View Full Version : MCRU Ultimate mains power lead
realysm42
25-06-2012, 18:40
A few months ago I took the plunge and upgraded my the power lead for my amp; I asked David what he recommended, he said to spend no more that £200 based on the level of amp I own (very honest of him) but I decided to make an investment (as I'm always planning to upgrade things) so I though I'd get something I'd hopefully never have to replace and bought one of these instead:
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/mains-cables-/11-mains-cables-r-us-ultimate-mains-power-lead.html
(Except with the Furutech FI-50 IEC and Furutech Rhodium plug upgrades).
Service was quick and painless, got it quickly and in the quality of finish I've come to expect from David. I can give you a brief overview of the product, I'm no pro reviewer so please bare with me.
Initial impressions weren't as amazing as I'd predicted at the outset; David did tell me to wait about 100 hours before hearing the full impact. So I waited.
I've literally just swapped the Ultimate lead out with a generic kettle lead and the difference is very real. Playing Dry the River's "Animal skins" (a track I know well) was an interesting experience; gone was the texture of the instruments I'd grown used to, but it wasn't too bad. Atleast until the tune kicked in properly, I wish I could have seen my face; it sounded a mess!
Timing was off, depth was gone and the overall cohesion of the sound was lost. I mean, if you spend a lot on something, you expect better performance but I wasn't prepared for that! I've tried a few other tracks I know and love and the difference remains apparent.
The main strength of the Ultimate power lead is the togetherness of the sound it presents, treble sounds a lot more detailed and less harsh.
When my M-dac is fixed and back in the loop; I think I'll repeat this experiment again.
Given his recommendations on what I should have spent on the cable initially, I'm thinking that the difference in quality would be more appraent the more revealing my equipment becomes; something I'm looking to finding out in a few years when the upgrade comes :)
Thanks for the cable mate, I'll be back for more in the future no doubt :cool:
jandl100
26-06-2012, 07:15
Jeepers Creepers.
You went from a standard £2 kettle lead to a £500 item. :wowzer:
You should have stuck to Dave's advice and dipped your toe in the water first! ;)
In all honesty, your money would have been better spent elsewhere.
... or have I been suckered in by a wind-up? :lol:
realysm42
26-06-2012, 07:23
No wind up and I have dipped my toes in the water, although I didn't make that clear above, so apologies for that; I got one of these for a few months before:
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/mains-cables-/143-the-audio-asylum-mains-power-cord.html
Impressed by what I'd heard, I then upgraded to the above.
You're not the first to have told me as much with the way I buy things but I see it like this; the only upgrades I'll be making in future are my speakers and amp and they're most likely going to cost a lot more than I have available to me right now or for some time, so while I'm in this position, I see no harm in upgrading things that I'll never want to change (speaker cable, power leads, infrastructure if you like).
jandl100
26-06-2012, 07:28
Gosh.
Well ... I'm a bit at a loss for words here! ... we all spend our £££ as we wish.
You're happy? That's fine. :thumbsup:
I see you have Tellurium Ultra speaker cable as well. :eek: I respect a guy who puts his money where his mouth (or keyboard finger!) is. :)
I don’t think it works like that.
If you are going to hear a difference between loudspeaker cables it will probably be because of changes to cable properties interacting with your amplifier and speakers.
What may work well with a particular combination may not sound so good when say the speakers or amplifier get changed. Some amplifiers tend to be less stable with high capacitance cables for example.
So, the idea that one can buy the best/most affordable cables and successfully swap kit around them is fallacious imo. Yer doing it wrong.
As for spending five hundred pounds on a mains lead :doh:
Hi Martin,
Congrats on your purchase of one of David's Ultimate mains leads, which I use to great effect throughout my system. I'm glad that you seem to like it. However, I wouldn't have recognised them from this description:
I've literally just swapped it out with a generic kettle lead and the difference is very real. Playing Dry the River's "Animal skins" (a track I know well) was an interesting experience.
Gone was the texture of the instruments I'd grown used to, but it wasn't too bad. Atleast until the tune kicked in properly, I wish I could have seen my face; it sounded a mess!
Timing was off, depth was gone and the overall cohesion of the sound was lost. I mean, if you spend a lot on something, you expect better performance but I wasn't prepared for that! I've tried a few other tracks I know and love and the difference remains apparent.
:eek: :scratch: :confused:
...especially when upgrading from a bog-standard kettle lead! What you've written above is completely alien to my experience of the Ultimates.
In my system, upgrading from MG DSP 2.5s (fitted with the same Furutech connectors as on the Ultimates, therefore it was simply an upgrade of the wire used inside the power lead itself), the Ultimates produced a much bigger, bolder, sound, with significantly better detail retrieval, due to a subjectively perceivable lower noise-floor and less distortion.
Bass became tighter, more extended and more tuneful, and the top-end sweeter sounding and more expressive, making the DSP 2.5s sound somewhat dynamically restricted in comparison. The latter are by no means 'sonic slouches'; indeed I used them happily for some time before upgrading them to the Ultimates, but the Ultimates take sonic performance to an altogether higher level, simply by making music sound more 'right'.
