Jelco SA750D tonearm is it that good ?

[JazzBones]

Hi folks,

Just how good is the Jelco SA750D tonearm??? I bought a pre-owned/ used one about three years ago, used it for a very short while on my then un-moodified SL1210, and then mothballed it as a spare.

After a couple of recent email exchanges with John Nilsen (J7) of Audio Origami I've posted the arm off to him for a 'look see' and overhaul. J7 tells me he's re-con'd a fair number of these Jelcos so there must be someone on here who can give me their findings on the 'before/after mod' performance :)?

Apparently, Jelco made the arm for Koetsu (?) and as I have a Koetsu Black on its way to Expert Stylus for a rebuild I thought I would marry Jelco and Keotsu up on my modded 1210 Mk2. The arm will be fitted to a S/Steve ebony armboard which currently has my AO modded Linn Ekos residing thereon. The Ekos will go back on my modded LP12 with AT09Mk2 cartridge, a better match I think :scratch:

Apart from the Jelco headshell I also have the Sumiko headshell, but apart from paintwork they look very similar? Are the more exotic headshells, such as Oyaide etc, worth a punt? Arm cabling will follow after some careful research on the subject.

Thanks for reading this and your advice is valued highly,

Ron :)

PS I noticed that Adam (Beobloke) used a Jelco SA750D with the Ortofon Xpression cartridge which retails from Henley Designs at a cool, wallet dumping £3,500.00p, erm, WOW!

[Marco]

Hi Ron,

Yes, the Jelco is very good (I used one happily for long enough), but is best for low-compliance cartridges, which like a bit of mass. The Koetsu will be fine, in that respect. What arm are you using at the moment on your modded Techy? I forget :)

As for modding the arm, I'm not sure exactly what Johnny does... Perhaps fitting some better internal cable and damping the armtube a little? With a good tonearm cable (and this is essential - I'd recommend the Greek one a few of us have been stunned by recently), the Jelco sounds excellent in stock form.

Regarding headshells, the Sumiko is virtually identical to the stock Jelco headshell, although experience showed me that the former were manufactured to a slightly higher standard, in terms of 'fit and finish'.

However, if you want more of an upgrade over the stock headshell, the Oyaide marries very well with the Jelco. There are also other 'specialist' detachable headshells from other manufacturers, which I could recommend, with different sonic signatures, due to the material used and also their construction. I've tried loads of them!

Also, try and obtain one of Shuggie's custom-made arm collars, for the Jelco, as those provide a nice upgrade, too. If you need any more info, just shout :cool:

Marco.

[JazzBones]

Hi Marco, thanks for your response and I know you have, at a past stage, used the Jelco arm long term and replaced it with an arm, I swear, looks like its from the same stable but better spected out? I bought a Shuggie collar sometime back, one of his original ones which I will of course be using. The arm currently residing on my SL1210 is my AO modded (high spec) Linn Ekos which does sound good but somehow or other does not sit comfortable, look wise, on the Tekko and married to an AT0C9 somehow seems inappropiate although quite pleasant with acoustic instruments like classical guitar, cello etc., but on massed orchestral strings in full flight sounds a bit edgy, set up is spot on. The Linn arm plus AT sounds better on my LP12. Besides, I have this gut feeling that the Jelco plus Koetsu might be it until I can lay my hands on a Koetsu arm or the the like (?) I don't want to go the SME route although they are beaut looking arms.

Cheers
Ron :)

[RobbieGong]

Hi Marco, thanks for your response and I know you have, at a past stage, used the Jelco arm long term and replaced it with an arm, I swear, looks like its from the same stable but better spected out? I bought a Shuggie collar sometime back, one of his original ones which I will of course be using. The arm currently residing on my SL1210 is my AO modded (high spec) Linn Ekos which does sound good but somehow or other does not sit comfortable, look wise, on the Tekko and married to an AT0C9 somehow seems inappropiate although quite pleasant with acoustic instruments like classical guitar, cello etc., but on massed orchestral strings in full flight sounds a bit edgy, set up is spot on. The Linn arm plus AT sounds better on my LP12. Besides, I have this gut feeling that the Jelco plus Koetsu might be it until I can lay my hands on a Koetsu arm or the the like (?) I don't want to go the SME route although they are beaut looking arms.

