Cost of 15" monitor golds

[Wakefield Turntables]

What would be the asking price for a minty pair of fully working 15" monitor golds, I've been offered a pair for £2,200 is this a fair price?? Any sensible comments very welcome.

[Marco]

£2.5-3k, depending on condition, Andrew, so the price you've been quoted is in line with that :)

I paid £2.5k for mine.

Marco.

[BazP]

I've just had a look in an HiFi News and Record Review of January 1979 vintage and they're listed at £120 per pair at M O'Brien's, 95 High Street, Wimbledon.

10" HPDs are £89 and 12" HPDs are £102

I think that shows that the inflation on a pair of Tannoy chassis outstrips house prices in some part of the country.

:sorry: to rub it in.

You never know, if the shop still exists (which I doubt), they might have a pair out the back with the old price on :D

[John]

Still going they seemed quite nice to deal with if memory serves me right
http://www.obrienhifi.com/www.obrienhifi.com/Home.html

[Marco]

I've just had a look in an HiFi News and Record Review of January 1979 vintage and they're listed at £120 per pair at M O'Brien's, 95 High Street, Wimbledon.

10" HPDs are £89 and 12" HPDs are £102

I think that shows that the inflation on a pair of Tannoy chassis outstrips house prices in some part of the country.

:sorry: to rub it in.


No problem, Barry. You're not really rubbing anything in.

Tannoy MGs are still an utter bargain, when installed in quality cabinets, in terms of sound-per-pound value, compared with many modern speakers costing FAR in excess of their current value... ;)

My 15" MGs, in Lockwoods cabs, have cost me (including updated crossovers) £3.5k in total. Sonically, I wouldn't swap them for most £15k speakers made these days! :nono:, which is SPPV at its best :)

Marco.

[DSJR]

I was just going to say that if you need to ask the prices of such drivers, you really can't afford them :rofl:

At least old ones can be fully refurbished and rebuilt, which is damned more than can be said for many/most popular speakers from the 70's and 80's..... bearing in mind the longevity of such old speakers, this is becaoming a big issue to me now....

[Marco]

Indeed, Dave. There's also the investment value to consider... Pay £2.5k today for a nice pair of 15" MGs, and you'll more than likely be able to sell them tomorrow for the same price, or perhaps more!

That ain't gonna happen with any new speakers currently available on the marketplace! :nono:

Look, for example, how much the current Tannoy Prestige range loses value from new...!! :eek: Owning quality (desirable) vintage kit is often better these days than having money in the bank :)

Marco.

[spendorman]

I sold my 12" 15 Ohm immaculate Silvers (pair) around 35 years ago for £150. I wonder how much they would be worth today. They were in some very nice non Tannoy cabinets a bit somewhat bigger than Chatworth enclosures.

I did put the money to good use then, bought a near perfect Radford STA25 III, SC22, FMT2, which I still have.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Well, it's not so bad, because £150 in 1977 is now worth £651.59p

[spendorman]

Well, it's not so bad, because £150 in 1977 is now worth £651.59p

That's interesting, it might have been a few years before that too! The Radford STA25 III has obviously increased in £'s, but not a much as I suspect that the Tannoy's would have done.

How did you make the £ equivalent allowing for the years? Would be useful to know.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I looked at an inflation calculator website - there are plenty of them. Just Google 'Current value of old money' or 'inflation calculator' or 'how much was money worth in 1977' - something like that & you'll find several. The good ones give you several answers depending on how it's calculated (eg Consumer Price Index, Average Salaries, RPI & that sort of thing).
Here's one for example (http://www.measuringworth.com/ppoweruk/)

[spendorman]

I looked at an inflation calculator website - there are plenty of them. Just Google 'Current value of old money' or 'inflation calculator' or 'how much was money worth in 1977' - something like that & you'll find several. The good ones give you several answers depending on how it's calculated (eg Consumer Price Index, Average Salaries, RPI & that sort of thing).
Here's one for example (http://www.measuringworth.com/ppoweruk/)

Thanks, I went back a few more years as I can't be certain exactly when I sold the Tannoys and bought the Radford. Interesting, came up with this for the £150 that I got for the Tannoys and spent on the Radford:

"Current data is only available till 2010. In 2010, £150.00 from 1973 is worth

£1,410.00 using the retail price index

£2,290.00 using average earnings"


What it certain is that the HPD 315's that I bought this year were a bargain at £400 a pair. They had new surrounds already fitted.

[jaym481]

A pair of Silvers today usually get into the 5-figure zone without cabinets. Are Silvers sonically better than Golds though?