For me, there is definitely something in the 'Ohno Continuous Casting' process, used to produce the Furukawa PCOCC-A soild-core copper wire, as featured in the Ultimates, which makes them perfrom as the closest thing to hard-wiring your equipment directly to the mains supply.
I've long believed that the purity of the conductor material (whether copper or silver) makes a huge difference to the performance of both mains and signal cables, more so than the actual material the conductor is made from, and you can't get much purer than copper Furukawa use. Here's an interesting article on the subject of the Furukawa OCC process:
http://www.kosmic.us/pcocc-a-by-furukawa.html
You can see that there are some pretty good reasons there why the Furukawa copper wire used is rather special!
Martin, I notice that you bought the lead to use on your amp. Can you try it on your main source component instead, and see what happens?
When upgrading mains cables, you should always start at the source first, and then work through the rest of your system, as you'll realise bigger improvements that way. Furthermore, you'll find that the Ultimates will take around a week of continuous use to fully burn-in.
Therefore, try the Ultimate lead on your main source component, and then switch back to your kettle lead, after a week, and then see what happens! ;)
Marco.
realysm42
26-06-2012, 10:12
Main source as in my pc? That's the only thing that I play music through/from.
Also, you're not the first person to be puzzled by what I've written, so perhaps it's my mistake; in the part you've quoted, I meant that when putting the generic kettle lead back in (after allowing a lot more that 100 hours burn in time on the ultimate) all of the goodness I'd become accustommed to suddenly vanished, have I not made that clear?
I'm on a course of steroids right now and not been thinking so straight so please let me know, I'll ammend it if it's the case; I meant to illustrate how GOOD the Ultimate lead is, not the other way around lol.
Main source as in my pc? That's the only thing that I play music through/from.
Ok, try it on your M-DAC, instead, and see what happens! I presume that the M-DAC has a standard IEC inlet?
Also, you're not the first person to be puzzled by what I've written, so perhaps it's my mistake; in the part you've quoted, I meant that when putting the generic kettle lead back in (after allowing a lot more that 100 hours burn in time on the ultimate) all of the goodness I'd become accustommed to suddenly vanished, have I not made that clear?
Lol... No! By saying "all of the goodness I'd become accustommed to suddenly vanished", makes it sound like the Ultimate is WORSE! :eyebrows:
I'm not quite sure what you actually meant, though - only you will know that! ;)
I'm on a course of steroids right now and not been thinking so straight so please let me know, I'll ammend it if it's the case; I meant to illustrate how GOOD the Ultimate lead is, not the other way around lol.
Lol, well in that case, what you've written needs to be put somewhat differently! :D
Marco.
Also, what are you powering your kit from? A mains block, or directly into sockets on the wall, and if it's the latter, are they double or single sockets, switched or un-switched?
Marco.
realysm42
26-06-2012, 10:22
No - my M-dac has an unusual connector and therefore I can only use the vanilla power solution for now (there is a new power unit being developed by Mr. Westlake, the M-pax and I'll be having a word with David about new cables for that once it's acquired).
Thanks for the clarification Marco, I'll get it sorted shortly, perhaps when I'm not so high lol :eek:
Welder, thanks for your opinion. You may or may not be wrong and I guess the proof is in the pudding; I'll have to wait a while to find out.
I've literally just swapped it out with a generic kettle lead and the difference is very real.
Obvious enough to me! :)
You swapped it (the MCRU cable) out with a generic lead and the sound turned to crap. Simples!
No - my M-dac has an unusual connector and therefore I can only use the vanilla power solution for now...
That's bloody annoying - I HATE it when manufacturer's do that; God knows why!! :scratch:
What type of connector is it? Is it a 'clover-leaf' one, or a two-pin job - what does it look like? A pic would be good.
I'm pretty sure that whatever it is, you could get an adaptor made, which would allow you to connect a mains lead, using a normal IEC plug.
Thanks for the clarification Marco, I'll get it sorted shortly, perhaps when I'm not so high lol :eek:
No worries, dude. If you need me to amend your initial post, let me know the text you like to change, as members only have 24 hours from the date of posts to make any amendments.
Marco.
P.S See my post #9.
realysm42
26-06-2012, 10:40
Hi Marco, here is what it looks like:
http://www.nisel.sk/wp-content/uploads/AUDIOLAB-M-DAC-back.jpg
With regards to post #9, I've got a generic double wall socket that's switched. I'm using the left one and from that I've got one of David's silver plated 8 gang mains distribution blocks. Of course I'd rather have a posh Furutech wall thingy but I rent right now so don't want to pour money into a place I'm not going to be at forever. Judging by what I've read here, there's a lot of thought into what should be the ultimate solution and it depends on where I choose to settle?
Ps. I've had a go at making the initial post a bit clearer; apologies for any confusion I might have caused.
Obvious enough to me! :)
You swapped it (the MCRU cable) out with a generic lead and the sound turned to crap. Simples!