Cheers
Ron :)

Interesting read Ron. I've never been sure which arm is really good as in a 'clear' step up from the stock arm. I know that so many other factors come into play ie: mass / compliance etc hence I've never been in a hurry to rip out the stock arm, often people change arm to Rega, Jelco etc and still want more :scratch: The upgraded arms that tend to stay on da Techie I've noticed aint cheap. These decisions certainly aint always easy and dont always give quite the impact we may have expected in terms of immediate and substantial satisfaction. I'd love to try the funk arm mainly because it retains the on the fly vta which I always feel is a real sin and shame to have to bin, Maybe one day I will be able to take a punt and report my findings here but at nearly a grand it's a step too far for me until who knows when :(
P.S - A little surprised that in light of the number of people here who have or have had the Jelco barely any responses to the thread title have come in yet ??

[Marco]

Hi Ron,


I know you have, at a past stage, used the Jelco arm long term and replaced it with an arm, I swear, looks like its from the same stable but better spected out?


The arm I use is an Ortofon RS-212D, shown on my T/T (as per my avatar):


http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/3784/2014489200071997495s600.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/254/2014489200071997495s600.jpg/)


I think that it's also made by Jelco, for Ortofon, but the engineering quality is of a much higher standard than that on the SA-750. It also costs £2100! The arm you're thinking of is probably the Ortofon 'TA-110', shown here:


http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6641/ortofonta110tonearm.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/ortofonta110tonearm.jpg/)


...which is basically a 'tarted-up' Jelco SA-750, with a few tweaks. It's a very good arm, though!


I bought a Shuggie collar sometime back, one of his original ones which I will of course be using.


Nice one - those give a notable improvement.


The arm currently residing on my SL1210 is my AO modded (high spec) Linn Ekos which does sound good but somehow or other does not sit comfortable, look wise, on the Tekko and married to an AT0C9 somehow seems inappropiate although quite pleasant with acoustic instruments like classical guitar, cello etc., but on massed orchestral strings in full flight sounds a bit edgy...


I'm not too surprised, really, as the OC9 is quite a bright sounding cartridge anyway, and the Ekos will be looking for the mid-bass 'bloom' of an LP12, to ameliorate its tendency also to be rather 'zingy', at the top-end: otherwise known as 'synergy'. Whereas, the Tecky; being much more sonically neutral than an LP12, will simply be showing up the inherent colorations of both the Ekos and the OC9.


Besides, I have this gut feeling that the Jelco plus Koetsu might be it until I can lay my hands on a Koetsu arm or the the like (?) I don't want to go the SME route although they are beaut looking arms.


I would suspect the Jelco/Koetsu combination to work very well, but I'd advise you to invest in a quality tonearm cable (and top-notch headshell) to allow the Jelco to perform optimally, and thus show the Koetsu, sonically, in its best light. Let us know how you get on :cool:

Marco.

[gx502]

My $0.02 worth.

I am a using a SA-750D on SL1210MK5, and I am very happy with it.

Experience with it reveals, as per Marco's comment, that it is a very good arm that punches above its weight, provided it is used with low-ish compliance carts.

(Elsewhere in HFW I read that it also works well with the new Goldring G2500. Also read stuff elsewhere that the SA-750D works well with the Nagaoka MP-500. But I have not experienced these carts personally.

The SA-750D also worked well with my Nagaoka-Stilton TS-12 Boron MM cart, which tracks at 1.8 grams and is medium compliance.

I also got excellent results with the SA-750D and a Denon DL-301MKII in conjunction with a Audio Technica AT-LH13 metal/ceramic headshell. With this combo, i made use of the damping feature of the arm, but it was not too shabby w/o damping. Adding the damping oil with the DL-301MKII, made things a tad smoother.)

