoy the music on your records :D
P.S. Someone I know seriously considered making a one-piece cast plinth cum chassis for the Lenco drive system, which would have lifted the performance no end I reckon. Sadly, he tells me he was severely warned off by Lenco, who are still around........
My G99 came with a Lenco arm, it was in good mechanical order too....it's just not that good sounding... :confused:
Did you sort the tonearm exit wiring before junking it? What was the plinth like, since these decks stand or fall depending what theyre mounted on or in? Did you use dezmo V blocks and tame the springy counterweight? What cartridge did you use?
camtwister
26-07-2012, 21:33
Hello Dave,
Your (valid) argument about the deterioration of the Linn arms also applies to the Lenco component and, as Neal stated, is more likely to be of concern considering that the Swiss bits are potentially a decade or so older.
In my experience (which is piddling compared to yours), all of the stock arms on the nine individual Lenco decks that I've played with in the past three years required significant work.
Faced with the prospect of restoring these arms or finding a Linn substitute, I mulled over the issue above and also that it's often straightforward to discover the provenance of a Linn tonearm but less so the Lenco, given that many GL75s were shoved into integrated devices that were seen as disposable or unsophisticated and treated accordingly.
I've had the opportunity to directly compare a stock player in good nick with a modified interloping Linn wearing upstart, attired with the same cartridge, and I prefered the custom machine. So do many of the members of Lenco Heaven, so I'm not hopelessly forsaken or unique in that opinion.
I propose that it's the G88 and 99 that should be left alone and the 75/78 fiddled with instead, especially as the pressed steel plate can be replaced with a PTP or similar and CLD plinths are not beyond the amateur.
However, what is more pertinent to me, is that refashioning a GL75 is not about "destroying a good existing deck" nor "comparing the GL75 to its peers". It's about taking a cheap mass produced deck and modifying it so that it may embarrass its peers whilst I enjoy learning about the physics, discipline and lore of turntables.
It's about pottering about, making mistakes, participating in forums and educating oneself whilst listening to music and relaxing from the stresses of keeping the boss off my back and the mortgage lender agreeable. It's about the thrill of making a unique vinyl spinning device that costs little, reflects my disposition and pulls the birds.
Here's a nice fix for the counterweight issue that I tried a few years ago on a troublesome Basik+ I had fitted on a Thorens TD316 and it works. This fix was posted on VE by Embee:
This is something I've just dealt with on my Basik LVX. My interest in vinyl was recently rekindled and I dusted off the TT to play some vinyl for the first time in a year or so. It sounded pretty indifferent, worse than I remembered.
On closer inspection I found the counterweight wasn't advancing along the arm tube when trying to set the tracking weight. On removing the counterweight it was clear that the plastic sleeve was a very loose fit on the tube and the small pip inside it no longer engaged with the spiral groove. The reason was that the "rubber" isolation had turned to the consistency of sticky mastic.
I dismantled the weight. The tricky bit was removing the graduated disc on the front, there are 2 very small grub screws radially which go into a groove round the edge of the disc. I filed down a small driver bit to fit and gave them a very light tap with a small hammer to break whatever "glue" was holding them (maybe a lacquer, certainly nothing as strong as a threadlok compound) and they came out with a jewellers screwdriver.
The plastic sleeve is split along its length with a flange at each end, the weight itself is undercut inside the bore to leave a similar matching lip at each end, the net result is that the rubber is "trapped" and can't move axially.
Once I'd discovered how it was made, I simply eased a small screwdriver down the rubber to break the light bond, and was able to close the plastic sleeve enough to withdraw it and pull out the sticky rubber.
I measured the armtube at 9.0mm near enough, and the diameter over the plastic sleeve when fitted to the arm was 9.85mm. The bore of the weight was 14.0mm so I needed some rubber just slightly over 2.0mm thick to wrap a new bush.
