View Full Version : SL 1200/1210 PSU comparison
Has anyone ever got the chance to compare the PSUs available for the Technics deck, like the Timestep, the MCrU, the Vantage Audio and the one from Paul Hynes? What were your thoughts or conclusions and which should be the best performance per pound upgrade from the bunch?
Also, has anyone tried to simply remove the internal PSU and place it an external box and compared it to one of the commercial external PSU from above?
Spectral Morn
19-07-2012, 15:53
Has anyone ever got the chance to compare the PSUs available for the Technics deck, like the Timestep, the MCrU, the Vantage Audio and the one from Paul Hynes? What were your thoughts or conclusions and which should be the best performance per pound upgrade from the bunch?
Also, has anyone tried to simply remove the internal PSU and place it an external box and compared it to one of the commercial external PSU from above?
Yes and still working on it. I had hoped to have this done a few weeks ago and indeed I did make a very interesting start at it but in order to finish I am still waiting for two psu's to come to me. I don't want to say more as I think to do so at this stage would only give half of the picture as there are factors I think at play which might make things a bit more complex than I had first thought. Lets just say I have possibly (note I say possibly) encountered a synergy issue that while a no brainer elsewhere in the hifi chain has so far to date, not I think, been mentioned before in context of modding Technics turntables. I won't be drawn more on this, at this stage, because without further broader exploration what I have found so far might be a blip and not consistent elsewhere. In other words I really don't want to say something that might latter be proven to be incorrect.
If one of the expected PSUs arrives soon (I hope) then I can put this phase of my Technics review project to bed fairly quickly.
Such are the issues with reviewing lots of bits and bobs from many diverse sources.
Be patient, it will be worth it.
JazzBones
19-07-2012, 17:09
Yes and still working on it. I had hoped to have this done a few weeks ago and indeed I did make a very interesting start at it but in order to finish I am still waiting for two psu's to come to me. I don't want to say more as I think to do so at this stage would only give half of the picture as there are factors I think at play which might make things a bit more complex than I had first thought. Lets just say I have possibly (note I say possibly) encountered a synergy issue that while a no brainer elsewhere in the hifi chain has so far to date, not I think, been mentioned before in context of modding Technics turntables. I won't be drawn more on this, at this stage, because without further broader exploration what I have found so far might be a blip and not consistent elsewhere. In other words I really don't want to say something that might latter be proven to be incorrect.
If one of the expected PSUs arrives soon (I hope) then I can put this phase of my Technics review project to bed fairly quickly.
Such are the issues with reviewing lots of bits and bobs from many diverse sources.
Be patient, it will be worth it.
Neil, you have an (un)enviable job with this PSU comparison but I've delayed de-commissioning my TS HE psu until I can be guided, to a degree, by your trials. The upper echelons on here on techy psu appear, to us lesser mortals, to hold the Paul Hynes psu in very high esteem and in high praise thereof, but those of us without a high disposable income, have to go the VFM and the best bang for the buck route so an evaluation such as you have undertaken means alot. Also, a potential buyer has to factor in his/her skill ability to fit and forget the psu without fear of blowing up a hard to replace PCB or to add to the initial cost of the PSU having to be shipped to a third party with know how and ability to do the job for you thus adding additional cost for their time and skill. Not all of us have a close at hand skilled in the art buddy to do the job for you and for free.
Meanwhile, praise to you for taking this job on and by the way was it you who had to contend with flooding as well?
Ron
PS I am aware that Richard of VA actually comes to your home and will fit everything for you, and the bloke lives in Somerset to boot, thats service of the old school for you.
Stratmangler
19-07-2012, 17:15
Also, has anyone tried to simply remove the internal PSU and place it an external box and compared it to one of the commercial external PSU from above?
Yes and no respectively.
Sticking the internal PSU into an external box brought a definite increase in resolution, and is highly recommended.
The Vinyl Adventure
19-07-2012, 17:31
That's gotta be a long while coming Neil!
Looking forward to reading that!
Wakefield Turntables
19-07-2012, 19:04
Neil, you have an (un)enviable job with this PSU comparison but I've delayed de-commissioning my TS HE psu until I can be guided, to a degree, by your trials. The upper echelons on here on techy psu appear, to us lesser mortals, to hold the Paul Hynes psu in very high esteem and in high praise thereof, but those of us without a high disposable income, have to go the VFM and the best bang for the buck route so an evaluation such as you have undertaken means alot. Also, a potential buyer has to factor in his/her skill ability to fit and forget the psu without fear of blowing up a hard to replace PCB or to add to the initial cost of the PSU having to be shipped to a third party with know how and ability to do the job for you thus adding additional cost for their time and skill. Not all of us have a close at hand skilled in the art buddy to do the job for you and for free.
Meanwhile, praise to you for taking this job on and by the way was it you who had to contend with flooding as well?
Ron
PS I am aware that Richard of VA actually comes to your home and will fit everything for you, and the bloke lives in Somerset to boot, thats service of the old school for you.
Lots of fair points. The PSU's are generally very very easy to install, just dont try internal regulations. :lol: Learn from my mistakes. ;)
Spectral Morn
19-07-2012, 22:34
Neil, you have an (un)enviable job with this PSU comparison but I've delayed de-commissioning my TS HE psu until I can be guided, to a degree, by your trials. The upper echelons on here on techy psu appear, to us lesser mortals, to hold the Paul Hynes psu in very high esteem and in high praise thereof, but those of us without a high disposable income, have to go the VFM and the best bang for the buck route so an evaluation such as you have undertaken means alot. Also, a potential buyer has to factor in his/her skill ability to fit and forget the psu without fear of blowing up a hard to replace PCB or to add to the initial cost of the PSU having to be shipped to a third party with know how and ability to do the job for you thus adding additional cost for their time and skill. Not all of us have a close at hand skilled in the art buddy to do the job for you and for free.
Meanwhile, praise to you for taking this job on and by the way was it you who had to contend with flooding as well?
Ron
PS I am aware that Richard of VA actually comes to your home and will fit everything for you, and the bloke lives in Somerset to boot, thats service of the old school for you.
Hi Ron
Thankfully my house didn't flood but it came close had a few other issues to contend with recently which has delayed things a bit but I have a number of PSUs here and the means to listen to them all regardless of type of connection and I have done some listening.
Spectral Morn
19-07-2012, 22:36
That's gotta be a long while coming Neil!
Looking forward to reading that!
Yes indeed Hamish it is but I want it to be right, with the correct ground work set in place and it has been that which has taken awhile to set up and get right.
I have three Technics decks now in place, numerous arms, power supplies + carts and platter mats etc and hopefully soon another platter to compare.
Neil, you need to hear an SR7 (in conjunction with Paul's reg mods) before you can come to any meaningful conclusion on just how influential the best external PSUs are in allowing the Techy to realise its full sonic potential.
Trust me, until you've heard that, all the other solutions (in comparison) are 'Toytown'. Of course, much depends on your budget, but if you want the best......
Anyway, I look forward to reading your impressions in due course! :cool:
Marco.