I get that, dude, but if you read what Martin wrote again:
Initial impressions weren't as amazing as I'd predicted at the outset; David did tell me to wait about 100 hours before hearing the full impact. So I waited.
I've literally just swapped it out with a generic kettle lead and the difference is very real. Playing Dry the River's "Animal skins" (a track I know well) was an interesting experience.
It's the "Initial impressions weren't as amazing as I'd predicted" bit, followed by "I've literally just swapped it out with a generic kettle lead" bit, which for me, confuses things, or perhaps doesn't make what he meant as obvious as it should be. I misread what he meant by "swapped it out".
I'd have written:
"I've literally just replaced the kettle lead I was using, with the Ultimate, and the difference was very real".
Wouldn't you agree that's clearer? :)
Otherwise, for me, it reads as if the kettle lead is what was responsible for the improvements he heard, not the Ultimate.
Perhaps it just depends on how your brain is wired? :eyebrows:
Marco.
Serves you right for "skim reading" and not taking the time to fully understand what's been written! :lol:
Now... where have I heard that before? :ner: :D
Hi Martin,
Hi Marco, here is what it looks like:
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/1050/mdacmainsinlet.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/mdacmainsinlet.jpg/)
I've re-sized the pic for you...
That's a right bloody weird looking power socket! Goodness knows why the heck they've used that... :mental:
However, I'm sure that you could get David (or Mark Grant) to make you up an adaptor, that had the plug you currently use fitted to it, which goes into the back of your DAC, and a male IEC at the other end, which your Ultimate mains lead would plug into.
I'd definintely make the necessary enquiries, if I were you, as trust me, you'll get bigger sonic gains by improving the mains feed to your digital source, then you will on your amp.
With regards to post #9, I've got a generic double wall socket that's switched. I'm using the left one and from that I've got one of David's silver plated 8 gang mains distribution blocks.
Ok, cool. Is the right socket used at all? If not, switch it off and unplug anything connected to it.
Next, what's the order of equipment plug-in on the block, starting from the socket nearest the incoming flex? :)
Marco.
Serves you right for "skim reading" and not taking the time to fully understand what's been written! :lol:
Now... where have I heard that before? :ner: :D
Lol! Actually, I didn't skim-read it; I just misconstrued what he wrote, because it wasn't clear to me what he meant.
You have to admit, that the way I've worded it is clearer and easier understood :)
Marco.
realysm42
26-06-2012, 11:02
Thanks for the advice dude; I'll wait until I've got the new power supply for the dac and then see about getting some sexier bits added to it.
Based on your previous advice, I checked which one sounded best, I stuck with the left and yes, the right socket is free all of the time and turnd off (I'm forever turning lights and plugs off after people lol).
I have no idea currently how it's all plugged in, but I'll check tonight and list it here.
Cheers Marco.
Nice one.
The order of plug-in is pretty important, in terms of optimising the sound of the equipment connected to your block, so when you let me know what the order is, I'm sure we can tweak it! ;)
Marco.
The M-DAC works off an AC to AC adapter which is probably why it sounds so good as no SMPS powering it. Its been made with a strange plug on purpose I suspect as JW will be selling his own PSU for it any day now under his own company branding not Audiolab.
He also has a matching power amp lined up the same width as the M-DAC which is launching soon too.
The M-DAC has a lot of mains filtering/regulation built in so it's nice to see that area addressed correctly for once, again that is part of the reason I think why a lot are raving about it.
Btw, just a thought... Does that M-DAC use an off-board power supply, like some kind of wall-wart thingy, or take its power directly from the mains, via the supplied lead with that weird plug on it?
On the other end of that lead, is there a normal 13A plug? In fact, a picture of the lead in question would be good! :)
Marco.
That's a right bloody weird looking power socket! Goodness knows why the heck they've used that... :mental:
Looks like a DC socket... does this thing have a seperate PSU?
Btw, just a thought... Does that M-DAC use an off-board power supply, like some kind of wall-wart thingy, or take its power directly from the mains, via the supplied lead with that weird plug on it?
On the other end of that lead, is there a normal 13A plug? In fact, a picture of the lead in question would be good! :)
Marco.
Snap! :D
see my previous post, off board AC psu
Indeed! If it has a separate PSU, then let's also see a pic of the rear of the PSU, providing of course that it isn't simply just a wall-wart jobby, in which case we're fecked! :doh:
Marco.
Yep... just noticed! ;)
It's obviously a low voltage socket, you wouldn't have the mains going straight into that thing!
Stratmangler
26-06-2012, 11:28
see my previous post, off board AC psu
Otherwise known as a multiple tapped transformer maybe?
Hence the use of the multitude of pins on that mini DIN connector?
The M-DAC works off an AC to AC adapter which is probably why it sounds so good as no SMPS powering it. Its been made with a strange plug on purpose I suspect as JW will be selling his own PSU for it any day now under his own company branding not Audiolab.
Ah right, okies...
However, as much as I agree with the above, I still feel that ANY type of PSU would benefit, sonically, by being powered by a high-quality mains lead, designed for audiophile purposes, which in effect means that an IEC socket has to feature somewhere in the PSU design :)
Marco.
