Tonearm and cartridge required - Technics 1210...

[alcarmichael]

I think I've decided on which 1210 I'll be purchasing. The deck will come with a Tempest PSU but no tonearm.

This is my first TT so all advice will be appreciated. What tonearm and cartridge do you guys recommend? I'm very happy to buy 2nd hand as I think this will give me better value for money.

My music of choice is rock/pop/dance. I like a laid back, warm sound, my speakers - B&W 805's, aren't particularly bass heavy so anything that will help provide extra bass depth would be ideal.

I'll set my budget around £300. Initial research suggests that the standard tonearm is actually pretty good, but once I've bought one and had it rewired, my thinking is I may be better off going for an aftermarket arm.

[synsei]

A good start would be to source a used Jelco 750D ;)

[alcarmichael]

Any idea what the going rate is for one of these?
What cartridge should I partner it with?

[synsei]

Amazingly you can pick one up for 350 quid brand new from here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JELCO-SA-750D-BRAND-NEW-HIGH-END-TONEARM-RRP-450-/180657773347?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item2a100adb23#ht_5014wt_1163) so you are probably going to be looking at aound 250 quid for a good used one. I've not owned one myself (My 1210 is fitted with an SME Series III) but the consensus on here is that it partners very well with the Techie. Take a read through this thread (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18684&highlight=Jelco) for some excellent cartridge recommendations ;)

[DSJR]

The 805's actually have a nice "organic" kind of "passive speaker" bass. It's not boomy, but certainly isn't lacking sir! Just make sure the tweeters are above the listening position as if not, the treble detaches from the midrange in a rather strange way. Listened to on axis with the bass unit, as done on studios, everything integrates beautifully and the 805's charm the pants off you - IMO of at least two generations of the things :)

How far are you going to take the thing? If budget is fairly tight, I'd probably consider a mk5 model with superior wiring and a top flight high output cartridge (Ortofon 2M Blue/Bronze for example?) which should work well in the supplied arm. If you go for a mk2 without arm as suggested, a Jelco 750 is obviously a known goodie, preferably from the start on a wooden (Ebony?) arm board. The Neglex exit lead can be easily changed later and I'm a great fan of the similarly priced Audio Origami one, which should be amongst the best of the sub-£100 exit cables out there I reckon. The 750D will obviously take anything you care to wish for, depending on headshell and counterweight fitted and one of Hugo's arm mounting-bases is a must as well I think.

[RobbieGong]

If at all possible maybe try to spend some time with the stock arm on board. As you have heard the stock one is not that bad just not amazing compared to it's superb dd system. That said it has very good bearings and the on the fly vta is a gem (Remember you'll lose this when you go for the Jelco. A shame and a trade off i'm afraid). Once you've got used to your Techie with stock arm you can then maybe have a try with say a Jelco 750D at which point you'll be able to evaluate any benefits or if it's 'difference' suits you. Remember the stock arm is on the lightish side so try to match cart accordingly. The Jelco on the otherhand is a heavyish arm so carts that like weight ie: Denon 103's are a good match - ATB :)

[alcarmichael]

I don't really understand what 'on the fly VTA' means. Anyone able to explain it to a newbie?

[walpurgis]

VTA is vertical tracking angle. The record has a V shaped groove along which the stylus is basically 'dragged' as the record rotates. The height of the pickup arm in relation to the record surface whilst the cartridge stylus is in the groove will dictate the angle at which the stylus sits in the groove. Raise the arm height above horizontal and the stylus will have an angle which points backwards towards the oncoming rotation of the record groove, lower the arm height below horizontal and the stylus will have an angle which points away from the oncoming rotation of the record groove.

There seem to be no absolute rules about VTA. Some cartridge manufacturers make recommendations, but generally it seems that starting with the arm and cartridge level in relation to the record surface and moving the arm height up and down slightly will achieve the nominally best audible results. The difference can be subtle, but you can hear when it sounds right. Don't use a good record while you are doing this, as the stylus will leave microscopic indentations in the record groove if it is stationary, resulting in surface noise.