Hi Pedro,
I'll answer your question properly tomorrow. Just off to bed! :)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
19-07-2012, 23:03
Neil, you need to hear an SR7 (in conjunction with Paul's reg mods) before you can come to any meaningful conclusion on just how influential the best external PSUs are in allowing the Techy to realise its full sonic potential.
Trust me, until you've heard that, all the other solutions (in comparison) are 'Toytown'. Of course, much depends on your budget, but if you want the best......
Anyway, I look forward to reading your impressions in due course! :cool:
Marco.
Sadly Marco I have to draw a line in the sand re what can and can't be done in the context of this article and that degree of modification worthy as it might be can't be part of this as it takes ones ability to compare to places that I can't go; what I am doing is complex enough already. Its adding too much to the variables so as such I am not looking into internal regs. Also I think it unlikely that I will get to try an SR7 as Paul has no spare ones and builds to order, another factor that makes what I am doing very difficult as most of the companies involved in the Technics modification game are small one man band affairs, building to order when and where orders are placed; so there is no stock to borrow from. That I think you can appreciate makes trying to gather everything together in one place at one time pretty hard, hence the amount of time it has taken to try and pull this all together so far.
While I am quite sure your 'uber 1200' is at the very top of what's possible with a 1200 (though I suspect there will always be new discoveries made) to dismiss the other options as 'toy town' is somewhat belittling and unfair in my opinion; as that last few percent may just not be an option for some. As you rightly point out not everyone can A afford nor B justify spending that amount on a 1200 turntable.
Anyway time will tell what's what but the main aim of the review is the comparing of the options that the average enthusiast can do easily and internal reg mods in my opinion fall outside that remit. Once I reach the end of this set of reviews and settle on my own use deck I may well look at what you suggest but I need to reach that stage to do that and I am not there yet.
JazzBones
20-07-2012, 07:48
Sadly Marco I have to draw a line in the sand re what can and can't be done in the context of this article and that degree of modification worthy as it might be can't be part of this as it takes ones ability to compare to places that I can't go; what I am doing is complex enough already. Its adding too much to the variables so as such I am not looking into internal regs. Also I think it unlikely that I will get to try an SR7 as Paul has no spare ones and builds to order, another factor that makes what I am doing very difficult as most of the companies involved in the Technics modification game are small one man band affairs, building to order when and where orders are placed; so there is no stock to borrow from. That I think you can appreciate makes trying to gather everything together in one place at one time pretty hard, hence the amount of time it has taken to try and pull this all together so far.
While I am quite sure your 'uber 1200' is at the very top of what's possible with a 1200 (though I suspect there will always be new discoveries made) to dismiss the other options as 'toy town' is somewhat belittling and unfair in my opinion; as that last few percent may just not be an option for some. As you rightly point out not everyone can A afford nor B justify spending that amount on a 1200 turntable.
Anyway time will tell what's what but the main aim of the review is the comparing of the options that the average enthusiast can do easily and internal reg mods in my opinion fall outside that remit. Once I reach the end of this set of reviews and settle on my own use deck I may well look at what you suggest but I need to reach that stage to do that and I am not there yet.
Hi Neil, a measured and factual response to Marco's 'toytown' unwarranted remark, he has said it before and no doubt will continue to do so that it is fast becoming wearisome! Marco, if your reading this, I take your reference to other than a Paul Hynes psu unit as preening eletism and very insulting to those of us who don't have loads of money and choose a more realistic route other than the expense and real world hassle of a PH plus reg mods. Okay, for you it is the best thing on planet audio and no doubt you would not have bought at the same price as us miniuns and also your friend appears to be readily available to assist. If you had to do the work yourself you would no doubt think more sympathetically to those of us that do not have the same resources as yourself,.... be a good lad and cut the 'toy town' childlike remark out please :) after all you hate it when others refer to the Technics TT as merely a DJ table of no worth... remember Marc Phillips?
Back to you Neil, my admiration and thanks for the job you are doing for the everyday Joe and Joesy :clapclapclap:
Ron
Audioman
20-07-2012, 08:50
While I am quite sure your 'uber 1200' is at the very top of what's possible with a 1200 (though I suspect there will always be new discoveries made) to dismiss the other options as 'toy town' is somewhat belittling and unfair in my opinion; as that last few percent may just not be an option for some. As you rightly point out not everyone can A afford nor B justify spending that amount on a 1200 turntable.
:thumbsup:
This sounds like a very good article. I am sure very few owners have gone to the regs mod level anyway. This involves surgery beyond the average DIYer from what I have seen and one member has screwed his deck up trying. Makes sense to concentrate on relatively affordable and easily retrofittable upgrades I think.
JazzBones
20-07-2012, 09:40
:thumbsup:
This sounds like a very good article. I am sure very few owners have gone to the regs mod level anyway. This involves surgery beyond the average DIYer from what I have seen and one member has screwed his deck up trying. Makes sense to concentrate on relatively affordable and easily retrofittable upgrades I think.
Very good point Paul, agree 100%. This elitism smacks of the young man walking down the street skyting that his donk is bigger than anybody elses 'toy town' to all within earshot :rolleyes:
To use an analogy: Most people will say that the Rolls Royce car is the very best you can buy for its engineering finess etc., BUT how many people do you see driving Rolls Royces, NO... they are more than likely to be driving Fords etc., which do the same job of getting you from A to B and back to A safely in most cases, may be without the same degree of plushness, bling and comfort but, as I said, the Ford etc., does the journey job without complaint from the owner :)
Ron
To bring things down to earth a bit. Anyone would think the stock techie was so badly designed it couldn't possibly work without all these increasingly expensive add-ons. There's a lot of psychology here as well as genuine refinements going on and in fairness, I do feel that attending to the main issues such as isolation/feet, arm-cartridge matching, mats and proper lubrication of the stock bearing will do most of this for quite genuine reasons. External power supplies start costly and then go through the roof, but can only polish a turd if the structure of the deck isn't isolated from its surroundings properly and if the record isn't supported in a way that gives the best transfer to the cartridge. Only when the imprtant bits are attended to should one even think about farting around with removing transformers and buying increasingly expensive external units - in my opinion of course.....
Hi Ron,
Hi Neil, a measured and factual response to Marco's 'toytown' unwarranted remark, he has said it before and no doubt will continue to do so that it is fast becoming wearisome! Marco, if your reading this, I take your reference to other than a Paul Hynes psu unit as preening eletism and very insulting to those of us who don't have loads of money and choose a more realistic route other than the expense and real world hassle of a PH plus reg mods.
First of all, allow me to apologise for your misunderstanding of what I've written, due to my inappropriate choice of language. Using the word 'Toytown' didn't really succeed in conveying properly what I meant. I typed that post to Neil fairly late last night, after a busy day. It was nothing to do with "preening elitism", so sorry if it came across that way :)
Ok, I'll explain better what I meant...
In the rush to point out to Neil that his (no doubt excellent, as usual) forthcoming review of PSUs, for the Techy, wasn't going to be complete (or conclusive) without hearing, what in my opinion, is the PSU combo that takes the SL-1200/1210 to the pinnacle of its performance so far, I didn't take into consideration the even greater significance of having a report done which will allow more affordable PSU solutions the exposure in the public domain necessary, in order to help the most people make an informed choice.