Presently, I am getting very good results with the Jelco and a Ortofon Kontrapunkt-B, and a Ortofon LH-6000 headshell.

As far as I know the arm-tube on the SA-750D is internally foam damped.

The only other point I would make is that the performance of the SA-750D can be improved by better headshells. I am using a LH-6000 with my Kontra-B, and it was a massive step-up from the stock headshell, and the LH-6000 is a pretty reasonable $80 part. Also I got a AT-LH13 and 15 from HK via ebay, and they cost approx $50+postage, again very worthwhile improvement over the stock headshell.

(I have one of Shuggie's, custom collars but not yet taken any time to fit the thing, since i have not done much listening of late!!)

Provided you are using the SA-750D with a cart that is a good match up with the arm, then I think in order to beat it you need to spend big bucks.

All IMHO, YMMV

[JazzBones]

Thanks all, for the interest. My Jelco SA750D is now with AO/J7 so I'm waiting to hear from him.

A slight drift from this thread but still with Jelco in mind. I have seen on the inty that there are Jelco similar SME type headshells in black with the gold Kranji (Chinese characters adopted by the Japanese) lettering, which reads 'Koetsu'. These attractive little headshells look as if they have been made by Jelco... think Sumiko headshell but with the Koetsu lettering on top, for Koetsu owners... for sale at £260.00 and skywards, gulp? I don't think that these Koetsu headshells would contribute anything superior than Jelco's own, and of course the Sumiko (..also Jelco?). Is Oyaide the only one to have a superior shell... what about Furutech?

Cheers
Ron :scratch:

[mike1210]

I have the Jelco on my 1210 and love it. Really matches the 1210 well in sound and looks IMO.

Was using it with a Denon DL160 and now got a Denon 103R on the way, looking forward to that.

Mine is standard via the Shuggie collar (excellent) but I will loom to get a better head shell to match the 103.

Mike:)

[Tea24]

I use the 750D on my modified Lenco GL75 with Shure M97xE fitted with Jico SAS, also with Nagaoka MP150 and it works very well indeed. I have never used the damping.

[DSJR]

Ron, may I dive in here?

By using an Ekos, in whatever state of tune, on a techie, and irrespective of the cartridge, you may just be on a recipe for disaster if the mounting plate is a metal one. The Ittok/Ekos arms ring at high frequencies to a greater or lesser extent and a direct coupling to an aluminium arm-plate botled tightly to the plinth *may not* be the best way for sonic bliss with these arms - just my thoughts obviously. I personally wouldn't use these two together based on instinct..... Oh alright, I was forgetting the Keel and Rubykon with the LP12 being solid aluminium but whether these would work with the cast top plates now being marketed for what's left of the original fruitbox is anyone's guess

OC9? Whatever posessed you sir? After a Koetsu Black, any AT moving coil is going to sound astringent to a degree - and this into Naim and SBL's too? Blimey, your lugs must be nearly as bad as mine :lol: Much as I like the crisp AT's in the right system, I'm really not sure about this one chez Jazzbones myself ;)

I think the 750D is a great value tonearm, bearing in mind the stupid prices asked for anything regarded as "top end..." these days. Once you have it back from Johnnie (I hope the re-wire was worth the trouble as I doubt the supplied wires are that bad to start with). Hugo's mounting base is a must judging by all the comments and I'd probably look for a hard-wood arm-board, as well as a suitable headshell, which seems essential for best performance of these types of tonearm.

[Spectral Morn]

Ron, may I dive in here?

