Speaker stand filler

[Tarzan]

Evening chaps, can anybody recommend a speaker filler, that damps the stand yet ( this is the bit that is doing my head in) that weighs next to nothing- l mean as in weighing as little as possible, the reason l ask is my Skylans were mass loaded with sand and l thought l would try them with either kitty litter or rice(really) as recommended by Skylan themselves, so l emptied the stands and listened to them empty and to my suprise, me Harbeths sound quality took a large step forward, so l am thinking something very light but l cannot think:scratch: so , it is over to you.

[howardc1951]

How about polystyrene beads? They sell them for filling pet beds. I have absolutely no idea whether or not they would work but probably wouldn't cost much to find out.

[hifi_dave]

The stands will sound best partly filled. I usually use cat litter and approx 1/4 fill.

Too late now but the best stands I have found for Harbeth are Something Solid - a light, rigid, open frame, which sounds cleaner and faster than mass loaded stands.

[Wakefield Turntables]

HMmmmm, I think this could be a two wau discussion. Do you go for a light stiff frame which should stop vibration getting to your speakers because its "stiff" or do you go for heavy mass and hope to stop vibration that way. I've gone the heavy mass route. My speakers weigh 56kg each and they stand on stand which weigh 15kg each, so quite a weight, and they sound very very good. Would love to try a light weight "stiff" speaker stand but I need all my wonga for a new phono stage. :eek:

[walpurgis]

I use decorative crushed stone chips from garden centres, it works very well as the stones interlock against each other due to the surface roughness, but this would not meet your brief for lightness unfortunately.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Guys, have a look at post #55 on this thread http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18351&page=6, look at the links towards wikipedia regarding stiffness and harmonic vibration, this may give you some more ideas.
Happy reading :sofa:

[Welder]

I must confess, I get rather confuzzled when people start talking about light stiffness and speaker stands.
Are we talking material stiffness here, or structural stiffness.:scratch:
It often seems to divide into two camps light and stiff, or heavy and.....?
Afaik there is nothing to prevent a heavy stand being of the same stiffness as a lighter stand both in materials used and structure.
Surely how the stand supports the enclosure is of more importance; a plate top for example in full contact with the enclosures base having a differing effect to that of a stand that supports the enclosure at the edges.

[Alex_UK]

Surely how the stand supports the enclosure is of more importance; a plate top for example in full contact with the enclosures base having a differing effect to that of a stand that supports the enclosure at the edges.

Spot on - which is why the Something Solid ones seem to work well with the Harbeth's construction, being supported by 4 pads (carbon fibre I think) - one at each corner, and allows the cabinet to flex, in line with the BBC design principals I believe.

[overtsi]

I'm with Howard on this one. After speaking to Noel, I used HDPE (High Density Polyethelene) pellets. Sold on e-bay for stuffing dolls or making camera or shooting rests. Similar material to the Skylan legs and it provides damping and a little weight for stability without adding the 'bloat' which sand can sometimes give. Less messy than kitty-litter.
I use 'Q-Bricks', lift the speakers away from the to-plate
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu32/sjoverton/IMG_0898.jpg
Sorry about the picture size.

[DSJR]

Alex beat me to it - grrrrr :lol:

The Something Solid stands really do sort the bass of smaller Harbeths out so well. Older examples of the Compact 7 could sound rather "thuddy" and "tubby" in the bass if wrongly mounted, something the slightly smaller M30 doesn't do - and the SHL5 has an extra octave or so which breathes better (too well if the room and amp are wrong). Using the XF stands on these, the bass became much better integrated, the tubbiness all but disappearing (the latest Compact 7's have internal tweaks which improve it further).

I should add that this recommendation is based on years of selling (and in the past, owning) Mark Orr's products...

Here's the new XF stand courtesy of Deco Audio in Aylesbury -

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/d62fab45.jpg

I was going to add a pic of the larger stands Something Solid do for Harbeths - hifi dave's demo set for the resident SHL5's amongst others, but photobucket won't play ball for some reason :(

[Welder]

Those Harbeth stands look a bit of a mess imo Dave.

Anyway, for lightweight stands, if you think the light weight bit makes a difference to the sound, filling the uprights and cross-members with high density expanding foam like the stuff used by plumbers should help to stop them resonating.