Make no mistake about this: I am 110% behind what the likes of Vantage Audio are doing, simply because it encourages more people to investigate upgrading the Technics, through the use of judiciously designed modifications, built cost-effectively.
If it weren't for people like Richard, then the effectiveness of 'spreading of the word' to the audiophile community of just how good the Technics is as a 'serious' turntable, which offers extremely high SPPV (the very raison d'être for my championing of it), would be vastly diluted, simply because not everyone will be able to afford, or justify the expenditure necessary, in order to go the route of Mike New bearing/Paul Hynes SR7 (+ reg mods). Quite simply, the more modded Techies out there, which their users are delighted with, the better!
However, don't get me wrong, IMO, based on considerable experience of using the latter items in question, they result, by a large degree, in giving the best sonic results, and so for me, are worth every penny (or Dollar) of their cost, but at the same time, that situation pales into insignificance when compared with exposing the maximum amount of people possible to the joys of playing music on this iconic and (when judiciously modified) rather unique direct-drive turntable.
I trust that explains my views on the matter rather better? :)
One other point I would make, in reference to my own preferred choice, is the reason that the sonic results gained by going the 'SR7 route' are, IMO, so rewarding, is because of the unique partnership between the SR7 PSU and the associated regulator mods; it is the latter that makes all the difference, and what elevates that particular route as being ahead of both Paul's 'lesser' PSU options, and also the rest of the competition, quite simply because no-one else is offering a multiple regulated PSU solution for the Technics.
For those of you who remember, when I moved from using the Paul Hynes SR5, to the bigger SR7, with my SL-1210, it produced a notable sonic improvement, but it was only when the partnering regulator boards were installed, and they worked in tandem with each other, did things move into being a rather different ball game. I cannot stress enough the HUGE leap that gave, in terms of anything a music lover or audiophile would consider as important from a high-end turntable.
Therefore, to conclude, choose the PSU option available for the Technics which best suits your pocket, and be glad that, in doing so, you'll own one of the finest vinyl replay machines that money can buy, regardless of what you've spent on it! :cool:
Marco.
JazzBones
20-07-2012, 12:01
To bring things down to earth a bit. Anyone would think the stock techie was so badly designed it couldn't possibly work without all these increasingly expensive add-ons. There's a lot of psychology here as well as genuine refinements going on and in fairness, I do feel that attending to the main issues such as isolation/feet, arm-cartridge matching, mats and proper lubrication of the stock bearing will do most of this for quite genuine reasons. External power supplies start costly and then go through the roof, but can only polish a turd if the structure of the deck isn't isolated from its surroundings properly and if the record isn't supported in a way that gives the best transfer to the cartridge. Only when the imprtant bits are attended to should one even think about farting around with removing transformers and buying increasingly expensive external units - in my opinion of course.....
Good and valid opinion Dave, and Neil must be applauded, loud and clear, for taking on this psu task, at least he would have listened to and lived with a number of options and then formulated HIS findings and possible preferences.
I totally agree on getting the fundamentals right, support and placement, correct set up and so on (you and I know this from the LP12 days, wrong set up = a musical fuck up! :doh:). How can you go from a standard KAB, to a base TimeStep (Toy Town???) to an all singing, dancing Paul Hynes with regulated supplies and silver wire and be disparaging of what went before... sure, it maybe like going from a scooter to a Lexus for those who have the folding dosh to go this far. I imagine that the members and citizens of this forum come from all strata of of life, from the fabulously wealthy, to high income plus handsome bonus, able to set aside the necessary to those who don't even have second penny to rub against the only penny they have!
It seems that the worth of a Technics is accorded to how much money and more money you wish to spend/lavish on it... sad really and no wonder others, else where, see us as trying to gold plate excretia :stalks:
Ron
Ron, I think you should read my last (long) post, above :)
Marco.
Hi Pedro,
As promised...
Has anyone ever got the chance to compare the PSUs available for the Technics deck, like the Timestep, the MCrU, the Vantage Audio and the one from Paul Hynes? What were your thoughts or conclusions and which should be the best performance per pound upgrade from the bunch?
Neil's forthcoming article should provide you with most of the information you need, however bear in mind what I've written about the Paul Hynes SR7, in conjunction with the internal regulator boards, if you want the 'ultimate'.
As for, IMO, the best option in terms SPPV, I'd say either the Vantage Audio unit, the one available from David Brooks, at Mains Cables R Us (designed by Nick Gorham), or the Paul Hynes SR3.
Also, has anyone tried to simply remove the internal PSU and place it an external box and compared it to one of the commercial external PSU from above?
Yes, a few people here have had good results with that, so I'd recommended that option if you're on a tight budget. However, I'd expect any of the ones I mentioned above, overall, to be a better option :)
Marco.
Also, has anyone tried to simply remove the internal PSU and place it an external box and compared it to one of the commercial external PSU from above?
Yes, a few people here have had good results with that, so it's recommended if you're on a tight budget, however I'd expect any of the above, overall, to be a better option :)
Marco.
I'm on a very tight budget so this interests me muchly, is there a thread on the forum which deals with this mod?
Stratmangler
20-07-2012, 16:22
I'm on a very tight budget so this interests me muchly, is there a thread on the forum which deals with this mod?
Not specifically, but there is a thread which relates to fitting an external PSU, and if you look at the bits (there are pictures) that you need to remove from under the platter you can work out what to do.
I have removed the PSU gubbins from underneath the platter and placed them in an external box, and improvements in sound quality were quite large.
Cheers Chris I'll take a butchers ;)
I think there is a thread somewhere, but I can't find it, however, there is a good one on pfm, here, from sonddek: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=101356
Hope that helps, Dave :cool:
Marco.
Stratmangler
20-07-2012, 16:28
I think there is a thread somewhere, but I can't find it, however, there is a good one on pfm, here, from sonddek: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=101356
Hope that helps, Dave :cool:
Marco.
I used this same thread as a reference.
Yo' ees welcome, brovva :)
Marco.
Hi! Thank you all for your replies, easn't expecting such a fiery debate. I am yet to get my SL-1210 and with a no budget whatsoever just now, the PSU won't be bought before the end of this year. I will have the cheaper mods done first, the Achromat and new feet and I will need a good cart as well as a tonearm rewired and dampened, so the best part of €500 will be spend in the next couple of months.
I will try Sondeks mod from PFM, already looked into that, and further dwelve into external PSU territory later, as funds allow, but for now am very curious on your reviews and comparisons on those PSU.
So, I am curious to how much of an improvement one would get from a commercial PSU, as most of it should be from just removing the internal one. Since this is very cheap, I will try it in the near future.
Second, given the same budget, should I get bigger improvement by placing a new PSU or with a new arm, like a Audio Origami or a Jelco.
Finally, I noticed you didn't mentioned the Time Step, Marco. Didn't you like it or never had the chance to try it out?
I've just had a glance at sondeks thread on PFM and there is too much potential for me to fry myself or set fire to the house so I'm gonna leave well alone... :lol:
Hi Pedro,
Finally, I noticed you didn't mentioned the Time Step, Marco. Didn't you like it or never had the chance to try it out?