On this diameter I found wrapping 2.0mm thick rubber resulted in deformed ends and a mis-shapen bush, so I found an old bicycle inner tube (actually very good quality rubber) which was close to 1.0mm thick. I cut two pieces and installed one into the weight bore, no glue was used. The second was then fitted with the join at 180deg to give a more even shape. The plastic sleeve was then pinched inwards and carefully slipped into the bore and opened out. The result looked very neat, the rubber is barely noticeable.
The disc was refitted with a spot of grease to stick it to the weight and the grub screws refitted (without glue at this stage). Unfortunately I didn't atke any photos, otherwise I'd post them up, but if you go in there it's pretty simple.
The weight was now a quite tight fit on the arm tube, possibly too tight I thought, but gave it a try anyway.
The result was little short of miraculous. The Glanz MC cartridge had never struck me as very informative, but suddenly it was full of detail, tight bass with all the bass notes clear and separate (never had been before), and the soundstage was expanded and instruments were individual and nuanced. I still find it a touch harsh and edgy though, just like it always was, so that's probably just a characteristic.
Wow, wish I'd done the repair before, this has been such a simple (cheap) fix and it's lifted the sound to a new standard.
I suggest anyone with a Linn Basik LVX type arm to check the weight sleeve, if it's a sloppy fit on the tube and/or the rubber is tacky, try this repair, you'll be amazed. :)
sq225917
26-07-2012, 22:19
My G99 came with a Lenco arm, it was crap, even when re-wired.
More to the point the Lenco arm looks exactly like the thing that Edison used to play back 'Mary had a Little Lamb' to his mates and even way back then they were pointing and nudging each other when his back was turned. Do you want all your pals laughing at your tonearm? Do you? 'Cause that's what'll happen.
The fact that you're playing gramophone records at all is edison enough for many people these days :lol:
Not sure if Pro-Ject have ever released one of their better arms to maket separately or how much it would cost...
Yes - they do sell them - and use Linn geometry. The current 9 is £310 (http://www.divineaudio.co.uk/hi-fi/turntable-parts-and-accessories/pro-ject-9-tonearm/prod_194.html), in fetching carbon fibre... :)
http://www.divineaudio.co.uk/images/uploads/products/Pro-ject/Carbon%209%20Tonearm.jpg
Has anyone used one of these in a non-Pro-ject or Linn mode? Might be a Rega alternative for a techie and an easy upgrade for lenco/LVX owners :lol:
Audioman
31-07-2012, 16:04
Has anyone used one of these in a non-Pro-ject or Linn mode? Might be a Rega alternative for a techie and an easy upgrade for lenco/LVX owners :lol:
No but they are bound to better a Linn Basic Plus. My main objection to the LBP arms is their ability to handle the energy from a MC was marginal. May have been responsible for a coil failure in the ATF5 I used for a while on a Linn Axis. Looks a good bet where Linn mounting/geometry is prefered and at the price a better bet than a now aging used arm.
The old F5 likes a Rega RB300 and the two gel well on a Spacedeck. Thanks for the vibes on this, as i think this arm has been unfairly? overlooked by myself and possibly others. It needs to be used successfully on a Techie here (one of those sexy ebony armboards too?) to be truly kosher :D but hopefully the arm rest gantry thingy won't foul the top plate as the SME ones can, depending on mat...
Rare Bird
16-09-2013, 20:02
This is an old thread but ive just acquired a J.A Michell 'Focus One' for my disabled friend {cos he likes to copy off me} :lol: However he can't afford the SME '3009' i have on mine, but fear not i have provided him with a Linn 'LVV' i took from one of my 'Focus' decks.
He wants to continue using his old trusty but cheap Technics 'EPC-U25' (Very low compliance} cartridge till funds come up for a good cartridge. I removed the original headshell & fitted a lighter vintage shell cos i like to defy the norm :eyebrows: . well the results are quite suprising actually.
He loves it & i say i prefer it to the AR 'EB101' he replaced & that's him stone deaf anorl :lol: so it shows you it does not cost a fortune to make very good sounds, nor do you have to follow whats written in stone ;), it certainly sounds better than his CDP imho..
