calling all valve experts

[daytona600]

Nb - for all non uk forum members calling all tube experts

what are the best sounding of these types , fancy some tube rolling

let the thread commence , or any good prices from members new or Nos

12AX7
12AT7
12AU7
6P6P
5Z3P
300B

[myles]

Hey Scott, this could be the start of a useful thread. Can I add 12AU7 to the mix, and ask for budget doozies to be included?

[Ali Tait]

Electro harmonix gold grids are a good sounding 300b for reasonable prices from those I've heard. As for ecc82 and 83, probably the usual suspects for NOS - mullard, telefunken etc. Prices are rising though.

[Ali Tait]

A good UK valve source for EH's. They sell a lot of other types too.

http://www.hotroxuk.com/matched-valves-links-page-12ax7-6l6-909-0/electro-harmonix-300b-gold-grid.html

[realysm42]

Do you guys buy in bulk, given you know they've got a finite life, or take your chances as and when one goes bang?

[jaym481]

Both. I've bought in bulk (I have about 20 MOV/GEC KT66s around, and a similar number of various NOS 5751s) and suffered from no spares (in this case relatively new Shuguang Treasures).

As to the OP, the "best" sound is really something personal. The aforementioned Telefunken and Mullard etc all have a different presentation, as do new stock. It has to be tried in combination with the equipment.

What do I like? In my Leak amp, there's no substitute for the Mullard ECC83 (12AX7), but in my Chinese integrated I honestly cant tell the difference between Mullard ECC88s and the stock Chinese 6P1s (the amp is designed to accept the different valves).

[Ali Tait]

Yep, it's all amp dependent.

[SPS]

Yep, it's all amp dependent.

thats sort of true ali...

you could also say that with some setups the differences are not apparent..

that dont mean the old valves are not better, so far i've not heard 'any' new production valves that i think are better than the old ones... even when others say the opposite..
i think we listen for different things, we all pick up on different aspects of the musical presentation and ultimately we can only hear what the particular system allows you to hear,
that's why many go on how good a lesser system is... and thats the main issue with internet/written evaluations..

[Ali Tait]

Aye, have to agree there Steve, there is something special about the old triodes. Those 300a's of yours are still one of the best sounds I've ever heard.

[Jonboy]

stiil think the 2A3 sounds better than a 300b but as you say it is all amp dependant, 45 still tops with me at the moment it just does everything well

[Ali Tait]

Yes, I like the 45 too, also the 2a3. As for 300b's, one amp of Nick's I heard using 300b's is again one of the very best sounds I've come across. Great sound can be had from them, it's just not as easy as it is with 2a3 and 45 IMHO.

[daytona600]

stiil think the 2A3 sounds better than a 300b but as you say it is all amp dependant, 45 still tops with me at the moment it just does everything well

agree have both 300b & 2a3 amps seem very overlooked & under-rated
posted a 2a3c 9wp SET integrated in classified section recently for a couple of hundred quid and still had no replys

6897

[FidelityArt]

Russian triode 6C33S

[The Grand Wazoo]

So can anyone else help Scott with recommendations for valve brands to try?

[camtwister]

I'm not a 'valve expert' but I have spent the past two years rolling dual triodes galore in my pre and power amps.
For fun. It keeps me out of the pub.
Search this forum for the rolling threads; the OP's question has been discussed at length.

If you wish to purchase valves in current production from the 12A?7 family, my recommendations are the Genalex branded Gold Lion variants from the Russian New Sensor factory.
Also, although very recently discontinued, the Chinese TJ Full Music are worth the premium. These two brands, in my opinion, are superior to the other current production alternatives because of lower noise floor, frequency extension, linearity of response and perceived quality of construction (based on external visual inspection only).
I have not heard any of the Psvane tubes to date.

Used (and genuine NOS - if you have deep pockets) valves are wonderful things to own.
Finding a curious bottle that works unexpectedly well in a specific application will bring gaiety to your life.
You will find descriptions smeared all over the Web about the sonic characteristics of old valves.
They are generalisations in the most outstretched sense.
In my experience, the variation in sample quality (simply due to age, storage conditions and administration nevermind deviation in production) dilutes these broad sonic flavour maps to the point that literal interpretation is unprofitable.
Having made that pronouncement, I'll now offer my opinion in much the same way. So at the risk of being impeached: anything manufactured by GEC should be acquired without any deliberation.
Dual triodes made under the Philips umbrella in the 1950s at the Hamburg, Sittard or Heerlen factories are superb.
Valvos have the coolest typeface and Bugleboys have the cutest logo.

American 12A?7 tubes that I prefer are the 17mm long-plate black anode RCAs from the 1950s with angled D-getters.
Also, early 1960s Raytheon versions with windmill getters and red printing are phat.

[Ali Tait]

Most genuine NOS will sound good, but it's pointless describing how they sound, as they will give completely different results depending on the amp used IMHO.

[Ali Tait]

BTW, tread carefully on ebay, a lot of stuff being sold as NOS will be no such thing.

[worrasf]

Nb - for all non uk forum members calling all tube experts

what are the best sounding of these types , fancy some tube rolling

let the thread commence , or any good prices from members new or Nos

12AX7
12AT7
12AU7
6P6P
5Z3P
300B

Hi Scott

A vexed question if ever there was one ;)

IME it is very system/component dependent. Valves that sound good in my Croft 25R preamp don't do as well in my Croft s4s - and the SOHA II headphone amp is an different ball game again with 6 volt tubes (6N1P-VI) sounding better than my previous gold standard 12 v NOS GE 5814 5-star.

