View Full Version : Rega RS3 phase plugs off centre?
At a recent get together at my gaff, one of the guys pointed out that the phase plugs on both the drivers on one of my speakers was off centre.
Must admit, I hadn't noticed till he said!
I don't know if this is a problem or not, if it is can it be easily fixed if need be?
Obviously you don't want one speaker sounding "different" to the other, just wondering if its a concern.
The speakers were bought 2nd hand a year old and were in minty condition, so no idea what might have caused this.
One of those things that can niggle at the back of your mind I guess.... :scratch:
ASK REGA and maybe email them a close-up photo of the afflicted unit. If the cone isn't rubbing, then it's a visual issue only, but if Rega got it wrong in manufacture, then they deserve to know, don't you think?
When these things are made, a thin plastic tube with a cut down the length to enable a tight fit is slid over the centre pole piece. the pre assembled coil/cone/suspension assembly is then gently slid over this and glued in position, the plastic inner keeping everything centered up nicely while the glue sets. The "phase plug" is often then fitted at the same time and if there's a mm of movement, this may just explain things. I VERY much doubt there's any sonic difference whatsoever here, but since these are second hand and if it troubles you, ASK REGA if they can help. I'm sure they could direct you to a good local dealer who should be willing to help you. The aforesaid dealer should have the drive unit removal tool Rega make and if they damage the speaker in repairing it, well, it's up to them isn't it?
Ali Tait
20-07-2012, 10:46
Should've kept my gob shut. :D
Not at all. It's just that if the cones and coils aren't rubbing, it isn't a big deal unless the visuals are becoming an issue. Rega are not oblivious to this you know :)
hifi_dave
20-07-2012, 12:01
It's nothing but a minor visual issue and if they sound good, that proves it.
Your first course of action should have been to contact your local Rega dealer or Rega direct if there isn't one in your vicinity.
Thanks guys,
Good info.
Sent Paul Darwin from Rega a PM about it over on Pinkfish.
Will see what he says.
Darwin's ok, a good ole boy! Dave W and I know him extremely well :lol: I'll send him an email if you don't have any luck..
Got a response back good guy. :)
Hi Gary, It is not possible for the phase plug to be off centre simply because it is mounted as a tight push fit on the pole piece. It is more likely the cone is off centre or a deformed coil assembly (caused by being overdriven) making it look like the phase plug is poorly aligned. It is really tricky without seeing it, it would need to be inspected by our guys at HQ to be absolutely sure.
The speakers have never been overdriven, the guy who sold me them used a Brio 3 and I've only ever used low wattage Tripath amps and Rega Brio R.
So not sure...
Speakers sound great but Ive felt sometimes that the other speaker sounds different..maybe a bit less focussed, bit quieter maybe?
And yeah...this was before Ali pointed it out! ;-)
Wondering if this could be it?
brian2957
20-07-2012, 18:09
Hi Mate , are they giving you the option of sending them back for inspection .
Ali Tait
20-07-2012, 20:01
It may if they were used with low power amps, the amps may have been forced into clipping which might have resulted in damage.
Clipping amps, in my experience, blow tweeters, not bass units, unless they've been "popped" and you'd soon know if they were damaged this way.
Pics please!!!!!
hifi_dave
21-07-2012, 09:43
The speakers have never been overdriven, the guy who sold me them used a Brio 3 and I've only ever used low wattage Tripath amps and Rega Brio R.
You can damage a speaker with 5w if it's over-driven.
Will post a couple of pics Monday, thanks guys.
Ill ask Paul D what he reckons too and what the best solution is moving forward.
You can damage a speaker with 5w if it's over-driven.
Hi Dave,
sorry for being thick, but how can 5w overdrive a speaker rated for 100w? :scratch:
THIS DAVE says that a clipping amp gives a flat continuous voltage into the speaker. bass units can just about take it for short periods until the coil adhesives melt, but tweeters can't. I can't tell you how many speakers we had in on a monday after a weekend of partying. Some Mission speakers had molten terminal/crossover blocks too, where the crossover coils/resistors had heated up so much (the crossovers were mounted in a soft plastic moulding with the 4mm terminals as well, the whole screwed into a hole in the back of the speaker).
The thing about parties is that many speakers are playing into a load of people's bodies, which absorb the sound. Up goes the volume in proportion to the alcohol consumed and "bingo," you've blown a tweeter or two. Some of these go open circuit, others go short, and the amp then blows shortly after......
hifi_dave
22-07-2012, 18:41
That about sums it up..:exactly:
Thanks for that guys.
Not a party animal with my system at best of times (AND I live in a flat) so volumes never mega loud. Also, I've only ever fed them with quality amps so...
The guy who sold me the speakers was of a similar ilk, but...you can never say for sure when buying 2nd hand.
Apparently they were a year old when I bought them, so I'm going to contact the seller (If I saved the PMs for the sale!) and ask him more about it.
Speakers sounding great have to say so fingers crossed its just a cosmetic issue. :)
Seriously, if it was more than cosmetic, you'd clearly hear it..
sq225917
23-07-2012, 12:53
If they've been loved by someone who loves their bass driven tunes there's no reason why the mids couldn't be solely affected by over heating voice coils. As stated low powered amps more likely to do this by clipping than big amps and 'true' over driving.
Some Pics:
Front Driver
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/341/20120723103750.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/140/20120723103750.jpg/)
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8676/20120723103811.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/20120723103811.jpg/)
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/6219/20120723103832.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/20120723103832.jpg/)
Side Driver
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9528/20120723103914.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/20120723103914.jpg/)
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6199/20120723103928.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/20120723103928.jpg/)
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/5871/20120723103944.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/20120723103944.jpg/)
from comparison with my own these definately dont look right.. almost as if little fingers have been messing with them.