[hifi_dave]

HMmmmm, I think this could be a two wau discussion. Do you go for a light stiff frame which should stop vibration getting to your speakers because its "stiff" or do you go for heavy mass and hope to stop vibration that way. I've gone the heavy mass route. My speakers weigh 56kg each and they stand on stand which weigh 15kg each, so quite a weight, and they sound very very good. Would love to try a light weight "stiff" speaker stand but I need all my wonga for a new phono stage. :eek:

I believe what we are trying to achieve is to keep the speaker from moving around and to allow the vibrations/energy to escape from the speaker cabinet and away via the stand. The Something Solids do this very well and because of the construction, do not store this energy.

It is horses for courses though and your ATC's sound good on heavy stands but IMO, the Harbeth speakers prefer a stand like the SS and not mass loaded. As Alex says, the open frame allows the thin wall cabinets to do their thing and at the same time dissipating the vibrations quickly.

[walpurgis]

Just a thought. Would using expanding foam cavity filler meet the lightness requirement? It would provide some damping at least. You'd have a bit of a job getting it out if you changed your mind though.

[Welder]

I can't see a few cubic centimeters of expanded foam adding much weight. :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

I think the foam would add structural rigidity and stiffness to the stands which both help to stifle vibration getting into your kit.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Out of interest I used kiln dried sand which improved my ate speakers no end

[Tarzan]

Thanks for the replies chaps! l had the Something Solid stand a while ago for the Harbs, but sold them due to their looks and brought the Skylans,l think l will try the 1/4 loading with Kitty Litter, suggested by Hifi Dave and the HDPE Pellets, suggested by overtsi, definately no expanding foam:lol: Still appreciated though, will report back after testing:)

[bobbasrah]

Thanks for the replies chaps! l had the Something Solid stand a while ago for the Harbs, but sold them due to their looks and brought the Skylans,l think l will try the 1/4 loading with Kitty Litter, suggested by Hifi Dave and the HDPE Pellets, suggested by overtsi, definately no expanding foam:lol: Still appreciated though, will report back after testing:)

If you can get access to the top of the columns,you could always push in some pipe insulation, then experment with filling the remaining space.........

[Tarzan]

If you can get access to the top of the columns,you could always push in some pipe insulation, then experment with filling the remaining space.........

Negative, columns around 4" square, with access holes at the top plate to them about 1" wide, so it looks like a small amount of Kitty Litter at the moment.

[wiicrackpot]

Evening chaps, can anybody recommend a speaker filler, that damps the stand yet ( this is the bit that is doing my head in) that weighs next to nothing- l mean as in weighing as little as possible, the reason l ask is my Skylans were mass loaded with sand and l thought l would try them with either kitty litter or rice(really) as recommended by Skylan themselves, so l emptied the stands and listened to them empty and to my suprise, me Harbeths sound quality took a large step forward, so l am thinking something very light but l cannot think:scratch: so , it is over to you.
Came to this thread late and have posted this ages ago on another forum, i made a pair of stands from Ikea Oddvar stools when i owned SHL5's (stained to match Tiger Ebony),
when i made mine's i used wood glue on all the dowels and joints that hold it together and also drove extra wood screws at an angle where the cross members to brace the legs,
used without the top plate i ended up with a very stiff but very light stand that's perfect for the Harbs, measurements were 16.5' inches tall and 12' inches square,
i cut super boucey balls in half and place in all 4 corners to sit the speakers, kid you not, damping was so good minimal vibration got through and lets the speaker cabinets work as it should,
if you want to tune the stands, buy some self adhesive lead balancing weights for motor bikes to stick on the inside of the legs,
totally unseen and reversible, i am keeping mine incase i ever re-unite with a pair of my most loved speakers. :(

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/77996709/

wii.

[Effem]

A good tip when filling a stand column with sand or litter is to pour it into a bin liner within the column and tie a not in the top because most of the "kiln dried" sand I have come across is more often than not damp and laced with salt which rusts/corrodes away the metal over time. Cat litter too absorbs moisture and clumps together, so a good tight knot in the top of the liner prevents that and makes removal later a doddle.