This is great place to start: http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/ECC83.htm
and http://www.audiotubes.com/12at7.htm

Both sites have pages on multiple valve types.

But what I can say in the context of the kit I have used them in is the following.

12AX7A's - RCA 1960's NOS brilliant depth, clarity and dynamics
ECC83's - Phillips Miniwatt 1960's NOS - deep bass, good control, open , warm but not overly so.
ECC801s Telefunken - 1950's NOS - crystal clear, amazing highs but perhaps a bit too thin
GE A2900 (ecc81) - simply brilliant
Brimar yellow T 6090 - a budget simply brilliant

BUT - while all the above is true and took me yonks to get to I have now put Full Music 12AX7's in the Croft preamp and am amazed how darn good they are :stalks:

If you have any Croft kit I can give you lots of thoughts on my valve swapping journey but its really down to trial an error.

BTW - in my experience I have been disappointed with Electro Harmonix 12AT7's and JJ Tesla (new production)

I'm also less than impressed by so called "cryo" valves. I spent £50 a pop on Cryo Harma 6922 SQ's from Watford Valves and IMHO the soviet 6N1P- VI's at £7 better them in my SOHA II headphone amp.

Steve

[Ali Tait]

Yes, the 6n1p and 6n6p are cheap as chips and very good indeed. Getting close matching can be problematic though.

[worrasf]

Yes, the 6n1p and 6n6p are cheap as chips and very good indeed. Getting close matching can be problematic though.

The VI versions are specially selected and matched so go for the 6N1P-VI - still only £7 a pop.

Steve

[Ali Tait]

I don't use any currently, though my valve dac uses 6n6p.

[daytona600]

cheers for all the help guys will start trying some in the near future
agree most on ebay have very dubious NOS heritage
alright in small signal types at resonable costs
but could get very costly in the bigger types
my amps use 12 x 12AX7 & 12 x 300b + 4x12AU7 & 2x300B in headphone amp

[Ali Tait]

12?? What's the amp?

[daytona600]

6898
12?? What's the amp?

T300PP dared monoblocks www.daredtube.com very rare but brill sorry mis-typed there are actually 16 300b tubes

[Ali Tait]

Bloody hell, I wouldn't like to revalve those! No wonder you are looking for good deals.

[myles]

6898

T300PP dared monoblocks www.daredtube.com very rare but brill sorry mis-typed there are actually 16 300b tubes


Bloody hell Scott, you only just revealed earlier that you are a bit of a money savvy Celt. No expense spared on the valves, eh?

[daytona600]

sound excellent with standard shuguang 300b-98 valves these are readily available for under £50 each , 2 octets cost about £ 750
re money savvy they do cut down on heating bills in the winter as they also double as radiators in the cold scottish winters
but just looking at higher spec units eg shuguang black treasures , TJ full musics , Emission labs etc but these will be around £2k a pop ,forget NOS noticed last month one western electric went for $2000

[daytona600]

just sorting out a VERY big order if anyone wants to join in
very high quality valves via a amplfier manufacturer annual contract
not limited to the following but these are the bulk ones
12AU7
6SN7
12AT7
12AX7
300B
KT88
2A3
211
845

[myles]

just sorting out a VERY big order if anyone wants to join in
very high quality valves via a amplfier manufacturer annual contract
not limited to the following but these are the bulk ones
12AU7
6SN7
12AT7
12AX7
300B
KT88
2A3
211
845
What kind of prices are we looking for, for 2x12AX7 and 2x12AU7?

[daytona600]

£20 each huge discount of list price

[Greg2010]

Hi Scott,
what price do you have for the 300b ?

[Mike]

And the 211? :)

[nightyy]

Also interested in the 300B!

Gesendet von meinem XT910 mit Tapatalk 2

[daytona600]

12AX7 £ 20 each
12AT7 £ 20
12AU7 £ 20
6SN7 £ 40
6SL7 £ 40
KT88 £ 99
211 £ 160
845 £ 160
2A3C £ 120
2A3C/se £ 195
300b £ 55
300b/n £ 109
300b/c £ 149
300b/se £ 195
tj full music matched pairs
1st batch almost gone , 2nd batch already started
for prices & data www.partsconnexion.com
also 45 274b px 212 & others

[daytona600]

£ 600 each from another supplier for a new cloned version of WE300b in presentation box. manufacturer claims they sound better the orginal western electric
also new 212 clone £ 800 each in presentation box
i have a 5.0 300b AV system for sacd/blu-ray so i bought a lot of tubes

[Mike]

What make are the 211 @ £160 each? :scratch:

[Ali Tait]

£ 600 each from another supplier for a new cloned version of WE300b in presentation box. manufacturer claims they sound better the orginal western electric
also new 212 clone £ 800 each in presentation box
i have a 5.0 300b AV system for sacd/blu-ray so i bought a lot of tubes

Who makes the 212? If it's any good that's a good price when you compare it to NOS. doubt they will compare though..

[daytona600]

all tj full music New BNIB
212 waiting on data sheets

[daytona600]

212 NOS go your up to $2500 each

some reviewers actually prefer the sound of 300b/se to orginal WE



Who makes the 212? If it's any good that's a good price when you compare it to NOS. doubt they will compare though..

[daytona600]

What make are the 211 @ £160 each? :scratch:

6938