How does the M-DAC's PSU take power from the mains supply? I'd still like to see a picture of the cable being used for that job.... I'd bet that it's not exactly the best thing in the world! ;)
Marco.
Mark Grant
26-06-2012, 17:05
Otherwise known as a multiple tapped transformer maybe?
Hence the use of the multitude of pins on that mini DIN connector?
On pinkfish there is a diagram, +15V and -15V DC
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1704807&postcount=22
Looking at the connector size no one is going to be fitting meaty multicore cables into that.
It doesn't always follow that expensive mains leads do a better job. With my power amp - yes it does. However, the cdp sounds better with a kettle lead + fancy fuse. Strange but true.
On pinkfish there is a diagram, +15V and -15V DC
There is.... but it don't say DC! ;)
Reid Malenfant
26-06-2012, 17:59
On pinkfish there is a diagram, +15V and -15V DC
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1704807&postcount=22
Looking at the connector size no one is going to be fitting meaty multicore cables into that.
Fun fitting a new cable to that :eek:
There is.... but it don't say DC! ;)
Eh? :scratch:
I have never head of +/- 15V AC :eyebrows:
If there is a + & - it relative to ground & will be DC imho :)
Eh? :scratch:
I have never head of +/- 15V AC :eyebrows:
If there is a + & - it relative to ground & will be DC imho :)
;)
Mark Grant
26-06-2012, 18:14
Mikes is correct :) I thought I saw DC:doh:
A couple of links with pictures:
http://w.livedoor.jp/headphone/d/Audiolab%20M-DAC
http://www.tforumhifi.com/t25634-alimentazione-audiolab-m-dac
Looks like a very low budget transformer and the Mdac sounds excellent even with that.
It doesn't make sense to have an external AC supply IMHO... all the rectification and regulation would then have to take place inside the DAC!
It would be better to build it all in one box, surely? :scratch:
I'm going for it being fed DC from the PSU! :D
Mikes is correct :) I thought I saw DC:doh:
A couple of links with pictures:
http://w.livedoor.jp/headphone/d/Audiolab%20M-DAC
http://www.tforumhifi.com/t25634-alimentazione-audiolab-m-dac
Looks like a very low budget transformer and the Mdac sounds excellent even with that.
Well well... look at that. I'm wrong again! :eek:
Reid Malenfant
26-06-2012, 18:20
Interesting, the second link could possibly show that there is no rectification, but diodes could be under that heatshrink :scratch:
Anyone got an M-DAC that fancies popping the top off & give us some pictures of components on the sub board near the power input socket? :eyebrows:
guys
I have the mdac, i told you it was ac to ac psu, 2 x 13.8V AC
sorted
It would be better to build it all in one box, surely? :scratch:
Ah, wait... the international market. Of course! :doh:
Interesting, the second link could possibly show that there is no rectification, but diodes could be under that heatshrink :scratch:
Anyone got an M-DAC that fancies popping the top off & give us some pictures of components on the sub board near the power input socket? :eyebrows:
:):):)
just buy a hifi choice mate there is a picture in there of the innards
what difference does it make anyway, no one has one apart from me and martin do they?
realysm42
26-06-2012, 18:33
Oh nice one Dave, did you get a black one in the end?
I've just got a brand new one, the guys at Sevenoaks Kingston let me have it as there are just none available and mine was a pain to repair; which I'm happy about :D
Daniel Quinn
26-06-2012, 18:44
[QUOTE=Marco;339951]That's bloody annoying - I HATE it when manufacturer's do that; God knows why!! :scratch:
My understanding is the Audiolab dac was designed by John Westlake and to paraphrase what he as written elsewhere, he would consider a £500 lead powering his machine of no use and bloody madness .
p.s dont shoot the messenger :lol:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6771/mdacpsu.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/mdacpsu.jpg/)
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8109/mdacpsu2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/mdacpsu2.jpg/)
That'll be switch-mode, I presume?
Oh jeez, if the M-DAC sounds good with that cheap little thing, then there's massive uptapped potential still to come when someone builds an off-board PSU with some 'big-boy'-sized proper trannies inside, individually regulated, fed by a decent mains lead!! :eek:
David, that's a PSU project you should give to Nick! ;)
Marco.
That'll be switch-mode, I presume?
No... it's just a transformer.
realysm42
26-06-2012, 18:50
[QUOTE=Marco;339951]That's bloody annoying - I HATE it when manufacturer's do that; God knows why!! :scratch:
My understanding is the Audiolab dac was designed by John Westlake and to paraphrase what he as written elsewhere, he would consider a £500 lead powering his machine of no use and bloody madness .
p.s dont shoot the messenger :lol:
Fair enough, I'm not sure if what I've said is misconstrued here but I'm not powering it with anytyhing special; it's my amp I'm using a £750 cable on.
For the record. I wouldn't think twice about upgrading the upgraded power supply (for the M-dac) with meatier cables when the opportunity arises, if I was shown the option I'd take it.