By using an Ekos, in whatever state of tune, on a techie, and irrespective of the cartridge, you may just be on a recipe for disaster if the mounting plate is a metal one. The Ittok/Ekos arms ring at high frequencies to a greater or lesser extent and a direct coupling to an aluminium arm-plate botled tightly to the plinth *may not* be the best way for sonic bliss with these arms - just my thoughts obviously. I personally wouldn't use these two together based on instinct..... Oh alright, I was forgetting the Keel and Rubykon with the LP12 being solid aluminium but whether these would work with the cast top plates now being marketed for what's left of the original fruitbox is anyone's guess

OC9? Whatever posessed you sir? After a Koetsu Black, any AT moving coil is going to sound astringent to a degree - and this into Naim and SBL's too? Blimey, your lugs must be nearly as bad as mine :lol: Much as I like the crisp AT's in the right system, I'm really not sure about this one chez Jazzbones myself ;)

I think the 750D is a great value tonearm, bearing in mind the stupid prices asked for anything regarded as "top end..." these days. Once you have it back from Johnnie (I hope the re-wire was worth the trouble as I doubt the supplied wires are that bad to start with). Hugo's mounting base is a must judging by all the comments and I'd probably look for a hard-wood arm-board, as well as a suitable headshell, which seems essential for best performance of these types of tonearm.

Not so the AT 33 EV, it has an even handed tonality with no forwardness or brightness which is a characteristic of many of the other AT carts; though it has to said that the new examples are more even handed than those I heard from the early 90's

[JazzBones]

Ron, may I dive in here?

By using an Ekos, in whatever state of tune, on a techie, and irrespective of the cartridge, you may just be on a recipe for disaster if the mounting plate is a metal one. The Ittok/Ekos arms ring at high frequencies to a greater or lesser extent and a direct coupling to an aluminium arm-plate botled tightly to the plinth *may not* be the best way for sonic bliss with these arms - just my thoughts obviously. I personally wouldn't use these two together based on instinct..... Oh alright, I was forgetting the Keel and Rubykon with the LP12 being solid aluminium but whether these would work with the cast top plates now being marketed for what's left of the original fruitbox is anyone's guess

OC9? Whatever posessed you sir? After a Koetsu Black, any AT moving coil is going to sound astringent to a degree - and this into Naim and SBL's too? Blimey, your lugs must be nearly as bad as mine :lol: Much as I like the crisp AT's in the right system, I'm really not sure about this one chez Jazzbones myself ;)

I think the 750D is a great value tonearm, bearing in mind the stupid prices asked for anything regarded as "top end..." these days. Once you have it back from Johnnie (I hope the re-wire was worth the trouble as I doubt the supplied wires are that bad to start with). Hugo's mounting base is a must judging by all the comments and I'd probably look for a hard-wood arm-board, as well as a suitable headshell, which seems essential for best performance of these types of tonearm.

Dave me old mate, the Ekos is wedded to a Speedy Steve's ebony wood arm plate, I made sure that my Ekos would not go on metal to metal. My Jelco will also go on the same ebony arm board plus Koetsu. The Ekos (AO) will go back on my Linn plus AT cartridge where it is better suited methinks:)

Believe me, I've tuned my Naims (Avondale) so they sound so sweet through my SBLS which once belonged to Julian Vereker... a pair of Townshend super tweeters calms everything down believe it or not. I'm going to borrow a pair of LW's speaker cables for the Naims as I've heard good reports... he's also done a new cross over for the SBLs... interesting.

Cheers
Ron :thumbsup:

[JazzBones]

Not so the AT 33 EV, it has an even handed tonality with no forwardness or brightness which is a characteristic of many of the other AT carts; though it has to said that the new examples are more even handed than those I heard from the early 90's

Hi there Neil, I think that David Price, in answer to a reader's question, said that the AT33EV leaned towards a Koetsu style sound, at the back of my mind I considered buying an AT33EV but it was cheaper to have my Koetsu overhauled by Expert Stylus Co., he can't do the job until November, he's that booked out!

Whilst you might be reading this Neil, howz the comparison PSU for the Tech going, I'm hanging around waiting to see if I should move from my TS HE which is a great little unit and won't short out your PCB :lol: Erm, it is you carrying out the comparisons isn't it?

Ron

[DSJR]

Dave me old mate, the Ekos is wedded to a Speedy Steve's ebony wood arm plate, I made sure that my Ekos would not go on metal to metal. My Jelco will also go on the same ebony arm board plus Koetsu. The Ekos (AO) will go back on my Linn plus AT cartridge where it is better suited methinks:)

Believe me, I've tuned my Naims (Avondale) so they sound so sweet through my SBLS which once belonged to Julian Vereker... a pair of Townshend super tweeters calms everything down believe it or not. I'm going to borrow a pair of LW's speaker cables for the Naims as I've heard good reports... he's also done a new cross over for the SBLs... interesting.