Oh, I did more that that. I owned and used one for some time (and it was ok), that was until I found out the Dave Cawley was a shyster, and tried to rip off the design for Mike New's bearing. I make a point never to do business with dishonest people.
Plus the fact that the pricing of the Timestep PSUs is, shall we say, somewhat 'inventive', based on the quality of the cheapo components inside...
My advice? Avoid like the plague.
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
20-07-2012, 17:06
:thumbsup:
This sounds like a very good article. I am sure very few owners have gone to the regs mod level anyway. This involves surgery beyond the average DIYer from what I have seen and one member has screwed his deck up trying. Makes sense to concentrate on relatively affordable and easily retrofittable upgrades I think.
Just a quick correction, my entire deck wasnt screwed up, just the PCB and these can be bought for less than 40 quid off ebay. This topic is very emotive. I think I own the most expensive SR7 devised yet. I've gone from an original stock 1210, then I owned the Timestep HSE and then the SR7-27XL from Paul Hynes. I've noticed a steadily increasing improvement with each upgrade. My nemesis was the internal regs, they are easy to install but I just didnt have the "skill" to do the job :( hence one screwed up PCB. I actually get more enjoyment from tweeking so this article sounds right up my street.
Audioman
20-07-2012, 20:58
Just a quick correction, my entire deck wasnt screwed up, just the PCB and these can be bought for less than 40 quid off ebay. This topic is very emotive. I think I own the most expensive SR7 devised yet. I've gone from an original stock 1210, then I owned the Timestep HSE and then the SR7-27XL from Paul Hynes. I've noticed a steadily increasing improvement with each upgrade. My nemesis was the internal regs, they are easy to install but I just didnt have the "skill" to do the job :( hence one screwed up PCB. I actually get more enjoyment from tweeking so this article sounds right up my street.
I quoted your predicament to illustrate that this isn't a DIY job for the light hearted. Screwed Deck up to me = not working as you did the PCB in. If someone like yourself who regularly dables in DIY mods could not accomplish this task it obviously tells me this is a job for the experts at additional cost to do the work. Not suggesting your deck is beyond repair Andrew.
I was merely arguing that for most that Marco's 'Toy Town' mods may be the level most modders are interested in as they may not be excessively expensive and achievable with basic electrical knowledge and soldering skills. I would guess the Hynes SR7 and reg boards amount to a lot of dosh especialy on top of £1K+ for MN bearing and Funk platter. May sound great but at a price most will not want to throw at a 'DJ' deck. :)
Just picked up a 1200 mk2 to play 12" vinyl on.
Looking forward to see how it sounds.
JazzBones
20-07-2012, 21:56
Hi Pedro,
Oh, I did more that that. I owned and used one for some time (and it was ok), that was until I found out the Dave Cawley was a shyster, and tried to rip off the design for Mike New's bearing. I make a point never to do business with dishonest people.
Plus the fact that the pricing of the Timestep PSUs is, shall we say, somewhat 'inventive', based on the quality of the cheapo components inside...
My advice? Avoid like the plague.
Marco.
Marco, I'm fully aware that you can't abide Dave Cawley and believe me he's the reason I left the TimeStep forum and came here. I believe you went from KAB to the BASE model TimeStep supply so as far as I know you have not had the TS HE psu in your system for trial but your advice is to 'Avoid like the plague' You lump both base and HE models under the one dismissal of product because of utter distaste of DC. If I remember correctly MartinT also had a TS base model and then went to the PH SR3. I think he found that there was not alot in it inspite of cheapo components. Now you are a man of very strong views, nothing wrong with that, but I refuse to endorse your findings ... are you not afraid that your repeated bad mouthing of all things TimeStep could lead to litigation proceedings against you by the party concerned?
I feel just as fiery about this issue as you do, but you own this site so I will have nothing more to do with this thread up until the time Neil publishes his findings.
My words above are said with the utmost respect to all perusers of this thread and your good self.
Ron
I'm looking forward to reading Neils write up, its always good to read others experiences with any upgrades you've tried especially when they get chance to compare alternative types.
I've tried a few diy LM317 type regged psu's with lots of filtering etc similar to the original TS, they was better than the stock 1210 offering.The stock internal supply and regulation is quite shite in all honesty. Its what it is, cheap and simple :)
The smaller PH based supplies are excellent and far more sophisticated but the ones using his meatier modules are :eek: For me these was better than the LM317 and clearly better than the stock unit.
I can understand why Marco had to mention the internal regs, I've tried them using Pauls older regs and it really did make things interesting. The sound just became clearer, cleaner backgrounds allowing more subtle details to come through. The more I listened to it the more LIVE it sounded and it seem's to improve further over time.
At least theres now places offering to do the mod for those not confident in diy. It gives the option to add later when funds allow it.
Not meaning to drift off topic but out of interest whats the TS HE based on? is it discrete? series or shunt based? Is it LM** type boosted with a transistor?
Stratmangler
21-07-2012, 07:31
The stock internal supply and regulation is quite shite in all honesty. Its what it is, cheap and simple :)
That's a bit unfair - it's easy (and cheap) to make derogatory statements with hindsight.
Go back to the 1970s and see what components were available.
They did the best they could, built to a price, as the SL-12xx was never intended to be a statement product.
If you wanted better you bought an SP-10.
As I've found out just removing the stock PSU from beneath the platter and putting it into an external box improves the sound quality off the SL-12xx no end, which ain't bad for a "broken" PSU.
Hi Ron,
Did you read my earlier reply to you (post #16)? If so, the least you could have done was had the courtesy of acknowledging it, before launching into another one of your 'rants'. It's getting a bit tedious, mate! :rolleyes:
However, let's deal with this...
I believe you went from KAB to the BASE model TimeStep supply so as far as I know you have not had the TS HE psu in your system for trial but your advice is to 'Avoid like the plague' You lump both base and HE models under the one dismissal of product because of utter distaste of DC.
Yes, I went from the KAB to the Timestep, which produced a reasonable, but far from amazing improvement.
I then heard the SR3 against it, which to my ears and others (Shuggie, Anthony TD, etc) pissed all over the Timestep, and that led to me using Paul's PSUs, and progressing up the range, simply because not only did they sound superb, but they were produced by someone who had a real understanding of power supply design, rather than a kid-on merchant, in the business simply to make a fast buck, the fact of which was revealed when someone opened up the base model Timestep and discovered that there were about £40 pounds worth of parts inside, for a PSU that was selling for £300!! :doh:
Nice mark-up, eh?
Sometime after that I discovered that Cawley had tried to rip off Mike New, and given that I abhor dishonesty of any kind, I cut off all links with the man and banned him from the forum.
Now, although I haven't heard the HE version of the Timestep, you'll forgive me if the experience of knowing that the base model was a rip-off, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence that the HE version would be any different, at cost of £450, particularly when it uses the exact same case!
So what radical improvements were likely to have been undertaken to justify the £150 price hike?
A bigger transformer (which we know from Paul's designs makes a very significant difference)? No, not a chance, given the use of the existing small casing. All he could have done would've been perhaps to upgrade the painfully el-cheapo LM317 regulator, with something more suitable, which should've been used in the first place on the £300 model (!) and/or upgraded a few caps, resistors, or whatever, any or all of which would not likely have made a massive 'night and day' difference.