Btw Marco, I'm gutting my room and reorganising it soon, so I'll get the listed order of plugs when I'm settled back in :eyebrows:
Reid Malenfant
26-06-2012, 18:56
No... it's just a transformer.
Yes, bog standard 50HZ AC transformer :eyebrows:
There is something bugging me though, why go to all the trouble of seperating the AC power fed to each analogue & digital section of the DAC back at the transformer?
Even the ground connections look seperated at the transformer.
I guess you could say it's similar to star earthing & may be advantageous.
Personally I bet it'd be worth purchasing a few low VA toroidal transformers to totally seperate the PSUs & star earth at the DAC itself :cool:
No... it's just a transformer.
Cool. I wasn't sure.
But it's nowt special, that's for sure! I suppose that it's in line, quality wise, with what one would expect, given the cost of the DAC.
Defo plenty of potential, however, for someone to build nice beefy PSU, using proper-sized transformers. If there's one thing I've learned with audio is that, ultimately, ALL equipment is a slave to the quality of its power supply! :exactly:
Marco.
There is something bugging me though, why go to all the trouble of seperating the AC power fed to each analogue & digital section of the DAC back at the transformer?
One DAC and a range of inexpensive traffo's to suit whichever market the package is destined for. Perhaps? :)
Personally I bet it'd be worth purchasing a few low VA toroidal transformers to totally seperate the PSUs & star earth at the DAC itself :cool:
+1!
I'm sure that the M-DAC sounds great, even as it is, but I'm from the school of judging kit ultimately by the quality of its PSU, and in that area I like to see things 'big & brutal' and over-specced to the hilt!
No matter how good the DAC itself is, that little thing, posing as a PSU, ain't cutting it... :eyebrows: :nono:
Marco.
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6771/mdacpsu.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/mdacpsu.jpg/)
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8109/mdacpsu2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/mdacpsu2.jpg/)
That'll be switch-mode, I presume?
Oh jeez, if the M-DAC sounds good with that cheap little thing, then there's massive uptapped potential still to come when someone builds an off-board PSU with some 'big-boy'-sized proper trannies inside, individually regulated, fed by a decent mains lead!! :eek:
David, that's a PSU project you should give to Nick! ;)
Marco.
It's in his to do list after the bushmaster but he has already said I have to solder that stupid 95 pin plug on! :lol:
realysm42
26-06-2012, 19:10
Does this mean there's going to be more than one for me to choose from eventually?
If yes, you got any idea when you could get one for a test run Dave?
It's in his to do list after the bushmaster but he has already said I have to solder that stupid 95 pin plug on! :lol:
Lol - there's gonna be some happy-bunny M-DAC users, when that happens! :trust:
Btw, does anyone know if the CDQ use the same PSU?
Marco.
Oh nice one Dave, did you get a black one in the end?
I've just got a brand new one, the guys at Sevenoaks Kingston let me have it as there are just none available and mine was a pain to repair; which I'm happy about :D
Martin,
After trying all my trade contacts for a good deal and getting nowhere I totally forgot Mr Cawley (http://www.soundhifi.com/) sells them ( I have no beefs with him even though others on here do), he got me a silver one and even gave me a good discount. He has even offered to give anyone who mentions MCRU a discount too and he has stocks which is good (others are offering the DAC when they have no stock).
I have not got my touch back yet from having it modified so can only go off a famous UK Hi-Fi Editor's personal recommendation to get one asap as it is rather special, hope it is!
Does this mean there's going to be more than one for me to choose from eventually?
We could get Paul Hynes onto the job, too! ;)
Marco.
We could get Paul Hynes onto the job, too! ;)
Marco.
people will want the matching PSU from John's own company, same size as the DAC and eventual power amp that is being launched soon from John, nice 3 stack hifi, all you need to add is speakers and a squeezebox!
Sure, but it all depends what sounds best. If I was an M-DAC user, out-and-out sonic performance is ALL that would matter (not things matching)!! ;)
Besides, choice is good!
Marco.
Sure, but it all depends what sounds best. If I was an M-DAC user, out-and-out sonic performance is ALL that would matter (not things matching)!!
Besides, choice is good!
Marco.
I saw your dress sense at dominics bake off and things not matching, totally with you on that one matey. :ner:
Shit... Did my pink frilles show, when I bent down to change a record? :o
Marco.
no just your hairy arse :lol:
There's a DIY psu supply thread over on PFM for the Audiolab, last page: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=120306&page=8
There's a DIY psu supply thread over on PFM for the Audiolab, last page: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=120306&page=8
It is build able but it's like anything in life, time is in short supply for busy people!
There's a DIY psu supply thread over on PFM for the Audiolab, last page: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=120306&page=8
Yes, this looks a bit more like what I'd call a proper PSU:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9392/pfmpsu.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/pfmpsu.jpg/)
I asked before, but does anyone know if the Audiolab CDQ CD player uses the same el-cheapo PSU as the M-DAC, or does it use something rather more serious?
Marco.
Mark Grant
27-06-2012, 07:50
I asked before, but does anyone know if the Audiolab CDQ CD player uses the same el-cheapo PSU as the M-DAC, or does it use something rather more serious?