Cheers
Ron :thumbsup:

I remember your system years ago sounded the best I'd then heard passive SBL's and it was only the later bass drivers that helped others in livelier situations.

TQ cables with older Naim amps may be alright, but the bubble is expanding quite fast and my money at this moment would be on stalwarts like the VDH Wind myself, which despite any fancy internal strands, has a superior gauge of conductor in each connector. I worry that a new cable is SO superior as to make all that went before redundant, if you know what I mean. Either the listener has gone hyper-tuned over it, or the cable is doing summat it shouldn't - IMO.....

[Marco]

I worry that a new cable is SO superior as to make all that went before redundant, if you know what I mean. Either the listener has gone hyper-tuned over it, or the cable is doing summat it shouldn't - IMO.....

;)

Marco.

[Barry]

This (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2211) might be of interest to all parties. You can then decide how close the Jelco- made Koetsu arm is to the 750D.

[MartinT]

Ron - just one point. The supplied arm cable for Jelcos is the red Neglex (I had one on my SA-250ST) and leaves a lot to be desired. You can do a lot better by ordering a Greek Yannis cable for your 750D. It won't break the bank.

[JazzBones]

Ron - just one point. The supplied arm cable for Jelcos is the red Neglex (I had one on my SA-250ST) and leaves a lot to be desired. You can do a lot better by ordering a Greek Yannis cable for your 750D. It won't break the bank.

Hi there Martin, I never used the Neglex arm cable I got when I bought the Jelco, which is still brand virginal new in its packaging somewhere in the loft; must find it and flog it, but thanks for the info. I'm currently using the superb arm cable from J7 of Audio Origami (van Damme?) which is good but my interest in the Yannis cable has just kicked in... know if it will work with Naim pre-amp???

Hi Barry, that Koetsu arm looks a beauty but is it looks only... anyone know differently, I would still like one :confused:

DaveO, sometime back I was told the VD 'The Wind' speaker cable was the dingo's danglies with Naim power amps but this was a long time ago and pre-dates me beard which I'm now off to trim!

Thanks all and keep the info a comin'

Ron

[MartinT]

know if it will work with Naim pre-amp???

No idea, Ron. Some have phonos and some DIN connectors and it should work if you get the right connector but I am not a Naim specialist.

[DSJR]

The Van Damme is a worthy but dirt cheap cable in all honesty and I rate it highly for general arm-exit duties. Johnnie does his nice right-angle plug on the end and this works a treat I think, especially with suspended chassis decks like the TD125 I used with the R200 and AO cable.

Hopefully, the better ones recommended here will sound like the Van Damme, but "better," if you see what I mean :)


P.S. Did you know me during the time I wore a full beard? Was accused of hiding behind it so took it off. Now encouraged to grow a goatee, so should suit this crabby old Capricorn :lol:

[indus]

Ron - just one point. The supplied arm cable for Jelcos is the red Neglex (I had one on my SA-250ST) and leaves a lot to be desired. You can do a lot better by ordering a Greek Yannis cable for your 750D. It won't break the bank.


Hi Martin

Are you talking about some internal wire in the Jelco? I bought a second hand Jelco 750 a few months ago and it didn't come with a tonearm cable.

Thanks

[MartinT]

No - I'm talking about the external red Neglex cable. It's an option so won't come with every arm.

[JazzBones]

Got my refurbed Jelco back from J7 of AO (Audio Origami), he's a really beaut guy to deal with. The arm now has Cardas OFC internal wiring, retaining the SME detachable cartridge headshell fixing. When MCRU gets back from hols I'm going for the Oyaide HS TF carbon fibre headshell with copper wire as opposed to the silver wired version as the micro signal from the cartridge will travel along OFC all the way to the pre-amp without variance twix copper and silver, this in tandem with my ebony armboard, should make a good match for my Keotsu Black. Haruo Uchida of Jelco says that the effective mass of the Jelco SA750D is 20 grams, but J7/AO reckons its about 15 grams MINUS headshell and screw fittings. Yamamoto make an ebony wood headshell by the way which has piqued my interest but that will be a long time down the line?

