Compression Driver Sound

[walpurgis]

To me, compression driver horn midrange drivers and tweeters have a very special sound. Over the years, companies like Altec, Tannoy and JBL etc., have used horn compression drivers to great effect. This type of driver has a sound all of it's own, not necessarily neutral, but usually quite spectacular. The idea of a smaller diaphragm being controlled by a massive magnet appeals of course, due to the phenomenal transient response available. The sound is largely generated by the oscillating 'plug' of air in the compression throat and not much is delivered from the diaphragm itself. Many of us will be familiar with the superb midrange ability of traditional dual concentric Tannoys (pepperpot type) and on past occasions I have been fortunate enough to listen to larger Altec and JBL speakers with compression horns and they sound remarkable. Compression horns can be a little unruly at the top end of their operating range and I suspect this is due to breakup of the fairly wide and normally undamped diaphragms. You may note the avatar photo I'm using, this shows a pair of very rare japanese Crysler compression driver mids from the seventies which I intend use in a forthcoming speaker project. I have tried them out and they sound wonderful. Does anybody have views on these types of driver? Geoff.

[John]

I like them

[Ali Tait]

Me too.

[pure sound]

Me three!

I use Vitavox drivers (S2) & wouldn't swap for anything. Some people do try to run this type of driver too high & they can sound ragged particularly on the wrong horn. 4 Octaves is still a sensible range with an approriate tweeter above if desired.

[walpurgis]

Totally agree. I have often used super-tweeters with various Tannoys with the treble roll-off trimmed to suit.

[hoopsontoast]

Yup, I would agree that IME, compression drivers have delivered the most dynamic presentation in any systems I have heard. (Full front loaded Horns, Big Tannoys etc)
Unfortunately they are rare speakers lower down the budget unless you DIY.

[DSJR]

They "do" have colourations too, but not unpleasant ones. I think the compromise for domestic use, where extreme efficiency isn't needed (8" and smaller bass units are many MANY db less sensitive than a twin 15" driver setup..), is perhaps a "waveguide" to channel dispersion..

[smithy]

I too like compression drivers and horns, shame the wife doesnt appreciate them.Mind you Oris 150 horns mids and Smith 2397 horns are a bit intrusive in the domestic environment.

[anthonyTD]

Me too! :)
A...

[purite audio]

They don't have to sound coloured at all, mine have the same tone ,timbre as my active monitors, horns only sound coloured in poor implementations.
Keith.

[jandl100]

Interesting.

When I fell in lurv with Avantgarde horn hybrid speakers I had the choice of compression drivers and 'ordinary' ones ... after a bit of demming I happily settled on the non-compression type as they were a more comfortable long term listen for me.
The AG compression driver speakers were full-on and ultra-dynamic, which was impressive and fun, but there was a forwardness and a relentless quality that I found tiring after a while.
Good for Massive Attack, not so good for string quartets and female vocals, maybe!

And I've never got on with Tannoy dual concentrics, pepper-pot or otherwise, because of their particular upper-mid and treble characteristics.

Count me an unbeliever, for the nonce, but I'm always willing to listen to other stuff and modify my views. :)

Maybe this is the problem ....


..... Some people do try to run this type of driver too high & they can sound ragged particularly on the wrong horn..

Or maybe system synergy of the limited sample I have heard, none of which were in my own system, or just plain personal preference.

[DSJR]

Jerry, in fairness and deep respect to Tannoy, I feel the current prestige models are FAR better than stock product of old. Loads of work went into the crossovers especially in the early 80's and I think the less blingy Prestige models now could be said to be almost sweet toned in the treble :eek:

[jandl100]

Well, nothing is perfect, and we all have our own preferences for the compromises and balance of virtues that we are prepared to accept.

I don't want to turn this into a Tannoy love/hate thread, so I think we'll just agree to differ, Dave. :)

[DSJR]

We don't differ I think, as I share a certain caution about tweeter integration where 1970's ones are concerned. The blingy modern ones tinselly-tingle LOUDLY to me, but it came as a shock when I heard some prestige models, as they just didn't do this to me. The EAR599 driving them may have had summat to do with this though :)..

Anyway, onwards and upwards :)

[jandl100]

Well, I heard a Tannoy dem at a Show 3 (?) years ago - new Westminster Royals, I think. Personally, I still found the treble troublesome. Mightily impressive in many other ways, of course.

But that's OK - nobody is forcing me to buy a pair. :) - as you say, onwards and upwards.

[SPS]

Interesting.

When I fell in lurv with Avantgarde horn hybrid speakers I had the choice of compression drivers and 'ordinary' ones ... after a bit of demming I happily settled on the non-compression type as they were a more comfortable long term listen for me.
The AG compression driver speakers were full-on and ultra-dynamic, which was impressive and fun, but there was a forwardness and a relentless quality that I found tiring after a while.
Good for Massive Attack, not so good for string quartets and female vocals, maybe!