Marco.
More serious.:)
A picture of 8200CDQ with cover off here:
http://www.hifitest.de/test/cd-player/audiolab-8200_cdq_4672.php#
and larger picture of 8200CD with cover off here: (Looks to be the same board)
http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/audiolab/1020/8200cd/8200cd.asp
realysm42
27-06-2012, 08:46
I didn't know the CDQ uses a better power supply but I've heard John saying that the M-dac is the cheaper and better (sound) quality option of the two. So as Marco says, it'll be exciting when better quality PSUs become available for it *rubs hands* :eyebrows:
Cheers, Mark! :)
I didn't know the CDQ uses a better power supply but I've heard John saying that the M-dac is the cheaper and better (sound) quality option of the two.
Really? I'm struggling to see why that would be the case... :scratch:
Marco.
realysm42
27-06-2012, 09:10
I'm pretty sure he's said it a couple of times on PFM; I'll see if I can find a quote but not right now.
He seems very open about what he's working on; currently he's developing a B-dac (I think) that he's said will cost about half as much as the M-dac but might produce better SQ. Regardless of whether or not his claims are true, it's a pretty effective way of generating interest in the work he's doing.
No problem - that would be interesting. I can't really see why the M-DAC (with its very basic little PSU) would better what's iinside the CDQ, so some rationale on that would be useful.
Btw, I thought you were going to show me the equipment plug-in order on your block? ;)
Marco.
realysm42
27-06-2012, 10:40
[QUOTE=Daniel Quinn;340085]Btw Marco, I'm gutting my room and reorganising it soon, so I'll get the listed order of plugs when I'm settled back in :eyebrows:
:eyebrows:
I do need to sort it out though, it's doing my head in now lol.
realysm42
28-06-2012, 22:02
Right, room's done, which I'm happy about :)
Marco, my distribution block is against the wall, hanging vertically, obviously, the power lead is at the 'bottom' of the unit if you will; here is the current order that everything's plugged in:
*Ceiling*
1.Monitor
2.PC
3.Empty
4.Empty
5.Empty
6.Sub
7.Amp.
8.Dac
*Floor*
What do you reckon?
Ok, just to be clear, which component of those listed above is nearest the incoming mains flex on the block?
Marco.
realysm42
29-06-2012, 07:12
The Dac.
Hi Martin,
Okies... Is there any chance of plugging the monitor and PC into a separate socket and/or mains block - perhaps feeding them from the house ring-main, rather than your dedicated spur?
If you can somehow remove those (electrically noisy) items from sharing the same mains feed/supply as the rest of your kit, you should notice a significant sonic improvement.
Other than that, try swapping the amp and DAC around, so that the amp is plugged in first, nearest the flex.
Let us know how you get on :)
Marco.
Hi Martin,
Okies... Is there any chance of plugging the monitor and PC into a separate socket and/or mains block - perhaps feeding them from the house ring-main, rather than your dedicated spur?
If you can somehow remove those (electrically noisy) items from sharing the same mains feed/supply as the rest of your kit, you should notice a significant sonic improvement.
Other than that, try swapping the amp and DAC around, so that the amp is plugged in first, nearest the flex.
Let us know how you get on :)
Marco.
That's not as bad as one of my other customers who had a "fishtank" plugged into his mains block! Pump and lights on 24/7!
realysm42
29-06-2012, 14:29
As it stands, there's not much I can do about that right now, short of getting another mains block, due to the layout and of my room, I'll have a go at swapping the dac and amp around for sure though!
As it stands, there's not much I can do about that right now, short of getting another mains block...
That's what I meant. If it's just for your monitor and PC, then go into your local B&Q and buy any old el-cheapo mains block, connect it to your house ring main, plug your monitor and PC into it, and having freed those electrically noisy items from your 'hi-fi mains block' and dedicated spur, you should be able to hear an improvement! :cool:
Then swap your amp and DAC around after that, on the other block, and see what happens.
Marco.
realysm42
29-06-2012, 14:54
I don't know why but I had it in my mind that I'd need another sexy one. Right sir, Ill grab one tomorrow and report back :)
Another sexy one, just for the monitor and PC? Nah... Get the simplest one you can though, without any switched sockets, illuminated on/off switches or 'surge protection' on it. Just a basic 2-way distribution strip will do the job :)
Marco.
Another sexy one, just for the monitor and PC? Nah... Get the simplest one you can though, without any switched sockets, illuminated on/off switches or 'surge protection' on it. Just a basic 2-way distribution strip will do the job :)
Marco.
you need an isotek genesis for your pc mate (£12995.00), you will not believe how fast it will become and it suddenly sprouts legs and starts making your tea and making your bed and other things that I cannot go into on a public forum ...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
I don't know why but I had it in my mind that I'd need another sexy one. Right sir, Ill grab one tomorrow and report back :)
Still waiting! ;)
:popcorn:
Marco.
Spectral Morn
01-07-2012, 14:33
Coming to this thread late :doh:
The results I think you heard are down to the Ultimate Mains Cable requiring a lot of run in.