LVX - A potentially good medium mass tonearm this one, but the headshell socket is a definite weak point as the clamping bolt was always overtightened by Linnie dealers trained to do such things and the socket works loose with disastrous sonic results. I found that using loc-tite studlock in the gap around the socket and tube (the green stuff used to lock tape head screws) sorts it out once the screws are re-tightened carefully. The squidgy counterweight decoupling will have gone off by now and I don't think it's fixable (I'd love to be shown wrong here though). if the counterweight spins freely on the end stub, you've had it.
It is possible to replace the squidgy rubber in an LVX counterweight with a replacement cut from a bicycle inner tube. Below is a 'How To' fix lifted from another forum:
This is something I've just dealt with on my Basik LVX. My interest in vinyl was recently rekindled and I dusted off the TT to play some vinyl for the first time in a year or so. It sounded pretty indifferent, worse than I remembered.
On closer inspection I found the counterweight wasn't advancing along the arm tube when trying to set the tracking weight. On removing the counterweight it was clear that the plastic sleeve was a very loose fit on the tube and the small pip inside it no longer engaged with the spiral groove. The reason was that the "rubber" isolation had turned to the consistency of sticky mastic.
I dismantled the weight. The tricky bit was removing the graduated disc on the front, there are 2 very small grub screws radially which go into a groove round the edge of the disc. I filed down a small driver bit to fit and gave them a very light tap with a small hammer to break whatever "glue" was holding them (maybe a lacquer, certainly nothing as strong as a threadlok compound) and they came out with a jewellers screwdriver.
The plastic sleeve is split along its length with a flange at each end, the weight itself is undercut inside the bore to leave a similar matching lip at each end, the net result is that the rubber is "trapped" and can't move axially.
Once I'd discovered how it was made, I simply eased a small screwdriver down the rubber to break the light bond, and was able to close the plastic sleeve enough to withdraw it and pull out the sticky rubber.
I measured the armtube at 9.0mm near enough, and the diameter over the plastic sleeve when fitted to the arm was 9.85mm. The bore of the weight was 14.0mm so I needed some rubber just slightly over 2.0mm thick to wrap a new bush.
On this diameter I found wrapping 2.0mm thick rubber resulted in deformed ends and a mis-shapen bush, so I found an old bicycle inner tube (actually very good quality rubber) which was close to 1.0mm thick. I cut two pieces and installed one into the weight bore, no glue was used. The second was then fitted with the join at 180deg to give a more even shape. The plastic sleeve was then pinched inwards and carefully slipped into the bore and opened out. The result looked very neat, the rubber is barely noticeable.
The disc was refitted with a spot of grease to stick it to the weight and the grub screws refitted (without glue at this stage). Unfortunately I didn't atke any photos, otherwise I'd post them up, but if you go in there it's pretty simple.
The weight was now a quite tight fit on the arm tube, possibly too tight I thought, but gave it a try anyway.
The result was little short of miraculous. The Glanz MC cartridge had never struck me as very informative, but suddenly it was full of detail, tight bass with all the bass notes clear and separate (never had been before), and the soundstage was expanded and instruments were individual and nuanced. I still find it a touch harsh and edgy though, just like it always was, so that's probably just a characteristic.
Wow, wish I'd done the repair before, this has been such a simple (cheap) fix and it's lifted the sound to a new standard.
I suggest anyone with a Linn Basik LVX type arm to check the weight sleeve, if it's a sloppy fit on the tube and/or the rubber is tacky, try this repair, you'll be amazed.
Oldpinkman
17-09-2013, 05:17
This is an old thread but ive just acquired a J.A Michell 'Focus One' for my disabled friend {cos he likes to copy off me} :lol: However he can't afford the SME '3009' i have on mine, but fear not i have provided him with a Linn 'LVV' i took from one of my 'Focus' decks.
He wants to continue using his old trusty but cheap Technics 'EPC-U25' (Very low compliance} cartridge till funds come up for a good cartridge. I removed the original headshell & fitted a lighter vintage shell cos i like to defy the norm :eyebrows: . well the results are quite suprising actually.