Talking Koetsu, I've been amazed at how close the resemblance to the Jelco 750 arm the Koetsu arm is and amazed at the price differential! Like my 1210 I have wanted to take the Jelco 750 to its performance limit stopping short at Yannis silver Litz arm cable as I've been warned that Litz is a no no with Naim equipment, unless, of course, someone with authority can tell me otherwise :confused:

Have to be wait until November when everything will go together.

Word of advice from J7 to Jelco 750 owners, don't tighten down the screw top where the damping fluid can be applied... there is the possibility of impeding the arm freedom of movement. A half way tightening movement will suffice

Cheers

Ron

[Spectral Morn]

Had a read of the Jelco 750D review in HFi Choice today and I must say I found it an odd review as it was clear to me fairly quickly that synergy between my (I admit fairly old) Lyra cart and the 750D arm was lacking big time when I tried it a wee while ago, so I was surprised the reviewer got good results with his.

Any views on this.

[krugdoktor]

Hi Ron
had a Jelco 750D for a short while (about 3 weeks) then going for an SME V (always my dream arm!). Catridge was an EMT JSD6, headshell was the stock Jelco one, cable was also Jelco and the sound was fantastic! After buying the V I realised what the law of diminishung returns means, because the V was clearly better but not the amount of the price difference! Anyway I have my dream arm now but can wholeheartedly recommend the Jelco as screaming bargain even with a not so easy cartridge as an EMT!
Michael

[JazzBones]

Hi Ron
had a Jelco 750D for a short while (about 3 weeks) then going for an SME V (always my dream arm!). Catridge was an EMT JSD6, headshell was the stock Jelco one, cable was also Jelco and the sound was fantastic! After buying the V I realised what the law of diminishung returns means, because the V was clearly better but not the amount of the price difference! Anyway I have my dream arm now but can wholeheartedly recommend the Jelco as screaming bargain even with a not so easy cartridge as an EMT!
Michael

Hi there Michael, I see you,re back from holidays, hope it was a good one :).
Thanks for your view point on the Jelco, I'm treating the venture as I did my Tekko, theres more mileage to be had sort of thing.

Ron

[DSJR]

Ron, you don't need silly price headshells - a total waste of dosh IMO. The Koetsu Black (is it the same one I fitted all those centuries ago?) is NOT a microphonic cartridge so shouldn't feed too much energy into the arm. Mine when working was excellent in the (far more) resonant Dual arm.....

By the way, I have it on very good authority that almost ALL copper wires are "oxygen free" these days and often share the same supplier ;)

[kininigin]

So what's the verdict ron,was it worth getting it rewired?

[mike1210]

Ron - just one point. The supplied arm cable for Jelcos is the red Neglex (I had one on my SA-250ST) and leaves a lot to be desired. You can do a lot better by ordering a Greek Yannis cable for your 750D. It won't break the bank.

May I ask where I would get one of those? I have the cable in question:(

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

You can contact Yannis at: info@back-promo.co.uk requesting any information you want. The cable you're looking for is called the 423.5 Phono Litz 'Special'.

The basic cable can be bought here on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/423-5Phono-Litz-Pure-OCC-silver-Litz-shielded-tonearm-cable-StarQuad-/221057416237?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Ca bles_Adapters&hash=item33780c7c2d

However, if you want what Martin's referring to, you'll have to factor in the addition of a Furutech CF-DIN(R), shown here: http://www.partsconnexion.com/FTECH-74315.html

...and some Eichmann Silver Bullet Plug RCAs, shown here: http://www.partsconnexion.com/product1874.html

That's what makes it a 'special'.

Thoroughly recommended! :)

Marco.