.

i dont think what you have heard is what i class as a good compresion driver set up, the finer music is fantastic and as for female vocals...the girls sing along in your room for you ... and then a bit of led zep, or classical.. it all works
i'm not into horn bass... mainly due to the size, but also the slight colourations are difficult to erase, I'm not saying it cant be done very well. .but i'm into the best valve amps, and 2 or 3 watts drives everything inc the bass and the top end.. to me a big ss amp driving the bass would be a real comprimise in my set up, and my system is in our lounge.. so size is important

relentless quality to me, is a more life like sound, the amps are just as important as the speakers.. and there should be nothing tiring about a low distortion system,
i would guess something was not right...

cheers

[jandl100]

... relentless quality to me, is a more life like sound,

Hmm.

OK. Fair enough.

We'll just have to agree to differ on that one!

[purite audio]

I wasn't aware that AG used compression drivers at all, perhaps jut the tweeter?
Keith.

[anthonyTD]

Hi All,
I do understand and sympathise with Jerry's view concerning some of the dual concentric Tannoy range.
Yes there is a forwardness to some that is unaceptable even taking into acount the rest of what they do great. One model in paticular that i have had experience with nearly sent me mad trying to get them to work in my room and system, no matter what you fed them with, there was this annoying, agrevating forwardness to the upper midrange that was intolerable after even a short listening session.
I was sure that it was the high frequency unit that was causing the problem, so to test this i plugged the waveguide with some soft foam plugs, sat and had another listen, i was with a friend at the time and as the track began to play we both looked at each other with a somewhat confused stare, yes, the problem was still there.
I deduced from this that what seemed to be happening was down to a poor intergration of the large 15" cone with the tulip waveguide fitted to this paticular model, ie; the agrevation was actualy coming from the 15" cone center...
Anyway, needless to say, they had to go, and i am not sure who was more relieved, me or the Mrs as she hated the sound of them with a passion!
The current Tannoys i have are still very dynamic and agile, but tend to be much more even handed across the frequency range.
I would also like to add that The dual concentric Tannoy driver [over-all] is in my view an excelent design, with very few compromises, however, they are ruthlessly revealing, and will therefore easily show up faults further down the chain, which is i fear what a lot of people find when they first listen to them after going from a more mainstream design of loudspeaker.
Anthony,TD...

[DSJR]

I'm thread cr@pping again - apologies all - but one thing that was dealt with on the larger DC's was an irregularity at around 3kHz. the peaky quality at 10k plus is probably not an issue in-room I suspect but the main improvements were to the crossovers and level/rolloff switching, the screw adjustments having far less impact on the sonics compared to the rotary switches of old. Jerry, you still may not like it, but it's a shame you couldn't have had a twiddle with tweeter level and rolloff adjustment. It just *might* have helped but hey, I love Harbeths and I think we all know what the AVI Fan-Club think of these - and vice-versa :lol: How anyone can say that a speaker with no deep bass, a several db (minimum) rise from mid-bass to upper mid followed by a drop to the tweeter (Linn Kan style) is "neutral" and "accurate" is totally beyond me. Admittedly, this is mainly regarding their recent passive models, but their tiny actives don't offer much different in balance...

[walpurgis]

The sound you get from dual concentric Tannoys, tulip wave guide types and especially compression horn varieties is largely a reflection of the equipment they are used with. If you're not enjoying your Tannoys, look back down the chain! As a rule Tannoys are not at their best with solid state amps, particularly A/B varieties and the combination can make for a pretty ruthless sound. There are of course a few exceptions (a couple of which I own). But to be safe, I'd be looking at a system with Class A valve amplification, pure copper cabling throughout, a more gentle sounding CD player, maybe Meridian or Wadia and a vinyl front end with a sweet MC cartridge. Then you start getting a bit of the real Tannoy magic.

[jandl100]

The sound you get from dual concentric Tannoys, tulip wave guide types and especially compression horn varieties is largely a reflection of the equipment they are used with.

No, I can't agree with that, Geoff. I've heard Tannoy DCs with all sorts of partnering gear, and the characteristic sound of the upper mid / treble is all too obvious in each and every setup I've heard. Sorry, but the finger of blame is pointing solidly Tannoywards! ;)

[jandl100]

I wasn't aware that AG used compression drivers at all, perhaps jut the tweeter?
Keith.

Umm, I'm pretty sure you could get AG Unos with a compression driver option, and that it was standard in some Duo and Trio models.

Hmm, yes, see 4th para on this link for example for AG using compression drivers http://www.audaud.com/audaud/JUN03/EQUIP/equip1JUN03.html

[walpurgis]

Tannoys undoubtedly have their own characteristics and are by no means perfect, but I've used various models, with various partnering equipment over the last forty years or so and generally found the positives outweighed the negatives. Personally, I can live with the slight top-end unruliness and the horn colourations, as the midrange transparency, depth and imaging just suit me fine. After all, there is NO speaker without flaws.

[jandl100]

... After all, there is NO speaker without flaws.

Yup, I agree. :thumbsup:

We just find different compromises acceptable. :)