And a related question: HPDs have the same HF diaphragm and pepperpot, and basically the same basket and magnet (essentially - some minor diffs) as Golds. Given that Gold recone kits are around £300/pair, and a pair of knackered HPD 385s can go for south of £300 without crossovers, could you get the Gold sound by reconing a set of HPDs with Gold cones (they do fit), and getting Nick to do the crossovers?

Maybe I just boosted the value of trashed HPDs? Or not - they'd have no collector value, only sonics.

[spendorman]

A pair of Silvers today usually get into the 5-figure zone without cabinets. Are Silvers sonically better than Golds though?

And a related question: HPDs have the same HF diaphragm and pepperpot, and basically the same basket and magnet (essentially - some minor diffs) as Golds. Given that Gold recone kits are around £300/pair, and a pair of knackered HPD 385s can go for south of £300 without crossovers, could you get the Gold sound by reconing a set of HPDs with Gold cones (they do fit), and getting Nick to do the crossovers?

Maybe I just boosted the value of trashed HPDs? Or not - they'd have no collector value, only sonics.

I can only talk of 12" DC's, had early Silvers, later Silvers and Golds at the same time, the early Silvers were a bit bass light and slightly coloured in the mid. Later Silvers were lovely, in my view, slightly better than the Golds.

It's a long gap in years to getting the HPD315's, but they are pretty good. Fairly sure they are better than the early Silvers, can't really say if they are as good or better than the later Silvers or Golds.

My HPD's are the pepperpot and Alnico magnet ones.

[Marco]

Silvers (any Silvers, early or late) will have a rather different sound from Golds, primarily due to being 15 Ohms, but also because speakers from that era were biased towards accurately reproducing midrange frequencies, as this was before the rock music era, and thus the need for really deep bass.

When I had 15" Reds (before swapping them for Golds), they also sounded rather different: superb in the mid, and better in that area than Golds (and those are no slouches there), but with limited low-end extension, which consequently meant that 70% of my music collection was sonically compromised.

If one lived solely on a diet of acoustic music, jazz, female vocals, choral, etc, then Reds or Silvers would be ideal, but not if what one listens to is mostly rock and pop - and they'd be a disaster with electronic and dance music!

For me, Golds are the best overall compromise, out of all the vintage Tannoy drivers. As for HPDs? I've yet to hear a pair that I could happily live with (compared with Golds) - certainly if a valve amp was in the equation :cool:

Marco.

[jaym481]

I have yet to hear a pair of well-sorted Golds, but find the HPDs with valve amplification to be very good. HPDs tend to be compromised by their cabinets.

I've also wondered about the "hard edge" recone for HPDs and how it changes the character. I wish I had a couple of sets to experiment with.

I should probably start setting aside the cash for Golds if I ever want to get a pair. They certainly aren't going down in price.

Marco, what did you find about the HPDs that is hard to live with compared to Golds?

[Marco]

Hi Jay,

Just off to bed. I'll come back to you on this tomorrow :)

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Jay,

Sorry for the delay - too busy getting carried away watching the footy!


Marco, what did you find about the HPDs that is hard to live with compared to Golds?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy listening to good HPDs, but for me they lack the magic of Golds, which to my ears have a more open and refined musical presentation, with less obvious horn coloration, are also less forward sounding, and being genuine studio monitors, have an ability to delve deep into the musical mix, unearthing nuances which most HPDs I've heard either gloss over or miss completely.

For me, Golds just offer a notable and easily heard step-up in class from HPDs - BUT you must ditch the original crossovers and have them replaced with high-quality modern equivalents. In that respect, the sky is the limit as to what can be achieved. My advice is to buy the best components you can afford, simply because the drive units are of such high quality, that they'll reward significant investment spent on updated crossovers.

Hope that helps :cool:

Marco.

[jaym481]

Hi Jay,

Sorry for the delay - too busy getting carried away watching the footy!



Don't get me wrong, I enjoy listening to good HPDs, but for me they lack the magic of Golds, which to my ears have a more open and refined musical presentation, with less obvious horn coloration, are also less forward sounding, and being genuine studio monitors, have an ability to delve deep into the musical mix, unearthing nuances which most HPDs I've heard either gloss over or miss completely.

For me, Golds just offer a notable and easily heard step-up in class from HPDs - BUT you must ditch the original crossovers and have them replaced with high-quality modern equivalents. In that respect, the sky is the limit as to what can be achieved. My advice is to buy the best components you can afford, simply because the drive units are of such high quality, that they'll reward significant investment spent on updated crossovers.

Hope that helps :cool:

Marco.