It's just a pity that no-one here, such as Leo, got a chance to open up the HE and compare it to the base model, as I'm sure that the results of that would've been very interesting indeed! For roughly the same money as the HE, you could buy Paul's SR5, which is a different ball game altogether.
Therefore, based on the above, without even considering Cawley's disgraceful treatment of Mike New, I think there is more than enough evidence to dismiss the HE, as simply no more than a 'tarted up' version of the rip-off base model.
If I remember correctly MartinT also had a TS base model and then went to the PH SR3. I think he found that there was not alot in it inspite of cheapo components.
Yes, Martin thought that initially, until I brought down an SR3, and we carried out the comparison in his system and I highlighted something about the sonic presentation of the Timestep that Martin hadn't noticed before. Once he tuned into that, he could hear exactly where the Timestep was going wrong.
Not long after that, he sold the Timestep and bought an SR5, which annihilated the Timestep, during the same demonstration!
Now you are a man of very strong views, nothing wrong with that, but I refuse to endorse your findings ...
That's up to you. My "strong views" are also honest observations, based on my experience of the subject, so people can make up their own minds. I never write anything here that I don't believe in, can't substantiate, or that isn't true.
However, I have to say that your ranting, simply as a result of me being critical of certain equipment you use (your Timestep HE PSU), is becoming rather tiresome. You can disagree with me, Ron, without using language which turns it into a personal attack!
...are you not afraid that your repeated bad mouthing of all things TimeStep could lead to litigation proceedings against you by the party concerned?
No. Why should I be? How can you take proceedings against someone who is telling the truth? If Cawley starts that, I'll bury him, with the evidence I've got, which shows in black and white exactly what he did to Mike new.
My words above are said with the utmost respect to all perusers of this thread and your good self.
Well, Ron, you should practice what you preach. Examine your last two responses towards me on this thread, and you'll find mostly patronising remarks and ranting, with respect being very largely absent.
Marco.
chris@panteg
21-07-2012, 10:05
That's a bit unfair - it's easy (and cheap) to make derogatory statements with hindsight.
Go back to the 1970s and see what components were available.
They did the best they could, built to a price, as the SL-12xx was never intended to be a statement product.
If you wanted better you bought an SP-10.
As I've found out just removing the stock PSU from beneath the platter and putting it into an external box improves the sound quality off the SL-12xx no end, which ain't bad for a "broken" PSU.
+1 well said Chris.
That's a bit unfair - it's easy (and cheap) to make derogatory statements with hindsight.
Go back to the 1970s and see what components were available.
They did the best they could, built to a price, as the SL-12xx was never intended to be a statement product.
If you wanted better you bought an SP-10.
As I've found out just removing the stock PSU from beneath the platter and putting it into an external box improves the sound quality off the SL-12xx no end, which ain't bad for a "broken" PSU.
The 1210 has lots of potential , the main build, drive circuitry etc of the deck is extremely good for the price. Like most commercial gear the psu has been skimped on which isn't a big problem for even the casual diyer. The stock regulation would be even cheaper than a basic LM317.
Moving the noisy traffo externally will improve things especially for MC users but its still my opinion theres worthwhile gains to be had taking things further. I would not be fannying about wasting time if I felt the stock psu and regulation brought out the most in this deck. I have done this in steps starting with cheap parts from Maplin and then going up to the PH parts.
Indeed, Leo. Ya pays yer money and takes ya choice! :)
Marco.
Returning to Ron's point about the Timestep HE, and what I wrote in my reply, Paul Hynes has something interesting to say here about the subject (post #5):
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12503
To upgrade the TS-PSU in a worthwhile way would require a radically better regulation system so you would have to remove the regulator module from the case and replace it with a better solution. The mains transformer is a 30VA unit and this could be increased in size too. There is not a lot of space in the case for adding “off the shelf” regulator modules so you would be better to DIY a new power supply and sell the TS on to someone else.
The above confirms my suspicions about the HE, simply because it shares the same sized casing as the base model Timestep, therefore nothing radical could've been done, in order to have made the HE significantly superior to the base model, which is really why one should avoid buying it.
The only 'radical' thing to have happened, with the purchase of a Timestep HE PSU, would've been having your wallet lightened to the tune of £150! ;)
Pedro, or anyone else interested in the subject of external Technics PSUs, should read Leo's erudite observations here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8920
Marco.
We need to see innards, it may surprise us :D
Yes, and the surprise is there's a note inside, which reads:
"HAHA, YOU'VE BEEN HAD...!!!"
:lol: :lol:
Marco.
...or perhaps an invitation to contribute even more cash to Dave Cawley's retirement fund... :ner:
We are not going to let the world know how we designed ours, as all the other 'me-too' manufacturers will simply copy us. We put a lot of time and effort into our PSU's and we think we deserve some reward for that.
There are several very special features on our HE PSU, but we are keeping quiet about them otherwise the 'me-too' boys will copy them without really understanding what they are, or why they are there.
We always allow our loyal customers to upgrade and one day there will be an HE II !
Your not convinced by the above then :whistle:
It sounds like 'flim flam' to me but I could be wrong, it has been known... :lol:
We are not going to let the world know how we designed ours, as all the other 'me-too' manufacturers will simply copy us. We put a lot of time and effort into our PSU's and we think we deserve some reward for that.
There are several very special features on our HE PSU, but we are keeping quiet about them otherwise the 'me-too' boys will copy them without really understanding what they are, or why they are there.
We always allow our loyal customers to upgrade and one day there will be an HE II !
And anti-'flim flam'd' it reads:
"We are not going to let the world know how we designed ours (even though no bugger ever reads our insignificant little blog), as if manufacturers who actually know what they're doing saw what was inside the HE, they would take the piss and laugh at how rubbish it looks for the price. Therefore, we've invented this ridiculous facade of 'mystery', in order to convince the easily influenced that we have some special understanding of what is a basic electrical design concept.
We put a lot of time and effort into dreaming up how we could successfully market a mediocre product as being special, in order to fleece our loyal but laughably gullible disciples, the profits from which are topping up our pension fund nicely [kerrrrcchhiinnngg, in the back of the net]!"
:)
Marco.
kininigin
25-07-2012, 13:32
Yes, and the surprise is there's a note inside, which reads:
"HAHA, YOU'VE BEEN HAD...!!!"
:lol: :lol:
Marco.
Is that what you were thinking,when you sold it to me? :ner:
Don't worry,i don't hold any grudges!! I'm big enough and ugly enough to make my own decisions,you had it for sale and i was happy (at the time) to pay for it :)
Although all this bashing of the TS PSU,isn't going to help,if i want to sell it on this forum!! :lol:
Hahahaha... Aye, but remember that I was daft enough to buy the fooking thing in the first place!! :D
Seriously though, the Timestep PSU is perfectly adequate for the job. The thing is, you know what you know at the time when you buy something, and if you're on a proper learning curve, making continuous and genuine progress with your system, then you should know more now than you did in the past, thus the performance of your system should have moved forward accordingly...
