View Full Version : Wanted High Output MC cart
Looking for a low useage good quality high output M.C cart...needs to be perfect & ideally in original packaging etc
cheers
________
Looking for a low useage good quality high output M.C cart...needs to be perfect & ideally in original packaging etc
cheers
________
Having recently acquired a low output MC plug-in for my Quad66 pre amp I can go back to using my original low output cartridge.The cartridge I bought to get me going is a high output Denon DL160.It worked fine into a MM input but I no longer need it. I doubt that it has had 20 hours usage and has its box and bits as supplied.In view of its cost and usage I think £100 signed for RMSD,Is a reasonable price.Let me know if your interested.
Regards, Pete.
Having recently acquired a low output MC plug-in for my Quad66 pre amp I can go back to using my original low output cartridge.The cartridge I bought to get me going is a high output Denon DL160.It worked fine into a MM input but I no longer need it. I doubt that it has had 20 hours usage and has its box and bits as supplied.In view of its cost and usage I think £100 signed for RMSD,Is a reasonable price.Let me know if your interested.
Regards, Pete.
Can you let me think about it
thanks
I wouldn't get a high output MC if you have the option - a low output MC would be preferable in terms of sound quality.
I wouldn't get a high output MC if you have the option - a low output MC would be preferable in terms of sound quality.
I agree but my current amp only has a mm phono stage......
walpurgis
12-07-2012, 22:56
I'd endorse a choice of a DL-160. I don't like high output MCs as a whole, but the little Denon is a sweet enough sounding device with proper MC characteristics and it tracks well, it is also the quietest cartridge I've come across when it comes to surface noise, you get hardly any.
I agree but my current amp only has a mm phono stage......
To be honest, I would rather consider a SUT, or different phonostage, to accommodate a low output MC than buy a high output one. My MC already has an output of only 0.2MV and if it is replaced it is likely that the replacement will have even lower output!
Patrick Dixon
13-07-2012, 08:39
I wouldn't get a high output MC if you have the option
No, me neither. A Decca is better than any moving coil and doesn't require a MC phono stage.
walpurgis
13-07-2012, 09:00
A Decca can be excellent in the right arm and in a matching system, but how is it better than any moving coil? There are superb moving coil cartriges.
daytona600
13-07-2012, 09:05
MM can be superb as well i have a london ref & music maker le & 7 LOMC
A Decca can be excellent in the right arm and in a matching system, but how is it better than any moving coil? There are superb moving coil cartriges.
At the risk of opening up a can of worms - in my experience nothing (and I mean nothing) has the speed, attack and sheer emotional excitement of a Decca cartridge. Deccas have the flattest mid band response I have seen and if the exuberant top end can be tamed through fastidious care in installation and electrical loading, there are few cartridges that come equal.
Moving coils are smoother, sweeter and tonally more accurate and I wouldn't be without my EMTs and Ortofons, but I always have a Decca set up because it is so special and fun to use.
Patrick Dixon
13-07-2012, 18:13
but how is it better than any moving coil?
Well, I haven't heard all of them, but over the ones I have heard and/or owned, I'd take my Decca.
walpurgis
13-07-2012, 18:51
MM can be superb as well i have a london ref & music maker le & 7 LOMC
A Decca London is not an MM cartridge. It is a moving iron cartridge, operating in a manner rather like the induced magnet system employed by ADC, which were not MM either, however the influence on the static coils is similar to MM.
I'm not pedantic just for the sake of it you know!
At the risk of opening up a can of worms - in my experience nothing (and I mean nothing) has the speed, attack and sheer emotional excitement of a Decca cartridge. Deccas have the flattest mid band response I have seen and if the exuberant top end can be tamed through fastidious care in installation and electrical loading, there are few cartridges that come equal.
Moving coils are smoother, sweeter and tonally more accurate and I wouldn't be without my EMTs and Ortofons, but I always have a Decca set up because it is so special and fun to use.
The better Decca's don't have "the" treble twang of lower caste ones and many MC types have an artificial "halo" around the "unspoken channel" giving what I regard as an attractive but false sense of air, space and depth that just isn't there on the masters I've compared records with..
walpurgis
13-07-2012, 19:01
To Patrick and Barry, up until a couple of years ago I had and was using a small collection of Londons along with a couple of nice MCs, then I bought a ZYX R100 H2. To me it was a revelation, this has all the speed and incisive character of the Decca along with a huge soundstage and unbelievable transparency and detail retrieval. A safe, soft, cuddly MC, it is not. I simply find the ZYX better. The Londons are now gone and all my other MCs. I now have three ZYXs and retain five vintage ADCs though. Geoff.
A Decca London is not an MM cartridge. It is a moving iron cartridge, operating in a manner rather like the induced magnet system employed by ADC, which were not MM either, however the influence on the static coils is similar to MM.
I'm not pedantic just for the sake of it you know!
"MM" is a much used and convenient, if lazy, label for fixed-coil cartridges.