You can read my thoughts experience with this cable here http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/18/05/2011/the-mains-cables-r-us-the-ultimate-power-cord/
you need an isotek genesis for your pc mate (£12995.00), you will not believe how fast it will become and it suddenly sprouts legs and starts making your tea and making your bed and other things that I cannot go into on a public forum ...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Then it murders you in your bed and takes over the world by hooking in to the defence computers. They made a film about it (I think)...
Yo dude,
Did you buy that other mains block for your PC and monitor, and if so, how did you get on? :cool:
Marco.
realysm42
02-07-2012, 10:40
Coming to this thread late :doh:
The results I think you heard are down to the Ultimate Mains Cable requiring a lot of run in.
You can read my thoughts experience with this cable here http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/18/05/2011/the-mains-cables-r-us-the-ultimate-power-cord/
Just to check; it doesn't still read badly does it?
I've ammended the post to make it clear the MCRU lead is far superior, or atleast that was my intention.
Also, I read your review of the cable a while ago, it was part of what inspired me to give it a go in the first place.
Got your PM, Martin - churz! :cool:
Marco.
realysm42
02-07-2012, 16:07
Okay, so I've bought the simplest, cheapest power mains block I could find for my pc (2 gang, 4 meter (perfect for my room).
I've rushed a tiny bit to get it in place, but I've changed the fuse (have yet to polish it etc) and removed my pc from the audio circuit, the only interaction it has with my stereo now is supplying music for the dac.
Initial impression?
Fuck, it's LOUD!!! I think I should state my pc is probably awful for music streaming as it was built as a high end gaming rig, top of the range core duo 2 quad core processor, Nvidia GTX 295 (dual GPU) graphics card etc; you get the idea, it's a noisy power hog.
I used to be able to turn my amp up to about 12 O'clock now I wouldn't dare go past 10for fear of destroying my speakers! I'd say it's about a 20% louder at the same volume (and no I have no way to measure it, it's a guesstimate).
I'm not sure if I'm looking for other changes that aren't there (I can swap back in a few weeks to compare of course) but I'm sure sound is more vsiceral as if there's a tiny bit more texture being delivered to the overall sound. Bass from my sub is a lot more prominent, but in a tuneful way; I like :)
Even if it's only music volume increased it can't be a bad thing as that must my amps having an easier time of it to produce ear splitting volumes.
From what I've heard so far/experienced, this is a substantial upgrade for £15.
Cheers Marco :cool:
Louder? That's an interesting one... That could certainly be because you've lowered the noisefloor, so music played at the same volume as before is now no longer surrounded by as much 'mush', and therefore is perceived as sounding 'louder'.
Anyway, glad that it seems to have made a notable improvement. Get those fuses and pins polished on both the plugs on your mains blocks, and try swapping your DAC and amp around on your 'sexy' block ;)
Marco.
realysm42
02-07-2012, 18:28
So I've come back from the gym and played a few more tunes I'm familiar with; I don't know how to express it properly but the music is more engaging I'm sure of it (it's really frustrating being able to hear something and not articulate it with words :steam:).
It all sounds more natural and engaging as if each element of the music has more room to breathe, that's my best shot lol :lol:
When I can control my arms properly I'll get the fuses sorted out as well.
Lol - the free tweaks are the best ones, eh? :eyebrows:
Have you tried swapping your amp and DAC round yet?
Marco.
I'm going through a massive power cable transition at the moment, all of my Russ Andrews power cables are being gradually replaced. Already in place is the biggest hawser of a cable you've ever seen, a Mark Grant Furukawa 2.6 feeding my Power Plant P10 (effectively, the entire system).
So, I've been doing a 'Jerry' and buying/selling cables in order to try different things out. In chatting with Dave at Mains Cables R Us, a simple conversation about the ideal cable for my Chord SPM-1200E power amp turned into an Ultimate being delivered to me this morning.
This one has a Martin Kaiser 16A silver connector on it, with a different pin configuration and is the only one that will fit the deeply recessed receptacle in the Chord. The other end is a gold Furutech 1363 plug. The unwieldiness of this cable is second only to the Furukawa 2.6, difficult to bend and it's good that both the Power Plant and Chord are heavy as it just hangs in space between them with no intention of ever drooping to the floor.
I'm not going to beat around the bush: the Ultimate on the Chord is bloody breathtaking. It has taken me over the threshold from listening to a fantastic reproduction to just being in the recorded space. I don’t mean the popular ‘you are there’, I mean really being in the space with all the aural cues that make it real. There is absolutely no sense of a record playing. Van Morrison’s voice is dirty and gritty but his sax is divine – all the raspy horniness that the real thing has. Ry Cooder's music is detailed and infectious and boppy and just so damned real. Bass pulses and transients hit the chest, as they should. I always knew the Chord is a bit special and it just keeps on responding. I simply cannot stop playing music!
The Ultimate is not going back. My thanks to Dave for his usual excellent service :)
That furutech plug definitely helps. I've added one to both my pre and power amp now and both offered decent upgrades.