That's the situation I'm currently in, given what I know is possible now with T/T PSUs (thanks to Paul Hynes). It's simply a matter of improving one's existing benchmark :cool:
I've got a spare SR5, Darren, if you want to try it.... ;)
Marco.
kininigin
25-07-2012, 14:23
To be fair,you,along with others,are able to try all these different options,where alot of us are unable.So the learning and knowledge gained is a big help,for at least me anyway.
I like the fact,i can be a couple of years behind,the latest and greatest next upgrade.It gives me a wider perspective to look at it from,as more people over time,either confirm or not,peoples findings of the various upgrades they are championing.
Anyway i'm waffling :lol:
Regarding the SR5,that would be interesting to hear for myself,what if any,differences there could be between the SR5 and TS,in my system.Although i'm not sure i'm in a position to buy atm!! It is festival season and i'm about to start learning to drive :D
Spectral Morn
25-07-2012, 17:51
Not defending anyone here but simply stating my own methodology before commenting on anything audio I feel that unless one does direct comparisons with two items side by side, regardless of what they are, its very hard in my opinion to second guess performance. System synergy must also be taken into account.
I also feel that quite exciting results can be achieved with simple non audiophile parts and I would site Musical Fidelity as an example of a company who can, when they haven't lost their way (I think they have found themselves again though I have heard nothing from them in quite a long time but I recall well when it went from excellent Nu-Vista, Tri-Vista to not very good in my view), can produce stunning sounding gear. Its all about implementation of components.
Now power supplies may not be quite the same as full components and I am in no position to offer any opinion on the sonic merits of a standard TS psu over an HE version (anyone like to lend me one?) as sadly I have not been able to locate a sample of an HE that I can borrow to compare with the standard unit but I do suspect, though I have yet to test this fully, that depending on which modders (Time Step Evo, KAB, Origin Live, Vantage Audio)approach one adopts feels sympathy towards or who's approach best matches your particular system, inclinations, or combination of ancillaries (varying arms, carts, isolation, psus etc) one uses on ones Technics 1200 the results may not be as clear cut as I feel at times it is being suggested. In short I think a lot of the results one might hear depends on the particular brew of add ons.
Time will tell but as I have hinted before I don't think this is quite as straightforward as might at first appear. My initial psu listening tests hints at more complexity in the matching process re the psu used to a particular decks or combination of ancillaries, over and above specification or size of the psu.
Thanks Neil for the balanced response here. Didn't TS present documented evidence as to the ability of their supplies over the stock implementation? the HE version is reputed to be a higher current version isn't it?
Sure, Neil. I get that and largely agree.
However, part of the argument, regarding the Timestep HE is that, materially, in terms of the quality of internal components used, does it represent value for money as an upgrade over the base model unit - indeed, does the base model unit itself, in that respect, represent value for money?
Others and I say no. Compare what one gets, in that respect, pound for pound, with products from, say, Paul Hynes, Vantage Audio and Mains Cables R Us. Leo, and others here, used to building quality equipment and knowing the 'cost versus quality' of components, are the most qualified to comment.
Yes, ultimately it's all about sound quality and the synergy which leads to giving one the most sonic satisfaction, but when dropping £450 on an off-board PSU, a certain expectation level exists as to what should be living 'underneath the hood'! ;)
Marco.
Hi Dave,
Didn't TS present documented evidence as to the ability of their supplies over the stock implementation? the HE version is reputed to be a higher current version isn't it?
Sure, but what exactly does that mean in the real world, sonically? That one unit is a bit better than the other? What exactly is a bit better? How can you compare that benchmark with those set by the products from other manufacturers?
What we need is a proper in-depth listening test carried out between a Timestep HE and, say, a Paul Hynes SR5, where the user knows the test system and partnering turntable inside out :)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
25-07-2012, 18:37
What we need is a knife to cut through the bull shit. We can measure variables to the Nth degree. What we cant measure is how these variable impact on our enjoyment of what we hear, thats an emotional response. Synergy is a concept I can appreciate. What is really beginning to piss me of is the concept of saying one PSU is better than the other with no real data to back up this type of claim, this claim is always going very subjective. We will never understand why one PSU appears to be better than another until an individual or group of individuals can produce a suite of tests that can measure what supposedly makes one PSU better than the other. In fact where do we start?? Here's my challenge!!! Define me a list of criteria and areas that we should test to comparatively assess if one PSU is better than the other. :D Once thats defined we may statistically be able to assess SOME areas and give meaningful answers.
Spectral Morn
25-07-2012, 19:38
What we need is a knife to cut through the bull shit. We can measure variables to the Nth degree. What we cant measure is how these variable impact on our enjoyment of what we hear, thats an emotional response. Synergy is a concept I can appreciate. What is really beginning to piss me of is the concept of saying one PSU is better than the other with no real data to back up this type of claim, this claim is always going very subjective. We will never understand why one PSU appears to be better than another until an individual or group of individuals can produce a suite of tests that can measure what supposedly makes one PSU better than the other. In fact where do we start?? Here's my challenge!!! Define me a list of criteria and areas that we should test to comparatively assess if one PSU is better than the other. :D Once thats defined we may statistically be able to assess SOME areas and give meaningful answers.
I fully intend to get as subjectively close to what you suggest as I can but the number of variables is great and what I hear in my particular system may not exactly match what others hear in theirs but it is the best I can do and offer at this time.
Measurements may indeed add value to this but alas I am not in a position to do any kind of objective testing and while those results might indeed go some way to explaining what I might hear ultimately I feel what I subjectively hear is more important; for me anyway.
Anyway as I said in an earlier post in this thread I am still waiting for a few bits and I can do nothing more till I get them, as I want all the elements to hand at the same time to facilitate detailed comparisons. I have three Technics turntables to hand which will help me do this.
Spectral Morn
25-07-2012, 19:56
Sure, Neil. I get that and largely agree.
However, part of the argument, regarding the Timestep HE is that, materially, in terms of the quality of internal components used, does it represent value for money as an upgrade over the base model unit - indeed, does the base model unit itself, in that respect, represent value for money?
Others and I say no. Compare what one gets, in that respect, pound for pound, with products from, say, Paul Hynes, Vantage Audio and Mains Cables R Us. Leo, and others here, used to building quality equipment and knowing the 'cost versus quality' of components, are the most qualified to comment.
Yes, ultimately it's all about sound quality and the synergy which leads to giving one the most sonic satisfaction, but when dropping £450 on an off-board PSU, a certain expectation level exists as to what should be living 'underneath the hood'! ;)
Marco.
I agree that £450 is indeed a lot of money (for any audio component) but I suspect, though I am probably not going to be able to prove my thought, that in the context of a Timestep Evo solution the HE may offer the most synergistic match and improvement over the standard PSU, over and above an other company's option, regardless of price, construction, component value etc as it will be a question of synergy and not component cost alone or being bigger or dearer, which in the case of audio is not always a deciding factor. We have all heard dear components/systems not synergistically matched be bested by a simpler cheaper system. The same may well also be the case with add on PSU's when placed in the context of a Technics 1200.
I have all the bits here bar bearing to create an EVO but alas no HE PSU to test my theory.