The other speaker is spot on, dead centre.
Rugrat free house here so still clueless. :scratch:
Would a dealer be able to replace the drive units you think, or will it be Rega only?
hifi_dave
24-07-2012, 11:05
A dealer with the necessary tools to remove the driver can do the job.
However, it's difficult to see what is wrong. The pole piece is in the centre of the magnet and voice coil. If the cone is off centre sufficient to be seen, the coil will rub and similarly with the pole piece. I'd like to see them close up.
Closeups
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2/20120724122856.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/140/20120724122856.jpg/)
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3272/20120724122749.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/20120724122749.jpg/)
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/355/20120724122725.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/20120724122725.jpg/)
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4766/20120724122611.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/215/20120724122611.jpg/)
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/5852/20120724122505.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/20120724122505.jpg/)
That's just the little plastic trim. Have you shown these pics to Paul Darwin? I'll send hi the link to this thread...
Hi Dave,
yeah i sent 'em over to Paul on Pinkfish.
I mentioned I had been asking for some help about this on AOS.
Would NOT want to mention anything wrong with Rega stuff on other forums...
speakers sounding great..just this wee issue.
hifi_dave
24-07-2012, 21:57
Cor, nipples.
For a second or two I thought I was on the wrong site..:scratch:
Ali Tait
24-07-2012, 22:05
Concur the speakers sounded good when I heard them, specially with the TQ Black..
Cor, nipples.
For a second or two I thought I was on the wrong site..:scratch:
See where your minds at Dave.... :flasher:
Was that speaker in direct sun? If not overheated by being driven hard, the heat from sun through glass may just have had an influence?
Gary, I think a direct conversation with someone is in order here, to put your mind at rest on the one hand, and to see if a fefurb (hopefully at modest cost) is in order here.
Was that speaker in direct sun? If not overheated by being driven hard, the heat from sun through glass may just have had an influence?
Gary, I think a direct conversation with someone is in order here, to put your mind at rest on the one hand, and to see if a fefurb (hopefully at modest cost) is in order here.
Actually thinking about it...
that speaker is nearest my big lounge window and gets direct sunlight.
The room gets quite warm with a greenhouse effect in the summer.
Had a PM from Paul Darwin who showed my photos and my comments around the guys at HQ and they are of the belief all is OK, as if there was any problems with the driver due to being overdriven it would be very obvious (as you and "other dave" said).
Quite reassuring to hear it from the man himself, very good of him to take the time. :)
...still curious what caused it though?
The visual side doesn't bother me so much, but you know what its like with those back of the mind niggles...:mental:
Am I right in saying the plugs have "dropped" a bit? On hot days like this I wonder if these can be gently persuaded to return to their central position?
hifi_dave
25-07-2012, 18:48
I believe the "plugs" are hard plastic domes which are a very tight fit on the end of the extended pole piece. I doubt that would soften in the sun unless you were on the Hubble..:smoking:
Then can they be straightened with care if "just" a push fit?
I believe the "plugs" are hard plastic domes which are a very tight fit on the end of the extended pole piece. I doubt that would soften in the sun unless you were on the Hubble..:smoking:
Yup, hard plastic...rock solid.
Seem separate from the cone itself.
Paul D from Rega reckon its from the speaker being overdriven, but should be ok as it would be OBVIOUS if there was a problem with the driver.
No chance of pushing it back I'm afraid.
Funny thing is the front driver is facing down, the side bass unit facing up!
Its a test to see how OCD I am, its gotta be! :)
Rega themselves say its not a problem, speaker sounds (really) great but still I fidget. :mental:
brian2957
25-07-2012, 20:23
Nooooooo !!:eek: Don't do it mate . STEP AWAY FROM THE SPEAKERS :lol:
Not a chance Brian :)
Leaving well alone.
brian2957
25-07-2012, 20:58
Forget about it and enjoy the music mate ;)
Well I for one wouldn't be able to resist rotating it 180 degrees upwards, just to match and to hope that gravity will eventually do its thing :D
Andrew
If the drivers are held in as the older models from just a few years ago are, damage will almost certainly be done to the cabinets if you try to lever them out (they're all but stuck in place) without Rega's special tool for the job - good job they had a mechanical engineer in their employ to deal with the dedicated and expensive tooling for the arms, cartridges etc... who designed such things. Even the spanners for RB250/300/600 and the main bearing were custom jobbies..
hifi_dave
26-07-2012, 10:00
Yup, hard plastic...rock solid.
Seem separate from the cone itself.
Paul D from Rega reckon its from the speaker being overdriven, but should be ok as it would be OBVIOUS if there was a problem with the driver.
No chance of pushing it back I'm afraid.
Funny thing is the front driver is facing down, the side bass unit facing up!
Its a test to see how OCD I am, its gotta be! :)
Rega themselves say its not a problem, speaker sounds (really) great but still I fidget. :mental:
To summarise: It is a hard plastic cover fitted to the end of the Pole piece to make it look neater. In theory, it could be knocked off and replaced but that might cause more damage than it's worth.
It has probably moved because of hard driving for long periods. The heat of the Sun or nearby radiators won't do it. I've never seen it happen but that is the most likely cause.
The lop sided covers won't affect the sound at all and it's up to you if you want to spend more money and take the trouble to get the drivers replaced.
Personally, I would replace the grilles and forget it.
Great explanation Dave, understand now that the phase plug isn't a "waveguide" or some-such that affects the sound of the driver.
Doesn't affect the sound at all..all I needed to hear.
I cant see the difference between both speakers from where I sit so its not an issue visually unless I get up close to the speaker, so its not a problem.
My concern was one speaker might be impaired compared to the other - its not - so I'm not worried.
Thanks for all your input guys, appreciated.
Gaz.
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