View Full Version : Technics SP10 Decca London Interntional pics
http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj570/hal555/Technics%20SP10%20Decca%20London%20International/P7070004PB.jpg?t=1341724787
The plinth for this project started as a sheet of 19mm veneered ply which was cut down, after using a full size SP10 template to do the layouts, into seven sheets using the same overall dimensions as recommended in the Technics manual. Two of these were glued together to form a sub base, with the other five being cut out for the motor unit and tonearm to sit into. Four adjustable isolation feet provide the gap been the two for the power cord and tonearm cable to fit into
http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj570/hal555/Technics%20SP10%20Decca%20London%20International/P7070015PB.jpg?t=1341724479
The Decca London arm is a 99 piece limited edition put out by the HiFi News and Accessory Club about 1990 and the arm was enthusiastically reviewed by Ken Kessler. It actually dates to about the 1960s and was rewired and fitted with a magnesium headshell instead of the original
plastic (but fitted with inbuilt spirit level!) one. A unipivot, it uses magnets to provide isolation of the armtube and also has a central pillar and paddle to provide fluid damping. This hasn’t been filled as yet while I try and work out oil viscosity.
I admit to being nervous about using such an old arm, but it has turned out great. It’s a lovely vintage sound, very charismatic and has you nodding away with a big smile on your face. Even with the cheap as chips Ortofon Omega, (surely the best $30 Ebay special there is, and apparently the same as a OM3/)M5) it’s a surprisingly great listen. Ultimately it will be replaced, probably by a Nagaoka but is really enjoyable now. I used the Omega as a stopgap while I did arm alignments and fitting just in case of an accident but the arm was easy to install and is an easy fit on an SP10 owing to the small circular pillar, not all 9” arms can be fitted to an SP10 and I think Technics own arms were 10”
http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj570/hal555/Technics%20SP10%20Decca%20London%20International/P7070003PB.jpg?t=1341725213
Phono preamp, the small grey box bottom right, is a New Zealand CRAFT AUDIO unit put out in the mid 80s and is MC/MM compatable. Designed by Garry Morrison it’s a great unit, very musical, and complements everything well.
All up this is a great sounding combination with some upgrades still to be done, ie the fluid damping and better cartridge and maybe a valve phono preamp down the track. Obviously the support tower of 10c pieces is not staying! A Jelco amp lift/lower has been purchased and will be installed once a wooden post has been measured and turned.
Love the SP10, love the Decca, all up very happy indeed.
Hal55
Nice one Hal, I still need to make a plinth for my second SP10.
What work have you done to the deck its self? My second one needs some cosmetic work but I'm not sure if I'll bother....
Cosmetically nothing has been done. I've re oiled the bearing with Audio Origami oil, checked that the bearing has no rock in it and that the deck in operation is dead quiet. It passed these with flying colours. I would love to clean up the discolouration, typical of these decks with their aluminium/zinc castings, but I haven't been able to find an economical way to do it. Having a motor resprayer do them is all I've been able to find but at great cost.
Your a lucky man to have two of these fine decks!
Hal55
The OM series is a good one and although the body may not be the "Super" version, it will still take any of the OM styli. The 30 and 40 do have advantages in subtlety and the slam of the SP10 should open things out nicely methinks. BBC versions of the deck used OM Pro's and I think, Shure V15 III's for transcription (the SC35's were from a former era although the SP10 was around and in use back then, replacing the well thrashed and rumbly Gates/Gray combinations from the late 70's I think from memory).
walpurgis
08-07-2012, 21:55
I used a Colton armlift with my Decca International and it worked a treat. You find them cropping up on eBay from time to time.
The OM series is a good one and although the body may not be the "Super" version, it will still take any of the OM styli. The 30 and 40 do have advantages in subtlety and the slam of the SP10 should open things out nicely methinks. BBC versions of the deck used OM Pro's and I think, Shure V15 III's for transcription (the SC35's were from a former era although the SP10 was around and in use back then, replacing the well thrashed and rumbly Gates/Gray combinations from the late 70's I think from memory).
The Ortofon OM cartrdges are also used by the British Library for playback of their records.
Didn't think the BBC were still using Gates/Gray combos as late as the late '70s. I thought by then they had gone over to Garrard 401s or TD124s. Radio 3 used EMTs (even John Peel used an EMT 928 belt-drive deck and arm).