It could be argued that the Decca design is as much a vari-reluctance cartridge as it is is a moving-iron cartridge (the generator for vertical motion, is different to the generator for horizontal motion).
Hi Paul,
I agree but my current amp only has a mm phono stage......
Have you considered using a moving coil step-up transformer? You'd then be able to partner it with a low-output MC cartridge, through your MM phono stage.
The results can be stunning, and the SUTs in question start at as little as £100, or so.
Btw, which low-output MC cartridge is it you've got? :)
Marco.
No, me neither. A Decca is better than any moving coil and doesn't require a MC phono stage.
In your humble opinion, of course, Patrick!
Well, I haven't heard all of them, but over the ones I have heard and/or owned, I'd take my Decca.
Indeed. Shame that you never added the above, rather crucial details, to your original (somewhat absolutist) statement... ;)
Marco.
I liked the ZYX R100 I heard, but in the years that have passed, it's doubled in price unless I'm very much mistaken. Now, I know the pound isn't as strong as it once was, but I don't believe it's devalued by half compared to the yen, has it?
Hi Geoff,
I think we've been here before. You recommended the ZYX last time Decca vs. moving-coil designs was discussed.
If you found your previous moving-coil cartridges to be "soft and cuddly" then you weren't listening to good examples. If anything, "lush" might be a term of justified criticism that could be applied to some moving-coil designs.
Clearly such things are in the 'ear of the beholder', but until I hear a ZYX I won't be able to comment. (Why do you have three ZYX cartridges? Are they different models?)
Regards
If you found your previous moving-coil cartridges to be "soft and cuddly" then you weren't listening to good examples.
...and/or likely ones optimally matched to the partnering T/T, arm and phono stage. Was a quality SUT in the equation? I suspect not...
Geoff, out of interest, which MC cartridges was it you found to be "soft and cuddly"?
Marco.
walpurgis
13-07-2012, 20:12
I liked the ZYX R100 I heard, but in the years that have passed, it's doubled in price unless I'm very much mistaken. Now, I know the pound isn't as strong as it once was, but I don't believe it's devalued by half compared to the yen, has it?
I was refering to the R100 H2. It is very different to the R100, even if it does have the ZYX family sound.
walpurgis
13-07-2012, 20:28
Hi Geoff,
I think we've been here before. You recommended the ZYX last time Decca vs. moving-coil designs was discussed.
If you found your previous moving-coil cartridges to be "soft and cuddly" then you weren't listening to good examples. If anything, "lush" might be a term of justified criticism that could be applied to some moving-coil designs.
Clearly such things are in the 'ear of the beholder', but until I hear a ZYX I won't be able to comment. (Why do you have three ZYX cartridges? Are they different models?)
Regards
Yes, we have been here before. I'm always willing to tout the ZYXs, as they are really worth hearing.
You may be right using the term "lush" as opposed to soft and cuddly, they are just subjective terms. My sixties Ortofon SPU (now long gone) certainly was and I suppose the same could be said of the Osawa OS-60L and Supex SD900 I've had. The ZYX R50 H certainly is and sounds magnificent for it.
The R100 and R100 H2 build upon the abilities of the R50 with greater speed and analysis and in general, more of everything.
I own all three as I've kept them as I moved up the ZYX range and can't bear to part with them.
My best mate was using a Denon DL-304 (not a bad cartridge at all) and I persuaded him to try a ZYX R50 H. He was bowled over and said "there's no going back now", much the same as my thoughts.
3 pages later and all the poor guy said was"Looking for a low useage good quality high output M.C cart...needs to be perfect & ideally in original packaging etc".
Thank goodness he didn't ask for anything complicated.
Pete.
walpurgis
13-07-2012, 22:12
The thread was (once again) lost in translation!
Patrick Dixon
14-07-2012, 07:28
In your humble opinion, of course, Patrick!
Indeed. Shame that you never added the above, rather crucial details, to your original (somewhat absolutist) statement... ;)
Marco.
Marco, I don't have to hear them all to know I'm right.
:D Aye, of course!
Marco.
There are certain facts which we must acknowledge here. Decca Londons are all better than any MC. This is especially true of the soggy old SPU in its various guises which are so soft and cuddly and romantic that they are only suitable for the very, very aged to play their old classical LPs on. Indeed this is a good way to induce restful sleep in the afternoon.
Many retired, slow people like to match the SPU with valve electronics to produce a sound like a 1940's radiogram. Marco is a good example of this.
:bag::eyebrows:
:lolsign: :chainsaw:
:lies:
Marco.
walpurgis
18-07-2012, 08:58
What did you end up with Paul?
I bought a Grado Reference Platinum 1 mm cartridge to start me off (decided to stay away from a HOMC) & when funds permit will get something better...but for the moment am very pleased with the Grado...
The wooden bodied ones do seem to work nicely I found.
walpurgis
20-07-2012, 22:31
Sensible choice. I've always liked Grados. Even the cheapest models sound very pleasant.
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