On its own it is possible that taken out of an EVO context that an HE might be bettered by another similarly priced PSU if hooked into say an Origin Live solution or Vantage Audio solution. What I think the crux of the matter here is that when you look at the 'synergy of components' that once one steps outside of the 'solutions' being offered/marketed and tries to add other 'elements' to other 'solutions' one might lose synergy. I would also have to say that your particular turntable as it is today and Martin's are also in their own way also possible 'solutions'. They may stand on their own as universal Technics 1200 options or only work well within the context of your particular systems or a limited number of systems.
This is a very complex matter and more so as one steps further and further away from what Technics originally brought to market, all-be-it at a market price.
Interesting times ahead and I can't wait to get further into this.
Hi Andrew,
What is really beginning to piss me of is the concept of saying one PSU is better than the other with no real data to back up this type of claim, this claim is always going very subjective. We will never understand why one PSU appears to be better than another until an individual or group of individuals can produce a suite of tests that can measure what supposedly makes one PSU better than the other.
Well, Paul Hynes has provided a pretty compelling reason already why the cheapo LM317 regulator, used in the base model Timestep, is painfully inadequate for the job (quote taken from here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=314099&postcount=38):
Providing separate high performance, wide bandwidth regulators, for each stage in the motor control circuitry reduces these voltage interactions considerably. This allows more accurate signal processing by the control circuitry. The regulators have to have an operating bandwidth that significantly exceeds the signal circuitry operating frequency for the best result so don’t expect to achieve high performance regulation from an LM317, when the signal circuits are processing up to around 4 MHz, as the LM317 has stopped regulating at this frequency!
See the bit in bold!
Therefore, the question to be asked is: does the more expensive (£450) HE version of the Timestep use a radically better regulation system than that based around the 'off the shelf' LM317??
And do you think that DC would provide that info, if asked on his forum? ;)
Also, we already know, through using Paul's designs, that a 30VA transformer (as used in the Timestep) is insufficient, in order to maximise the effectiveness of the PSU at lowering noise, so where does that leave the HE, which as it shares the same sized casing as the base model, obviously uses the same undersized traffo?
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
25-07-2012, 20:20
Gentleman welcome to the concept of infinite variablity, i think the job of comparing the PSU's is simply too complicated, we have too many variables to analyse. Yours is a task that I simply would not want. I'm looking forward to reading the outcome. I only hope the design of your comparative analysis of the PSU's insy flawed, else your analysis will be flawed. One of my roles in life is research scientist, if you need help or guidance, give me a shout. :cool:
PS Please take my comments as positive remarks and nothing more than that! :cool:
Spectral Morn
25-07-2012, 20:32
Gentleman welcome to the concept of infinite variablity, i think the job of comparing the PSU's is simply too complicated, we have too many variables to analyse. Yours is a task that I simply would not want. I'm looking forward to reading the outcome. I only hope the design of your comparative analysis of the PSU's insy flawed, else your analysis will be flawed. One of my roles in life is research scientist, if you need help or guidance, give me a shout. :cool:
PS Please take my comments as positive remarks and nothing more than that! :cool:
I have and I too hope that what I have begun will add nothing but light to the data base.
Hi Neil,
I agree that £450 is indeed a lot of money (for any audio component) but I suspect, though I am probably not going to be able to prove my thought, that in the context of a Timestep Evo solution the HE may offer the most synergistic match and improvement over the standard PSU, over and above an other company's option, regardless of price, construction, component value etc as it will be a question of synergy and not component cost alone or being bigger or dearer, which in the case of audio is not always a deciding factor.
I accept that, and you could be right. The problem I have is that I dislike the notion of being tied into a specific 'solution', as dictated by a manufacturer with a vested interest, especially one that involves using a bloody SME 309! ;)
You see, that's the type of thing that Cawley loves, as he relies on people needing a so-called 'expert' to tell them what to do, hence why he creates the rather nauseating 'guru' image... It's all just a front, mate, and some of us can see right through it.
I create my own 'solution', as indeed does Martin and others, based on testing stuff and using our own ears! We don't need taking by the hand and shown what to do. Perhaps what's needed then is a comparison of 'solutions' (in terms of modded Techies), at various price points, rather than one of individual components?
Interesting times ahead and I can't wait to get further into this.
Sure, and I look forward with great interest to reading your findings. The PSU comparisons you're making will no doubt be of great help to people, unable to try the relevant permutations, so my hat goes off to you for making the effort :cool:
Marco.
kininigin
25-07-2012, 21:16
Well,regardless whether the TS is 'fit for the job' or not,to my ears in my system,everthing sounds pretty decent to me.I haven't heard any other systems really and am still learning,so if i'm missing some glaringly obvious shortcomings,due to the TS,i'm unaware of them.
Indeed, Darren. Remember that I was also happy with it once. As they say, what you don't know can't hurt. It's rather like being satisfied with eating 'fresh' pasta from a supermarket: it's fine until you've tasted the real thing...! ;)
Marco.
kininigin
25-07-2012, 21:39
Haha yeah,i guess your right!
So does your offer to 'taste the real thing' still stand?
Of course. However, as the SR5 in question belongs to Paul, I'll have to clear it with him first before sending it out. I'm sure he'll be fine with it, though! :)
Marco.
kininigin
25-07-2012, 21:46
Ahh right i see,no problem either way marco.
If i do manage to hear it,i'll give my 2 cents,for what it's worth.
If only for something to laugh at,as i try and describe what i'm hearing :D
Wakefield Turntables
26-07-2012, 08:06
Hi Andrew,
Well, Paul Hynes has provided a pretty compelling reason already why the cheapo LM317 regulator, used in the base model Timestep, is painfully inadequate for the job (quote taken from here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=314099&postcount=38):
See the bit in bold!
Therefore, the question to be asked is: does the more expensive (£450) HE version of the Timestep use a radically better regulation system than that based around the 'off the shelf' LM317??
And do you think that DC would provide that info, if asked on his forum? ;)
Also, we already know, through using Paul's designs, that a 30VA transformer (as used in the Timestep) is insufficient, in order to maximise the effectiveness of the PSU at lowering noise, so where does that leave the HE, which as it shares the same sized casing as the base model, obviously uses the same undersized traffo?
Marco.
All good points and that is why I have the XL version of the SR7 massively over specified but it gets the job done, WITH EASE! I think we need PSU designers to explain why they use specific components in psu and what impact they think they will have on sonic output. If they can't tell us then who can:scratch: I think your chances of getting DC to make any comment are probably a bit fat Nil :D
Hi Neil,
I accept that, and you could be right. The problem I have is that I dislike the notion of being tied into a specific 'solution', as dictated by a manufacturer with a vested interest, especially one that involves using a bloody SME 309! ;)
You see, that's the type of thing that Cawley loves, as he relies on people needing a so-called 'expert' to tell them what to do, hence why he creates the rather nauseating 'guru' image... It's all just a front, mate, and some of us can see right through it.
I create my own 'solution', as indeed does Martin and others, based on testing stuff and using our own ears! We don't need taking by the hand and shown what to do. Perhaps what's needed then is a comparison of 'solutions' (in terms of modded Techies), at various price points, rather than one of individual components?