I may well do a stylus upgrade onthe Omega - I never expected to like it as much as I do. Either that or a Nagaoka which I think may be a good match with the type of sound I like. The reputed low surface noise on these cartridges is a big bonus as well. the MP200 would be the most I could afford to go to but should be very good. I'll have a better idea when some new vinyl I've ordered starts to arrive and I hear modern, unplayed pressings. It's all second hand stuff at the moment and very scratchy.
.
Hal55
Didn't think the BBC were still using Gates/Gray combos as late as the late '70s. I thought by then they had gone over to Garrard 401s or TD124s.
Yup, mate, they were. I have pictures somewhere of Noel Edmunds in a Radio 1 studio in 1976, with quite clearly, two Gates/Gray T/Ts by his side. Garrard 401s came before that, during the early to mid 60s (and later, TD124s), with Garrard 301s being in use sometime before that.
My understanding is that the Gates/Gray combos remained until the late 70s and were eventually replaced with SP10s, and then EMT 950s were introduced into some studios during the 80s, shortly before the 'digital revolution' arrived...
Marco.
Yup, mate, they were. I have pictures somewhere of Noel Edmunds in a Radio 1 studio in 1976, with quite clearly, two Gates/Gray T/Ts by his side. Garrard 401s came before that, during the early to mid 60s (and later, TD124s), with Garrard 301s being in use sometime before that.
My understanding is that the Gates/Gray combos remained until the late 70s and were eventually replaced with SP10s, and then EMT 950s were introduced into some studios during the 80s, shortly before the 'digital revolution' arrived...
Marco.
Rair enough - the Gates/Gray combo was probably deemed robust enough for the likes of Radio 1 DJs! :lol:
Anyway this is what Auntie was doing to Garrard 301s way back in 1956:
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/archive/pdffiles/monographs/bbc_monograph_05.pdf
If you go to the trouble of reading the text, it is impressive the thought that went into these units - even to the extent of making sure the wooden cabinets all had the same angled front: errors in carpentry could be adjusted by special hinges to give a neat apperence! :eek:
Kenny Everett was going on about the SP10's the BBC bought (playing a David Bowie single [Sound & Vision?] at 45, then 33 and instantly up to 78 :lol:) Must have been very late 70's I think, but can't remember. Those old gates decks were almost certainly shagged out after years of hammering by then. I don't think 301's or 401's were ever used in-studio in the 70's and I believe most surving ones were in the continuity booths and with a good handful dotted around local radio, again for light duties by this time I think. The 301's (with BBC bearing) were being quietly retired from all service by the early 80's I remember as this was my first exposure to an ex BBC 301 in a decent plinth - wonderful but a bit sonically grubby in extremis I remember...
Anyway this is what Auntie was doing to Garrard 301s way back in 1956:
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/archive/pdffiles/monographs/bbc_monograph_05.pdf
If you go to the trouble of reading the text, it is impressive the thought that went into these units - even to the extent of making sure the wooden cabinets all had the same angled front: errors in carpentry could be adjusted by special hinges to give a neat apperence! :eek:
Most interesting, Barry. I'll have a good read of that later! :)
Marco.
Out of idle curiousity, any idea what arms the BBC put on their decks?
Hal55
Out of idle curiousity, any idea what arms the BBC put on their decks?
Hal55
To give very quick answer: several!
Some were the BBC’s own designs (such as the MP 1/18) others were commercial designs (such as SME and EMT (when used with EMT turntables) and the Gray arm)
Taken from the website: http://www.bbceng.info/Designs/designs_sections/Recording.htm
Disk reproducers
In 1955 a sophisticated disk reproducer was produced, specifically designed for the reproduction of long-playing gramophone records, to replace the modified pre-existing 33 ⅓ r.p.m. reproducers which had been used since these records were commercially introduced. The new reproducer incorporated a high-quality commercial three-speed turntable, with the 78 r.p.m. facility removed, and a then highly regarded crystal pickup cartridge on a well-engineered arm which actuated a mechanical/optical groove-indicating device. A quick starting facility, based on the “drop-start” principle but designed to avoid damage to the delicate fine groove records, was incorporated.
In 1969 it was decided that the Goldring 800 gramophone pickup cartridge was the one best suited to the Corporation’s needs for the reproduction of both monophonic and stereophonic fine groove records. Older reproducing desks were modified to give monophonic reproduction using the new cartridge and a new desk, coded RPS/6, was designed for monophonic or stereophonic reproduction. This had all the facilities of the older desks in improved form and in addition frequency response selection and variable speed operation in the range 10 to 80 r.p.m. as well as the normal fixed speeds of 33 ⅓ r.p.m. and 45 r.p.m.