He loves it & i say i prefer it to the AR 'EB101' he replaced & that's him stone deaf anorl :lol: so it shows you it does not cost a fortune to make very good sounds, nor do you have to follow whats written in stone ;), it certainly sounds better than his CDP imho..
If that's a u205 and it needs a good home, let me know.
Oldpinkman
17-09-2013, 05:23
My G99 came with a Lenco arm, it was crap, even when re-wired.
Crap is clearly a relative term. My pink triangle was supplied with an lvv (and the shocking awful cartridge) which came with it. What can I say? Of all the arms I have used over the years the lvv is the one I would give up vinyl and listen to mp3s for.
Rare Bird
17-09-2013, 12:11
It don't sound bad to my ears..Something must be wrong & it aint me :lol:
I was quite fond of the LVX I owned, good little arm that and very easy to set up. The counterweight on mine wasn't full of bitumen either which was a bonus. In fact both the arm and the Thorens TD316 it was attached to had been very well looked after and both were in fine fettle :)
Oldpinkman
17-09-2013, 15:19
It don't sound bad to my ears..Something must be wrong & it aint me :lol:
No - probably not. I think a little is my aspect of "HiFi fetishism" referred to in the article Gordon posted recently. I may not be a fantasist, or bling craver, but if I have heard better I'm not very good at going back to less good. I just stop listening to records. And I have heard plenty better. It was built ok - but I have posted elsewhere, pretty much like any of a dozen Japanese clones - the sainted Techie being an obvious example of a basically pretty similar arm. you're losing a lot. A better arm will give you more in spades. Maybe at a price, but loads more. Really more. Not the sort of more you are not sure if you can hear, and wouldn't be prepared to prove in a blind test. JCB loads of more.
So the LVV doesn't light my fire. That Technics cartridge however, ... :)
Oldpinkman
17-09-2013, 15:22
It don't sound bad to my ears..Something must be wrong & it aint me :lol:
As for the cartridge - it was hand picked as the best of 10 supplied. I still have it in a shoe box I keep HiFi junk and clutter in if you want a really good laugh :lol:
Rare Bird
17-09-2013, 17:14
Put it this way it sounds no worse than my SME '3009S2Imp, in which i have absolutly no desire to change, British it's an SME of high construction of the era i want thats all i care about, it sounds like it sounds, i don't really care if anything sounding better & i suspect my buddy feels the same regarding his 'LVV'. I can assure you he nor i or missing anything.
LVVs (fitted with an Audio Technica MG10 magnesium headshell) sound great with Denon DL-103s :)
Marco.
400v on the anode
11-01-2016, 14:34
Coming somewhat late to this discussion I have to say that my experience of the Lenco arm is also not good even with wiring and V blocks sorted. I did find that the headshell of the GL78 slighly better than the solid one in the GL75 and have concluded that the main weakness is the headshell rather than the arm and bearings as it has too many components and is very resonant.
I have a GL75 which I fitted with a SME series 3 and this is superb and walks all over many decks I have heard, I also have a GL78 fitted with a good (as opposed to tired) Linn LVX and this is also far better than it's original lenco arm.
Sometime ago I experimented with an older L75 by fitting it with the arm off of an old Pioneer PL12D (the deck of which had bearings which were completely shot) claimed at the time to be capable of taking a Shure V15 III this combination is not bad either and certainly better than the Lenco arm and my girlfriend now has this in her system.
pcourtney
04-04-2016, 22:49
I have a GL75 which I fitted with a SME series 3 and this is superb and walks all over many decks I have heard, I also have a GL78 fitted with a good LVX and this is also far better than it's original lenco arm.
ECHO THAT :-) the SME IIIs I have on my GL75 is so good, that I am now pretty sure I no longer need to keep chasing that extra little bit of SQ
I may have to take the LV X arm I have on an old Linn Axis and put it on a GL78 or this other GL75 I have that needs some TLC :-)
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