Sure, and I look forward with great interest to reading your findings. The PSU comparisons you're making will no doubt be of great help to people, unable to try the relevant permutations, so my hat goes off to you for making the effort :cool:
Marco.
+1 to that brother! :cool:
And anti-'flim flam'd' it reads:
"We are not going to let the world know how we designed ours (even though no bugger ever reads our insignificant little blog), as if manufacturers who actually know what they're doing saw what was inside the HE, they would take the piss and laugh at how rubbish it looks for the price. Therefore, we've invented this ridiculous facade of 'mystery', in order to convince the easily influenced that we have some special understanding of what is a basic electrical design concept.
We put a lot of time and effort into dreaming up how we could successfully market a mediocre product as being special, in order to fleece our loyal but laughably gullible disciples, the profits from which are topping up our pension fund nicely [kerrrrcchhiinnngg, in the back of the net]!"
:)
Marco.
Some of the advertising shite online always gives me a laugh, some of it makes you want to cringe reading it :D
Well, hopefully that one gave you a wee giggle!
Marco.
:lolsign:
Well, hopefully that one gave you a wee giggle!
Marco.
It did ;)
Anyone ever tried or heard about any of these Custom HiFi Cables PSUs?
http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/technics-1210-psu
http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/-dc2-dc-power-supply
Neil, you need to hear an SR7 (in conjunction with Paul's reg mods) before you can come to any meaningful conclusion on just how influential the best external PSUs are in allowing the Techy to realise its full sonic potential.
Trust me, until you've heard that, all the other solutions (in comparison) are 'Toytown'. Of course, much depends on your budget, but if you want the best......
Anyway, I look forward to reading your impressions in due course! :cool:
Marco.
:lol:
Well, have you heard it, daftee?
I keep telling you that until I hear Nick's one, I can't recommend it! ;)
So when is this bake-off of yours happening, so we can do some proper comparisons? Is it ever likely to move from being a pipedream in your head to a reality??? :eyebrows:
Marco.
you cannot call other psu's toytown chief as you have not heard them all, DC has a £1000 PSU in his portfolio which I saw at Bristol, plus there are plenty more that you have not heard or attempted to lift (one I saw weighed 28kg) so that would not be toytown either, come to think of it I should have put some wheels on it and drove it! :)
psu's are like any other item of hi-fi, pay £300 get a good one, pay £1000 get a better one
so they all have to be judged in context, the £1000 one should be better than the £300 one
a true comparison is nigh on impossible as they would all have to have the same connection to be used on the same turntable, or an adapter made which may reduce performance
if the outcome is the most expensive one sounds best that is good for whoever makes and sells it but as we all know many hi-fi enthusiasts have different priorities and would never spend that much on a psu, those that can afford it I salute you, I have spent a lot of money on my 401 recently and if the new Wand arrives in time you can listen to that against your Techy as well as any others that are brought along, should be a fun day
it will be soon so do not panic
I have 2 rooms now and am just finishing off the 2nd one so visitors can listen to a valve based system and a solid state system with either vinyl, cd or hi-res files
I have delivered and installed a few PSU's in the last 2 years, it is quite an easy job but for anyone who does not have a soldering iron/soldering skills there are a few dealers who will travel to your house to fit it for you.
Nick's Technics PSU which I sell is based on the same design theory as all his 2 box PSU's, we have sold 100's and the idea of the final regulation stage being as close to the load as possible works just as well with a Techy as it does with a Squeezebox or a Bushmaster.
I covered the "Toytown" comment in an earlier post :)
DC has a £1000 PSU in his portfolio which I saw at Bristol
FFS, the least said about that, the better...
You know, when he first sold me the base model Timestep, and I saw it next to the (much bigger) Timestep PSU for his SP10, I asked him why he didn't make a bigger one for the SL-1200. Do you know what he told me? He said that there was no advantage in making a bigger PSU for the SL-1200 because it measurably wouldn't have made any difference, due to how much current the SL-1200 can draw.
We now know that's bollocks, but that's beside the point....
Now, of course, having seen that there's money to be made in making bigger PSUs, he's all over the idea like a rash!! :doh: Still, it's nice to see him 'upping the ante'... I'm sure that the £1000 (HE II?) will be worth every penny!! :lol:
Looking forward to your bake-off, as much as I have been since you first mentioned it :cool:
Marco.
I keep telling you that until I hear Nick's one, I can't recommend it!
As soon as Neil has finished with the one of mine he has for the comparisons you can try that one.
Nice one, Nick. Ya knows I have faith in you, brovva, but ah still gots ta listen! :eyebrows: ;)
Marco,
psu's are like any other item of hi-fi, pay £300 get a good one, pay £1000 get a better one
Not sure I would agree with you there Dave if you mean "better" in terms of sound quality - in my opinion price and sound quality don't always go hand in hand...!
RobbieGong
02-08-2012, 12:06
Anyone ever tried or heard about any of these Custom HiFi Cables PSUs?
http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/technics-1210-psu
http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/-dc2-dc-power-supply
Yes, I have as I recently purchased one. Sean does a DC1 and a better DC2 for the Techie. I asked him if he could do me an 'upgraded' DC2 which he did for me as he uses one himself which he's been thinking of making available as a 'DC3' (I have details of spec etc in emails somewhere). I've been meaning to feedback on it but constant work, wife and kids commitments mean i hardly have the time. In a nutshell it cost me £418 delivered with quality cable and power lead, weighs a ton and looks real good. Sean offered me lots of options re: case, led etc. I only managed a few weeks of listening (Amp has gone into protection mode and needs looking at :( ) but it clearly makes the music sound more natural and transparent with enhanced seperation of individual parts making each part that is going on in the music easier to follow. Also more revealing of nuances and I suspect any weakneses ie: I sense now that I need to probably upgrade the platter (or at least change stock mat and maybe the arm too at some point then we really will be talking :) Highly recommended psu with great communication and service from Sean ;)
What mods does one need to perform on a Technics to place an external PSU? Is it a simple operation? Which is the one that's the nearest to a plug'n'play operation?
And Robert, did you try any other PSU to compare?
What mods does one need to perform on a Technics to place an external PSU? Is it a simple operation? Which is the one that's the nearest to a plug'n'play operation?
And Robert, did you try any other PSU to compare?
Not simple enough for me (I am cack-handed however ;)) which is why the Paul Hynes SR3 kindly donated to the cause by a generous AoS member is being fitted by the chap who gave it to me (thanks Mark :respect:).
RobbieGong
02-08-2012, 16:45
What mods does one need to perform on a Technics to place an external PSU? Is it a simple operation? Which is the one that's the nearest to a plug'n'play operation?
And Robert, did you try any other PSU to compare?
Hi Pedro, Yes, my first and previous external psu was the base Timestep. The lets call it DC3 I currently have gave a far more noticeable change and improvement from the word go which most wont find surprising :)
kininigin
06-08-2012, 17:55
Of course. However, as the SR5 in question belongs to Paul, I'll have to clear it with him first before sending it out. I'm sure he'll be fine with it, though! :)
Marco.
Any news on this yet marco?
Also what type of connections does it have,standard dc plug/socket,or something fancy? Can you apply the regulation mods with this psu?
Cheers.
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