There is this photo (Taken from http://www.bbctv-ap.co.uk/film.htm)
http://www.bbctv-ap.co.uk/images/069739.jpg
showing Garrard 301s (?) fitted with a parallel tracking arm (of the BBC design) carrying an EMI Type 12 pickup (with a sapphire stylus).
Moving forward in time photos of the BBC RP2/1 using Garrard 301 turntables can be seen here: http://www.btinternet.com/~roger.beckwith/bh/grams/grams_3.htm.
It is not clear what the arm used was. It might have been the BBC designed MP1/18 arm.
The MP 1/18 arm
The Vinylengine website has a photograph. Go to 'Data' then 'Tonearm Database' then enter 'BBC' into the manufacturer box.
Description
The BBC MP1/18 was designed for use with the new range of Disk Reproducer RP2/9 and RP2/10 which use the Technics SP10mk2 turntable.
It complements the turntable performance in regard to rejection of spurious v.l.f interference. It should therefore find application with other disc reproducers using the Technics SP10mk2 turntable in either BBC or standard commercial form. (typical users are local radio and dubbing theatres)
Specifications:
Total length: 330mm
Effective length: 248mm
Mounting distance: 232.6mm
Overhang: 15.4mm
Offset angle: 21.3 degrees
Stylus pressure: 1.5 to 6.5g adjustable
There was also the EMI Angel 17A arm. This was made by EMI and came with its own moving coil cartridge. The arm was 12 inches long (pivot to stylus). The BBC used some.
http://www.rewindmuseum.com/images3/Angel17a.jpg
[Image: rewindmuseum.com]
The BBC used a variety of record playback equipment: http://www.bbceng.info/EDI%20Sheets/10358.pdf. Beside the Garrard 301s, Goldring GL75, Thorens TD124/II and Gates CB-77 turntables were used.
The Gates were usually fitted with Gray arms, possibly the Gray 108:
(Vinylengine has a photo. Follow the same procedure as for the BBC M1/18 arm)
http://www.technicalaudio.com/pdf/Gordon_Clark_folder/Gray_Research_108-B_tonearm_brochure.pdf
SME 3009 arms were used as well. Usually used with Garrard 401 and Thorens TD124/II decks. They had a modified armrest: whereby a rubber ‘claw’ replaced the SME armrest cradle with the ‘throw over’ catch. It was found that when consoles containing a turntable fitted with an SME were moved on their castors, vibrations would cause the catch to open and the arm would be thrown out of the rest!
Finally the EMT decks used (mostly 950s but some 928s and 938s) obviously used the EMT 929 arm (often fitted with Shure SC35 or Stanton cartridges).
It wouldn’t surprise me if the BBC hadn’t at some time used other arms.
Barry, that would have to be the most comprehensive answer to a question I've ever put on the "net. Thank you for your most informative reply, I had no idea the decks were used for sound effects dubbing and, in this digital age, we tend to forget that everything had to be done by hand without computer assistance not all that long ago.
How I wish the kids in the Film & TV unit of the school where I work had to do things manually rather than just running thru Mac menus......
Hal55
http://www.rewindmuseum.com/images3/Angel17a.jpg
[Image: rewindmuseum.com]
For me (as I love high-mass broadcast arms) an awesome looking thing, and one I'd love to hear on, say, and SP10 or a Garrard 301 or 401.
It looks like it comes fitted with a cartridge, I'm presuming silmilar to the Tannoy Variluctance pick-up head, used by the BBC in the 1950s...
Marco.
Haha - I thought you would like that arm. :eyebrows:
Dating from 1955, the arm could apply a tracking force in the range 3 - 10g.
The head was a moving-coil design (mono obviously!) with a diamond stylus. It had a coil impedance of 1 Ohm. An accompanying SUT was supplied, as can be seen, and through this the output was 500mV (for a groove velocity of 3cm/sec).
Interestingly, with a standard stylus (for 78rpm resords), the frequency response was 20 - 20KHz, whereas with a microgroove stylus, the response was 20 - 16.5KHz.
No idea how much the arm/head assembly cost, but I expect is wasn't cheap. I once saw one for sale in an electronics/audio shop in Manchester, fitted to a Garrard 301, sometime around 1969. :rolleyes:
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