Hi Martin,
Interesting stuff...
Already in place is the biggest hawser of a cable you've ever seen, a Mark Grant Furukawa 2.6 feeding my Power Plant P10 (effectively, the entire system).
So what improvements did that bring over what you were using before? Some detail on this would be appreciated :)
I'm not going to beat around the bush: the Ultimate on the Chord is bloody breathtaking. The Ultimate is not going back.
Nice one. I did tell you how good those things were! ;)
Marco.
So what improvements did that bring over what you were using before? Some detail on this would be appreciated
Ok, this is interesting. The Furukawa 2.6 feeding the P10 gave an overall improvement in structure, a little more bass potency and some finer detail in the soundstage. A good all-round cleanup without any one area standing out. Conclusion: the Russ Andrews Signature it replaced had been doing a fair job.
The MCRU Ultimate feeding the Chord gave a really significant uplift in reality, all the tiny cues that make the performance real, a very impressive improvement in bass texture and impact, delicacy in the treble, overall reduced harshness. Conclusion: the Russ Andrews Reference it replaced had been doing a poor job, was too long at 2m, and was not able to keep up with the amp's peak demands and the P10's clear ability to deliver.
So the power amp needed an upgrade even more than the overall system.
BTW, neither of these cables are fully burned-in yet!
Wakefield Turntables
20-08-2012, 16:28
I now have the pleasure of having two of these in the system, one in my pre-amp and the other in the phonostage. They are brand new so still haven't burned in yet. They are the size of a small python.
Thanks for the loan Dave, will give you some feedback when they have a few more hours on them.
A
I now have the pleasure of having two of these in the system, one in my pre-amp and the other in the phonostage. They are brand new so still haven't burned in yet. They are the size of a small python.
Thanks for the loan Dave, will give you some feedback when they have a few more hours on them.
A
I thought you were putting them on your speakers dude?
That furutech plug definitely helps. I've added one to both my pre and power amp now and both offered decent upgrades.
Did you change the fuses too? :)
Wakefield Turntables
20-08-2012, 20:37
Your leads are too bloody big to fit :lol: BUT! I'm not complaining as they are now sitting in my pre-amp and phonostage and I have seen a difference already (I think!!!!). It could be psychological but I swear things are better already (guys please dont take the piss). I'll be experimenting over next few days and report back.
Wakefield Turntables
20-08-2012, 20:38
no i didnt change the fuses but I have some Busman silver fuses, do you think these would help??
no i didnt change the fuses but I have some Busman silver fuses, do you think these would help??
not you I was asking clap if he changed the fuses on his plugs :)
yours have the best fuses already installed chief, titter yee not :)
I haven't changed the fuses. I will do as soon as funds allow :)
IanL1962
21-08-2012, 11:54
Nice one.
The order of plug-in is pretty important, in terms of optimising the sound of the equipment connected to your block, so when you let me know what the order is, I'm sure we can tweak it! ;)
Marco.
Hi Marco,
Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere but the works Internet police take a dim view of prolonged browsing (interferes with work, apparently). I take it there is a preferred/optimum order for connecting equipment to a multi-block (in my case a 6 way Tacima CS929) - could you elaborate? I currently have my tuner, CD, headphone amp and DAC plugged into it, although I couldn't say in what order - the amp is plugged into a switched double mains socket, with the Tacima in the other.
realysm42
21-08-2012, 12:29
Hi Martin,
Okies... Is there any chance of plugging the monitor and PC into a separate socket and/or mains block - perhaps feeding them from the house ring-main, rather than your dedicated spur?
If you can somehow remove those (electrically noisy) items from sharing the same mains feed/supply as the rest of your kit, you should notice a significant sonic improvement.
Other than that, try swapping the amp and DAC around, so that the amp is plugged in first, nearest the flex.
Let us know how you get on :)
Marco.
Ian, that's the advice I received in this thread.
Apparently, generally having the amp in the left socket is generally beneficial, but it's worth experimenting to see if swapping yields improvement.
Taking the above advice was a big improvement in SQ for me (mainly removing the PC and monitor from the equation) in terms of removing background noise and also allowing my amp to reach higher levels quickly (I assume this is due to lowered resistance in the circuit*).
*I could well be talking out of my arse here, but there was an improvement regardless as to why it happened.
IanL1962
21-08-2012, 13:03
Ian, that's the advice I received in this thread.
Apparently, generally having the amp in the left socket is generally beneficial, but it's worth experimenting to see if swapping yields improvement.
Cheers Martin,
It never crossed my mind that the order could have a bearing, other than I've read elsewhere that connecting an amp through the mains block could throttle it slightly, hence that's connected separately! Still, I shall go home tonight and unplug/replug everything - even if I can't hear any difference at least I'll have the peace of mind knowing it's all in the right order!
Edit - don't know why the quote thingy didn't work properly.....
realysm42
21-08-2012, 15:13
Even the act of plugging/unplugging everything once in a while can help improve your equipment's performance as you're cleaning the contacts ;)
Deoxit works a treat too, you might be surprised at the benefits it has, just be careful using it!
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