It helps, I think :). I would suggest both need crossover updates to be heard at their best. I recently pulled my HPD385s from their cabinets, and bits were falling off of the crossovers. The horn colouration observation surprises me, as I wouldn't have expected that given a comparison of both, in good fettle, in reflex cabinets.

I wish I could find a set of 15" golds (that I could afford) to swap with my HPDs (soon to have new crossovers, I hope. Possibly something active) in the same cabinets with the same equipment at the other end. I also wonder what a hard-edge recone might accomplish in comparison. So, I guess I need three sets of drivers and crossovers...woe is me.:doh:

[Reid Malenfant]

<snip> I also wonder what a hard-edge recone might accomplish in comparison. So, I guess I need three sets of drivers and crossovers...woe is me.:doh:
Slightly raised resonance frequency (FS), slightly raised driver Q (QTS) & a reduction of driver VAS or compliance equivalent volume.

It means the driver will be usable in a more domestically acceptable enclosure, though it might not go quite as deep in the bass end.

E2A:- While it might not go quite as deep, it'll go louder in the bass it can reproduce! Given the correct enclosure loading..

[Marco]

I wish I could find a set of 15" golds (that I could afford) to swap with my HPDs (soon to have new crossovers, I hope.

There's a lovely minty pair of Golds here, with a 'free' set of Lancaster cabinets, to boot: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tannoy-Monitor-Gold-15-Dual-Concentric-Speakers-Pair-/120934175429?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Vintage_Separates&hash=item1c283d12c5#ht_560wt_1413

As they say, hurry hurry, Mrs Murray! ;)

Marco.

[jaym481]

Slightly raised resonance frequency (FS), slightly raised driver Q (QTS) & a reduction of driver VAS or compliance equivalent volume.

It means the driver will be usable in a more domestically acceptable enclosure, though it might not go quite as deep in the bass end.

E2A:- While it might not go quite as deep, it'll go louder in the bass it can reproduce! Given the correct enclosure loading..

I think that's the first time I've received a technical explanation that I could understand. T&S parameters have mystified me since I first encountered them and tried to design a small sub enclosure for my car (something more restrained and refined than the boot-filling door rattlers that seem to be most common.)


There's a lovely minty pair of Golds here, with a 'free' set of Lancaster cabinets, to boot: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tannoy-Monitor-Gold-15-Dual-Concentric-Speakers-Pair-/120934175429?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Vintage_Separates&hash=item1c283d12c5#ht_560wt_1413

As they say, hurry hurry, Mrs Murray! ;)

Marco.

Been watching them, but they're outside what I have in the bank at the moment (or at least what the Chancellor will allow). I have enough set aside to sink into my HPDs that it'll take a while to build a fund for Golds (if someone bought the couple of things I have advertized...?) I've just commissioned Nick to build me an active crossover for the HPDs. Cost wise it was actually cheaper than scratch-built external passives (and only slightly more expensive than external passives using parts from my originals). I couldn`t resist that. I also have a lot set aside for some improvements to the source - looking at a 12" wand for the Morch.

[thebeathunters]

Silvers (any Silvers, early or late) will have a rather different sound from Golds, primarily due to being 15 Ohms, but also because speakers from that era were biased towards accurately reproducing midrange frequencies, as this was before the rock music era, and thus the need for really deep bass.

When I had 15" Reds (before swapping them for Golds), they also sounded rather different: superb in the mid, and better in that area than Golds (and those are no slouches there), but with limited low-end extension, which consequently meant that 70% of my music collection was sonically compromised.

If one lived solely on a diet of acoustic music, jazz, female vocals, choral, etc, then Reds or Silvers would be ideal, but not if what one listens to is mostly rock and pop - and they'd be a disaster with electronic and dance music!

For me, Golds are the best overall compromise, out of all the vintage Tannoy drivers. As for HPDs? I've yet to hear a pair that I could happily live with (compared with Golds) - certainly if a valve amp was in the equation :cool:

Marco.

i totally agree with you on the 15 ohms matter, red monitors were tailored for acoustic music but above all, VALVE AMPS!
:D as bass goes, it sure changes the whole sound experience. if there's bass somewhere on any lp or even cd's ( sometimes there's none, thanks to crappy remastering) be sure EL 84s or EL34s know how to slap them on the T's!
as for SS, only early class A such as sugden A21 dares to enter valve's bass territory and musicality.
frankly i'm still surprised how some deep house or trip-hop tracks sound good on the reds, too. even infra comes out of them.
back in the days they knew how to mix these tracks, long before mp3 design sound standards replaced studio mixing boards...