The 'on the fly' bit is where you have a pickup arm which has height adjustment that can be altered while the turntable is actually playing a record! Not many arms offer this and most of the time it is of limited value, as once your arm and cartridge are set up, you should not need to keep moving it up and down.

[Audio Al]

You learn something new every day :D

VTA . off to check my VTA now :lol:

[YNWaN]

Raise the arm height above horizontal and the stylus will have an angle which points backwards towards the oncoming rotation of the record groove, lower the arm height below horizontal and the stylus will have an angle which points away from the oncoming rotation of the record groove.

I think you mean the other way round.


Don't use a good record while you are doing this, as the stylus will leave microscopic indentations in the record groove if it is stationary, resulting in surface noise.

Can't say I've ever found that to be the case.

[RobbieGong]

You learn something new every day :D

VTA . off to check my VTA now :lol:

Set up = Important if you are serious about getting your deck / system sounding 'right'. VTA is one thing remeber to check that the bottom of the cartridge / stylus from the front is parallel with the record ie: not slightly lower to one side or the other, I think this is sra. All these things add up and when all set niceley can be like an upgrade where things were not right before. Throw in a bit of correct tracking force and careful anti skate adjust etc and you could well be laughing ;)

[The Grand Wazoo]

I think you mean the other way round.

It seems correct the way I read it, Mark. The important bit would be the 'oncoming rotation'.


Originally Posted by walpurgis
Raise the arm height above horizontal and the stylus will have an angle which points backwards towards the oncoming rotation of the record groove, lower the arm height below horizontal and the stylus will have an angle which points away from the oncoming rotation of the record groove.

[alcarmichael]

I've decided I'll be sticking with the original arm for the time being. Now I guess I need to decide which head shell and cartridge to go for....

Another thread coming up.

[alcarmichael]

Pardon?

[walpurgis]

I think you mean the other way round.



Can't say I've ever found that to be the case.


No and yes!

[DSJR]

Well trodden path - Sumiko headshell and maybe to start with, an Ortofon 2M Bronze, which is safe as houses and sonically inert - i.e. I very much doubt it will have aspects of its performance that will disturb any characteristics in your amp or speaker setup.

There are loads of medium compliance cartridge alternatives depending on budget, but apart from Ortofon's pricing strategy, I feel confident in the above as a safe recommendation. Some Vantage Audio feet should be frst on the list too for excellent price/performance ratio, together with a mat upgrade. Fancy bearings and power supplies can come a littl bit later methinks :) Always play the deck with lid removed too....

[alcarmichael]

Well trodden path - Sumiko headshell and maybe to start with, an Ortofon 2M Bronze, which is safe as houses and sonically inert - i.e. I very much doubt it will have aspects of its performance that will disturb any characteristics in your amp or speaker setup.

There are loads of medium compliance cartridge alternatives depending on budget, but apart from Ortofon's pricing strategy, I feel confident in the above as a safe recommendation. Some Vantage Audio feet should be frst on the list too for excellent price/performance ratio, together with a mat upgrade. Fancy bearings and power supplies can come a littl bit later methinks :) Always play the deck with lid removed too....

Thank you for the advice regarding headshell and cartridge - I'll look them up.

I'll be taking advantage of the copper platter offer (can't remember the brand off the top of my head) which can be returned if not satisfactory, by all accounts it won't be getting returned.

There will be no requirement for me to upgrade the bearing or PSU ;)

[DSJR]

Since so many of the upgrades are pricey, have a look at what Vantage Audio are doing for relative peanuts, since it's seemingly easy to do the business if you just throw money at it. Getting similar or possibly better results for far less outlay takes real talent IMO.

[chris@panteg]

Since so many of the upgrades are pricey, have a look at what Vantage Audio are doing for relative peanuts, since it's seemingly easy to do the business if you just throw money at it. Getting similar or possibly better results for far less outlay takes real talent IMO.

+1 :)